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***ALCS*** Tampa Bay Rays v. Boston Red Sox (1 Viewer)

Tom Servo said:
culdeus said:
I'm happy for the Devil Rays, but saddened I'll have to watch games played in that warehouse they call a stadium. There's something godly about seeing a game in HD at Fenway. I could watch senior slow pitch softball played there for hours. Trop makes my eyes bleed. It even sounds bad in there over my stereo.
Seriously? I'm no fan of the Trop but Fenway = arena baseball.
Care to unpack this a little?Open air stadium

Lowest/Intimate seating capacity in Majors

Closest proximity of fans to players

Natural Grass / Dirt playing surface

Interesting Park Dimensions

Passionate Fanbase - sold out every night

Tremendous Venue HIstory

Great pre/postgame atmosphere outside the stadium

Fenway is as far as you can get from the sterile cookie cutter astrodome clones as you can get.

GDB Playing baseball on a carpet under Florescent lighting.
If you have the prototypical 1918 body. I like Fenway....but after the first time I went....I had to visit a chiropractor....the second time I almost got a chick pregnant who sat in the row in front of me and the third time I went numb from the neck down for 90 minutes after contorting my body to see homeplate. It's not a nice place for your average 6'2", 210 lb. American.
 
Tom Servo said:
culdeus said:
I'm happy for the Devil Rays, but saddened I'll have to watch games played in that warehouse they call a stadium. There's something godly about seeing a game in HD at Fenway. I could watch senior slow pitch softball played there for hours. Trop makes my eyes bleed. It even sounds bad in there over my stereo.
Seriously? I'm no fan of the Trop but Fenway = arena baseball.
Care to unpack this a little?Open air stadium

Lowest/Intimate seating capacity in Majors

Closest proximity of fans to players

Natural Grass / Dirt playing surface

Interesting Park Dimensions

Passionate Fanbase - sold out every night

Tremendous Venue HIstory

Great pre/postgame atmosphere outside the stadium

Fenway is as far as you can get from the sterile cookie cutter astrodome clones as you can get.

GDB Playing baseball on a carpet under Florescent lighting.
If you have the prototypical 1918 body. I like Fenway....but after the first time I went....I had to visit a chiropractor....the second time I almost got a chick pregnant who sat in the row in front of me and the third time I went numb from the neck down for 90 minutes after contorting my body to see homeplate. It's not a nice place for your average 6'2", 210 lb. American.
So what does that have to do with Arena baseball. Completely unrelated points. Yes the seats are small.... but that has nothing to do with the meaning of Arena Baseball (cookie cutter stadiums with sterile atmosphere often played indoors on carpet in front of lackluster fan bases).

 
I think he meant arena baseball because of the small yard and the green monster. I've heard others say that.

 
It's an interesting argument. If you really wanted to get into semantics you could say the Angels took their foot off the gas weeks ago, leading to a little less focus and wins, but who cares. They were a very good team this year...but they pretty much collapsed in the LDS.

Back to the series...rumor is Kaz may get Game 1 and Sheilds 2, as then Kaz would get 5 in Boston (where he's been very good) and Shields 6 in St.Pete, where he's also very good.

It makes sense to me.
Common sense points to this. That said they've not run away with the division in 04 and 07 when the Sox stomped them.... but then again they were not nearly as good a team as they were this year.

Regardless...

WHY ARE WE DEBATING SOX/ANGELS in the SOX/RAYS thread? :o

 
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I think he meant arena baseball because of the small yard and the green monster. I've heard others say that.
Yeah but that arguement is silly. THe monster robs almost as many HRs as it gives up. Look at hte Park Factors... IIRC Fenway is actually a slight Negative for HRs due to the cavernous CF, pretty deep RF (except down the line). Just looked it up. Fenway is actually ranked 26th of 30 parks with regards to HRs. (0.850) and only a slight uptick in Runs (1.07). The only thing Fenway enhances is doubles for righties. I've always viewed arena baseball as cookie cutter sterile stadiums with no personality. Difference in opinion I suppose :lmao:Either way... Rays no longer have all the characteristics (they now have a ravenous fanbase :o )
 
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Interesting debate for the Sox on who will be 4th starter. Game will be played in Fenway. Wake to me is the better starter, but with the Rays speed they could run all over him. Plus Byrd is better suited for relief than Wake

 
I would think the Sox would rather have Beckett pitch indoors where it's warm than on a cold Boston night. I would guess the Sox will go:

1 Dice-K

2 Beckett

3 Lester

4 Byrd

5 Dice-K

6 Beckett

7 Lester

I don't like making Lester wait, but you can't really throw him out there in Game 1 and as I mentioned Beckett would benefit from a controlled environment weather wise.

 
Not sure how you can call sonny one of the biggest "Sox haters" on the board....
Call it guilt by association. SLBD has been one of the biggest dooshes to me on this board for years so whenever I see him post something asinine to me or anyone else his ignorance is magnified.
Don't take this the wrong way, but Sonny is about a gazillion times better a poster than you. You pretty much sum up the Sox fan stereotype, all in one neat little package.
your bias is noted (for the 876th time), congrats.
 
I would think the Sox would rather have Beckett pitch indoors where it's warm than on a cold Boston night. I would guess the Sox will go:1 Dice-K2 Beckett3 Lester4 Byrd5 Dice-K6 Beckett7 LesterI don't like making Lester wait, but you can't really throw him out there in Game 1 and as I mentioned Beckett would benefit from a controlled environment weather wise.
Swap in Wake for Byrd and you nailed it.
 
Just announced. Sox going:

Dice

Beckett

Lester

Wakefield

Dice

Beckett

Lester

I guess there was no way around it, but I think the Rays are getting a HUGE break getting the Sox best two guys 3 times at home out of a potential 4 games. Big help to offset Beckett and Lester, as the Rays have their homefield advantage in those games.

Also, Wakefield in game four is a positive, especially since that's in Fenway. Again, offsetting an advantage. Rays should run all over him.

 
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Game 1: Daisuke Matsuzaka

Game 2: Josh Beckett

Game 3: Jon Lester

Game 4: Tim Wakefield

Game 5: Matsuzaka

Game 6: Beckett

Game 7: Lester

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/reds...as/extra_bases/
Makes sense to me. In addition to the reasons Francona gives I'd think having Dice and Wake go back to back in 3 & 4 was nixed partly because of what it could do to their bullpen on consecutive days. At least there's a day between 4 &5 to rest a potentially taxed pen.
 
I'm happy for the Devil Rays, but saddened I'll have to watch games played in that warehouse they call a stadium. There's something godly about seeing a game in HD at Fenway. I could watch senior slow pitch softball played there for hours. Trop makes my eyes bleed. It even sounds bad in there over my stereo.
Seriously? I'm no fan of the Trop but Fenway = arena baseball.
Care to unpack this a little?Open air stadium

Lowest/Intimate seating capacity in Majors

Closest proximity of fans to players

Natural Grass / Dirt playing surface

Interesting Park Dimensions

Passionate Fanbase - sold out every night

Tremendous Venue HIstory

Great pre/postgame atmosphere outside the stadium

Fenway is as far as you can get from the sterile cookie cutter astrodome clones as you can get.

GDB Playing baseball on a carpet under Florescent lighting.
If you have the prototypical 1918 body. I like Fenway....but after the first time I went....I had to visit a chiropractor....the second time I almost got a chick pregnant who sat in the row in front of me and the third time I went numb from the neck down for 90 minutes after contorting my body to see homeplate. It's not a nice place for your average 6'2", 210 lb. American.
So what does that have to do with Arena baseball. Completely unrelated points. Yes the seats are small.... but that has nothing to do with the meaning of Arena Baseball (cookie cutter stadiums with sterile atmosphere often played indoors on carpet in front of lackluster fan bases).
You guys are missing the point. I'm talking about the TV watching experience. The seats in my house are plenty comfortable. I'm not sure of a better looking stadium in HD than Fenway and a worse one than the Trop. Maybe there's a NL stadium I never watch out there, but I'm not aware of it.
 
You guys are missing the point. I'm talking about the TV watching experience. The seats in my house are plenty comfortable. I'm not sure of a better looking stadium in HD than Fenway and a worse one than the Trop. Maybe there's a NL stadium I never watch out there, but I'm not aware of it.
I got your point. I was addressing the other comment. It's not all about you woz. :lmao:That said...agreed 100% that Fenway is gorgeous on HD. Something about those green walls....
 
Thank God Maddon didn't have Sonnastine in Games 1-3... that guy has dominated the lineup. Frankly I have no idea what he is thinking, but big boost for the Sox

 
The 3 biggest issues the Rays have had the last 6 months IMO:

1) Lack of health

2) An especially lacking Percival leading the pen

3) Upton's bat

Well...now...

1) They are as healthy as they've been since Opening Day

2) Percy is out and Balfour is dominating

3) BJ's bat is back, popping like it hasn't since April

The Sox have the experience, but the Rays are peaking.

Rays in 6.

 
Just looking at the LCS schedule, and it appears game 4 (Sonny's game) is on Tuesday. Game 7 would be on Sunday, which would give him four days rest if Maddon wanted to go that route instead of Garza (who would be rested as well).

I imagine Joe will look at their prior LCS and Boston starts and make his decision on Friday before that game. Joe also alluded today to using Sonny Friday if he needed him.

So in other words, you may get a handful of him.

 
Capella said:
You could say the same thing for holding your best pitcher for a game 7 that may never happen. :goodposting:
Says something about his health, no?
Not likely...moreso that his inning total is career high so they are giving him extra rest (after riding him a bit in the ALDS)Also, Sox tend to take look at the big picture more than other teams IMO, ie goal is World Series, not AL Pennant. If they judge that he will be more effective in the WS given a bit of extra rest that might sway themLast angle is that Sox see this going 6 or 7 games...they know it won't be an easy series, so assuming it goes 6 or 7 not bad to have Beckett / Lester in those pivotal games
 
Since you're talking about the regular season here, you mean to tell us that the Red Sox were better than the Angels?
I think the Red Sox were the better team, regardless of record. They played more meaningful games, they were pushed all year. The one thing in your favor is the Angels head to head regular season record vs the Sox. All I can do in that case is point to postseason records because that's what matters.

In the end, the Angels confirmed what I thought, they were the third best team in the A.L.
The only part that is up for debate is the regular season thing. So let's start, and stop, there.You have one team that won 100 games, 5 more than another. That same team beat the team is question 8 out of 9 games. That is as lopsided as it gets in baseball.

Then someone's defense of Boston turned to them being from a tougher division. Fine. Angels were 30 - 16 against that division, better than any other team, and much better than Boston fared, so that argument is tough for me to buy as well.

So I'm just not sure how you can say Boston was a better team than the Angels in the REGULAR SEASON.
:thumbup:
 
Not that I wanna go back to it, but at least prove your point, HellToupee. I've never claimed to be the expert you are, enlighten me.
You play to win the world series. Who gives a crap if you go 162-0 and don't win the WS. I'm sure Angel fans are really comforted knowing they had the better regular season. Oh and the better team advanced .
 
Not that I wanna go back to it, but at least prove your point, HellToupee. I've never claimed to be the expert you are, enlighten me.
You play to win the world series. Who gives a crap if you go 162-0 and don't win the WS. I'm sure Angel fans are really comforted knowing they had the better regular season. Oh and the better team advanced .
So you didn't read the thread, did you Herm? Just skimmed some stuff and got all giddy. If you had, you'd know what you're talking/laughing about has zero to do with the discussion. What's more, I didn't bring it up to begin with. Even in my reply you quoted, you'll see my first comment as: "Since you're talking about the regular season here". Nice reading comprehension. :boxing:

 
Congrats to the Rays! What a turnaround after last year.

I'm picking the Red Sox in 6, but I am rooting for the Rays to make the Series.

 
Open air stadium - Yep, must be nice not to have to worry about rain every freaking day in the summerLowest/Intimate seating capacity in Majors Built 100 yrs ago when nobody went to baseball games and now there is no room to expand

Closest proximity of fans to players Love this, but it needs to be consistent in baseball

Natural Grass / Dirt playing surface Should be required for all outdoor stadiums

Interesting Park Dimensions Determined by neighborhood rather than some genius

Passionate Fanbase - sold out every night Of course, now that they're winning. Up until 6-7 yrs ago, tickets were never a problem

Tremendous Venue HIstory I love the obstructed views with the poles and hitting my head in the walkways

Great pre/postgame atmosphere outside the stadium No doubt

Fenway is as far as you can get from the sterile cookie cutter astrodome clones as you can get. Because it was built 100 yrs ago when owners built their own yards. Now, it is stuck to the taxpayers.

GDB Playing baseball on a carpet under Florescent lighting. TB needs a convertible dome. Building an outdoor only stadium in Tampa Bay is lunacy with the summer weather. Nobody in their right mind is coming to a game with 92 degrees at first pitch with 99% humidity.

The Trop was built 7 years before the Rays came into existence. Convertible domes were not an option then as everyone saw how badly Stadium Olympique failed

 
gump said:
The 3 biggest issues the Rays have had the last 6 months IMO:

1) Lack of health

2) An especially lacking Percival leading the pen

3) Upton's bat

Well...now...

1) They are as healthy as they've been since Opening Day

2) Percy is out and Balfour is dominating

3) BJ's bat is back, popping like it hasn't since April

The Sox have the experience, but the Rays are peaking.

Rays in 6.
Peaking? It's baseball, they are 1 good starting pitcher from being down 1 - 0.

You don't peak in baseball. You're only as good as your starting pitcher.

 
gump said:
The 3 biggest issues the Rays have had the last 6 months IMO:

1) Lack of health

2) An especially lacking Percival leading the pen

3) Upton's bat

Well...now...

1) They are as healthy as they've been since Opening Day

2) Percy is out and Balfour is dominating

3) BJ's bat is back, popping like it hasn't since April

The Sox have the experience, but the Rays are peaking.

Rays in 6.
Peaking? It's baseball, they are 1 good starting pitcher from being down 1 - 0.

You don't peak in baseball. You're only as good as your starting pitcher.
Everyone is healthy. Offense is at it's best. Confidence at it's highest.That puts the team at a higher overall playing level than any other time this year.

 
Open air stadium - Yep, must be nice not to have to worry about rain every freaking day in the summerLowest/Intimate seating capacity in Majors Built 100 yrs ago when nobody went to baseball games and now there is no room to expand

Closest proximity of fans to players Love this, but it needs to be consistent in baseball

Natural Grass / Dirt playing surface Should be required for all outdoor stadiums

Interesting Park Dimensions Determined by neighborhood rather than some genius

Passionate Fanbase - sold out every night Of course, now that they're winning. Up until 6-7 yrs ago, tickets were never a problem

Tremendous Venue HIstory I love the obstructed views with the poles and hitting my head in the walkways

Great pre/postgame atmosphere outside the stadium No doubt

Fenway is as far as you can get from the sterile cookie cutter astrodome clones as you can get. Because it was built 100 yrs ago when owners built their own yards. Now, it is stuck to the taxpayers.

GDB Playing baseball on a carpet under Florescent lighting. TB needs a convertible dome. Building an outdoor only stadium in Tampa Bay is lunacy with the summer weather. Nobody in their right mind is coming to a game with 92 degrees at first pitch with 99% humidity.

The Trop was built 7 years before the Rays came into existence. Convertible domes were not an option then as everyone saw how badly Stadium Olympique failed
Just FYI the first list wasn't an attack on rays' stadium.. it was just listing what I consider to be the positives of fenway. Regardless of why it's shaped how it is... or why it's smaller. I'm glad it is. There's really not a bad seat in the house (except for those obstructed seats of course :lmao: ). Sure you get a cramp in your neck in GS 5+ in right field because you're facing the monster.... but you're practically on top of the fielders and can still see pretty well. the view from the monster is awesome. Even the RF roof deck seats are kinda fun. Fenway is far from perfect, but I liken a good ballpark to a good BBQjoint. You don't want it sterile and prefect. I love the personality of the old parks. THAT SAID:

Rays have built a fantastic core and SHOULD have little problem getting funding for a convertible stadium now. HOpefully the fan base sticks and you guys can pack it out and build some positive lasting momentum for the franchise. I'm down in FLA quite a bit throughout the year and would love to catch some games :rolleyes:

 
gump said:
The 3 biggest issues the Rays have had the last 6 months IMO:

1) Lack of health

2) An especially lacking Percival leading the pen

3) Upton's bat

Well...now...

1) They are as healthy as they've been since Opening Day

2) Percy is out and Balfour is dominating

3) BJ's bat is back, popping like it hasn't since April

The Sox have the experience, but the Rays are peaking.

Rays in 6.
Peaking? It's baseball, they are 1 good starting pitcher from being down 1 - 0.

You don't peak in baseball. You're only as good as your starting pitcher.
Everyone is healthy. Offense is at it's best. Confidence at it's highest.That puts the team at a higher overall playing level than any other time this year.
I tend to agree here. Teams do tend to go on rushes and "peak". Not sure why or how... but it definitely happens. I agree that the Rays are looking very strong..hence why I picked them in 6. Boston is NOT peaking right now:

PROS: Ellsbury, Bay, Lowrie are hitting well. Lester, Papelbon looking dominant. Masterson strong.

CONS: Lowell, Beckett, Drew, Papi are all hurting. Pedroia slumping.

If Pedroia/Youk go back to MVP form... if Beckett Reverts to an ace.... If Papi gets back even some of his power... then the Sox are the favorites. Until that happens though, Rays are the better team.

 
gump said:
The 3 biggest issues the Rays have had the last 6 months IMO:

1) Lack of health

2) An especially lacking Percival leading the pen

3) Upton's bat

Well...now...

1) They are as healthy as they've been since Opening Day

2) Percy is out and Balfour is dominating

3) BJ's bat is back, popping like it hasn't since April

The Sox have the experience, but the Rays are peaking.

Rays in 6.
Peaking? It's baseball, they are 1 good starting pitcher from being down 1 - 0.

You don't peak in baseball. You're only as good as your starting pitcher.
Everyone is healthy. Offense is at it's best. Confidence at it's highest.That puts the team at a higher overall playing level than any other time this year.
If Pedroia/Youk go back to MVP form... if Beckett Reverts to an ace.... If Papi gets back even some of his power... then the Sox are the favorites. Until that happens though, Rays are the better team.
Uh huh. Because of course you can assume all the Rays will be in their regular season forms? :goodposting:
 
gump said:
The 3 biggest issues the Rays have had the last 6 months IMO:

1) Lack of health

2) An especially lacking Percival leading the pen

3) Upton's bat

Well...now...

1) They are as healthy as they've been since Opening Day

2) Percy is out and Balfour is dominating

3) BJ's bat is back, popping like it hasn't since April

The Sox have the experience, but the Rays are peaking.

Rays in 6.
Peaking? It's baseball, they are 1 good starting pitcher from being down 1 - 0.

You don't peak in baseball. You're only as good as your starting pitcher.
Everyone is healthy. Offense is at it's best. Confidence at it's highest.That puts the team at a higher overall playing level than any other time this year.
I tend to agree here. Teams do tend to go on rushes and "peak". Not sure why or how... but it definitely happens. I agree that the Rays are looking very strong..hence why I picked them in 6. Boston is NOT peaking right now:

PROS: Ellsbury, Bay, Lowrie are hitting well. Lester, Papelbon looking dominant. Masterson strong.

CONS: Lowell, Beckett, Drew, Papi are all hurting. Pedroia slumping.

If Pedroia/Youk go back to MVP form... if Beckett Reverts to an ace.... If Papi gets back even some of his power... then the Sox are the favorites. Until that happens though, Rays are the better team.
FWIW Sox brass has stated they think Beckett's problems have more to do with rust and less to do with his oblique. I think even if just he comes back to form and accepting the other injuries on your list that bumps the Sox into a strong position to win this, particularly if Beckett has two strong showings. His contributions far out weight the other 3 hurt players you cite.
 
Capella said:
You could say the same thing for holding your best pitcher for a game 7 that may never happen. :scared:
Think of it this way - If the Sox are down 3-1, they'll have to get wins from Beckett, Dice-K and Lester in order to advance. At that point, I'd rather have all 3 on regular rest - It really doesn't matter if Lester pitches Game 5, 6 or 7 since you still have to get 2 more wins regardless. It's the right move IMO.
 
Postseason inexperience is going to kick in. Sox in 5.

Sorry Rays fans. It was a helluva run though :tinfoilhat:

 
Why are you apologizing, Jamless? Nothing has happened yet. :rolleyes:
How am I expected to focus at work tomorrow with this game happening?Cappy - I'll be leaving the office at 3 to drive over so I should be at Ferg's no later than 5:30 depending on how crappy the traffic is getting through Malfunction Junction.
 
FWIW Sox brass has stated they think Beckett's problems have more to do with rust and less to do with his oblique.
yeah and shilling just needed to shake off some rust too. I don't trust Sox brass with this sorta stuff. I hope I'm wrong and he returns to form but he looked bad out there.
 
I really don't understand why the Sox are favored in this series. Tampa was the better team almost all season long, they're healthy, have good pitching, good hitting, and excellent defense, not to mention home field advantage. Maybe if Ortiz was himself, Lowell wasn't hurt, and Beckett was in top form, then they might be slight favorites. I guess they have to rely on playoff inexperience for an edge? I dunno.

 

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