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All 32 NFL team rosters ranked 1-32 going into training camp as says one guy at a website, let's see what the Shark Pool has to say (1 Viewer)

Ministry of Pain

Footballguy
Full article

1. Tampa Bay

2. Kansas City

3. Cleveland

4. Los Angeles Rams...really?

5. Buffalo

6. Baltimore

7. Green Bay

8. WFT, this one surprised me

9. Pittsburgh

10. Tennessee 

11. Arizona

12. Dallas

13. Denver

14. Indy

15. Miami 

30. New York Jets

31. Detroit Lions

32. Houston Texans 

 

travdogg

Footballguy
Ministry of Pain said:
Full article

1. Tampa Bay

2. Kansas City

3. Cleveland

4. Los Angeles Rams...really?

5. Buffalo

6. Baltimore

7. Green Bay

8. WFT, this one surprised me

9. Pittsburgh

10. Tennessee 

11. Arizona

12. Dallas

13. Denver

14. Indy

15. Miami 

30. New York Jets

31. Detroit Lions

32. Houston Texans 
Call me crazy, but I'd actually be pretty surprised if Detroit was a bottom 3 team. They have a solid DL, and a potentially excellent OL. They strike me as that annoying team that ends up being a lot more competitive than people think, like Carolina was last year. 

Speaking of Carolina, I'd call 25th a little high for them. But I'm of the opinion that Sam Darnold is awful and a downgrade from Teddy. Also really think that OL is going to be rough and only exacerbate Darnold's problems, where as somebody like Goff will greatly benefit from his OL. 

The Vikings at 20 stands out to me a ton. I think that is a strong team, and are comfortably in my top-10. I very much believe the defensive issues last season were an injury induced fluke, they look as good or better at every single position than a year ago. I'd bet on the Vikings making it to the divisional round. 

Seattle at 18 feels low too. I think they are the best team in the NFC West, though I think that division is likely going to suffer from fatigue from beating up each other. I'd be surprised if an NFC West team was in the NFC Championship game. I think Seattle gets a lot more out of Jamal Adams this year, and the OL looks improved, and if Metcalf takes off, look out.

Miami at 15 feels high to me. I think they were pretty fluky last season, with a lot of defensive takeaways, that history has shown varies wildly year to year. I'd be surprised if they finished ahead of the Patriots again this year.

I like Dallas more than 12th I guess. I think they are going to win the NFC East, and likely would have by 3-4 games last year if Dak hadn't gone down. The defense will likely be their undoing in the playoffs, but this has the looks of the NFL's best offense to me, especially if Lamb breaks out.

Pittsburgh at 9 is too high for me. I don't think they are a playoff team. Worst OL in the NFL, a possibly(probably) washed up QB, and some issues at CB, potentially huge ones of Haden starts to show his age. This is a 8-8 looking team to me. Sorry, 9-8.

I agree the Rams at 4 is nuts. I actually don't think they are even necessarily a playoff team. They have no depth except at WR, and its no lock that Stafford is a huge upgrade from Goff, though he should at least be a slight one. The defense is a lock to take a step back, perhaps(probably) a major one, add in a tough division and its not hard to see them being only a 9 or 10 win team. 

I love seeing the Browns in the top-3. I truly believe if they had made that stop on 4th down against KC, they would have beaten Buffalo in the AFC Title game last year, and likely given Tampa a tougher game in the Super Bowl as well. 

So all in all, pretty decent rankings in my opinion. I'm in about 75% agreement. 

 
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wgoldsph

Footballguy
Really like @travdogg
's write up.  I also hate that my phone always makes a new paragraph after a name and I can't seem to fix it.

Anywho my thoughts -

Houston should go 0-17.  The fans should boycott games.  Everything about the ownership is terrible.

Panthers - Darnold is bad at football.

Detroit - Hate hate hate the coaching, but it's not like that could be worse than fat pat. Goff is a qb who goes as far as his line takes him, and the line here is pretty good.  Unfortunately he's not throwing to anyone and the defense is still awful.

Jets - I don't know how they could be worse than last year so that's a plus.  Zach Wilson was the 4th best qb in the draft though and I see them going back to the drawing board again in two years.

Eagles - I don't know if the eagles themselves are in on this season.  They seem willing to let Hurts lose enough to put in Flacco (and we all saw how bad that was with the Jets), but there's always the chance the indy coaches know what they're doing. 

Falcons/Jags/Bengals - teams with no defense.   Would probably have Bengals last on the list of these three and falcons first because of coaching.

Raiders - I don't know where to rank them really.  Feels like a team that should be better by now, but they just aren't.  That 50 year Gruden contract sure was a great idea wasn't it?

Cardinals - they won't win until Kliff is gone.  He's wasting Murray's prime years.

Giants - their defense should keep them in games long after their terrible qb play should have int and fumbled his way out of them.

Chargers/Seahawks/49ers - how are they all ranked so low?  I'd take any of these guys away over the Broncos or Cardinals easily.

Bears - They jump ten spots the moment Fields becomes the starting qb.  They lose five before that. And someone slap Nagy for me.

Greenbay - How long can the Rodgers highwire act go on?  I feel like I count them out every year only for them to still end up going 12-4, but hey can't hurt to count them out again.

Steelers - I'm calling it right now, they're winning less than 6 games this year.  Great skill players don't mean anything when your qb is so cooked he's charred through.

Rams - you know what?  Rams might not be number 3 good, but if you move them behind Baltimore to number 7, I can see it.  Great defense, great coach, quality skill players and line, I'm in.

Bucs - I know Tampa got the whole band back together, but when lead singer of the band was drafted before the new rookie class was born isn't that cause for some slippage?  Give me KC at the top and the Bills behind them, then we can talk about old man Brady running it back again.

Went longer than I expected it too, but there's nothing good on TV.

 

BobbyLayne

Footballguy
Health is often a huge part of a team going from bottom third to upper half. It’s pretty easy to see the Chargers doing well if Herbert picks up the new offense. Huge upgrade at C (who will take responsibility of the Mike point & blocking scheme - which Justin was handling as a rookie but it’s one less thing to read presnap) and Slater is on par with Sewell. Just need a change in luck with defensive injuries.

Detroit - we just want to see some fight. Their WR room Is the worst in the league by far. The linebacking corps Was awful. Couldn’t generate pressure. Zero interceptions zero FF zero recovered and oh worst coverage per PFF. Switching to 3-4 and the D line s/b better, they have 4 cover CBs and the worst S group anywhere. It’s gonna be a long year BUT directionally and culturally they have already made tremendous strides. Full rebuild.

 

smbkrypt24

Footballguy
Didn't want to look at anyone else's comments so I could not be swayed.

My biggest takeaways were laughing at Denver at 13 and Cleveland at 3, Tennessee slightly high, WFT slightly high but I do like them a lot.  I initially was going to say Miami is too high, but I really like there team besides QB, so mediocre seems about right.

 

Wise Old Owl

Footballguy
Is KC roster that good? I mean its a great team but is it the top to bottom 2nd best roster in football? Behind Hill and Kelce the skill positions are not very deep. They just rebuilt the whole offensive line and I think it's too early to say they fixed it. The defense was good but never top tier. BAL, CLE, DEN, PIT, DEN, IND, MIA all probably have better defenses and that's just the AFC. Yeah KC will win a ton of games and are SB contenders because of Mahomes and coaching. They do have some elite players in Kelce, Hill and maybe a few others but I don't think talentwise they have a top 5 roster overall. 

 

rockaction

Footballguy
Is KC roster that good? I mean its a great team but is it the top to bottom 2nd best roster in football? Behind Hill and Kelce the skill positions are not very deep. They just rebuilt the whole offensive line and I think it's too early to say they fixed it. The defense was good but never top tier. BAL, CLE, DEN, PIT, DEN, IND, MIA all probably have better defenses and that's just the AFC. Yeah KC will win a ton of games and are SB contenders because of Mahomes and coaching. They do have some elite players in Kelce, Hill and maybe a few others but I don't think talentwise they have a top 5 roster overall. 
Their skill position players really drop off after Hill and Kelce. I actually expect CEH to get some serious run with their other options not being so great. Hardman was a waste of a pick, really, even with the Hill fiasco going on back then. You don't burn a pick because a guy is a good return man. You pick the truly great receiver instead. Bad job by KC, just like the pick of CEH was a poorly thought-out pick. Pringle, Hardman, the rookie Powell. None of them turn heads, really.

There's a lot to love about KC, but there are chinks in the offensive and defensive armor for sure. They're really sort of worthless without Mahomes there. But the same can be said of almost every team and their QB.

 
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wgoldsph

Footballguy
Their skill position players really drop off after Hill and Kelce. I actually expect CEH to get some serious run with their other options not being so great. Hardman was a waste of a pick, really, even with the Hill fiasco going on back then. You don't burn a pick because a guy is a good return man. You pick the truly great receiver instead. Bad job by KC, just like the pick of CEH was a poorly thought-out pick. Pringle, Hardman, the rookie Powell. None of them turn heads, really.

There's a lot to love about KC, but there are chinks in the offensive and defensive armor for sure. They're really sort of worthless without Mahomes there. But the same can be said of almost every team and their QB.
KC can never not be a top team with the Mahomes magic.  The guy had two tds bounce off his wrs helmets during the superbowl, one of which he threw while he was horizontal to the ground.  Replace him with a league average QB and the whole team probably drops into the late teens early twenties.

 

travdogg

Footballguy
Didn't want to look at anyone else's comments so I could not be swayed.

My biggest takeaways were laughing at Denver at 13 and Cleveland at 3, Tennessee slightly high, WFT slightly high but I do like them a lot.  I initially was going to say Miami is too high, but I really like there team besides QB, so mediocre seems about right.
Why laughing at Denver and Cleveland?

I think there is a real chance that Denver has the best defense in the NFL, and I don't see a single hole on the Browns roster...maybe run defense?

I kind of feel like Denver is the team everybody thinks/wants Pittsburgh to be. That's a playoff team if they have even a small improvement in QB play in my opinion.

Bucs - I know Tampa got the whole band back together, but when lead singer of the band was drafted before the new rookie class was born isn't that cause for some slippage?  Give me KC at the top and the Bills behind them, then we can talk about old man Brady running it back again.
I might be in the minority, but I'm not a big Buffalo fan. I think they are kind of overrated, and would be a wildcard team in any other AFC division. Their LOS play scares me on both sides. Mediocre OL, and rushing struggles, and a DL that has a lot of young talent/potential, but old man Hughes is really the only reliable guy at the moment. I also worry that Allen and the passing game regress a bit. I don't hate the Bills, I think they are a top-10 NFL team, but I can't shake the idea that everything went right last year, and 2020 is basically their ceiling. I think they would have lost to the Browns and Titans if they had run into them in the playoffs, they were fortunate in my opinion to draw Indy and Baltimore. Other than the Colts, I think all of those teams improved this offseason.

KC is interesting to me. They are probably the AFC favorites until proven otherwise, but I wouldn't want to bet on them. Very interesting how the schedule turned out, as they play Cleveland and Baltimore the 1st 2 games, and I think those are the 2 toughest matchups for KC as they can both shorten games, and keep Mahomes and co. off the field. 

One thing with Tampa is I think they are the most likely team in the NFL to go 6-0 in their division. They also have an unusually easy schedule for a Super Bowl champion. They have 4 games against what I would call playoff caliber teams. Between their division, and the AFC and NFC East, 12-13 wins feels like their floor. 

 

BobbyLayne

Footballguy
KC can never not be a top team with the Mahomes magic.  The guy had two tds bounce off his wrs helmets during the superbowl, one of which he threw while he was horizontal to the ground.  Replace him with a league average QB and the whole team probably drops into the late teens early twenties.
53 wins and four playoff appearances in the five seasons before Mahomes - with a replacement level QB. You can stack their top four management guys against any team in the league: the head coach & the GM have been there for 9 years, Spags is one of the best DC‘s around.

They were already a well run franchise and playoff team, then got superman. Would still be both without him.

 

smbkrypt24

Footballguy
Why laughing at Denver and Cleveland?

I think there is a real chance that Denver has the best defense in the NFL, and I don't see a single hole on the Browns roster...maybe run defense?

I kind of feel like Denver is the team everybody thinks/wants Pittsburgh to be. That's a playoff team if they have even a small improvement in QB play in my opinion.

I might be in the minority, but I'm not a big Buffalo fan. I think they are kind of overrated, and would be a wildcard team in any other AFC division. Their LOS play scares me on both sides. Mediocre OL, and rushing struggles, and a DL that has a lot of young talent/potential, but old man Hughes is really the only reliable guy at the moment. I also worry that Allen and the passing game regress a bit. I don't hate the Bills, I think they are a top-10 NFL team, but I can't shake the idea that everything went right last year, and 2020 is basically their ceiling. I think they would have lost to the Browns and Titans if they had run into them in the playoffs, they were fortunate in my opinion to draw Indy and Baltimore. Other than the Colts, I think all of those teams improved this offseason.

KC is interesting to me. They are probably the AFC favorites until proven otherwise, but I wouldn't want to bet on them. Very interesting how the schedule turned out, as they play Cleveland and Baltimore the 1st 2 games, and I think those are the 2 toughest matchups for KC as they can both shorten games, and keep Mahomes and co. off the field. 

One thing with Tampa is I think they are the most likely team in the NFL to go 6-0 in their division. They also have an unusually easy schedule for a Super Bowl champion. They have 4 games against what I would call playoff caliber teams. Between their division, and the AFC and NFC East, 12-13 wins feels like their floor. 
The Browns because come on, no way they will live up to 3rd best team in the league.  Mayfield isn't good enough to have them at 3rd best team.  

Denver also has a QB problem.  Its a glaring hole at QB.  Drew Lock is not the answer.  

 

wgoldsph

Footballguy
53 wins and four playoff appearances in the five seasons before Mahomes - with a replacement level QB. You can stack their top four management guys against any team in the league: the head coach & the GM have been there for 9 years, Spags is one of the best DC‘s around.

They were already a well run franchise and playoff team, then got superman. Would still be both without him.
You make a really good point.  I'd argue the defense in the Alex Smith era was better, but otherwise you're right.

 

BobbyLayne

Footballguy
You make a really good point.  I'd argue the defense in the Alex Smith era was better, but otherwise you're right.
Correction to my previous post; Brett Veach has been the GM for five seasons. John Dorsey was there the first four of the Reid era.

That surprise firing perfectly illustrates how competent the Hunt family is. Dorsey built the core of this dynasty. But he is not as process oriented as Reid is; they matched Reid’s style with the internal promotion. What other franchise does that after 4 straight winning seasons (three playoff appearances)?

Mahomes got smacked around in the Super Bowl. Fisher is washed. Rather than draft a tackle they trade their 1st for a pro bowler. Then draft a great C in the third. Then get a day 3 pick who’s going to be a swing G and only fell because of non-football health concerns (blood clots.) Oh, signed a few other OL, + 2 more who opted out last year.

$500M quarterback, sorry, weak O-line is not an option. Great Franchise.

 

TS Garp

Footballguy
Interesting rankings.  Cardinals and Steelers seem way too high, Chargers seem way too low. I'd actually move the Jets and Jaguars up a couple of notches. I'd move the Saints back.

 

wgoldsph

Footballguy
Interesting rankings.  Cardinals and Steelers seem way too high, Chargers seem way too low. I'd actually move the Jets and Jaguars up a couple of notches. I'd move the Saints back.
I was actually thinking about the saints earlier today, and what @travdogg
said in his post about TB rolling the division.  They were able to win every game with Bridgewater at qb two years ago, and went 3-1 with Hill.  Of course they played jv teams most of those weeks, but the team still managed to go 12-4 overall in 2020 despite Brees having no more arm strength on the back of excellent coaching and defense.  Their games will be tighter this year, and they did lose a lot between the ears when Brees retired, but I'm not sure they aren't a wildcard team based on defense and coaching alone no matter who starts at qb.

 

Biabreakable

Footballguy
I agree the Rams at 4 is nuts. I actually don't think they are even necessarily a playoff team. They have no depth except at WR, and its no lock that Stafford is a huge upgrade from Goff, though he should at least be a slight one. The defense is a lock to take a step back, perhaps(probably) a major one, add in a tough division and its not hard to see them being only a 9 or 10 win team. 
I agree with most of what you said and the Rams might be ranked too high at 4 but they drafted Van Jefferson in the 2nd round last season, they still have Kupp and Woods and they drafted Tutu Atwell in the 2nd round this season. I think Jefferson is a good player and that the Rams WR are better than what a lot of teams have.

 

Biabreakable

Footballguy
Is KC roster that good? I mean its a great team but is it the top to bottom 2nd best roster in football? Behind Hill and Kelce the skill positions are not very deep. They just rebuilt the whole offensive line and I think it's too early to say they fixed it. The defense was good but never top tier. BAL, CLE, DEN, PIT, DEN, IND, MIA all probably have better defenses and that's just the AFC. Yeah KC will win a ton of games and are SB contenders because of Mahomes and coaching. They do have some elite players in Kelce, Hill and maybe a few others but I don't think talentwise they have a top 5 roster overall. 
The thing about Andy Reid is his roots are in coaching offensive line. As a Vikings fan I was amazed they were playing Mike Remmers last year. He isn't good and having to start him is a move made out of desperation, but he likely played better for Reid than he did with his former two teams because of the coaching and Mahomes being mobile helps a lot as well.

I have confidence in Reid to improve that unit this season because he has done that so many times before.

 

travdogg

Footballguy
I agree with most of what you said and the Rams might be ranked too high at 4 but they drafted Van Jefferson in the 2nd round last season, they still have Kupp and Woods and they drafted Tutu Atwell in the 2nd round this season. I think Jefferson is a good player and that the Rams WR are better than what a lot of teams have.
I think you may have misread what I said about the Rams WR's. I said they have no depth, except at WR.

I was actually thinking about the saints earlier today, and what @travdogg
said in his post about TB rolling the division.  They were able to win every game with Bridgewater at qb two years ago, and went 3-1 with Hill.  Of course they played jv teams most of those weeks, but the team still managed to go 12-4 overall in 2020 despite Brees having no more arm strength on the back of excellent coaching and defense.  Their games will be tighter this year, and they did lose a lot between the ears when Brees retired, but I'm not sure they aren't a wildcard team based on defense and coaching alone no matter who starts at qb.
The defense lost a few starters though, and is an older group, that is now even older. Guys like Cameron Jordan, Malcolm Jenkins, and Demario Davis, are all on the wrong side of 30. I also worry that the QB play could go off the rails completely. Say what you will about Teddy, but I think he's better than what they currently have, at least in that offense. I think Payton will likely quickly tire of Winston's recklessness(I highly doubt that can be coached out of him) and will go back to Hill and hope to manufacture offense conservatively. 

You mentioned the JV teams they played without Brees last year, and that is really true. They went 3-1 against 2 teams picking in the top-6 and a team that had no QB on the team that week. In 2019 they did go 5-0 with Teddy, but that was pretty fluky, they beat only 1 good team in that stretch. 

I don't think the Saints will be awful by any means, they are clearly the #2 team in the South, but they feel like an 8-9 win team to me, and I don't see them as any threat to Tampa. I know they went 2-1 against them last year, but those games were with Brees, and before Tampa really gelled as a team. 

 

jon_mx

Footballguy
Call me crazy, but I'd actually be pretty surprised if Detroit was a bottom 3 team. They have a solid DL, and a potentially excellent OL. They strike me as that annoying team that ends up being a lot more competitive than people think, like Carolina was last year. 

Speaking of Carolina, I'd call 25th a little high for them. But I'm of the opinion that Sam Darnold is awful and a downgrade from Teddy. Also really think that OL is going to be rough and only exacerbate Darnold's problems, where as somebody like Goff will greatly benefit from his OL. 

The Vikings at 20 stands out to me a ton. I think that is a strong team, and are comfortably in my top-10. I very much believe the defensive issues last season were an injury induced fluke, they look as good or better at every single position than a year ago. I'd bet on the Vikings making it to the divisional round. 

Seattle at 18 feels low too. I think they are the best team in the NFC West, though I think that division is likely going to suffer from fatigue from beating up each other. I'd be surprised if an NFC West team was in the NFC Championship game. I think Seattle gets a lot more out of Jamal Adams this year, and the OL looks improved, and if Metcalf takes off, look out.

Miami at 15 feels high to me. I think they were pretty fluky last season, with a lot of defensive takeaways, that history has shown varies wildly year to year. I'd be surprised if they finished ahead of the Patriots again this year.

I like Dallas more than 12th I guess. I think they are going to win the NFC East, and likely would have by 3-4 games last year if Dak hadn't gone down. The defense will likely be their undoing in the playoffs, but this has the looks of the NFL's best offense to me, especially if Lamb breaks out.

Pittsburgh at 9 is too high for me. I don't think they are a playoff team. Worst OL in the NFL, a possibly(probably) washed up QB, and some issues at CB, potentially huge ones of Haden starts to show his age. This is a 8-8 looking team to me. Sorry, 9-8.

I agree the Rams at 4 is nuts. I actually don't think they are even necessarily a playoff team. They have no depth except at WR, and its no lock that Stafford is a huge upgrade from Goff, though he should at least be a slight one. The defense is a lock to take a step back, perhaps(probably) a major one, add in a tough division and its not hard to see them being only a 9 or 10 win team. 

I love seeing the Browns in the top-3. I truly believe if they had made that stop on 4th down against KC, they would have beaten Buffalo in the AFC Title game last year, and likely given Tampa a tougher game in the Super Bowl as well. 

So all in all, pretty decent rankings in my opinion. I'm in about 75% agreement. 
I agree about Detroit.  They will be far better than people think.  Their OL is top tier and their DL is also potentially very good.  Goff is not a bottom tier QB, but a mid-tier with upside.  Swift and Williams will be top 5 duo in terms of total yards from scrimmage.  They have good TEs with Hock and Fells.  Their WR will surprise people but Tyrell needs to stay healthy.  They have a lot of young talent on the corners.  Their coaching staff is stellar.  Their biggest problem is somehow they ended up with a tough schedule.  They have holes but they also have cap space.  They need some LB help and at safety. This will be a better team than every expert thinks.  I really liked their draft too.  They might have some surprise pieces there that step in sooner rather than later.  

 
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wgoldsph

Footballguy
I think you may have misread what I said about the Rams WR's. I said they have no depth, except at WR.

The defense lost a few starters though, and is an older group, that is now even older. Guys like Cameron Jordan, Malcolm Jenkins, and Demario Davis, are all on the wrong side of 30. I also worry that the QB play could go off the rails completely. Say what you will about Teddy, but I think he's better than what they currently have, at least in that offense. I think Payton will likely quickly tire of Winston's recklessness(I highly doubt that can be coached out of him) and will go back to Hill and hope to manufacture offense conservatively. 

You mentioned the JV teams they played without Brees last year, and that is really true. They went 3-1 against 2 teams picking in the top-6 and a team that had no QB on the team that week. In 2019 they did go 5-0 with Teddy, but that was pretty fluky, they beat only 1 good team in that stretch. 

I don't think the Saints will be awful by any means, they are clearly the #2 team in the South, but they feel like an 8-9 win team to me, and I don't see them as any threat to Tampa. I know they went 2-1 against them last year, but those games were with Brees, and before Tampa really gelled as a team. 
I might be wrong but I think I'm the only one on the board who doesn't think Jamis ever starts for the saints.  Payton loooooves Hill and a whole offseason to game plan for him as a mobile qb sounds like his galaxy brain wet dream.  Not to mention my own personal bias against qbs who give the ball to the other team.

I agree about Detroit.  They will be far better than people think.  Their OL is top tier and their DL is also potentially very good.  Goff is not a bottom tier QB, but a mid-tier with upside.  Swift and Williams will be top 5 duo in terms of total yards from scrimmage.  They have good TEs with Hock and Fells.  Their WR will surprise people but Tyrell needs to stay healthy.  They have a lot of young talent on the corners.  Their coaching staff is stellar.  Their biggest problem is somehow they ended up with a tough schedule.  They have holes but they also have cap space.  They need some LB help and at safety. This will be a better team than every expert thinks.  I really liked their draft too.  They might have some surprise pieces there that step in sooner rather than later.  
Could not disagree more with your assessment of the coaches.  The new staff are "culture" guys, they're big on passion for the game and getting the locker room working towards a common goal.  It's exactly what you want when the last coach was a straight X's and O's guy who failed to execute his plans to make a team a team again.  What they aren't good at is game planning and in game adjustments, the kind of stuff you need to win.  Possibly by the end of this year their whole "yeah team let's go!" shtick will be worn out and the vets will be asking for someone who knows what they're doing.

 

jon_mx

Footballguy
Could not disagree more with your assessment of the coaches.  The new staff are "culture" guys, they're big on passion for the game and getting the locker room working towards a common goal.  It's exactly what you want when the last coach was a straight X's and O's guy who failed to execute his plans to make a team a team again.  What they aren't good at is game planning and in game adjustments, the kind of stuff you need to win.  Possibly by the end of this year their whole "yeah team let's go!" shtick will be worn out and the vets will be asking for someone who knows what they're doing.
Let's look at Detroits staff.

Duce Staley.  Great player who has been doing great things as a running backs coach to the point he was being considered for a head coaching job.

Aubrey Pleasant:  a great DB coach with a ton of experience and success in developing talent.

Aaron Glenn:  inexperienced as a defensive coordinator, but has been a great DB coach for New Orleans and was ready for the promotion.  

Dave Fipp:  special teams.  Has years of experience leading the Eagles to being one of the best coached special teams groups in the NFL. 

Mark DeLeone.  Linebackers.  Years of experience with Bears and Chiefs being mentioned for defensive coordinator jobs.  Highly successful. 

Anthony Lynn.  Offensive coordinator..  Four years head coach with San Diego, decades of NFL coaching experience.  

These are not rah-rah guys.  These are knowledgeable well respected coaches.  Dan Campbell is a great rah-rah guy, but he also knows football inside and out and has learned a lot from being around some great NFL coaches. Dan Campbell is the perfect leader for a football team who understands and cares for people and knows what drives them. As well as knows a lot about football and us completely dedicated. 

 

travdogg

Footballguy
I might be wrong but I think I'm the only one on the board who doesn't think Jamis ever starts for the saints.  Payton loooooves Hill and a whole offseason to game plan for him as a mobile qb sounds like his galaxy brain wet dream.  Not to mention my own personal bias against qbs who give the ball to the other team.
I'd personally rather see Hill be the starter, and I think he'd likely lead to more wins for the Saints, but it sure seems like every report from observers is its Winston's job to lose...which he may end up doing.

 

wgoldsph

Footballguy
Let's look at Detroits staff.

Duce Staley.  Great player who has been doing great things as a running backs coach to the point he was being considered for a head coaching job.

Aubrey Pleasant:  a great DB coach with a ton of experience and success in developing talent.

Aaron Glenn:  inexperienced as a defensive coordinator, but has been a great DB coach for New Orleans and was ready for the promotion.  

Dave Fipp:  special teams.  Has years of experience leading the Eagles to being one of the best coached special teams groups in the NFL. 

Mark DeLeone.  Linebackers.  Years of experience with Bears and Chiefs being mentioned for defensive coordinator jobs.  Highly successful. 

Anthony Lynn.  Offensive coordinator..  Four years head coach with San Diego, decades of NFL coaching experience.  

These are not rah-rah guys.  These are knowledgeable well respected coaches.  Dan Campbell is a great rah-rah guy, but he also knows football inside and out and has learned a lot from being around some great NFL coaches. Dan Campbell is the perfect leader for a football team who understands and cares for people and knows what drives them. As well as knows a lot about football and us completely dedicated. 
I like Duce from back in the eagles day, but having experience and being good are two totally different things.  Lynn for example was a terrible head coach whose teams under preformed and whose offensive philosophy was old by the time he got a head coaching gig.  And are you really calling a guy who was the assistant in charge of the KC linebackers "highly successful"?

Killing me smalls.

 

jon_mx

Footballguy
I like Duce from back in the eagles day, but having experience and being good are two totally different things.  Lynn for example was a terrible head coach whose teams under preformed and whose offensive philosophy was old by the time he got a head coaching gig.  And are you really calling a guy who was the assistant in charge of the KC linebackers "highly successful"?

Killing me smalls.
He (DeLeone) has been held in high regard by players he has coached and is credited with the development of Roquan Smith, who was a second-team All-Pro in 2020, when he led the Bears with 139 tackles and 18 tackles-for-loss, with four sacks, two interceptions and seven pass break-ups,” Chicago Sun-Times Mark Potash said. “Nick Kwiatkoski also blossomed under DeLeone, parlaying an outstanding 2019 season as an injury replacement for Smith and Danny Trevathan into a three-year, $21 million contract with the Raiders. And Trevathan had a standout season in 2019 before his injury, earning a three-year, $21.8 million contract extension with the Bears.”

 

SoBeDad

Footballguy
49ers have an elite LT, TE, and LB. Bosa should be very good, as should Debo. I'm surprised they're not in the top 15.

 

TripItUp

Footballguy
Teams that will outperform this ranking:

Niners - still one of the best rosters and front offices in the NFL, don't let last year's disastrous injuries fool ya.

Chargers - roster is stacked and Herbert is the next great NFL QB

Patriots - Improved on both sides of the ball

Teams that will underperform this ranking:

Cardinals - brutal division, O line still terrible

Seahawks - brutal division

Broncos - you have to have a serviceable QB

 

travdogg

Footballguy
A lot of people have argued San Fran is too low and Denver is too high. My question is this, why is San Fran better than Denver? 

If you break them down position group by position group, it really doesn't seem to be the case to me. Ignoring QB for a moment, San Fran has a better OL, and I think that is about it. Denver's weapons are better(Gordon/Williams/Sutton/Jeudy/Hamler/Patrick/Fant vs Mostert/Sermon/Aiyuk/Deebo/Sanu/James/Kittle) Denver has a slightly better front 7, and a FAR better secondary. Also SF lost what most believe to be one of the top defensive minds in the game in Robert Saleh. 

So QB is the big issue here, and I really don't see the QB rooms as all that different. I'd prefer San Fran's, but not by much. Garappolo and Bridgewater are pretty similar caliber of QB's, they have different styles, but quality is pretty close. So unless an FCS QB who has basically not played since 2019, is NFL ready(a long shot) I don't think the difference at QB is significant. 

I think both teams were rated about right. I think San Fran is the worst team in an excellent division, and Denver is a wildcard caliber team in an easier division. 

 

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