All Play + H2H - Thoughts? (1 Viewer)

[jtp0414]

My 10 teamer had another one of those years where scheduling played a major factor in weaker teams making the playoffs. We switched to doubleheaders about 6 years ago, which did help some alleviate some of the luck factor.

I have been thinking about going to All Play, but suspect this will draw the ire of my leaguemates as they like playing other teams each week. I would be curious to get others thoughts on playing All Play + 1 H2H each week. So you would have 10 opponents each week, 1 of them being duplicated. I alternate between thinking this is the solution and it being a really dumb idea. Thoughts?

 

[belljr]

What does the extra 1 game add?

 

[FF Wiseguy]

I've considered replacing my Best Regular Season Record prize with a Best All-Play Record prize. Top H2H record still gets a bye week, so there's still incentive on that end.

I think H2H adds a necessary layer of fun to FF. That's why I've never considered switching my leagues to Total Points or solely All Play. I've toyed with the idea of making the playoffs a total points race, with bonus points added to top seeds, but again, even though it adds a lot of luck, I think having H2H matchups is just more fun.

A league I'm in does Victory points. You get 2 points for beating your opponent for the week, and then 0-2 points based on how you rank for the week in points scored. Victory points is the main basis for standings/playoff seeding, with W-L record acting as a tiebreaker. I've been quite pleased with it, although it does require more mental math to work out how standings will change from week to week.

 

[jtp0414]

@belljr - That is my struggle. I don't think it adds much other than being able to say you still have a H2H matchup.

I did throw out the idea of keeping the schedule as is with double headers and using that H2H record to determine division winners. Then take the 4 highest, non-division winning All Play records as the other playoff teams. A couple people thought that means we are running the league 2 ways, H2H and All Play and didn't like that at all.

The double headers are a huge hit with the league. My goal is to keep it fun, while trying to ensure the best teams are in the playoffs. I think keeping the 2 x H2H and using the All Play record to select and seed playoff teams is a good hybrid solution.

 

[lod01]

@belljr - That is my struggle. I don't think it adds much other than being able to say you still have a H2H matchup.

I did throw out the idea of keeping the schedule as is with double headers and using that H2H record to determine division winners. Then take the 4 highest, non-division winning All Play records as the other playoff teams. A couple people thought that means we are running the league 2 ways, H2H and All Play and didn't like that at all.

The double headers are a huge hit with the league. My goal is to keep it fun, while trying to ensure the best teams are in the playoffs. I think keeping the 2 x H2H and using the All Play record to select and seed playoff teams is a good hybrid solution.

Exactly what we are going to bring up for next year, keeping the league H-H. All play eliminates the bye weeks. Imagine the one week you play a team and your 3 best guys are off and he has all his players, you lose but beat him every other week yet because you are tied with him record wise, he goes and you don't. The plan is to use all Play as the 1st tie breaker and starter points as the 2nd.

 

[Hankmoody]

My 10 teamer had another one of those years where scheduling played a major factor in weaker teams making the playoffs. We switched to doubleheaders about 6 years ago, which did help some alleviate some of the luck factor.

I have been thinking about going to All Play, but suspect this will draw the ire of my leaguemates as they like playing other teams each week. I would be curious to get others thoughts on playing All Play + 1 H2H each week. So you would have 10 opponents each week, 1 of them being duplicated. I alternate between thinking this is the solution and it being a really dumb idea. Thoughts?

Why?

And what you mean you are thinking about going to All Play but it would upset the leaguemates? Are you arbitrarily changing rules? Do you not discuss these things as a league and/or vote on changes?

 

[jtp0414]

I am trying to present to them a final version of my proposed changes rather than asking them for input as to how it should work. The intent of my post was to flush out any unintended consequences as well as anticipate questions that may come up.

 

[Hankmoody]

First, find out what your host can support - that could be a huge factor in your decision. MFL doesn't support the below verbatim, for example.

Second, you gotta get a sense of how much they like the H2H factor. You can weight the H2H factor according to how important they want it to be. For example, to keep it "a big part" of winning the division:

H2H win = 11 points

High scorer = 9 points

2nd high scorer = 8 points

on down to 0 for last.

So the guy that scores 9th highest and wins still gets 12 points, while the guy that scores 2nd high and loses still gets 8.

Just raise/lower the H2H points awarded to increase/decrease the emphasis you want on H2H.

MFL supports a hybrid of this through their Victory Points option. They let you choose "buckets" to award Victory Points to, 2 or 3. If you choose 2, the top 1/2 of the league will get the VP, the bottom half won't, and whoever wins gets the win points. If you choose 3, then points go to the top 1/3, middle 1/3, and bottom 1/3 as you decide.

MFL also lets you adjust VP every week, so you could just set the buckets to 0 and do adjustments per the above if the commish were willing to go in and add them manually every week.

 

[AcerFC]

Run your new setup vs on the setup you have now

We had one of those years as well. However, I ran three scenarios and in every single one, 5/6 teams that made the playoffs would still have made it. Might not make as much of a difference as you think.

 

[belljr]

We give a prize to overall points to offset any bad h2h anamolies.

However a "bad" team got in the playoffs this year over a "better" team.

The "bad" team is in the finals

 

[renesauz]

Victory point system is a nice compromise

 

[RCon]

I'm in a 12-teamer where we do H2H for 11 weeks (everybody plays everybody once), then Fumblemania for the last two weeks. Each victory during H2H is worth 6 "points", and the Fumblemania weeks are all-play where the top scorer for the week gets 12, then 11, down to 1 for the worst of the week. Makes the last two weeks kind of crazy around the cut line for the playoffs (and sometimes seeding for the week 14 bye). We find it to be a nice compromise.

 

[The Dude]

I have had the same thought as the OP. The point is to lessen the randomness of the schedule. I would bet most leagues could look at 3-4 teams and say had they had a different teams' schedule......they would have missed/made the playoffs. I would still emphasize H2H over AP though and give 2 points for a H2H win and 1 point for finishing top half of the league.

 

[AcerFC]

I'm in a 12-teamer where we do H2H for 11 weeks (everybody plays everybody once), then Fumblemania for the last two weeks. Each victory during H2H is worth 6 "points", and the Fumblemania weeks are all-play where the top scorer for the week gets 12, then 11, down to 1 for the worst of the week. Makes the last two weeks kind of crazy around the cut line for the playoffs (and sometimes seeding for the week 14 bye). We find it to be a nice compromise.

this sounds awesome. Not sure I like the 12-1 pt system, but the concept is great. What site do you run this on

 

[Dez]

In my local dynasty league I run we do both H2H and All play. We call them VP's. We have 3 divisions of 4 teams. Each team plays the standard H2H schedule twice vs division teams and once vs everyone else except 1 team since we do 13 weeks. The 3 teams that win the division with best H2H record make playoffs. The 3 wildcard teams are done by VP's (all play). Each week you get 1 VP for every team you beat (0-11 per week). The top 3 non division winners with most VP's get wildcard spots and then we seed the teams 1-6 based on VP's so you could be a wildcard team and still be #1 seed since all play is the best indicator of true season success. Top 2 seeds get a bye.