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Andre Brown starter? And the keeper impact for 2013 (1 Viewer)

austinball

Footballguy
Forgive me for a post I HOPE doesn't belong in the AC forum. But with the news from Joe Bryant that Andre Brown has a decent chance to start in 2013, I've been thinking about his overall impact, and his impact on my keepers.

My league doesn't choose keepers until August, but I had been planning to keep Doug Martin and give up a 2nd round pick, and also keep AJ Green for a 4th round pick (we keep 2 players).

I could keep Andre Brown and give up a 12 round pick. If he were to start, would any of you take him instead of D Martin for a 2nd?

I picked Brown off of waivers last year after he was injured and dropped. I liked what I saw from the guy when he was out there. I understand the durability concerns, but he strikes me as much more of a Coughlin back than Wilson overall. He's like a combo of Brandon Jacobs and A Bradshaw. The type of aggressive runner Coughlin really likes.

Like I said, Im not making any roster decisions now, just pondering the possibilities in this loooooong stretch of off-season. Personally I can't get into any other fantasy sport BUT NFL, and its killing me to wait so long.

Last year I kept AJ Green and Kevin Smith (giving up a 12th pick) and it bit me in the ###. At least Smith did.

 

FreeBaGeL

Footballguy
I could keep Andre Brown and give up a 12 round pick. If he were to start, would any of you take him instead of D Martin for a 2nd?
AC question, but no way I would keep him over D Martin to keep the 2nd.

ETA: Even if he "starts", which is unlikely, he'll merely be the head of a split with David Wilson.

 
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Azhais

Footballguy
At the end of the day it'll come down to if Wilson can be trusted to pass block. As I recall that was the reason he wasn't used all that much last year- he was a liability on passing downs.

 

Time Kibitzer

Footballguy
Andre Brown can barely stay healthy as a backup. He'll last 3 weeks max if he's getting a starter's amount of carries.

 

zamboni

Footballguy
At the end of the day it'll come down to if Wilson can be trusted to pass block. As I recall that was the reason he wasn't used all that much last year- he was a liability on passing downs.
I remember reading several weeks ago that the coaching staff was much more pleased with his blocking progress, but who knows for sure until the pads come on.

 

monk

Footballguy
Yes ... that would be a great move sharky.

Wilson proved that he doesn't have the skill that was expected of a 1st rounder ... The Giants will cut bait and ride Andre Brown.

I'm thinking 1500 - 1700 total yards and 12-15 tds plus you get a 2nd round pick.

 

TheFanatic

Footballguy
Yes ... that would be a great move sharky.

Wilson proved that he doesn't have the skill that was expected of a 1st rounder ... The Giants will cut bait and ride Andre Brown.

I'm thinking 1500 - 1700 total yards and 12-15 tds plus you get a 2nd round pick.
Thanks for contributing.. That's three seconds I'll never get back...

 

Touchdown There

Footballguy
Yes ... that would be a great move sharky. Wilson proved that he doesn't have the skill that was expected of a 1st rounder ... The Giants will cut bait and ride Andre Brown.I'm thinking 1500 - 1700 total yards and 12-15 tds plus you get a 2nd round pick.
Thanks for contributing.. That's three seconds I'll never get back...
That is because you are anti-Wilson. I thoroughly enjoyed the sarcasm.
 

Bri

Footballguy
I don't know that either can last a full game, week in week out. The Gmen have almost always used more than one back under Coughlin, that's gotta be the case here.

The Giants probably aren't done with their RBs. Scott might fill a Meggett role or their FB a Mack/Jacobs role. I still feel like a piece is missing and they'll sign someone.

One guy getting most of the carries happened with Ahmad once and then like all the way back to Rodney Hampton. It'd be unusual for the Gmen to roll with one back as is insinuated within this thread.

 

ThePittbully

Footballguy
Other than Brown stating he'd like to win a bigger role and a few writers writing about the possibility of it, there has been no legitimate talk about Brown getting a chance at being the starter. I'm sure he will get carries, but Wilson is a first round pick and he will get every opportunity to prove himself. If he can stay healthy I think Brown has value because of possibly early down and goal line work, but he will not be a feature back. As of now we don't even know if he can stay healthy as a part time back

 

netnalp

Footballguy
Other than Brown stating he'd like to win a bigger role and a few writers writing about the possibility of it, there has been no legitimate talk about Brown getting a chance at being the starter. I'm sure he will get carries, but Wilson is a first round pick and he will get every opportunity to prove himself. If he can stay healthy I think Brown has value because of possibly early down and goal line work, but he will not be a feature back. As of now we don't even know if he can stay healthy as a part time back
I agree. Wilson showed in his limited carries that he can run with power. Wilson and Brown will battle it out in camp and probably early into the season for the short yardage and goalline work. Like Bradshaw and Jacobs did. In that case Bradshaw kind of won it, but neither had much success. I think it's because the Oline has had trouble moving bodies in short yardage.

 

Jercules

Footballguy
This situation is easy as cake to figure out. Hopefully your draft is reasonably late in August: Wait and see if they're still using Wilson on kick returns. If they are, go with Brown. If not, go hard after Wilson, given his upside.

 

JamesTheScot

Footballguy
I don't know that either can last a full game, week in week out. The Gmen have almost always used more than one back under Coughlin, that's gotta be the case here.

The Giants probably aren't done with their RBs. Scott might fill a Meggett role or their FB a Mack/Jacobs role. I still feel like a piece is missing and they'll sign someone.

One guy getting most of the carries happened with Ahmad once and then like all the way back to Rodney Hampton. It'd be unusual for the Gmen to roll with one back as is insinuated within this thread.
Comeon dude, there wasn't one team in the NFL that only used one back last year. It's all a question of percentages, not absolutes. Every team uses two or three backs.

And what Coughlin likes to do with his backs has zero relationship to what Parcells or anyone else used to do when they were coach of the Giants, particularly 20 years ago.

I really wish someone would slaughter that "the team historically does/does not ..." sacred cow.

Why would we even give a moment's credibility to the notion that a current coaching staff is somehow constrained by, or is trying to keep alive, some tradition from a previous coaching administration. The new staff wouldn't even be here if what the old staff did had proven effective.

Nothing personal, but these cliches just drive me nuts sometimes. :wall:

<rant over>

 

EBF

Footballguy
Drafted Brown when he was still in prep school in a college dynasty league many years back. Followed his career pretty closely at NC State.

Guy is made out of glass. Plain and simple. He has always had talent, but he gets hurt all the time because of his style. Upright and can't avoid hits.

He will always be prone to missing lots of time. Even if he figures into the mix pretty heavily, expect him to spend a lot of time on the trainer's table.

 

netnalp

Footballguy
This situation is easy as cake to figure out. Hopefully your draft is reasonably late in August: Wait and see if they're still using Wilson on kick returns. If they are, go with Brown. If not, go hard after Wilson, given his upside.
Word is that Wilson likely won't be doing returns this year. Though I could see him taking one if it was the last play of the 1st half or last drive in a game they are down one score.

They've been pursuing KR's like Cribbs. Aaron Ross is back and could see time as the PR/KR though they'd like someone that's more explosive. Jernigan will get another shot at KR's too.

 

JamesTheScot

Footballguy
Other than Brown stating he'd like to win a bigger role and a few writers writing about the possibility of it, there has been no legitimate talk about Brown getting a chance at being the starter. I'm sure he will get carries, but Wilson is a first round pick and he will get every opportunity to prove himself. If he can stay healthy I think Brown has value because of possibly early down and goal line work, but he will not be a feature back. As of now we don't even know if he can stay healthy as a part time back
This. It's just idle speculation and chatter to fill the football columns until training camps start. It isn't linked to anything of any substance coming from the team.

It's symptomatic of a desire to try and hit on a flier by running counter to the general consensus. Of course, if we were really that smart, we'd go ahead and use "will start" instead of "could start" or "might start".

But then again, using "could" and "might" allows us to position ourselves to both claim our hits AND disown our misses, thereby playing both sides until hindsight tells us how to spin it. So it's better to couch our endorsements in terms that will let us claim it wasn't an endorsement later on if need be.

If someone stands up and says that Brown is going to start over Wilson because he's better, I'll respect that guy. I'll think he's 100% wrong, but I'll know he isn't afraid to call his shot.

 

JaYz0618

Footballguy
Really writing Wilson off ? Watch his play from last year, he runs with some serious power and has the speed to match.

 

JamesTheScot

Footballguy
This situation is easy as cake to figure out. Hopefully your draft is reasonably late in August: Wait and see if they're still using Wilson on kick returns. If they are, go with Brown. If not, go hard after Wilson, given his upside.
Word is that Wilson likely won't be doing returns this year. Though I could see him taking one if it was the last play of the 1st half or last drive in a game they are down one score.

They've been pursuing KR's like Cribbs. Aaron Ross is back and could see time as the PR/KR though they'd like someone that's more explosive. Jernigan will get another shot at KR's too.
Posted 4 days ago...

(KFFL) The New York Giants likely will continue to use RB David Wilson as their kick returner after being unable to sign Oakland Raiders WR Joshua Cribbs. It was believed Wilson would have his return duties reduced because he is expected to be the starting running back.

Posted 8 days ago...

(TheHuddle)New York Giants special teams coordinator Tom Quinn said he believes RB David Wilson can still be a kick returner this season even though he is expected to be the starting running back. "With his expanded role (in the offense), we'll see where it leads," Quinn said. "He said he'd like to do both, but it all depends on the game and his carries and what his role is in the offense."

Posted 9 days ago...

(Rotoworld)Giants special teams coach Tom Quinn said he believes RB David Wilson believes can handle an increased offensive role and kickoff returns.

Analysis: Wilson was the Giants' primary kick returner last season, returning a league-high 57 kicks for an average of 26.9 yards. In Week 14 against the Saints, he returned a kick for a 97-yard score. With Ahmad Bradshaw out of the mix, Wilson is in line for a dramatically increased role on offense, sharing running back duties with Andre Brown. We're not convinced the Giants would risk such an important piece of their offense and doubt Wilson handles kickoffs in 2013.

I wouldn't let kick return reps in training camp tell me what to do about Wilson. The kid is genuinely good at it and we tend as fantasy ballers to devalue the importance of special teams to NFL teams. He'll still get touches at KR duty as well.

 

Bri

Footballguy
I don't know that either can last a full game, week in week out. The Gmen have almost always used more than one back under Coughlin, that's gotta be the case here.

The Giants probably aren't done with their RBs. Scott might fill a Meggett role or their FB a Mack/Jacobs role. I still feel like a piece is missing and they'll sign someone.

One guy getting most of the carries happened with Ahmad once and then like all the way back to Rodney Hampton. It'd be unusual for the Gmen to roll with one back as is insinuated within this thread.
Comeon dude, there wasn't one team in the NFL that only used one back last year. It's all a question of percentages, not absolutes. Every team uses two or three backs.

And what Coughlin likes to do with his backs has zero relationship to what Parcells or anyone else used to do when they were coach of the Giants, particularly 20 years ago.

I really wish someone would slaughter that "the team historically does/does not ..." sacred cow.

Why would we even give a moment's credibility to the notion that a current coaching staff is somehow constrained by, or is trying to keep alive, some tradition from a previous coaching administration. The new staff wouldn't even be here if what the old staff did had proven effective.

Nothing personal, but these cliches just drive me nuts sometimes. :wall:

<rant over>
There's a big difference between many teams and the others that have had coaches for a long time.

I went back to Fassell sure, but even during that time Coughlin was using Means and Mack or Taylor and Mack. He went to the Giants and used Tiki/Jacobs and Tiki Jacobs Ward, Jacobs Ward, Jacobs Ward Bradshaw, Jacobs and Bradshaw, then Bradshaw....long history showing how they roll.

That, plus neither back showing the durability to carry a full season's load...to me it seems a good prediction that two continue to share the rock.

To me, Coughlin/Gilbride perfected their rotation when they used Jacobs and Ward for much of three quarters, then young speedy Bradshaw with the lion's share of 4th quarter carries. They were one of the top run teams, went to playoffs (it might have been supe year, unsure) ....it was very methodical and I was impressed.

IIRC those RBs averaged high ypc that year too. Naturally I think this is every coaches goal in a RB rotation-keeping them fresh and using them at the right times to be highly effective/efficient.

Sure every team uses more than one RB, but for FF if a RB gets all but 40 50 carries we all sure act like he got them all. You know how it goes around here

 

Bri

Footballguy
Other than Brown stating he'd like to win a bigger role and a few writers writing about the possibility of it, there has been no legitimate talk about Brown getting a chance at being the starter. I'm sure he will get carries, but Wilson is a first round pick and he will get every opportunity to prove himself. If he can stay healthy I think Brown has value because of possibly early down and goal line work, but he will not be a feature back. As of now we don't even know if he can stay healthy as a part time back
This. It's just idle speculation and chatter to fill the football columns until training camps start. It isn't linked to anything of any substance coming from the team.

It's symptomatic of a desire to try and hit on a flier by running counter to the general consensus.
Brown started last year. It's normal for us or writers to predict a previous year's starter will get a shot at starting. It's not like he was on the practice squad and we're dreaming of starts, he started some last year.

 

Sabertooth

Footballguy
I think Brown's production will be largely based on touchdowns. I expect his carries to be similar to what they were last season. I think Wilson slides into the Bradshaw role.

I'll give him a slight bump in carries.

140 carries, 500 yards, 8 touchdowns.

 

Jercules

Footballguy
JamesTheScot said:
This situation is easy as cake to figure out. Hopefully your draft is reasonably late in August: Wait and see if they're still using Wilson on kick returns. If they are, go with Brown. If not, go hard after Wilson, given his upside.
Word is that Wilson likely won't be doing returns this year. Though I could see him taking one if it was the last play of the 1st half or last drive in a game they are down one score.

They've been pursuing KR's like Cribbs. Aaron Ross is back and could see time as the PR/KR though they'd like someone that's more explosive. Jernigan will get another shot at KR's too.
Posted 4 days ago...

(KFFL) The New York Giants likely will continue to use RB David Wilson as their kick returner after being unable to sign Oakland Raiders WR Joshua Cribbs. It was believed Wilson would have his return duties reduced because he is expected to be the starting running back.

Posted 8 days ago...

(TheHuddle)New York Giants special teams coordinator Tom Quinn said he believes RB David Wilson can still be a kick returner this season even though he is expected to be the starting running back. "With his expanded role (in the offense), we'll see where it leads," Quinn said. "He said he'd like to do both, but it all depends on the game and his carries and what his role is in the offense."

Posted 9 days ago...

(Rotoworld)Giants special teams coach Tom Quinn said he believes RB David Wilson believes can handle an increased offensive role and kickoff returns.

Analysis: Wilson was the Giants' primary kick returner last season, returning a league-high 57 kicks for an average of 26.9 yards. In Week 14 against the Saints, he returned a kick for a 97-yard score. With Ahmad Bradshaw out of the mix, Wilson is in line for a dramatically increased role on offense, sharing running back duties with Andre Brown. We're not convinced the Giants would risk such an important piece of their offense and doubt Wilson handles kickoffs in 2013.

I wouldn't let kick return reps in training camp tell me what to do about Wilson. The kid is genuinely good at it and we tend as fantasy ballers to devalue the importance of special teams to NFL teams. He'll still get touches at KR duty as well.
Thanks for the info. There's no way to conclude the Giants will use Wilson as a primary back if he's also slated to return kicks. That's not to say he lacks significant value, and the fact that they went after Josh Cribbs to relieve Wilson of KR duties speaks volumes--but so long as he's relegated to special teams, Andre Brown has significant FF value.

As it stands, Wilson's slated for a Felix Jones/early MJD/Sproles/Leon Washington in NY/Spiller/Stephens-Howling/J. Rodgers/Woodhead/etc. role.

Of course, it isn't even training camp yet, so obviously...

 

netnalp

Footballguy
JamesTheScot said:
Posted 8 days ago...

(TheHuddle)New York Giants special teams coordinator Tom Quinn said he believes RB David Wilson can still be a kick returner this season even though he is expected to be the starting running back. "With his expanded role (in the offense), we'll see where it leads," Quinn said. "He said he'd like to do both, but it all depends on the game and his carries and what his role is in the offense."
"We'll see how it all plays out. Obviously, he's tremendous at (returning kickoffs)," Quinn said. "With his expanded role, we'll see where it leads and hopefully someone else does step up."

 

JamesTheScot

Footballguy
Other than Brown stating he'd like to win a bigger role and a few writers writing about the possibility of it, there has been no legitimate talk about Brown getting a chance at being the starter. I'm sure he will get carries, but Wilson is a first round pick and he will get every opportunity to prove himself. If he can stay healthy I think Brown has value because of possibly early down and goal line work, but he will not be a feature back. As of now we don't even know if he can stay healthy as a part time back
This. It's just idle speculation and chatter to fill the football columns until training camps start. It isn't linked to anything of any substance coming from the team.

It's symptomatic of a desire to try and hit on a flier by running counter to the general consensus.
Brown started last year. It's normal for us or writers to predict a previous year's starter will get a shot at starting. It's not like he was on the practice squad and we're dreaming of starts, he started some last year.
But that just firmly puts it in the idle speculation category. Is it really "news" for someone to say he might start?

And he started because he was healthier than Bradshaw and more exeperienced than Wilson. Dwyer started some last year too. Having started a few games last year really doesn't mean much without the context.

I liked Brown as a rookie. I drafted him that year. And I don't think he's junk by any means. But even before his injuries he wasn't on the same talent level as Wilson. I don't think Brown has the game breaking ability that Wilson has and that ability tends to earn touches.

But it's the perfect situation to call your shot and then come back and brag about it. Just don't couch it in soft "might" terms. If you believe in him, be bold about it.

Me? I'm buying the Wilson ticket. Between the two, I think Wilson has the much higher ceiling. He'll cost more. But if they neutralize each other, and I think that's the best you can hope for on the Brown side of the equation, is anyone really going to be gloating over how they spent less money on Brown? Is having secured Brown for cheaper in what proves to ultimately be a timeshare going to be the move that put you over the edge for your championship run? I'd rather swing for the fences on Wilson.

But I've had my shares of misses too. I'm just some guy with nothing better to do at the moment than to post anonymously on a message board.

 

monk

Footballguy
This situation is easy as cake to figure out. Hopefully your draft is reasonably late in August: Wait and see if they're still using Wilson on kick returns. If they are, go with Brown. If not, go hard after Wilson, given his upside. Ask a Giant fan who has no vested FF interest.
From

Michael Eisen"It is widely assumed Wilson will be the starting running back in 2013,"

"There are others in the mix Brown, Scott and Cox, But Wilson is the heavy favorite " ..."the general feeling is the job is Wilson’s to lose."

The Andre Brown as a starter nonsense is completely fabricated by FFballers who either own Brown, are digging for Gold later in FF drafts or are trying to devalue Wilson so they can snatch him up in their own drafts.

There has been no talk of Brown starting in NYC / Giants media circles and any educated Giant fan will tell you it's not even a consideration. Brown is a nice talent and great depth and he will be used [SIZE=12.000001907348633px]exactly[/SIZE] as he was last year ... He will likely spell Wilson (about 30%) and start if Wilson is injured.

 

monk

Footballguy
Here's some more ... from another thread

Giants RBs coach Jerald Ingram said David Wilson is showing improvement in pass protection.

The Giants' staff didn't trust Wilson as a blocker or in ball security as a rookie, so he got just 19 touches over the first 10 weeks. With Ahmad Bradshaw gone, the feature back job is Wilson's to lose. "We've tested him within the system, he did well a week ago, knowing what we’re doing and how to protect," Ingram said. "Now he's physically learned how to protect his quarterback, and he's looking forward to the challenge ... I'm pretty excited about where he is right now." Wilson is going to explode statistically as long as he hovers around the 17.4 touches per game Bradshaw received last year.

Apr 25 - 8:24 AM

Source: NJ.com

 

Sabertooth

Footballguy
I agree with Jamesthescot. I am going to put the more expensive chip down in the guy with the upside. Ideally you stash both and see how this ultimately plays out.

Heck with Coughlin you might see Ware starting.

 

netnalp

Footballguy
I agree with Jamesthescot. I am going to put the more expensive chip down in the guy with the upside. Ideally you stash both and see how this ultimately plays out.Heck with Coughlin you might see Ware starting.
Ware isn't with the team. It'd be Torain or Scott as the #3 as the roster sits at the moment.

 
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monk

Footballguy
I agree with Jamesthescot. I am going to put the more expensive chip down in the guy with the upside. Ideally you stash both and see how this ultimately plays out.

Heck with Coughlin you might see Ware starting.
When has Coughlin ever had a surprise starting RB?

  • Tiki Barber - was the clear starting RB until he retired
  • Jacobs - was the clear starter after Tiki until Bradshaw was ready and it was no secret that the Giants/ Coughlin did not like Jacobs as a starter.
  • Bradshaw - was the clear starter until he was injured
  • Andre Brown - was next in line because Wilson wasn't ready
  • Wilson took over when Brown went down and Bradshaw was injured and proved he was ready.
  • Bradshaw is gone and Wilson is the clear starter going into this season
No surprises

 

ThePittbully

Footballguy
I don't think whether he's returning kicks or not has much effect on his potential to be the starter. We've seen RB's and WR's with large offensive rolls in the past still returning kicks, it depends a lot on how good of a returner the guy is, how good their next choice is, and how comfortable they are with the injury risk. We saw MJD return kicks for quite a while, same for Harvin, Sproles with the Saints, etc...it happens

 
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Faust

MVP
Rotoworld:

ESPN New York confirms that Andre Brown is expected to be the Giants' goal-line back.
Brown seized the role last year, scoring eight touchdowns in just 10 games. Seven of those scores came in goal-to-go situations. Brown will serve as a handcuff to David Wilson, and will also give touchdown-seeking fantasy owners standalone value.


Source: ESPN New York
 

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