Andre Caldwell (1 Viewer)

[tombonneau]

Ok, Bengals homers, please fill me in. Just grabbed this guy based on targets/catches. Has he elevated himself to the #2 WR? I know Henry was the toast of August, but Caldwell seems to be the guy producing come September. Is Coles even so much as an afterthought? Is he actually still starting?

Thanks!

 

[BespokeJort]

not a bengals homer but from what I've seen caldwell seems to be growing into the Housh-role as Coles struggles...obviously he's not there yet but I see the potential for this kid to be a future FF stud

 

[gregjcross]

not a bengals homer but from what I've seen caldwell seems to be growing into the Housh-role as Coles struggles...obviously he's not there yet but I see the potential for this kid to be a future FF stud

The coaches said he would be a serious candidate for the Hous role early off season, pre-coles signing and emergence of Henry in camp.1) Who plays the first quarter? 2) If they don't, why dont they start Caldwell? 3) what do they say about him now that a few games are logged?

 

[cubbie5150]

Caldwell has the wrong BYE week, otherwise I'd try to pick him up to replace Laurent Robinson as my WR5. Palmer really does seem to trust him, & I can feel the TJH comparisons (in terms of role)

 

[taz]

Caldwell has the wrong BYE week, otherwise I'd try to pick him up to replace Laurent Robinson as my WR5. Palmer really does seem to trust him, & I can feel the TJH comparisons (in terms of role)

A good story, and interesting comments from Palmer on his rapport with Caldwell. I picked up Bryant Johnson for Robinson and would need to start him this week, but I'll probably switch to Caldwell with him filling the Housh role.http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/articl...DqoS4AD9B1GSFG0

Much of the offseason attention went to Cincinnati's signing of receiver Laveranues Coles, brought in to replace departed free agent T.J. Houshmandzadeh. But the bigger burden probably is on Caldwell, a third-round pick from Florida who is taking Houshmandzadeh's spot as the slot receiver and main threat to make tough catches in the middle of the field.

"He's playing T.J.'s position, so he'll get a lot of those plays," Palmer said.

The last one showed he's starting to develop the same type of rapport that Palmer had with Houshmandzadeh. Caldwell was supposed to get behind James Farrior, but the linebacker dropped deeper than expected. The receiver adjusted his route, turned in front of the linebacker and caught the winning pass with 14 seconds left.

"So I did like backyard football and just turned right in front of him, and Carson read it and threw it to me," Caldwell said. "We were thinking alike on the play, and he hit it right on time. It's like you've got to read each other's minds. Sometimes you've got to make adjustments on the run that aren't even in the game plan."

 

[Kirby]

Looks like he'll end up being a faster Housh.

 

[LadyBeBop]

I'll give my Bengals credit...they lose an all-pro and don't miss a beat.

That said, I think it's too early to consider Caldwell a WR2. WR3 or flex, sure. But not a WR2.

Despite his drops, Coles is still the starter. He's adjusting slowly to the Bengal system. I was at the game Sunday. Sure, he had a bad first quarter. But everyone in the offense did. He caught a few good passes in the final three quarters. They haven't given up on him quite yet.

I'm sure Caldwell will be a starter, no later than 2011 and possibly 2010. But unless Coles or Ochocinco gets injured, I wouldn't count on him to get me more than a few points a game.

The Bengal I'd downgrade in this scenerio is Henry. Caldwell is getting the ops that I thought CH would get.

 

[Wolfmother]

I'll give my Bengals credit...they lose an all-pro and don't miss a beat.That said, I think it's too early to consider Caldwell a WR2. WR3 or flex, sure. But not a WR2.Despite his drops, Coles is still the starter. He's adjusting slowly to the Bengal system. I was at the game Sunday. Sure, he had a bad first quarter. But everyone in the offense did. He caught a few good passes in the final three quarters. They haven't given up on him quite yet.I'm sure Caldwell will be a starter, no later than 2011 and possibly 2010. But unless Coles or Ochocinco gets injured, I wouldn't count on him to get me more than a few points a game. The Bengal I'd downgrade in this scenerio is Henry. Caldwell is getting the ops that I thought CH would get.

Good point ,i have stashed Caldwell in my deep ppr dynasty and will recoup many points over the seasons.

 

[tombonneau]

Thanks for the feedback, guys. So he certainly seems like he could be a Housh Lite this season, with a potentially higher ceiling if Coles should get hurt (well within the realm of possibility) or simply get put out to pasture.

 

[steelwind]

What was the offseason contract Coles signed? Did they bring him in with the intention of giving him the WR2 job or just depth? My opinion is that with the uncertaintly surrounding Chris Henry over the years and Caldwell being a young receiver they probably wanted Coles for depth. I think Coles' ceiling is where it is now. But Caldwell's ceiling is much higher. Palmer has spread the redzone targets throughout all four receivers. However, guess who leads the team with redzone targets?

 

[bengalbuck]

I think that after Ocho Cinco, the ball is going to be spread pretty evenly between Coles, Henry and Caldwell. Henry has been slowed by injury and should be more of a factor going forward. Coles got off to a terrible start in his first game vs. Denver but has been very solid since.

Probably not want fantasy owners want to hear, but I think Coles, Henry and Caldwell all end up with 500-800 yards and 4-6 TDs. Decent, but I'd probably never feel real comfortable starting one of them.

 

[bengalbuck]

What was the offseason contract Coles signed? Did they bring him in with the intention of giving him the WR2 job or just depth? My opinion is that with the uncertaintly surrounding Chris Henry over the years and Caldwell being a young receiver they probably wanted Coles for depth. I think Coles' ceiling is where it is now. But Caldwell's ceiling is much higher. Palmer has spread the redzone targets throughout all four receivers. However, guess who leads the team with redzone targets?

Coles got a surprisingly big contract. Something like 3 years, 20 million.

 

[steelwind]

What was the offseason contract Coles signed? Did they bring him in with the intention of giving him the WR2 job or just depth? My opinion is that with the uncertaintly surrounding Chris Henry over the years and Caldwell being a young receiver they probably wanted Coles for depth. I think Coles' ceiling is where it is now. But Caldwell's ceiling is much higher. Palmer has spread the redzone targets throughout all four receivers. However, guess who leads the team with redzone targets?

Coles got a surprisingly big contract. Something like 3 years, 20 million.

WOW. That does surprise me. On paper, he's clearly jotted down as the WR2. There's no way coach will make Coles the WR3 sitting on 20 million. It's gonna take an injury for Caldwell to take the starting job. Either that or Palmer will need to throw 40 times a game.

 

[SoFresh&SoClean]

The thing is, Bratowski doesn't feel the urge to use 3-4 WR sets until they really need to move the ball...usually 4th quarter. That's when Caldwell has been getting his receptions. I think he's pretty much the WR3 as I figured he would be early this summer, but I have heard that Henry has been suffering some minor injuries or something so his time has been limited to when they need him to run down field.

Caldwell will see a bigger role if he continues to make big plays, or at least I'd hope so. The kid has skills and Carson likes throwing to him.

 

[zoos]

i do not have a quote to offer but i feel like i have read comments by palmer that caldwell is in the housh role and he is therefore getting passes that housh would have. i found this surprising as i thought coles was in that spot but palmer's comments made it sound like caldwell is that guy and the numbers so far seem to bear that out to a degree.

 

[QuizGuy66]

The thing is, Bratowski doesn't feel the urge to use 3-4 WR sets until they really need to move the ball...usually 4th quarter. That's when Caldwell has been getting his receptions. I think he's pretty much the WR3 as I figured he would be early this summer, but I have heard that Henry has been suffering some minor injuries or something so his time has been limited to when they need him to run down field.Caldwell will see a bigger role if he continues to make big plays, or at least I'd hope so. The kid has skills and Carson likes throwing to him.

Definitely, I would say the 2 is a guy you want to grab in dynasty type formats if he's floating out there. I do think that after Ocho, things will be rather level between Coles, 2 and Henry but tilted more towards the first 2 as opposed to Henry. 2's gonna be better for PPR-type leagues as he's a guy Palmer is going to continue to key in on in 3rd-down type situations. More possession than big play IMO.-QG

 

[duaneok66]

Caldwell had six rexeptions last week . . .

question to anyone that watched: Is Coles always in with the base offense . . .

 

[fantasizing]

I would like to see Palmer be a bit more aggressive than that we have seen so far. He seems to be in the role of "managing the game".

Wish he'd take a few more shots deep downfield. Increase fantasy numbers for Caldwell, Henry, and all other WR's.

Cincy has the potential to be a great offense.

Then again, how can I argue with what they are doing now. They are 4-2. Should be 5-1.

 

[RBM]

So tempted to pick this guy up and drop Bryant, but the targets are so inconsistent so Im hesitant.

Love to hear from a Cincy homer about his role and if it might increase, even if its next year.

 

[LadyBeBop]

question to anyone that watched: Is Coles always in with the base offense . . .

Coles was bought in to be the 2nd WR. I think Coles was Mike Brown's back-up plan if/when they did not sign Housh. Brown took a gamble making Shayne Graham the Bengals franchise player (a kicker?). He thought he could resign Housh. Well Housh went to Seattle (close to home). Coles was signed to the Bengals the following day.Coles is the starter alongside OchoCinco. But I still think both him and Caldwell have about the same fantasy value.

 

[duaneok66]

question to anyone that watched: Is Coles always in with the base offense . . .

Coles was bought in to be the 2nd WR. I think Coles was Mike Brown's back-up plan if/when they did not sign Housh. Brown took a gamble making Shayne Graham the Bengals franchise player (a kicker?). He thought he could resign Housh. Well Housh went to Seattle (close to home). Coles was signed to the Bengals the following day.Coles is the starter alongside OchoCinco. But I still think both him and Caldwell have about the same fantasy value.

some think Caldwell will take over soon (as the #2) - what do you think???

 

[cvnpoka]

caldwell has been on the field for 170 pass plays while coles has only seen 146 pass plays. coles has seen many more run plays at 135 to 46, which matters nada in fantasy.

caldwell is getting 5.7 targets/game to 4.5 for coles.

its pretty clear to me that caldwell is currently more involved in the passing game is preferred by palmer. that could change, but statements such "coles is the number 2" or "coles is making too much money to take a back seat" or "coles is the starter" simply dont hold much water. caldwell is a better fantasy wr than coles and i cant see any reason that coles will emerge as better in the future. it is certainly possible, but his play has not warranted it, and his involvement has not reflected it.

edit to add that it appears caldwells role has increased recently. week 6 was 32 to 15 and week 5 was 31 to 9.

 

[duaneok66]

caldwell has been on the field for 170 pass plays while coles has only seen 146 pass plays. coles has seen many more run plays at 135 to 46, which matters nada in fantasy.caldwell is getting 5.7 targets/game to 4.5 for coles.its pretty clear to me that caldwell is currently more involved in the passing game is preferred by palmer. that could change, but statements such "coles is the number 2" or "coles is making too much money to take a back seat" or "coles is the starter" simply dont hold much water. caldwell is a better fantasy wr than coles and i cant see any reason that coles will emerge as better in the future. it is certainly possible, but his play has not warranted it, and his involvement has not reflected it.edit to add that it appears caldwells role has increased recently. week 6 was 32 to 15 and week 5 was 31 to 9.

thanks . . . this is what I was looking for . . .

 

[LadyBeBop]

its pretty clear to me that caldwell is currently more involved in the passing game is preferred by palmer. that could change, but statements such "coles is the number 2" or "coles is making too much money to take a back seat" or "coles is the starter" simply dont hold much water. caldwell is a better fantasy wr than coles and i cant see any reason that coles will emerge as better in the future. it is certainly possible, but his play has not warranted it, and his involvement has not reflected it.

I'm not disagreeing with you. Caldwell is the better option as a receiver. But we're talking about the Bengals. Maybe I'm a little too hasty at saying that Coles is getting more opportunities than Caldwell. There is a rapport between Palmer and Caldwell that you don't see with Palmer and Coles. But I just can't see Mike Brown shelling out the bucks for a #3 (or #4) receiver.As a Bengal fan, I hope I'm wrong. We Bengal fans have seen far too many drops from Coles. And we can never get enough touchdown winning receptions from Caldwell. /. But I just see them keeping Coles too long...just to prove a point.

 

[cvnpoka]

lady bebop, i am just going by the numbers, which point to coles being clearly more involved in the passing game. it seems you think there is a possibility that mike brown will tell marvin to get coles more involved and take away from caldwell. taht is certainly possible, but the numbers clearly point to caldwell being more involved and the gap is widening.

i used this site to get my numbers. its is fantastic imo.

http://profootballfocus.com/cstats.php?tab...e=a&stats=o

 

[LadyBeBop]

Fortunately, I don't think Brown gets too involved in the coaching aspect of the game. I think it's Lewis's team.

Maybe I'm jaded, being a Bengals fan since the Nixon administration. But I still don't trust the Bengals doing the right thing. Franchising Graham and letting Housh go was a mistake, and they overcompensated by giving Coles such a huge contract.

Let's just say, I hope I'm wrong. OK?

 

[duaneok66]

lady bebop, i am just going by the numbers, which point to coles being clearly more involved in the passing game. it seems you think there is a possibility that mike brown will tell marvin to get coles more involved and take away from caldwell. taht is certainly possible, but the numbers clearly point to caldwell being more involved and the gap is widening.

i used this site to get my numbers. its is fantastic imo.

http://profootballfocus.com/cstats.php?tab...e=a&stats=o

thanks for the link . . . interesting, if I can count correctly - Coles was only in on only 7 of 23 snaps in the second half . . .

 

[The Ref]

I have a choice between H Miller and Caldwell this week in PPR. I'm going with Miller, but I do have the feeling in 5 weeks Calwell will be the easy choice.

 

[cvnpoka]

Fortunately, I don't think Brown gets too involved in the coaching aspect of the game. I think it's Lewis's team. Maybe I'm jaded, being a Bengals fan since the Nixon administration. But I still don't trust the Bengals doing the right thing. Franchising Graham and letting Housh go was a mistake, and they overcompensated by giving Coles such a huge contract.Let's just say, I hope I'm wrong. OK?

another option would have been to trade ocho for a first rounder and more (the skins offered a first and possibly another pick.) then use the cash from ocho's salary to pay housh.

 

[QuizGuy66]

Fortunately, I don't think Brown gets too involved in the coaching aspect of the game. I think it's Lewis's team. Maybe I'm jaded, being a Bengals fan since the Nixon administration. But I still don't trust the Bengals doing the right thing. Franchising Graham and letting Housh go was a mistake, and they overcompensated by giving Coles such a huge contract.Let's just say, I hope I'm wrong. OK?

I only 1/2 agree. Franchising Graham was a mistake, but I think they looked at it from the perspective that he has a very high % of FG made. No need to mess around with the kicking game (little did they realize that St. Louis was totally about to implode). Franchising a kicker is a bit crazy though but it's really not germaine to Housh. Franchising Housh would've been a big-time mistake - he was going to become a big-time distraction in the locker room IMO (I mean heck, lookit how much he's talked about the 'Nati without even being there). The signing of Coles I think was a reasonable plan be, though oddly it would seem that he's basically serving as a run blocker if anything which isn't exactly something to make fantasy fans swoon. It would've been harder for 2 to establish himself with Housh around I think. Coles did catch a really nice TD last week so maybe not all hope is lost just yet.-QG

 

[QuizGuy66]

Fortunately, I don't think Brown gets too involved in the coaching aspect of the game. I think it's Lewis's team. Maybe I'm jaded, being a Bengals fan since the Nixon administration. But I still don't trust the Bengals doing the right thing. Franchising Graham and letting Housh go was a mistake, and they overcompensated by giving Coles such a huge contract.Let's just say, I hope I'm wrong. OK?

another option would have been to trade ocho for a first rounder and more (the skins offered a first and possibly another pick.) then use the cash from ocho's salary to pay housh.

That offer was made BEFORE last season. A 7-9 team trading it's #1 receiver, even for that bounty wasn't the easy call people like to make it out to be. If there were any offers for Chad in this past offseason, they would've been for much less, maybe a 2nd or 3rd rounder and that would not have been worth it, especially with his attitude readjustment. I think that getting rid of Chad for Housh (in all that glorious hindsight) would've left us a weaker team. The best part about Caldwell's emergence is that it makes things a little less dire when Chad inevitably signs with the Pats when he's a free agent.-QG

 

[duaneok66]

Fortunately, I don't think Brown gets too involved in the coaching aspect of the game. I think it's Lewis's team.

Maybe I'm jaded, being a Bengals fan since the Nixon administration. But I still don't trust the Bengals doing the right thing. Franchising Graham and letting Housh go was a mistake, and they overcompensated by giving Coles such a huge contract.

Let's just say, I hope I'm wrong. OK?

another option would have been to trade ocho for a first rounder and more (the skins offered a first and possibly another pick.) then use the cash from ocho's salary to pay housh.

That offer was made BEFORE last season. A 7-9 team trading it's #1 receiver, even for that bounty wasn't the easy call people like to make it out to be. If there were any offers for Chad in this past offseason, they would've been for much less, maybe a 2nd or 3rd rounder and that would not have been worth it, especially with his attitude readjustment. I think that getting rid of Chad for Housh (in all that glorious hindsight) would've left us a weaker team. The best part about Caldwell's emergence is that it makes things a little less dire when Chad inevitably signs with the Pats when he's a free agent.

-QG

is that after this year or next??

and do you think Caldwell has the talent to be a #1????

 

[jacobo_moses]

Does Chris Henry have value this year or next?? I thought he looked solid in August. Now its caldwell.

 

[cvnpoka]

there are few no 1's worth a first rounder. #####ing and moaning (and aging) ocho, with ankle spurs and a bad shoulder is a fist pump call. its speculation tho, perhaps the skins did not actually offer that. if they did, its horrible not to accept it.

as for franchising graham, that was, as usual, a monetary decision. franchising a kicker is cheap. much much cheaper than franchising a wr or many other positions.