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Andy Reid on Eagles' Passing Game (1 Viewer)

JaxBill

Footballguy
Nothing really startling but it's worth a mention in light of Moulds going to Houston.

Q: How would you categorize your wide receiver situation without T.O.?

A: I've never really said who's the No. 1 or who's the No. 2. I've always just said spread the ball around. That makes it tough on the defense. As long as you have guys who can run routes and catch the football, we're OK. You balance it out with the run game and go play.

It has a chance to be a strong corps. We added Jabar Gaffney, who has a chance to be a good player in this offense. Todd Pinkston's coming back and he's a good football player. You add Greg Lewis in there, and Reggie Brown and it's a pretty decent group.

Q: What's the team's interest in Buffalo's Eric Moulds?

A: We've looked at him. We're kind of going through that evaluation process right now.

Q: Do you need a star receiver to win?

A: I don't think you have to have the superstar. They don't have to be great players. They can be good players and do the things that are asked from them in the offense.

Q: Do you think Reggie Brown can be your top receiver?

A: He did a nice job for us. He runs great routes. After a bit there, we just put him at one spot and let him concentrate on that. He improved throughout the season. He's tough, he's fast and he's quick. He has to continue to catch Donovan [McNabb]'s football a lot this off-season.

Q: What did you like about Gaffney?

A: One thing that jumps out at you when you look at his tapes is he doesn't drop the ball. Great hands and runs very good routes. In this offense, those things go a long way. He has a good feel for the safety. We're going to use him a lot as the inside [slot] receiver in three-receiver sets. He wasn't afraid to cross the middle with linebackers and safeties.
http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/sports/14218010.htm(free, but registration required)

 

Banger

Footballguy
Nothing really startling but it's worth a mention in light of Moulds going to Houston.

Q: How would you categorize your wide receiver situation without T.O.?

A: I've never really said who's the No. 1 or who's the No. 2. I've always just said spread the ball around. That makes it tough on the defense. As long as you have guys who can run routes and catch the football, we're OK. You balance it out with the run game and go play.

It has a chance to be a strong corps. We added Jabar Gaffney, who has a chance to be a good player in this offense. Todd Pinkston's coming back and he's a good football player. You add Greg Lewis in there, and Reggie Brown and it's a pretty decent group.

Q: What's the team's interest in Buffalo's Eric Moulds?

A: We've looked at him. We're kind of going through that evaluation process right now.

Q: Do you need a star receiver to win?

A: I don't think you have to have the superstar. They don't have to be great players. They can be good players and do the things that are asked from them in the offense.

Q: Do you think Reggie Brown can be your top receiver?

A: He did a nice job for us. He runs great routes. After a bit there, we just put him at one spot and let him concentrate on that. He improved throughout the season. He's tough, he's fast and he's quick. He has to continue to catch Donovan [McNabb]'s football a lot this off-season.

Q: What did you like about Gaffney?

A: One thing that jumps out at you when you look at his tapes is he doesn't drop the ball. Great hands and runs very good routes. In this offense, those things go a long way. He has a good feel for the safety. We're going to use him a lot as the inside [slot] receiver in three-receiver sets. He wasn't afraid to cross the middle with linebackers and safeties.
http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/sports/14218010.htm(free, but registration required)
Reid hasn't learned from his past mistakes and looks to be going down the same route. The problem is that everyone in the division has improved except the 6-10 Eagles. Hey at least they didn't overpay for anyone this offseason and will have tons of cap room again....
 

BlueOnion

Footballguy
Nothing really startling but it's worth a mention in light of Moulds going to Houston.

Q: How would you categorize your wide receiver situation without T.O.?

A: I've never really said who's the No. 1 or who's the No. 2. I've always just said spread the ball around. That makes it tough on the defense. As long as you have guys who can run routes and catch the football, we're OK. You balance it out with the run game and go play.

It has a chance to be a strong corps. We added Jabar Gaffney, who has a chance to be a good player in this offense. Todd Pinkston's coming back and he's a good football player. You add Greg Lewis in there, and Reggie Brown and it's a pretty decent group.

Q: What's the team's interest in Buffalo's Eric Moulds?

A: We've looked at him. We're kind of going through that evaluation process right now.

Q: Do you need a star receiver to win?

undefined

Q: Do you think Reggie Brown can be your top receiver?

A: He did a nice job for us. He runs great routes. After a bit there, we just put him at one spot and let him concentrate on that. He improved throughout the season. He's tough, he's fast and he's quick. He has to continue to catch Donovan [McNabb]'s football a lot this off-season.

Q: What did you like about Gaffney?

A: One thing that jumps out at you when you look at his tapes is he doesn't drop the ball. Great hands and runs very good routes. In this offense, those things go a long way. He has a good feel for the safety. We're going to use him a lot as the inside [slot] receiver in three-receiver sets. He wasn't afraid to cross the middle with linebackers and safeties.
http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/sports/14218010.htm(free, but registration required)
Reid hasn't learned from his past mistakes and looks to be going down the same route. The problem is that everyone in the division has improved except the 6-10 Eagles. Hey at least they didn't overpay for anyone this offseason and will have tons of cap room again....
So you think the Eagles should have offered Gaffney 14 million a year? :confused:
 

Banger

Footballguy
Nothing really startling but it's worth a mention in light of Moulds going to Houston.

Q: How would you categorize your wide receiver situation without T.O.?

A: I've never really said who's the No. 1 or who's the No. 2. I've always just said spread the ball around. That makes it tough on the defense. As long as you have guys who can run routes and catch the football, we're OK. You balance it out with the run game and go play.

It has a chance to be a strong corps. We added Jabar Gaffney, who has a chance to be a good player in this offense. Todd Pinkston's coming back and he's a good football player. You add Greg Lewis in there, and Reggie Brown and it's a pretty decent group.

Q: What's the team's interest in Buffalo's Eric Moulds?

A: We've looked at him. We're kind of going through that evaluation process right now.

Q: Do you need a star receiver to win?

undefined

Q: Do you think Reggie Brown can be your top receiver?

A: He did a nice job for us. He runs great routes. After a bit there, we just put him at one spot and let him concentrate on that. He improved throughout the season. He's tough, he's fast and he's quick. He has to continue to catch Donovan [McNabb]'s football a lot this off-season.

Q: What did you like about Gaffney?

A: One thing that jumps out at you when you look at his tapes is he doesn't drop the ball. Great hands and runs very good routes. In this offense, those things go a long way. He has a good feel for the safety. We're going to use him a lot as the inside [slot] receiver in three-receiver sets. He wasn't afraid to cross the middle with linebackers and safeties.
http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/sports/14218010.htm(free, but registration required)
Reid hasn't learned from his past mistakes and looks to be going down the same route. The problem is that everyone in the division has improved except the 6-10 Eagles. Hey at least they didn't overpay for anyone this offseason and will have tons of cap room again....
So you think the Eagles should have offered Gaffney 14 million a year? :confused:
No I think that they should have targetted a WR that could actually improve their offense instead of loading up on cheap, decent #3-#4 type wr's. Prior to TO they were shut down in the playoffs in part due to their lack of talent at the WR position and while this crew is marginally better than those wr's their competition within the division has risen dramatically.
 

mbuehner

Footballguy
We added Jabar Gaffney, who has a chance to be a good player in this offense. Todd Pinkston's coming back and he's a good football player. You add Greg Lewis in there, and Reggie Brown and it's a pretty decent group.
:banned: :wall:
 

BlueOnion

Footballguy
No I think that they should have targetted a WR that could actually improve their offense instead of loading up on cheap, decent #3-#4 type wr's. Prior to TO they were shut down in the playoffs in part due to their lack of talent at the WR position and while this crew is marginally better than those wr's their competition within the division has risen dramatically.
Do you have any particular wide receivers in mind from this recent offseason?FYI - T.O. has never played in a playoff game wearing the Eagles uniform.

 

Boston

Footballguy
The issue I see with the Eagles is that they are 100% committed to the passing game. Probably more than any other team. Therefore their WR corps talent level doesn't really match the style they play. If they were a more ground oriented team than I think their WRs would be fine. There's some decent players there and the young ones have potential to get better. Yet, if you're going the aerial circus route than having a big time group of wideouts would seem to make more sense. I just don't see the system being in sync with the talent. They'll get by but they're not scaring anybody.

 
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Jason Wood

Zoo York
No I think that they should have targetted a WR that could actually improve their offense instead of loading up on cheap, decent #3-#4 type wr's.  Prior to TO they were shut down in the playoffs in part due to their lack of talent at the WR position and while this crew is marginally better than those wr's their competition within the division has risen dramatically.
Do you have any particular wide receivers in mind from this recent offseason?FYI - T.O. has never played in a playoff game wearing the Eagles uniform.
His 100-yard Super Bowl performance didn't count :confused:
 

Banger

Footballguy
No I think that they should have targetted a WR that could actually improve their offense instead of loading up on cheap, decent #3-#4 type wr's.  Prior to TO they were shut down in the playoffs in part due to their lack of talent at the WR position and while this crew is marginally better than those wr's their competition within the division has risen dramatically.
Do you have any particular wide receivers in mind from this recent offseason?FYI - T.O. has never played in a playoff game wearing the Eagles uniform.
Just off the top of my head all of these would be an improvement over probably Gaffney/Brown:Koren Robinson

A. Bryant

ARE

Keyshawn

Burleson

Givens

J. Jerivicious

I am sure that I am missing a few but all these guys changed teams and the Eagles got Gaffney.

 

Jason Wood

Zoo York
No I think that they should have targetted a WR that could actually improve their offense instead of loading up on cheap, decent #3-#4 type wr's.  Prior to TO they were shut down in the playoffs in part due to their lack of talent at the WR position and while this crew is marginally better than those wr's their competition within the division has risen dramatically.
Do you have any particular wide receivers in mind from this recent offseason?FYI - T.O. has never played in a playoff game wearing the Eagles uniform.
Just off the top of my head all of these would be an improvement over probably Gaffney/Brown:Koren Robinson

A. Bryant

ARE

Keyshawn

Burleson

Givens

J. Jerivicious

I am sure that I am missing a few but all these guys changed teams and the Eagles got Gaffney.
That's :goodposting: Personally I would've loved bringing in Keyshawn or Jurevicius. Jurevicius played lights out for Seattle last year, and the 'hawks offensive packages are the most similar to Reid's in the league.

 

wannabee

Footballguy
No I think that they should have targetted a WR that could actually improve their offense instead of loading up on cheap, decent #3-#4 type wr's.  Prior to TO they were shut down in the playoffs in part due to their lack of talent at the WR position and while this crew is marginally better than those wr's their competition within the division has risen dramatically.
Do you have any particular wide receivers in mind from this recent offseason?FYI - T.O. has never played in a playoff game wearing the Eagles uniform.
Just off the top of my head all of these would be an improvement over probably Gaffney/Brown:Koren Robinson

A. Bryant

ARE

Keyshawn

Burleson

Givens

J. Jerivicious

I am sure that I am missing a few but all these guys changed teams and the Eagles got Gaffney.
That's :goodposting: Personally I would've loved bringing in Keyshawn or Jurevicius. Jurevicius played lights out for Seattle last year, and the 'hawks offensive packages are the most similar to Reid's in the league.
The Eagles did re-sign McCants ......
 

scratcher

Footballguy
Personally, I like the addition of Gaffney for cheap. I think it's a bargain. However, I do agree they need a proven veteran to coach the young WRs. But even if we don't add one I still think our chances of getting to the playoffs are fine. Donovan's been doing it himself for years now and we made it through the playoffs without a #1 on a Superbowl run. I'm not worried but I wouldn't argue against a few more key additions.

 

JaxBill

Footballguy
No I think that they should have targetted a WR that could actually improve their offense instead of loading up on cheap, decent #3-#4 type wr's.  Prior to TO they were shut down in the playoffs in part due to their lack of talent at the WR position and while this crew is marginally better than those wr's their competition within the division has risen dramatically.
Do you have any particular wide receivers in mind from this recent offseason?FYI - T.O. has never played in a playoff game wearing the Eagles uniform.
Just off the top of my head all of these would be an improvement over probably Gaffney/Brown:Koren Robinson

A. Bryant

ARE

Keyshawn

Burleson

Givens

J. Jerivicious

I am sure that I am missing a few but all these guys changed teams and the Eagles got Gaffney.
That's :goodposting: Personally I would've loved bringing in Keyshawn or Jurevicius. Jurevicius played lights out for Seattle last year, and the 'hawks offensive packages are the most similar to Reid's in the league.
I've never thought of Gaffney as a possession receiver but Reid's comments made me go look at the target data and compare it to Jurevicius.After Week 16, Jurevicius had a much higher YPC but their REC % was nearly identical.

Gaffney - 85 targets, 54 receptions, 484 recv yds, 63.5% recv pct, 9.0 Ypc

Jurevicius - 81, 53, 65.4, 684, 12.9

http://footballguys.com/05week17wrtargets.php

 

Banger

Footballguy
Personally, I like the addition of Gaffney for cheap. I think it's a bargain. However, I do agree they need a proven veteran to coach the young WRs. But even if we don't add one I still think our chances of getting to the playoffs are fine. Donovan's been doing it himself for years now and we made it through the playoffs without a #1 on a Superbowl run. I'm not worried but I wouldn't argue against a few more key additions.
Ya, it's a bargain but you get what you pay for. He wouldn't be a bad addition if your team already had some good proven wr's but when you expect him to be a #1/#2 and face the leagues top corners its something he hasn't proven he can do. Yes the Eagles had rag tag wr corps in the past and had some playoff success but eventually it proved to be their undoing thus the TO signing. Take a look at the WR corps in the NFL East and tell me where the Eagles rank:

Plax/Toomer/Shockey

TO/Glenn/Witten

ARE/Llyod/Moss/Cooley

Brown/Gaffney/Smith

I would say that the only WR Brown/Gaffney may be better than is Toomer (maybe) and Smith is not better than any of the other TE's (may be as good as Cooley).

RB wise you have Portis/JJ/Tiki vs. Westy. Westbrook is probably only better than JJ so the Eagles are really going to have to rely on McNabb to even give them a chance IMO.

 

Big Score

Footballguy
From most of the observations here, it seems that the consensus is that Reggie Brown will not develope much, or just isn't going to be that good of a NFL WR?

Maybe I'm reading the posts wrong?

 

Kleck.

Footballguy
From most of the observations here, it seems that the consensus is that Reggie Brown will not develope much, or just isn't going to be that good of a NFL WR?

Maybe I'm reading the posts wrong?
That's what I'm getting too.There are a couple names on the list above that could be better starters than Brown, but I'm not sure any are that much better that Phily should have spent the money on them.

I don't see this group now as week as when James Thrash was running the show. I must be too high on Reggie Brown.

 

TheFanatic

Footballguy
We added Jabar Gaffney, who has a chance to be a good player in this offense. Todd Pinkston's coming back and he's a good football player. You add Greg Lewis in there, and Reggie Brown and it's a pretty decent group.
:banned: :wall:
This is the most telling statement to me. All he can say is that they are a pretty decent group. I realize you don't want to go out and say that these guys are all world because you want to keep them motivated, but when all the coach can say about you is that you are pretty decent, it worries me....
 

Banger

Footballguy
From most of the observations here, it seems that the consensus is that Reggie Brown will not develope much, or just isn't going to be that good of a NFL WR?

Maybe I'm reading the posts wrong?
I don't know if he will or won't, he did have some decent games last year and he may turn out to be a fine wr. If I were an Eagle fan I would feel much better as him being my #2 and growing into the position as opposed to be annointed the #1 and thrown to the fire. If he fails there's no one proven that can pick up the slack. I just also think it's a big risk, if you want to win now, to rely on a guy who could be good as your #1 wr instead of going out and getting a player who you know is good (especially when you have the resources to do so).
 
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BlueOnion

Footballguy
I just also think it's a big risk, if you want to win now...
I don't think the Eagles run their organization to 'win now'. Instead they seem to be focused on winning every year. I could be wrong.

 

mbuehner

Footballguy
Come on guys, Todd Pinkston remains the most accomplished reciever on this team. Todd Pinkston. Lets not kid ourselves. Eric Moulds or Isaac Bruce on their worst day crush anyone on this roster. Not one of these guys has proven to be a consistant playmaker. When your #1 WR is (at best) your 4th red zone option, you have a problem.

I think the Eagles are in serious trouble. Every team in the NFC has had years to figure out this offense, because it has barely evolved at all. Everyone in the division has upgraded, and they each have Philly directly in their crosshairs. If you can shut down Westbrook catching the ball you can beat the eagles, everyone knows that now. LJ can hurt you but not kill you. McNabb doesnt use his feet anymore. This team desperately needs some new factor to make big plays for them, and Jabar Gaffney is not The Answer.

 

Banger

Footballguy
I just also think it's a big risk, if you want to win now...
I don't think the Eagles run their organization to 'win now'. Instead they seem to be focused on winning every year. I could be wrong.
Good point but their main cog, McNabb, isn't getting younger and the window may be closing especially with Manning developing up the Turnpike. At some point IMO you have to take a shot and maybe outbid someone to get your guy instead of taking that cheap guy with upside. I'm not suggesting they abandon everything and overpay for ARE but bringing in Keyshawn or quality wr like that would definitely make them more competitive. What do I know though, the Eagles have managed their cap very well with that model over the past 5 years and continued to win games. I just think the environment in the NFC East has changed dramatically from 2-3 years ago and sometimes you have to tweak your model.

 

delusional

Footballguy
Like most philadelphia teams, they think they can get to the dance with mediocre players.

I am sorry but if we didn't have TO. That superbowl would have been a blow out. They are content with winning by letting other teams mess up and not winning by just being better.

 

Mcnabbfan

Footballguy
One point nobody has made is the Defense isn't what it used to be. In the past when the eagles were starting Thrash,Pinkston, or any other 3rd rate receiver, the Defense was carrying the team. Anybody can win when your defense is giving up roughly 14 points a game but when that number jumps, you need playmakers in the passing game. I am very concerned abou the upcoming year. I don't tihnk Mcnabb is the playmaker he was earlier in his career when he could run all over the field. In the last couple of years, he has looked a step slower and less likely to run. Bottom line, the Defense will dictate what kind of season the Eagles have, regardless of what they add or lose on the offensive side of the ball.

 

scratcher

Footballguy
One point nobody has made is the Defense isn't what it used to be. In the past when the eagles were starting Thrash,Pinkston, or any other 3rd rate receiver, the Defense was carrying the team. Anybody can win when your defense is giving up roughly 14 points a game but when that number jumps, you need playmakers in the passing game. I am very concerned abou the upcoming year. I don't tihnk Mcnabb is the playmaker he was earlier in his career when he could run all over the field. In the last couple of years, he has looked a step slower and less likely to run. Bottom line, the Defense will dictate what kind of season the Eagles have, regardless of what they add or lose on the offensive side of the ball.
:goodposting: I'm feeling OK about the defense for this upcoming year if we just add a DT alongside Patterson in the draft. The secondary's just fine and hopefully Howard can help put some pressure on the QB and open up some opportunities for Kearse as well. A big DT to stop the run and maybe another OLB and Eagles' D would be among the elite of the NFC.

 

Wreckincrew

Footballguy
No I think that they should have targetted a WR that could actually improve their offense instead of loading up on cheap, decent #3-#4 type wr's.  Prior to TO they were shut down in the playoffs in part due to their lack of talent at the WR position and while this crew is marginally better than those wr's their competition within the division has risen dramatically.
Do you have any particular wide receivers in mind from this recent offseason?FYI - T.O. has never played in a playoff game wearing the Eagles uniform.
Just off the top of my head all of these would be an improvement over probably Gaffney/Brown:Koren Robinson

A. Bryant

ARE

Keyshawn

Burleson

Givens

J. Jerivicious

I am sure that I am missing a few but all these guys changed teams and the Eagles got Gaffney.
That's :goodposting: Personally I would've loved bringing in Keyshawn or Jurevicius. Jurevicius played lights out for Seattle last year, and the 'hawks offensive packages are the most similar to Reid's in the league.
:confused: The way the Seahawks use SA and the way the Eagles use BW couldn't be more different.

SA - 16 games

370 Att. - 1880 yds

15 rec - 78 yds

BW - 12 games

156 Att. - 617 yds

61 rec - 616 yds

 

Jason Wood

Zoo York
No I think that they should have targetted a WR that could actually improve their offense instead of loading up on cheap, decent #3-#4 type wr's.  Prior to TO they were shut down in the playoffs in part due to their lack of talent at the WR position and while this crew is marginally better than those wr's their competition within the division has risen dramatically.
Do you have any particular wide receivers in mind from this recent offseason?FYI - T.O. has never played in a playoff game wearing the Eagles uniform.
Just off the top of my head all of these would be an improvement over probably Gaffney/Brown:Koren Robinson

A. Bryant

ARE

Keyshawn

Burleson

Givens

J. Jerivicious

I am sure that I am missing a few but all these guys changed teams and the Eagles got Gaffney.
That's :goodposting: Personally I would've loved bringing in Keyshawn or Jurevicius. Jurevicius played lights out for Seattle last year, and the 'hawks offensive packages are the most similar to Reid's in the league.
:confused: The way the Seahawks use SA and the way the Eagles use BW couldn't be more different.

SA - 16 games

370 Att. - 1880 yds

15 rec - 78 yds

BW - 12 games

156 Att. - 617 yds

61 rec - 616 yds
Believe it or not, Andy has plenty of runs in his playbook, and Holmgren has plenty of RB screen passes. ;) I'm speaking to the actual formations, cadences, line calls, adjustments. VERY similar, which you would expect given Reid being a Holmgren protege.

 

houndirish

Footballguy
This whole "Eagles made the Super Bowl without T.O." is the most overused line by Eagles fans. The Eagles made the Super Bowl that season because the two opponents they faced in the playoffs (Minnesota and Atlanta) weren't half the teams Philly was. Both opponents had to travel to Philly. And as was astutely mentioned earlier, the Eagles had a solid defense bck then. If the Eagles had lost to either team, even without TO, I would've consider it a major upset. Simply put, the Eagles were the only Super Bowl caliber team in the NFC that season. TO put them in position to play at home in the playoffs but just because he missed their two games versus subpar competition doesn't mean his accomplishments should be brushed aside. I hate T.O. and it pains me to even defend him, but if the Eagles think they can win a Super Bowl with what they've got at WR while running their current pass happy offense they're kidding themselves. I'm not even convinced they can win the division, let alone a playoff game.

 

mbuehner

Footballguy
I haven't looked at the numbers yet, but I also have a sneaking suspicion the Eagles yards per rush has been sliding downwards for years. Now we all know they are a passing team, but at what point does not being able to pick up 3rd and 2 really rip the wheels off the cart? The dirty NFL secret has always been that the great passing teams of yore could run the ball surprisingly effectively when they had to.

 
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LTsharks

Footballguy
This whole "Eagles made the Super Bowl without T.O." is the most overused line by Eagles fans. The Eagles made the Super Bowl that season because the two opponents they faced in the playoffs (Minnesota and Atlanta) weren't half the teams Philly was. Both opponents had to travel to Philly. And as was astutely mentioned earlier, the Eagles had a solid defense bck then (year before last, no reason they can't be as good this year). If the Eagles had lost to either team, even without TO, I would've consider it a major upset. Simply put, the Eagles were the only Super Bowl caliber team in the NFC that season (how is that so different, there were what, 1 or 2 last year - SEA, CAR). TO put them in position to play at home in the playoffs (nfc was so bad and Eagles were so much better without TO, as stated above, but he is the reason they were playing at home? how can both statements be true?)but just because he missed their two games versus subpar competition doesn't mean his accomplishments should be brushed aside. I hate T.O. and it pains me to even defend him, but if the Eagles think they can win a Super Bowl with what they've got at WR while running their current pass happy offense they're kidding themselves. I'm not even convinced they can win the division, let alone a playoff game.
this thread is filled with comments like the above that just don't make any sense. a lot of people either don't like the eagles or don't understand what they are doing/have done.
 

zoonation

Footballguy
Personally, I like the addition of Gaffney for cheap.  I think it's a bargain.  However, I do agree they need a proven veteran to coach the young WRs.  But even if we don't add one I still think our chances of getting to the playoffs are fine.  Donovan's been doing it himself for years now and we made it through the playoffs without a #1 on a Superbowl run.  I'm not worried but I wouldn't argue against a few more key additions.
Ya, it's a bargain but you get what you pay for. He wouldn't be a bad addition if your team already had some good proven wr's but when you expect him to be a #1/#2 and face the leagues top corners its something he hasn't proven he can do. Yes the Eagles had rag tag wr corps in the past and had some playoff success but eventually it proved to be their undoing thus the TO signing. Take a look at the WR corps in the NFL East and tell me where the Eagles rank:

Plax/Toomer/Shockey

TO/Glenn/Witten

ARE/Llyod/Moss/Cooley

Brown/Gaffney/Smith

I would say that the only WR Brown/Gaffney may be better than is Toomer (maybe) and Smith is not better than any of the other TE's (may be as good as Cooley).

RB wise you have Portis/JJ/Tiki vs. Westy. Westbrook is probably only better than JJ so the Eagles are really going to have to rely on McNabb to even give them a chance IMO.
This is faulty analysis; if Witten and Lewis were in an armwrestling competition, then maybe...but this football, and a simple comparison of skill positions is but one out of a number of indicia for the strength of a team.Having said that, the Eagles are in serious trouble this year.

 

gman8343

What would Lemmy do?
This whole "Eagles made the Super Bowl without T.O." is the most overused line by Eagles fans.  The Eagles made the Super Bowl that season because the two opponents they faced in the playoffs (Minnesota and Atlanta) weren't half the teams Philly was.  Both opponents had to travel to Philly.  And as was astutely mentioned earlier, the Eagles had a solid defense bck then.  If the Eagles had lost to either team, even without TO, I would've consider it a major upset.  Simply put, the Eagles were the only Super Bowl caliber team in the NFC that season.  TO put them in position to play at home in the playoffs but just because he missed their two games versus subpar competition doesn't mean his accomplishments should be brushed aside.  I hate T.O. and it pains me to even defend him, but if the Eagles think they can win a Super Bowl with what they've got at WR while running their current pass happy offense they're kidding themselves.  I'm not even convinced they can win the division, let alone a playoff game.
i just don't understand all the people down talking the eagles. as long as they improve the pass rush ( i think they will ) and # 5 is healthy, they are a force to be reckoned with. end of story.
But can they win a SB with their WRs? If not, nothing else matters, because they've had numerous chances to upgrade and chose not to.
 

Jason Wood

Zoo York
This whole "Eagles made the Super Bowl without T.O." is the most overused line by Eagles fans.  The Eagles made the Super Bowl that season because the two opponents they faced in the playoffs (Minnesota and Atlanta) weren't half the teams Philly was.  Both opponents had to travel to Philly.  And as was astutely mentioned earlier, the Eagles had a solid defense bck then.  If the Eagles had lost to either team, even without TO, I would've consider it a major upset.  Simply put, the Eagles were the only Super Bowl caliber team in the NFC that season.  TO put them in position to play at home in the playoffs but just because he missed their two games versus subpar competition doesn't mean his accomplishments should be brushed aside.  I hate T.O. and it pains me to even defend him, but if the Eagles think they can win a Super Bowl with what they've got at WR while running their current pass happy offense they're kidding themselves.  I'm not even convinced they can win the division, let alone a playoff game.
i just don't understand all the people down talking the eagles. as long as they improve the pass rush ( i think they will ) and # 5 is healthy, they are a force to be reckoned with. end of story.
But can they win a SB with their WRs? If not, nothing else matters, because they've had numerous chances to upgrade and chose not to.
Can they? It's certainly possible. Will they? Much harder to believe.
 

houndirish

Footballguy
This whole "Eagles made the Super Bowl without T.O." is the most overused line by Eagles fans.  The Eagles made the Super Bowl that season because the two opponents they faced in the playoffs (Minnesota and Atlanta) weren't half the teams Philly was.  Both opponents had to travel to Philly.  And as was astutely mentioned earlier, the Eagles had a solid defense bck then (year before last, no reason they can't be as good this year).  If the Eagles had lost to either team, even without TO, I would've consider it a major upset.  Simply put, the Eagles were the only Super Bowl caliber team in the NFC that season (how is that so different, there were what, 1 or 2 last year - SEA, CAR).  TO put them in position to play at home in the playoffs (nfc was so bad and Eagles were so much better without TO, as stated above, but he is the reason they were playing at home?  how can both statements be true?)but just because he missed their two games versus subpar competition doesn't mean his accomplishments should be brushed aside.  I hate T.O. and it pains me to even defend him, but if the Eagles think they can win a Super Bowl with what they've got at WR while running their current pass happy offense they're kidding themselves.  I'm not even convinced they can win the division, let alone a playoff game.
this thread is filled with comments like the above that just don't make any sense. a lot of people either don't like the eagles or don't understand what they are doing/have done.
You're right ... I can't stand the Eagles, but I do have a ton of respect for them. You say there's no reason the D can't be as good as it was 2 years ago. Tell me why it will? The D performed poorly before the injuries piled up last year. What's the reason for that? At this point I'd rank the Eagles, at best, 3rd in the division defensively. I think the Cowboys and Redskins have them beat and I'm not even convinced Philly can field a better unit than the Giants. NY is much better up front. The Eagles have the better secondary. Both teams have a solid middle linebacker but not much on the outsides. Where is this dominating unit you're referring to?

The difference the Eagles face moving forward is the rest of the division are no longer patsies. Nobody's going to come out of the NFC East with a 13-3 record.

I completely disagree with your assessment that last years NFC playoff picture mirrored the previous year. I think just about any one of the NFC teams could've advanced to the Super Bowl last year. The prior season Philly would've had to stop themselves.

 

mbuehner

Footballguy
Eagles team rushing, yards per carry by year:

2003 4.8 y/c

2004 4.4y/c

2005 3.9 y/c

NFL.com team stats only go back to 03. Matchbook scribbling it looks like 2002 was about 4.2 and 2001 4.0 but dont take those for gospel. Anyway the Eagles have been losing almost half a yard per carry the last 3 years. Unless this trend reverses you might expect about 3.5 yards a carry this year. Thats pretty bad. Thats down in the 5 worst in the league bad.

 

redman

Footballguy
Reid hasn't learned from his past mistakes and looks to be going down the same route. The problem is that everyone in the division has improved except the 6-10 Eagles. Hey at least they didn't overpay for anyone this offseason and will have tons of cap room again....
I agree, and it's odd too. Everywhere he's been in football, which BTW happen to be the teams that best used and developed the WCO (Bill Walsh's 49'ers and Holmgren's Packers) have had a clear primary target at WR who, if not a great player like Jerry Rice, was at least a very good player for the years that the team relied upon him, e.g. Robert Brooks and Antonio Freeman in Green Bay. Moreover, Reid's own offense hasn't even remotely performed as well as it did with TO in the lineup as the clear primary target.

I just don't understand what he's doing.

 

Jeff Pasquino

Footballguy
The Eagles went in to the 2006 offseason need to sure up the O-line depth, D-line inside, LB, WR and RB depth. Oh yeah, a backup QB too.

How have they done?

QB backup - Garcia. Works for me. (I'd have preferred slightly younger, but I have bigger fish to fry).

RB depth - none. Westbrook, Moats, Buckhalter(?). Westbrook / Moats are the same style, and Westy has slight durability issues. They still need a big, between the tackles runner.

WR (and TE) - Jabar Gaffney. Gaffney is a modestly good 2/3 option, but not the guy that can step up and fill the 2 position with a solid talent.

Matt Schobel. meh.

LB - Shawn Barber. Certainly a help, but they need more.

D-Line. Darren Howard (DE). They needed tackles more than ends. Counting on some players to stay healthy, again.

O-Line. Runyan re-signed. Next to nothing done. Failed to get LeCharles Bentley - OL (CLE) so the rest just failed miserably.

I'm just capturing things. I may go back and grade these, but I'm completely unimpressed.

 

LTsharks

Footballguy
You're right ... I can't stand the Eagles, but I do have a ton of respect for them.

You say there's no reason the D can't be as good as it was 2 years ago. Tell me why it will? The D performed poorly before the injuries piled up last year. What's the reason for that? At this point I'd rank the Eagles, at best, 3rd in the division defensively. I think the Cowboys and Redskins have them beat and I'm not even convinced Philly can field a better unit than the Giants. NY is much better up front. The Eagles have the better secondary. Both teams have a solid middle linebacker but not much on the outsides. Where is this dominating unit you're referring to?

The difference the Eagles face moving forward is the rest of the division are no longer patsies. Nobody's going to come out of the NFC East with a 13-3 record.

I completely disagree with your assessment that last years NFC playoff picture mirrored the previous year. I think just about any one of the NFC teams could've advanced to the Super Bowl last year. The prior season Philly would've had to stop themselves.
We could go back and forth all day since I am an Eagles fan and you can't stand them it could be hard to remove all of that bias for both of us. For example, your first post mentions the D as solid in '04 but then your reply to me asks me to defend them as dominant. They have added D line and will add more, how much will largely influence my opinion of the D going forward this year. The LB just isn't as big of a deal as people want it to be, and I feel very comfortable with the secondary. Also, when others in this thread look at offenses, they are forgetting that McNabb is by far the top QB in the division.I completely disagree with your assessment that last years NFC playoff teams were anything special beyond SEA and CAR. No way WAS or CHI were really any better then the runner ups from the years before. If your point that anyone could have advanced means that there wasn't a team as good as the Eagles from '04, then I completely agree.

Anyway, I got a sense of Eagles bashing (not just from you) and it made me respond for some reason. In the end, as a fan, I really would have liked / would like to see them upgrade the WR position. I don't like the idea of hoping someone develops, but I do believe it is possible. They will be right there for the division even if they don't do anything. A true superbowl run, tougher to see at this moment, but there is a lot of offseason left.

 
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Banger

Footballguy
Personally, I like the addition of Gaffney for cheap.  I think it's a bargain.  However, I do agree they need a proven veteran to coach the young WRs.  But even if we don't add one I still think our chances of getting to the playoffs are fine.  Donovan's been doing it himself for years now and we made it through the playoffs without a #1 on a Superbowl run.  I'm not worried but I wouldn't argue against a few more key additions.
Ya, it's a bargain but you get what you pay for. He wouldn't be a bad addition if your team already had some good proven wr's but when you expect him to be a #1/#2 and face the leagues top corners its something he hasn't proven he can do. Yes the Eagles had rag tag wr corps in the past and had some playoff success but eventually it proved to be their undoing thus the TO signing. Take a look at the WR corps in the NFL East and tell me where the Eagles rank:

Plax/Toomer/Shockey

TO/Glenn/Witten

ARE/Llyod/Moss/Cooley

Brown/Gaffney/Smith

I would say that the only WR Brown/Gaffney may be better than is Toomer (maybe) and Smith is not better than any of the other TE's (may be as good as Cooley).

RB wise you have Portis/JJ/Tiki vs. Westy. Westbrook is probably only better than JJ so the Eagles are really going to have to rely on McNabb to even give them a chance IMO.
This is faulty analysis; if Witten and Lewis were in an armwrestling competition, then maybe...but this football, and a simple comparison of skill positions is but one out of a number of indicia for the strength of a team.Having said that, the Eagles are in serious trouble this year.
I was just looking at the skill positions on the offensive side of the ball in the NFC East and how the Eagles stacked up not the strength of the team. I totally agree with the poster that said the Eagles will go as far as their defense will take them. That being said, free agency isn't done, the draft hasn't occurred so it's still relatively early but the Eagles haven't made any substantive improvements (besides McNabb getting healthy) that would lead me to believe that this year will be much better than last year.

 

pheagles

Footballguy
We can talk all day about the skill positions but we should all know by now that Reid believes that you win and lose in the trenches, and rightfully so IMO. They missed on Bentley so they resigned Runyan and will leave Andrews and the other young guys they like on the interior, hoping they will give them what they need. They got Howard - a typical Eagle pickup since he was cheap coming off of a down year - to help the Dline. Is it enough??? No, but by the start of the season, they will add more to the lines, and other need positions. They have plenty of draft picks, including a high one for a change thanks to last years stink bomb. And whatever they don't find there, they will look for on the scrap heap of Free Agency.

Will it be enough? The question that no one can EVER answer - for this team or almost any other - is how will the lines play. Can the Oline open holes and pass block? Can the Dlines pressure the QB and stop the run? The answer to those questions is much less clear than comparing the "skill position" players, and much more important.

I remain pessimistically optimistic like the true Eagles fan I am.

 

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