Annonymous exposes Steubenville Rape Case (2 Viewers)

[General Malaise]

How is the victim holding up? Is she okay? Man, I can't imagine what her life has been like. Poor girl. What must her family be going through?

 

[Charlie Frown]

It's a shame these kids now have a record because some girl is afraid to be called a slut in school. We all know what happens at these parties and she had to come up with an excuse once the pictures starting making the rounds.

Easily an entry for the worst post of the year....

He is a minor league troll. No way he wins.

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

According to NPR coverage (why does anyone get news anywhere else is baffling to me) whether or not they have to register as sex offenders is up to the judge upon the completion of their sentences.

I wouldn't trust any media account. I can't find one account that actually lists the charges, so it's hard for me to tell whether the judge has any discretion at all (he doesn't as I read the relevant statute, but that depends on me being right about the age of the assailants when the offense occurred).

 

[T Bell]

Candy Crowley has got to be kidding. Going on and on about the poor boys and their ruined lives without so much as a mention of the girl after the verdicts. Yeah those poor rapists. Someone should get fired.

Sacramento Bob?

Can he be fired?

Pretty sure now that he's Candy in disguise. And that's one big disguise.

Is he the head or the tail part?

 

[T Bell]

Were the boys drunk?

Would this have mattered if so?

And I say this having not really followed this case, but I hear about a "drunken crazy party" and a plainly drunken girl, but were these boys lit up too?

I've been drunk lots of times. Even at my drunkest, I'm aware that raping somebody is wrong. Being drunk isn't an excuse.

True confession, I've never been drunk or done a drug in my life. I truly can't relate to this, thankfully, in anyway.

But that being said...

Why is the girls drunken state so relevant to this state of affairs whereas the boys potential drunken status would not be?

Not absolving, just outside and independent. Why does it matter if the girl was drunk if it doesn't matter if the boys were drunk? It would seem a universal byproduct of intoxication is impaired judgement.

And this is in no way absolving the boys, I'm just wondering to what degree, we can assign any responsibility to the girl as a hypothetical.

How about none? It doesn't matter how much she drank, it doesn't matter what she wore. What matters is that these "people" carried her from party to party and raped her repeatedly.

As a matter of law, she has no responsibility.As a matter of being a responsible female and knowing that, whatever the law says, there are still males out there who act like cavemen around vulnerable females, hers is a hard lesson. She didn't "ask for it", but she appears to have put herself into an extremely vulnerable position. (The caveat here is if someone slipped her a Mickey, which I'm not sure of.)

 

[NCCommish]

Were the boys drunk?

Would this have mattered if so?

And I say this having not really followed this case, but I hear about a "drunken crazy party" and a plainly drunken girl, but were these boys lit up too?

I've been drunk lots of times. Even at my drunkest, I'm aware that raping somebody is wrong. Being drunk isn't an excuse.

True confession, I've never been drunk or done a drug in my life. I truly can't relate to this, thankfully, in anyway.

But that being said...

Why is the girls drunken state so relevant to this state of affairs whereas the boys potential drunken status would not be?

Not absolving, just outside and independent. Why does it matter if the girl was drunk if it doesn't matter if the boys were drunk? It would seem a universal byproduct of intoxication is impaired judgement.

And this is in no way absolving the boys, I'm just wondering to what degree, we can assign any responsibility to the girl as a hypothetical.

How about none? It doesn't matter how much she drank, it doesn't matter what she wore. What matters is that these "people" carried her from party to party and raped her repeatedly.

As a matter of law, she has no responsibility.As a matter of being a responsible female and knowing that, whatever the law says, there are still males out there who act like cavemen around vulnerable females, hers is a hard lesson. She didn't "ask for it", but she appears to have put herself into an extremely vulnerable position. (The caveat here is if someone slipped her a Mickey, which I'm not sure of.)

The prevailing theory is they did. Based on her memory loss probably in her first drink. Can't prove it though as it was too late for toxicology once she reported it.

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

There are cases where the inebriated state of both parties make the question of consent a tricky one. This does not appear to be one of those cases.

 

[T Bell]

Were the boys drunk?

Would this have mattered if so?

And I say this having not really followed this case, but I hear about a "drunken crazy party" and a plainly drunken girl, but were these boys lit up too?

I've been drunk lots of times. Even at my drunkest, I'm aware that raping somebody is wrong. Being drunk isn't an excuse.

True confession, I've never been drunk or done a drug in my life. I truly can't relate to this, thankfully, in anyway.

But that being said...

Why is the girls drunken state so relevant to this state of affairs whereas the boys potential drunken status would not be?

Not absolving, just outside and independent. Why does it matter if the girl was drunk if it doesn't matter if the boys were drunk? It would seem a universal byproduct of intoxication is impaired judgement.

And this is in no way absolving the boys, I'm just wondering to what degree, we can assign any responsibility to the girl as a hypothetical.

How about none? It doesn't matter how much she drank, it doesn't matter what she wore. What matters is that these "people" carried her from party to party and raped her repeatedly.

As a matter of law, she has no responsibility.As a matter of being a responsible female and knowing that, whatever the law says, there are still males out there who act like cavemen around vulnerable females, hers is a hard lesson. She didn't "ask for it", but she appears to have put herself into an extremely vulnerable position. (The caveat here is if someone slipped her a Mickey, which I'm not sure of.)

The prevailing theory is they did. Based on her memory loss probably in her first drink. Can't prove it though as it was too late for toxicology once she reported it.

Fair enough. Then she's exonerated on all levels in my view and these guys are maggots (even more than I already thought they were).

 

[Leroy Hoard]

It's a shame these kids now have a record because some girl is afraid to be called a slut in school. We all know what happens at these parties and she had to come up with an excuse once the pictures starting making the rounds.

Easily an entry for the worst post of the year....

He is a minor league troll. No way he wins.

But he still might get a high seed in the West Regional.

 

[Mister Martie]

Were the boys drunk?

Would this have mattered if so?

And I say this having not really followed this case, but I hear about a "drunken crazy party" and a plainly drunken girl, but were these boys lit up too?

I've been drunk lots of times. Even at my drunkest, I'm aware that raping somebody is wrong. Being drunk isn't an excuse.

True confession, I've never been drunk or done a drug in my life. I truly can't relate to this, thankfully, in anyway.

But that being said...

Why is the girls drunken state so relevant to this state of affairs whereas the boys potential drunken status would not be?

Not absolving, just outside and independent. Why does it matter if the girl was drunk if it doesn't matter if the boys were drunk? It would seem a universal byproduct of intoxication is impaired judgement.

And this is in no way absolving the boys, I'm just wondering to what degree, we can assign any responsibility to the girl as a hypothetical.

How about none? It doesn't matter how much she drank, it doesn't matter what she wore. What matters is that these "people" carried her from party to party and raped her repeatedly.

As a matter of law, she has no responsibility.As a matter of being a responsible female and knowing that, whatever the law says, there are still males out there who act like cavemen around vulnerable females, hers is a hard lesson. She didn't "ask for it", but she appears to have put herself into an extremely vulnerable position. (The caveat here is if someone slipped her a Mickey, which I'm not sure of.)

I think the "responsible female" angle would make more sense if this was a 30 year old woman and not a 16 year old girl.

 

[bigbottom]

Were the boys drunk?

Would this have mattered if so?

And I say this having not really followed this case, but I hear about a "drunken crazy party" and a plainly drunken girl, but were these boys lit up too?

I've been drunk lots of times. Even at my drunkest, I'm aware that raping somebody is wrong. Being drunk isn't an excuse.

True confession, I've never been drunk or done a drug in my life. I truly can't relate to this, thankfully, in anyway.

But that being said...

Why is the girls drunken state so relevant to this state of affairs whereas the boys potential drunken status would not be?

Not absolving, just outside and independent. Why does it matter if the girl was drunk if it doesn't matter if the boys were drunk? It would seem a universal byproduct of intoxication is impaired judgement.

And this is in no way absolving the boys, I'm just wondering to what degree, we can assign any responsibility to the girl as a hypothetical.

How about none? It doesn't matter how much she drank, it doesn't matter what she wore. What matters is that these "people" carried her from party to party and raped her repeatedly.

As a matter of law, she has no responsibility.As a matter of being a responsible female and knowing that, whatever the law says, there are still males out there who act like cavemen around vulnerable females, hers is a hard lesson. She didn't "ask for it", but she appears to have put herself into an extremely vulnerable position. (The caveat here is if someone slipped her a Mickey, which I'm not sure of.)

The prevailing theory is they did. Based on her memory loss probably in her first drink. Can't prove it though as it was too late for toxicology once she reported it.

Was there any evidence presented at trial on this point? I seem to recall an article that listed what she allegedly drank that night and it seemed like a lot, particularly for a sixteen-year-old girl.Edit: "The teen witnesses, who described themselves as classmates and former best friends of the girl, told the court they saw the alleged victim drinking. She drank at least four shots of vodka, two beers and some of a slushy mixed with vodka, a 16-year-old witness said."

http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/16/justice/ohio-steubenville-case/index.html?c=&page=2

Not sure how much alcohol would be necessary for a sixteen year old girl to have a blackout.

 

[Rayderr]

Were the boys drunk?

Would this have mattered if so?

And I say this having not really followed this case, but I hear about a "drunken crazy party" and a plainly drunken girl, but were these boys lit up too?

I've been drunk lots of times. Even at my drunkest, I'm aware that raping somebody is wrong. Being drunk isn't an excuse.

True confession, I've never been drunk or done a drug in my life. I truly can't relate to this, thankfully, in anyway.

But that being said...

Why is the girls drunken state so relevant to this state of affairs whereas the boys potential drunken status would not be?

Not absolving, just outside and independent. Why does it matter if the girl was drunk if it doesn't matter if the boys were drunk? It would seem a universal byproduct of intoxication is impaired judgement.

And this is in no way absolving the boys, I'm just wondering to what degree, we can assign any responsibility to the girl as a hypothetical.

How about none? It doesn't matter how much she drank, it doesn't matter what she wore. What matters is that these "people" carried her from party to party and raped her repeatedly.

As a matter of law, she has no responsibility.As a matter of being a responsible female and knowing that, whatever the law says, there are still males out there who act like cavemen around vulnerable females, hers is a hard lesson. She didn't "ask for it", but she appears to have put herself into an extremely vulnerable position. (The caveat here is if someone slipped her a Mickey, which I'm not sure of.)

The prevailing theory is they did. Based on her memory loss probably in her first drink. Can't prove it though as it was too late for toxicology once she reported it.

Was there any evidence presented at trial on this point? I seem to recall an article that listed what she allegedly drank that night and it seemed like a lot, particularly for a sixteen-year-old girl.Edit: "The teen witnesses, who described themselves as classmates and former best friends of the girl, told the court they saw the alleged victim drinking. She drank at least four shots of vodka, two beers and some of a slushy mixed with vodka, a 16-year-old witness said."

http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/16/justice/ohio-steubenville-case/index.html?c=&page=2

Not sure how much alcohol would be necessary for a sixteen year old girl to have a blackout.

Six witnesses for the prosecution testified Wednesday, including a 17-year-old girl who went to a party with the alleged victim. The witness said she and the girl shared a half a bottle of vodka, which they each poured into a flavored crushed ice drink.

I'd say a slushie containing 1/4 a bottle of vodka, plus the other drinks makes her passing out from the alcohol plausible.

 

[NCCommish]

Yeah I am not so sure how much stock I put in any witnesses for the prosecution. I mean we have already had two girls arrested for threatening to assault and kill the girl after the verdicts. I really don't believe much that comes out of anyone's mouth from that town in this case at this point. She says she doesn't remember all the alleged drinking. I have been drunk enough to blackout. I remember the drinking before the blackout started. I guess the victim could be lying as well but really she gets the benefit of the doubt from me.

 

[bigbottom]

Yeah I am not so sure how much stock I put in any witnesses for the prosecution. I mean we have already had two girls arrested for threatening to assault and kill the girl after the verdicts. I really don't believe much that comes out of anyone's mouth from that town in this case at this point. She says she doesn't remember all the alleged drinking. I have been drunk enough to blackout. I remember the drinking before the blackout started. I guess the victim could be lying as well but really she gets the benefit of the doubt from me.

You don't put stock in witnesses for the prosecution? Why not? They would be on the side of helping the girl and convicting the rapists. The testimony about how much she drank was key evidence supporting a central aspect of the prosecution's case (to show she was incapacitated and incapable of consent). In any event, my question was a sincere one. You said that the prevailing theory was that she had been drugged. Was this theory presented at trial? Her testimony about not remembering all the drinking surely supports such a theory. Was just wondering whether there was any other evidence on that point, other witnesses or perhaps a medical or toxicology expert.

 

[NCCommish]

Yeah I am not so sure how much stock I put in any witnesses for the prosecution. I mean we have already had two girls arrested for threatening to assault and kill the girl after the verdicts. I really don't believe much that comes out of anyone's mouth from that town in this case at this point. She says she doesn't remember all the alleged drinking. I have been drunk enough to blackout. I remember the drinking before the blackout started. I guess the victim could be lying as well but really she gets the benefit of the doubt from me.

You don't put stock in witnesses for the prosecution? Why not? They would be on the side of helping the girl and convicting the rapists. In any event, my question was a sincere one. You said that the prevailing theory was that she had been drugged. Was this theory presented at trial? Her testimony about not remembering all the drinking surely supports such a theory. Was just wondering whether there was any other evidence on that point, perhaps a medical or toxicology expert.

No. As I mentioned it was too late by the time she reported and it wouldn't have shown in a toxicology report.There is no proof it happened beyond the victims testimony about her bad memory. It's the prevailing theory amongst those who know the girl there is no proof. I guess I wasn't clear on that my apologies. And yeah I think even people working with the prosecution are suspicious. I think you can do a lot to shade the truth so you don't look bad when the crap hits the fan after the verdicts and the whole town is looking for someone to blame. At some point that turns to "traitors" in their midst. Maybe it's irrational on my part but when you look at all the people who knew and said nothing out of fear of consequences I think it's hard to trust anyone.

 

[bigbottom]

Yeah I am not so sure how much stock I put in any witnesses for the prosecution. I mean we have already had two girls arrested for threatening to assault and kill the girl after the verdicts. I really don't believe much that comes out of anyone's mouth from that town in this case at this point. She says she doesn't remember all the alleged drinking. I have been drunk enough to blackout. I remember the drinking before the blackout started. I guess the victim could be lying as well but really she gets the benefit of the doubt from me.

You don't put stock in witnesses for the prosecution? Why not? They would be on the side of helping the girl and convicting the rapists. In any event, my question was a sincere one. You said that the prevailing theory was that she had been drugged. Was this theory presented at trial? Her testimony about not remembering all the drinking surely supports such a theory. Was just wondering whether there was any other evidence on that point, perhaps a medical or toxicology expert.

No. As I mentioned it was too late by the time she reported and it wouldn't have shown in a toxicology report.There is no proof it happened beyond the victims testimony about her bad memory. It's the prevailing theory amongst those who know the girl there is no proof. I guess I wasn't clear on that my apologies. And yeah I think even people working with the prosecution are suspicious. I think you can do a lot to shade the truth so you don't look bad when the crap hits the fan after the verdicts and the whole town is looking for someone to blame. At some point that turns to "traitors" in their midst. Maybe it's irrational on my part but when you look at all the people who knew and said nothing out of fear of consequences I think it's hard to trust anyone.

It would have been a lot more difficult to get a conviction if you discounted the testimony of every prosecution witness other than the victim, who didn't remember much of anything. The testimony of prosecution witnesses was critical with respect to proving that she was incapacitated and proving the particulars about what these guys did to her.

 

[Bogeys]

Glad to see this from the cops

My link

Teen Girls Charged for Allegedly Threatening Steubenville, Ohio, Rape Victim

Two teenage girls were charged with menacing today for allegedly threatening the victim in the Steubenville, Ohio, rape case via Twitter and Facebook, Ohio Attorney General Mike DeWine announced.

"Let me be clear," DeWine said in a news release on his website announcing the arrests this evening. "Threatening a teenage rape victim will not be tolerated. If anyone makes a threat verbally or via the Internet, we will take it seriously, we will find you, and we will arrest you."

 

[Abraham]

I believe I read that they are empaneling a grand jury to look at charges for other people including obstruction for up to 15 teens that have not cooperated.

 

[NCCommish]

Yeah I am not so sure how much stock I put in any witnesses for the prosecution. I mean we have already had two girls arrested for threatening to assault and kill the girl after the verdicts. I really don't believe much that comes out of anyone's mouth from that town in this case at this point. She says she doesn't remember all the alleged drinking. I have been drunk enough to blackout. I remember the drinking before the blackout started. I guess the victim could be lying as well but really she gets the benefit of the doubt from me.

You don't put stock in witnesses for the prosecution? Why not? They would be on the side of helping the girl and convicting the rapists. In any event, my question was a sincere one. You said that the prevailing theory was that she had been drugged. Was this theory presented at trial? Her testimony about not remembering all the drinking surely supports such a theory. Was just wondering whether there was any other evidence on that point, perhaps a medical or toxicology expert.

No. As I mentioned it was too late by the time she reported and it wouldn't have shown in a toxicology report.There is no proof it happened beyond the victims testimony about her bad memory. It's the prevailing theory amongst those who know the girl there is no proof. I guess I wasn't clear on that my apologies. And yeah I think even people working with the prosecution are suspicious. I think you can do a lot to shade the truth so you don't look bad when the crap hits the fan after the verdicts and the whole town is looking for someone to blame. At some point that turns to "traitors" in their midst. Maybe it's irrational on my part but when you look at all the people who knew and said nothing out of fear of consequences I think it's hard to trust anyone.

It would have been a lot more difficult to get a conviction if you discounted the testimony of every prosecution witness other than the victim, who didn't remember much of anything. The testimony of prosecution witnesses was critical with respect to proving that she was incapacitated and proving the particulars about what these guys did to her.

I know. I still don't trust them to be 100% accurate. I just think there is a real fear here of the powerful that protected these boys.

 

[NCCommish]

I believe I read that they are empaneling a grand jury to look at charges for other people including obstruction for up to 15 teens that have not cooperated.

They are also supposedly looking at the coach and the owners of the house where the picture of the girl being carried in by her arms and legs happened.

 

[Bogeys]

I believe I read that they are empaneling a grand jury to look at charges for other people including obstruction for up to 15 teens that have not cooperated.

They are also supposedly looking at the coach and the owners of the house where the picture of the girl being carried in by her arms and legs happened.

My link

 

[kface]

I'm sure its been mentioned but I can't believe how many people in the comment section of these articles suggest the girl is somehow to blame.

 

[Novice2]

I believe I read that they are empaneling a grand jury to look at charges for other people including obstruction for up to 15 teens that have not cooperated.

Witches everywhere!

 

[Ghost Rider]

Flipping around the dial last night, Piers Morgan (whom I would normally never watch) had the laywer for Ma'lik Richmond on, and man oh man, what a piece of work that guy is. I get that he is there in support of his client, but he couldn't care less about the victim or how any of this has affected her. He strikes me as one of those people who is probably a good defense attorney, but a piece of #### human being.

 

[Ignoramus]

It's a shame these kids now have a record because some girl is afraid to be called a slut in school. We all know what happens at these parties and she had to come up with an excuse once the pictures starting making the rounds.

It's a shame these kids aren't going to a maximum security adult facility where they would be raped every day for 20 years.

I think I never will understand some dudes' fascination with another dude being raped.

Never?

Well... I guess if he's some kind of sexual deviant with homoerotic rape fantasies, I guess I can understand the "why", given his wiring. But for a normal person, never.

 

[wazoo11]

I have never understood the frathouse jock culture.

 

[Chaka]

I have never understood the frathouse jock culture.

Don't worry man, there is still a house for you.Not an insult, these are the guys who go on to rule the world.

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

I have never understood the frathouse jock culture.

Don't worry man, there is still a house for you.Not an insult, these are the guys who go on to rule the world.

Of course, Lewis committed rape (by impersonation) in that movie.

 

[Charlie Frown]

Just an interesting side note: Traci Lords was born and raped in Steubenville OH.

LINK

 

[T Bell]

I have never understood the frathouse jock culture.

Neither do I, nor did I when I played college baseball. Overt stupidity (or worse) has never looked very "fun" to me.

 

[Henry Rollins]

What made these young people think that that what they did was ok? What was in their upbringing, the information and morals instilled in them that allowed them to do what they did, minute after minute, laughing, joking, documenting it and then calling it a night and going home? Out of all the people who were witness to what happened, why wasn’t there someone putting a stop to it?

What I am attempting to get at...is that this is a failure on many levels. Parents, teachers, coaches, peers all come into play here. I am not trying to diffuse blame or lessen the awfulness of what happened but I want to address the complexity of the cause in an effort to assess the effect so it can be prevented.

It is obvious that the two offenders saw the victim as some one that could be treated as a thing. This is not about sex, it is about power and control. I guess that is what I am getting at. Sex was probably not the hardest thing for the two to get, so that wasn’t the objective. When you hear the jokes being made during the crime, it is the purest contempt.

So, how do you fix that? I’m just shooting rubber bands at the night sky but here are a few ideas: Put women’s studies in high school the curriculum from war heroes to politicians, writers, speakers, activists, revolutionaries and let young people understand that women have been kicking ### in high threat conditions for ages and they are worthy of respect.

Total sex ed in school. Learn how it all works. Learn what the definition of statutory rape is and that it is rape, that date rape is rape, that rape is rape.

Full comments here.

 

[Otis]

How is the victim holding up? Is she okay? Man, I can't imagine what her life has been like. Poor girl. What must her family be going through?

Imagine being her father.

 

[Otis]

Were the boys drunk?

Would this have mattered if so?

And I say this having not really followed this case, but I hear about a "drunken crazy party" and a plainly drunken girl, but were these boys lit up too?

I've been drunk lots of times. Even at my drunkest, I'm aware that raping somebody is wrong. Being drunk isn't an excuse.

True confession, I've never been drunk or done a drug in my life. I truly can't relate to this, thankfully, in anyway.

But that being said...

Why is the girls drunken state so relevant to this state of affairs whereas the boys potential drunken status would not be?

Not absolving, just outside and independent. Why does it matter if the girl was drunk if it doesn't matter if the boys were drunk? It would seem a universal byproduct of intoxication is impaired judgement.

And this is in no way absolving the boys, I'm just wondering to what degree, we can assign any responsibility to the girl as a hypothetical.

How about none? It doesn't matter how much she drank, it doesn't matter what she wore. What matters is that these "people" carried her from party to party and raped her repeatedly.

As a matter of law, she has no responsibility.As a matter of being a responsible female and knowing that, whatever the law says, there are still males out there who act like cavemen around vulnerable females, hers is a hard lesson. She didn't "ask for it", but she appears to have put herself into an extremely vulnerable position. (The caveat here is if someone slipped her a Mickey, which I'm not sure of.)

I think the "responsible female" angle would make more sense if this was a 30 year old woman and not a 16 year old girl.

This. People in here can be un-smart sometimes.

 

[pittstownkiller]

Why is the girls drunken state so relevant to this state of affairs whereas the boys potential drunken status would not be?

The girl was incapacitated.

Was she? Testimony given portrayed she was talking. I would say she was more in a stupor (maybe just semantics here).

 

[pittstownkiller]

Yeah I am not so sure how much stock I put in any witnesses for the prosecution. I mean we have already had two girls arrested for threatening to assault and kill the girl after the verdicts. I really don't believe much that comes out of anyone's mouth from that town in this case at this point. She says she doesn't remember all the alleged drinking. I have been drunk enough to blackout. I remember the drinking before the blackout started. I guess the victim could be lying as well but really she gets the benefit of the doubt from me.

You don't put stock in witnesses for the prosecution? Why not? They would be on the side of helping the girl and convicting the rapists. In any event, my question was a sincere one. You said that the prevailing theory was that she had been drugged. Was this theory presented at trial? Her testimony about not remembering all the drinking surely supports such a theory. Was just wondering whether there was any other evidence on that point, perhaps a medical or toxicology expert.

No. As I mentioned it was too late by the time she reported and it wouldn't have shown in a toxicology report.There is no proof it happened beyond the victims testimony about her bad memory. It's the prevailing theory amongst those who know the girl there is no proof. I guess I wasn't clear on that my apologies. And yeah I think even people working with the prosecution are suspicious. I think you can do a lot to shade the truth so you don't look bad when the crap hits the fan after the verdicts and the whole town is looking for someone to blame. At some point that turns to "traitors" in their midst. Maybe it's irrational on my part but when you look at all the people who knew and said nothing out of fear of consequences I think it's hard to trust anyone.

Was this even brought up court; with no evidence besides "I don't remember anything" I do not see how it would even be presented, let alone not objected to.

 

[NCCommish]

Why is the girls drunken state so relevant to this state of affairs whereas the boys potential drunken status would not be?

The girl was incapacitated.

Was she? Testimony given portrayed she was talking. I would say she was more in a stupor (maybe just semantics here).

Yeah the joker on the video kept saying she was dead. No movement, no talking.

 

[pittstownkiller]

Does anyone know if these two boys will be required to register as sex offenders for their life or just for the time they were eligible to be incarcerated (till age 21); I believe it is the latter.

 

[pittstownkiller]

Why is the girls drunken state so relevant to this state of affairs whereas the boys potential drunken status would not be?

The girl was incapacitated.

Was she? Testimony given portrayed she was talking. I would say she was more in a stupor (maybe just semantics here).

Yeah the joker on the video kept saying she was dead. No movement, no talking.

I had heard that there was testimony saying that she was responsive when asked questions (as for coherency I do not know).

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Why is the girls drunken state so relevant to this state of affairs whereas the boys potential drunken status would not be?

The girl was incapacitated.

Was she? Testimony given portrayed she was talking. I would say she was more in a stupor (maybe just semantics here).

Yeah the joker on the video kept saying she was dead. No movement, no talking.

I had heard that there was testimony saying that she was responsive when asked questions (as for coherency I do not know).

If the debate here is whether the girl was completely unconcious or whether she was "just" in a stupor and barely able to speak, we're still well across of the line of not being able to consent, which makes having sex with her rape regardless.

 

[pittstownkiller]

I'm sure its been mentioned but I can't believe how many people in the comment section of these articles suggest the girl is somehow to blame.

Blaming the girl for a crime committed against her is horrendous but do you think she had any responsibility to herself to not put herself in such a dangerous situation (i.e. to not be so stupid? 16 isn't babe in the woods territory)? Of course if she was drugged, or deceived in some other ways, the onus comes off of her...and before everyone jumps down my throat, I am not defending the rapists; they got what they deserve.

 

[pittstownkiller]

Why is the girls drunken state so relevant to this state of affairs whereas the boys potential drunken status would not be?

The girl was incapacitated.

Was she? Testimony given portrayed she was talking. I would say she was more in a stupor (maybe just semantics here).

Yeah the joker on the video kept saying she was dead. No movement, no talking.

I had heard that there was testimony saying that she was responsive when asked questions (as for coherency I do not know).

If the debate here is whether the girl was completely unconcious or whether she was "just" in a stupor and barely able to speak, we're still well across of the line of not being able to consent, which makes having sex with her rape regardless.

I agree with that in a legal sense but how would that work in the real world? If I ask a girl if she wants to have sex and she answers yes, is it my responsibility to make she she is within the legal definition of sobriety or is this a case of "if you break it you bought it"?

 

[Henry Ford]

I'm sure its been mentioned but I can't believe how many people in the comment section of these articles suggest the girl is somehow to blame.

Blaming the girl for a crime committed against her is horrendous.

That was a really smart and compassionate place to end that sentence. Good decision.

 

[Henry Ford]

Why is the girls drunken state so relevant to this state of affairs whereas the boys potential drunken status would not be?

The girl was incapacitated.

Was she? Testimony given portrayed she was talking. I would say she was more in a stupor (maybe just semantics here).

Yeah the joker on the video kept saying she was dead. No movement, no talking.

I had heard that there was testimony saying that she was responsive when asked questions (as for coherency I do not know).

If the debate here is whether the girl was completely unconcious or whether she was "just" in a stupor and barely able to speak, we're still well across of the line of not being able to consent, which makes having sex with her rape regardless.

I agree with that in a legal sense but how would that work in the real world? If I ask a girl if she wants to have sex and she answers yes, is it my responsibility to make she she is within the legal definition of sobriety or is this a case of "if you break it you bought it"?

It's your responsibility to make sure she's sober enough that a jury would find that she's capable of consent. If you have any doubts, don't do it.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I agree with that in a legal sense but how would that work in the real world? If I ask a girl if she wants to have sex and she answers yes, is it my responsibility to make she she is within the legal definition of sobriety or is this a case of "if you break it you bought it"?

Scooby mentioned earlier that alcohol can make some of these issues tricky. If we were talking about a case where a girl and boy are both drunk and engage in "consensual" sex that later turns into a rape allegation, that would be one thing. This isn't that thing though. Nobody as far as I know is saying that the girl in this case was just a little tipsy -- she was being carried around. This isn't a shades-of-gray issue.

 

[Abraham]

Why is the girls drunken state so relevant to this state of affairs whereas the boys potential drunken status would not be?

The girl was incapacitated.

Was she? Testimony given portrayed she was talking. I would say she was more in a stupor (maybe just semantics here).

Yeah the joker on the video kept saying she was dead. No movement, no talking.

I had heard that there was testimony saying that she was responsive when asked questions (as for coherency I do not know).

If the debate here is whether the girl was completely unconcious or whether she was "just" in a stupor and barely able to speak, we're still well across of the line of not being able to consent, which makes having sex with her rape regardless.

I agree with that in a legal sense but how would that work in the real world? If I ask a girl if she wants to have sex and she answers yes, is it my responsibility to make she she is within the legal definition of sobriety or is this a case of "if you break it you bought it"?

It's your responsibility to make sure she's sober enough that a jury would find that she's capable of consent. If you have any doubts, don't do it.

Yup.

 

[B-Deep]

Pitts wouldn't it be nice if girls would just learn to not get raped already....

16 year old boys can drink with impunity, but girls, well hell they are just putting them in a position to get raped

and if they do, we'll sure as hell make sure we point out they are to blame

 

[simey]

Why is the girls drunken state so relevant to this state of affairs whereas the boys potential drunken status would not be?

The girl was incapacitated.

Was she? Testimony given portrayed she was talking. I would say she was more in a stupor (maybe just semantics here).

Well here are some of the things the boys said on video:"You didn't see how they carried her out," he says. And: "They peed on her, that's how you know she's dead." "She is deader than JFK." "She is deader than Trayvon Martin.""That's like, rape," says the unseen male. "They raped her." "What if that was your daughter?" says another off-camera male."But it isn't," says the teen making the jokes. "If that was my daughter I wouldn't care, I'd just let her be dead."There is more, but I think you get the picture that she is passed out.

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

I agree with that in a legal sense but how would that work in the real world? If I ask a girl if she wants to have sex and she answers yes, is it my responsibility to make she she is within the legal definition of sobriety or is this a case of "if you break it you bought it"?

Scooby mentioned earlier that alcohol can make some of these issues tricky. If we were talking about a case where a girl and boy are both drunk and engage in "consensual" sex that later turns into a rape allegation, that would be one thing. This isn't that thing though. Nobody as far as I know is saying that the girl in this case was just a little tipsy -- she was being carried around. This isn't a shades-of-gray issue.

When I was in college in the early 90s there was a flashpoint date rape case involving a member of our soccer team. Speaking about it in class, my media law professor surprised me by saying that there had never been a conviction for date rape in the county that housed my mid-sized public university. That was shocking to me then, but it doesn't really shock me now. Lack of consent is an element of the offense. In most cases, there are no witnesses. And if you have testimony that a victim was drinking and engaging with the guy, it's not surprising that the prosecution is going to have a hard time establishing, beyond a reasonable doubt, that there was no consent.But, of course, this case is different. I don't think we need to jump down pittsdown's throat here, though. It's not blaming the victim to say that this girl might have exhibited crappy judgment. 16 year old girls often do. We could even say that some bad outcomes are natural consequences of that type of judgment, such as a trip to the emergency room for alcohol poisoning. Gang rape, however, is not one of those natural consequences.

 

[Sweet J]

I had heard that there was testimony saying that she was responsive when asked questions (as for coherency I do not know).

She was unconscious. They carried her, by her hands and feet, to a party where they raped her. Have you not seen the picture?

 

[B-Deep]

I agree with that in a legal sense but how would that work in the real world? If I ask a girl if she wants to have sex and she answers yes, is it my responsibility to make she she is within the legal definition of sobriety or is this a case of "if you break it you bought it"?

Scooby mentioned earlier that alcohol can make some of these issues tricky. If we were talking about a case where a girl and boy are both drunk and engage in "consensual" sex that later turns into a rape allegation, that would be one thing. This isn't that thing though. Nobody as far as I know is saying that the girl in this case was just a little tipsy -- she was being carried around. This isn't a shades-of-gray issue.

When I was in college in the early 90s there was a flashpoint date rape case involving a member of our soccer team. Speaking about it in class, my media law professor surprised me by saying that there had never been a conviction for date rape in the county that housed my mid-sized public university. That was shocking to me then, but it doesn't really shock me now. Lack of consent is an element of the offense. In most cases, there are no witnesses. And if you have testimony that a victim was drinking and engaging with the guy, it's not surprising that the prosecution is going to have a hard time establishing, beyond a reasonable doubt, that there was no consent.But, of course, this case is different. I don't think we need to jump down pittsdown's throat here, though. It's not blaming the victim to say that this girl might have exhibited crappy judgment. 16 year old girls often do. We could even say that some bad outcomes are natural consequences of that type of judgment, such as a trip to the emergency room for alcohol poisoning. Gang rape, however, is not one of those natural consequences.

many people who are victims of crimes could have done things differently to avoid ityet is is with rape that we most often feel the need to point this outWhile I do not recommend it, a woman should be able to pass out at a party and STILL have the expectation that no one is going to rape her, because rape is a vile crime that any reasonable human being would not consider partaking in no matter his state or th state of the woman. Have any of us FBGs who have ever passed out thought the next day "damn, that was an open invitation for someone to #### me in the pooper"?