Annual Tanking Question (1 Viewer)

[Mr. Know-It-All]

Our redraft league has 12 teams, 8 of which make the playoffs beginning in Week 14. Teams 9-10 are done after Week 13. Teams 11-12 play in the Toilet Bowl in Week 15 and the winner of that game gets the trophy and the most lottery balls in the following years draft.

Despite having the 4th highest scoring team in the league, I somehow am at 4-8 with one week to play. The 12th place teams is locked in at 3-9. The 9th and 10th place teams are each at 5-7.

Now my question. If I tank next week against the 8th place team who win or lose will be in the 8th spot because he owns tie breaker over both the 9th and 10th place team and he loses tie breaker to all the teams ahead of him. So he is in 8th place no matter what.

If I win my game, that puts me at 5-8 and I own the tie breaker over both teams in the 9-10 slots so by winning I am hurting myself for draft position next year but in no way effecting the standings this year. By losing I guarantee a shot at winning the Toilet Bowl and greatly enhancing my draft position next year.

Now, if my winning or losing would effect who makes the playoffs or playoff matchups then I would not even consider it. But after suffering through a freakish year in which I had a scoring juggernaut but also gave up the most points by a large margin...shouldn't I tank it to at least make the misery worth a better draft pick?

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

Here's my catch-all answer:

Do what's best for your team. Every time. Your job is to look out for your franchise and play by the rules.

I know that people will say you should never tank no matter what, and it's not fair, and anyone who did that would get kicked out of their league, and it goes against the rules of sport (as if fantasy football is somehow a sport) and instant karma's gonna get you... and blah blah blah.

If whatever you're thinking about doing helps your team, doesn't violate the letter or spirit of any rules and puts you in a position to win (either now or down the road) you should do it. Nobody's going to look out for your team but you. Nobody wants you to succeed but you. Every other owner in your league would like to see you fail.

If you don't do what's best for your team...who will?

 

[GregR_2]

Our redraft league has 12 teams, 8 of which make the playoffs beginning in Week 14. Teams 9-10 are done after Week 13. Teams 11-12 play in the Toilet Bowl in Week 15 and the winner of that game gets the trophy and the most lottery balls in the following years draft.Despite having the 4th highest scoring team in the league, I somehow am at 4-8 with one week to play. The 12th place teams is locked in at 3-9. The 9th and 10th place teams are each at 5-7.Now my question. If I tank next week against the 8th place team who win or lose will be in the 8th spot because he owns tie breaker over both the 9th and 10th place team and he loses tie breaker to all the teams ahead of him. So he is in 8th place no matter what.If I win my game, that puts me at 5-8 and I own the tie breaker over both teams in the 9-10 slots so by winning I am hurting myself for draft position next year but in no way effecting the standings this year. By losing I guarantee a shot at winning the Toilet Bowl and greatly enhancing my draft position next year.Now, if my winning or losing would effect who makes the playoffs or playoff matchups then I would not even consider it. But after suffering through a freakish year in which I had a scoring juggernaut but also gave up the most points by a large margin...shouldn't I tank it to at least make the misery worth a better draft pick?

No. Down inside you know it's against the spirit of the game and so you've come here so that if a bunch of people who have nothing vested in it tell you that it's ok, you can then feel validated that you aren't doing anything wrong. But that doesn't change that down inside, you know it's not right.Listen to your own conscience and do what's right. You'll feel better about it in the long run.

 

[Hell Diablo]

I'm actually in a keeper league where tanking is allowed and encouraged to allow teams to turn around faster. It's funny though. All the same teams keep tanking. They keep waiting until next year when Reggie Bush will turn their team around.

Myself, I've been out of the playoffs for two weeks now but still can't feel good about putting a crap lineup in so I don't. I don't care about next years draft position. Somehow I'll get the guys that will get me the win. The 1.1 isn't necessarily going to do that.

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

I'm actually in a keeper league where tanking is allowed and encouraged to allow teams to turn around faster. It's funny though. All the same teams keep tanking. They keep waiting until next year when Reggie Bush will turn their team around.Myself, I've been out of the playoffs for two weeks now but still can't feel good about putting a crap lineup in so I don't. I don't care about next years draft position. Somehow I'll get the guys that will get me the win. The 1.1 isn't necessarily going to do that.

True. But if it means LT instead of Shaun Alexander (this year) then I think it's a pretty significant difference. And what's the difference between finishing 6-8 and 5-9? If it feels wrong to you...don't do it. But it's hard to imagine that that philosophy is automatically what's best for your team in the long run. I think in many cases it actually hurts your team.I've been in a situation where I needed some help to make the playoffs, but ended up on the outside looking in...because a rival was facing a team that wanted a better draft choice the following year. So whose fault is that? The owner who didn't try to win for me? The league for not having something in place to discourage it? The commissioner for not stepping in?I think it's my fault for not taking care of business earlier in the season and needing charity to make the playoffs. Win enough games and you won't care about who's tanking and who isn't. I didn't, and I paid the price.Of course, a league could eliminate it forever by not rewarding losing teams with the best draft picks...but that's another topic.

 

[Chaz]

I have no idea why redrafts use the previous season to determine draft order. Why reward a team for doing poorly?

(I am in one of these leagues and try every year to change the format to an auction, or even a random draft order)

 

[Knight who says Ni]

Our league has a "B Playoffs" in which the non-playoff teams progress through their own playoff bracket. The winner of the B Playoff gets the #1 pick in both next year's draft, as well as our rookie draft. Gives people incentive to stay interested and not tank games

Ni!

 

[Lehigh98]

I know that people will say you should never tank no matter what, and it's not fair, and anyone who did that would get kicked out of their league, and it goes against the rules of sport (as if fantasy football is somehow a sport) and instant karma's gonna get you... and blah blah blah.If whatever you're thinking about doing helps your team, doesn't violate the letter or spirit of any rules and puts you in a position to win (either now or down the road) you should do it.

 

[Mr. Know-It-All]

I have no idea why redrafts use the previous season to determine draft order. Why reward a team for doing poorly?(I am in one of these leagues and try every year to change the format to an auction, or even a random draft order)

The intent is to establish parity in the league, by ensuring that the worst owners get a decent start to their draft by getting one of the premier players. That way, even if they screw up the rest of their draft they have a fighting chance a la LT, LJ, Manning, etc.The parity concept seems to be playing out in that after Week 12, we have one team at 8-4four teams at 7-5three teams at 6-6two teams at 5-7one team at 4-8and one team at 3-9The 8-4 team had the #2 pick this year after finishing 3-10 last year. However, even with this rule it does seem to it is the same teams finishing in the bottom half each year but the difference between the top half and bottom half has be somewhat offset by those bad teams getting a stud.In my case, it is not that I have tanked at all this year. I have been the victim of an unfortunate schedule in that I have the 4th highest scoring team in the entire league, but am 4-8 to show for it thanks to also giving up the most points by a HUGE margin. That is just the way things go sometimes, but after having trotted out a great lineup for 12 weeks and having a losing record to show for it, why not tank a game to better my position for next year?Again, the team I am playing cannot finish above or below 8th place (he is guaranteed that spot due to tiebreakers regardless of what happens in Week 13). If I beat him to go to 5-8 and drop him to 6-7 his lottery seeding does not change and the playoff positioning is not affected. However, by going to 5-8 I own the tiebreaker over both teams that are at 5-7 so if they both lost (HIGHLY likely) I jump from 11th to 9th and lose my draft position advantage next year.The point is though that it is still a lottery, just by finishing 11th doesn't guarantee me the #2 pick next year. Each team gets a number of lottery balls equivalent to their final standings (except in my case if I win the Toilet Bowl I get the 12th seed instead of the 11th seed) multiplied by 2. So the difference between 12th (24 balls) and 9th (18 balls) is pretty significant. finishing 12th pretty much has been a guarantee of a top 3 pick the following year.

 

[VaCatFan]

Our redraft league has 12 teams, 8 of which make the playoffs beginning in Week 14. Teams 9-10 are done after Week 13. Teams 11-12 play in the Toilet Bowl in Week 15 and the winner of that game gets the trophy and the most lottery balls in the following years draft.Despite having the 4th highest scoring team in the league, I somehow am at 4-8 with one week to play. The 12th place teams is locked in at 3-9. The 9th and 10th place teams are each at 5-7.Now my question. If I tank next week against the 8th place team who win or lose will be in the 8th spot because he owns tie breaker over both the 9th and 10th place team and he loses tie breaker to all the teams ahead of him. So he is in 8th place no matter what.If I win my game, that puts me at 5-8 and I own the tie breaker over both teams in the 9-10 slots so by winning I am hurting myself for draft position next year but in no way effecting the standings this year. By losing I guarantee a shot at winning the Toilet Bowl and greatly enhancing my draft position next year.Now, if my winning or losing would effect who makes the playoffs or playoff matchups then I would not even consider it. But after suffering through a freakish year in which I had a scoring juggernaut but also gave up the most points by a large margin...shouldn't I tank it to at least make the misery worth a better draft pick?

No. Down inside you know it's against the spirit of the game and so you've come here so that if a bunch of people who have nothing vested in it tell you that it's ok, you can then feel validated that you aren't doing anything wrong. But that doesn't change that down inside, you know it's not right.Listen to your own conscience and do what's right. You'll feel better about it in the long run.

Funny, I have a commish in one of my dynasty leagues who says to stop worrying about other teams and if they're tanking or playing guys on a bye week when they have viable starters and just worry about your own team. Go figure. Follow my conscience or tank like the commish says. Hmmmmmmm

 

[GregR_2]

...

Now, if my winning or losing would effect who makes the playoffs or playoff matchups then I would not even consider it. But after suffering through a freakish year in which I had a scoring juggernaut but also gave up the most points by a large margin...shouldn't I tank it to at least make the misery worth a better draft pick?

You say you would never consider tanking if it would affect the playoff matchups.The other teams who are out of contention are the ones you gain an advantage over if you tank. If you tank, the only avenue they have to protect their own team is to tank back. Regardless of whether it affects playoff matchups or not.

Do you think it's fair of you to be able to tank and put them in a situation the only way they can get a fair shake is to tank back at the expense of the integrity of the playoffs?

 

[Mr. Know-It-All]

...

Now, if my winning or losing would effect who makes the playoffs or playoff matchups then I would not even consider it. But after suffering through a freakish year in which I had a scoring juggernaut but also gave up the most points by a large margin...shouldn't I tank it to at least make the misery worth a better draft pick?

You say you would never consider tanking if it would affect the playoff matchups.The other teams who are out of contention are the ones you gain an advantage over if you tank. If you tank, the only avenue they have to protect their own team is to tank back. Regardless of whether it affects playoff matchups or not.

Do you think it's fair of you to be able to tank and put them in a situation the only way they can get a fair shake is to tank back at the expense of the integrity of the playoffs?

They have a one game lead on me so even if both tanked, they would have to hope I won....so how would they "tank back"? The sad thing is both teams ahead of me are horrible. Our 12th place team has the fewest points scored, I have the 4th MOST points scored, the 10th place team has the second worst points scored and the 9th place team has the third worst points scored. I shouldn't even be in the position I am in based on what I can control (my weekly lineup) but I just had the misfortune of giving up the most points in the league by a large margin. It happens. This is the first time in 15 years that I haven't made the playoffs, so why not "take advantage" of my situation by ensuring a slot in the Toilet Bowl and then attempt to beat the 12th place team for the rights to the most lottery balls.

 

[Buddy Ball 2K3]

I am in a 3 player keeper league and we had an owner tank his season last year to get Reggie Bush, well he did and guess what ? He is one of the worst teams in the league again this year.

The two owners who could have tanked but hung in the middle of the pack were rewarded with Maroney and Addai, they are both playoff bound.

 

[GregR_2]

...

Now, if my winning or losing would effect who makes the playoffs or playoff matchups then I would not even consider it. But after suffering through a freakish year in which I had a scoring juggernaut but also gave up the most points by a large margin...shouldn't I tank it to at least make the misery worth a better draft pick?

You say you would never consider tanking if it would affect the playoff matchups.The other teams who are out of contention are the ones you gain an advantage over if you tank. If you tank, the only avenue they have to protect their own team is to tank back. Regardless of whether it affects playoff matchups or not.

Do you think it's fair of you to be able to tank and put them in a situation the only way they can get a fair shake is to tank back at the expense of the integrity of the playoffs?

They have a one game lead on me so even if both tanked, they would have to hope I won....so how would they "tank back"? The sad thing is both teams ahead of me are horrible. Our 12th place team has the fewest points scored, I have the 4th MOST points scored, the 10th place team has the second worst points scored and the 9th place team has the third worst points scored. I shouldn't even be in the position I am in based on what I can control (my weekly lineup) but I just had the misfortune of giving up the most points in the league by a large margin. It happens. This is the first time in 15 years that I haven't made the playoffs, so why not "take advantage" of my situation by ensuring a slot in the Toilet Bowl and then attempt to beat the 12th place team for the rights to the most lottery balls.

Because many people consider what you're proposing doing to be cheating?If you don't see anything wrong with what you're doing, why not have this discussion on your league message board instead of here? I mean really, it doesn't matter what we think does it? If there's nothing unethical about it and it isn't something that many people would consider cheating, there's no reason to not just discuss it with your own league, is there?