Another end zone related rule that makes no sense (1 Viewer)

[DA RAIDERS]

The eagles just punted. An eagle player smacked at the ball wildly while it was in the air on the 28 or so, al michaels immediately said the ball was down where it was touched.

Why isn't that the same rule near the end zone? Why must possession be established?

What if the ball in the above mentioned play had gone all the way into the end zone? Touchback?

And why doesnt the NFL like Earl bennetts shoes?

 

[Warrior]

First off...that's not what he said at all.

 

[Anonymous Internet User]

I'm not following. On a punt, the receiving team has right of unimpeded first touch. If the punting team touches it first, the ball is dead at the spot of the touch. If the touch is in the end zone, nothing different would happen, either way (touched or not) it's a touchback.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

First off...that's not what he said at all.

You're right! I misheard him. What he said was that if a giant player chose to pick the ball up, the worst possible field position the giants would have was where the eagle player touched it. And what I said above still applies even though al michaels didn't say it.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

I'm not following. On a punt, the receiving team has right of unimpeded first touch. If the punting team touches it first, the ball is dead at the spot of the touch. If the touch is in the end zone, nothing different would happen, either way (touched or not) it's a touchback.

except if the ball is touched and then goes into the end zone.

 

[DangerMonkey]

If a Giant player picks it up and returns it for a TD, they get 6 pts. If a Giant returns it to the 50, they get it a t the 50. If a Giant player picks it up and is tackled at the 2, they get the ball at the spot where the Eagles player touched it.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

If a Giant player picks it up and returns it for a TD, they get 6 pts. If a Giant returns it to the 50, they get it a t the 50. If a Giant player picks it up and is tackled at the 2, they get the ball at the spot where the Eagles player touched it.

I know. What if it had gone into the end zone? Touchback?

 

[BroadwayG]

'Downing' is actually a zero yard penalty.

 

[DangerMonkey]

If a Giant player picks it up and returns it for a TD, they get 6 pts. If a Giant returns it to the 50, they get it a t the 50. If a Giant player picks it up and is tackled at the 2, they get the ball at the spot where the Eagles player touched it.

I know. What if it had gone into the end zone? Touchback?

Giants ball at the 28

 

[thatguy]

If a Giant player picks it up and returns it for a TD, they get 6 pts. If a Giant returns it to the 50, they get it a t the 50. If a Giant player picks it up and is tackled at the 2, they get the ball at the spot where the Eagles player touched it.

I know. What if it had gone into the end zone? Touchback?

Giants ball at the 28

Which is exactly what he's asking. He's asking, why is different then, if a player hits the ball at, say, the two, and hits it into the endzone. It's a touchback in that scenario, but if the same rule applied in that scenario, it would be Giants ball at the 2.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

I still want to know how taunting after a play is over offsets a penalty during the play.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

If a Giant player picks it up and returns it for a TD, they get 6 pts. If a Giant returns it to the 50, they get it a t the 50. If a Giant player picks it up and is tackled at the 2, they get the ball at the spot where the Eagles player touched it.

I know. What if it had gone into the end zone? Touchback?

Giants ball at the 28

Which is exactly what he's asking. He's asking, why is different then, if a player hits the ball at, say, the two, and hits it into the endzone. It's a touchback in that scenario, but if the same rule applied in that scenario, it would be Giants ball at the 2.

Exactly

 

[QuizGuy66]

Now that you mentioned it this really is screwy if I have what you are saying right.

Let's suppose there's a punt and the guy on the punting team jumps up off the ground at the receiving team's 28-yard line swats it forward and the ball hits the ground at the receiving team's 19. Is it placed at the 19 or the 28? If it's at the 28 then how come when a player is in the air he can swat the ball out of the endzone (i.e. the ball has broken the plane in the air already) and it can land on say, the 2 yard line and get downed?

-QG

 

[DA RAIDERS]

Now that you mentioned it this really is screwy if I have what you are saying right.Let's suppose there's a punt and the guy on the punting team jumps up off the ground at the receiving team's 28-yard line swats it forward and the ball hits the ground at the receiving team's 19. Is it placed at the 19 or the 28? If it's at the 28 then how come when a player is in the air he can swat the ball out of the endzone (i.e. the ball has broken the plane in the air already) and it can land on say, the 2 yard line and get downed? -QG

This #### has bugged me for years. Same thing with the inadvertent touch. Punted ball hits punting team player in the leg while running, say at the 28. Ball is down right there. But same thing happens down by the end zone and the ball goes into the end zone, it's placed on the 20.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

If a Giant player picks it up and returns it for a TD, they get 6 pts. If a Giant returns it to the 50, they get it a t the 50. If a Giant player picks it up and is tackled at the 2, they get the ball at the spot where the Eagles player touched it.

I know. What if it had gone into the end zone? Touchback?

Giants ball at the 28

Which is exactly what he's asking. He's asking, why is different then, if a player hits the ball at, say, the two, and hits it into the endzone. It's a touchback in that scenario, but if the same rule applied in that scenario, it would be Giants ball at the 2.

Getting the ball at the 28 is better than getting it at the 20; but getting it at the 20 is better than getting it at the 2.When the Eagles touch the ball, it's a penalty (even though a yellow flag is never thrown). The penalty is for zero yards, if it is accepted. It can also be declined.So if the Eagles touch it at the two and it goes into the end zone, the Giants will decline the penalty and take the touchback.If the Eagles touch it at the 28 and it goes into the end zone, the Giants will accept the penalty and take it at the 28.If the Eagles touch it and then a Giants player picks it up, he can run with it — the Giants will have the option of taking the result of the play (by declining the illegal touching penalty), or taking the ball at the 28. Whichever is better. There's no risk of fumbling or anything because you can always just take the penalty and get the ball at the 28. It's a total free-roll. I think that's what Al Michaels was getting at.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

And the No Fun League doesn't like Earl bennett's orange shoes. Unreal, that they were gonna remove him from the game if he wore them again. He covered them up with black tape.

 

[GregR]

What MT said. You either accept the illegal touching and get the ball where it was touched, or you decline it and take the result of the play.

It's just like a defensive offsides where the offense essentially gets a free play since if they don't like the result, they can just accept the penalty and the 5 yards. Accept there isn't any extra yardage on the illegal touch, it is just ball at the spot.

 

[RUSF18]

The explanation of course makes sense, but why don't we hear about this "penalty"? Seems like an important thing to mention.

 

[thatguy]

The explanation of course makes sense, but why don't we hear about this "penalty"? Seems like an important thing to mention.

Agreed.

 

[QuizGuy66]

Still don't get where the ball is spotted if the offending player is airborne. If it's the spot below where the ball is at the time of the contact why isn't it a touchback if the ball is above the endzone?

-QG

 

[MIMN]

The explanation of course makes sense, but why don't we hear about this "penalty"? Seems like an important thing to mention.

Agreed.

If it is a rule I assume it is in the NFL rulebook. I think that is online and available for people to read.

 

[thatguy]

The explanation of course makes sense, but why don't we hear about this "penalty"? Seems like an important thing to mention.

Agreed.

If it is a rule I assume it is in the NFL rulebook. I think that is online and available for people to read.

Of course, but it's not just a rule, it's apparently a penalty. All other penalties that occur are stated explicitly by the ref during the course of the game. The question is, why is this one different?

 

[Ignoratio Elenchi]

Still don't get where the ball is spotted if the offending player is airborne. If it's the spot below where the ball is at the time of the contact why isn't it a touchback if the ball is above the endzone?

-QG

[QUOTE='NFL Rules]FIRST TOUCHING BEYOND THE LINE

Article 2 “First touching” is when a player of the kicking team touches a scrimmage kick that is beyond the

line of scrimmage before it has been touched by a player of the receiving team beyond the line. If the ball

is first touched by a player of the kicking team, it remains in play. First touching is a violation, and the

receivers shall have the option of taking possession of the ball at the spot of first touching, provided no

penalty is accepted on the play, or at the spot where the ball is dead. First touching does not offset a foul

by the receivers.

Note: If the receiving team gains possession, subsequently loses possession, and fouls after the kicking team

gains possession, the spot of first touching is disregarded, and the kicking team retains possession. See

Rule 14, Section 3, Article 1, Exception 5.

Item 1: A Team B player is deemed not to have touched a kick if such touching occurs in the immediate

vicinity of the line in an attempt to block the kick.

Item 2: If a player of the kicking team touches the goal line with any part of his body while touching the

ball, the ball is dead, and the result of the play is a touchback.

Note: The spot of first touching is normally the yard line at which the ball is at when touched. If the first touching

occurs while the ball is in the air above or beyond the goal line, and prior to the ball touching the goal line

or the ground beyond the goal line, the spot of first touching is deemed to be the spot from which the

touching player left the field of play, but in no event inside the receiving team’s one-yard line.
[/QUOTE]

 

[RUSF18]

Still don't get where the ball is spotted if the offending player is airborne. If it's the spot below where the ball is at the time of the contact why isn't it a touchback if the ball is above the endzone?

-QG

[QUOTE='NFL Rules]FIRST TOUCHING BEYOND THE LINE

Article 2 “First touching” is when a player of the kicking team touches a scrimmage kick that is beyond the

line of scrimmage before it has been touched by a player of the receiving team beyond the line. If the ball

is first touched by a player of the kicking team, it remains in play. First touching is a violation, and the

receivers shall have the option of taking possession of the ball at the spot of first touching, provided no

penalty is accepted on the play, or at the spot where the ball is dead. First touching does not offset a foul

by the receivers.

Note: If the receiving team gains possession, subsequently loses possession, and fouls after the kicking team

gains possession, the spot of first touching is disregarded, and the kicking team retains possession. See

Rule 14, Section 3, Article 1, Exception 5.

Item 1: A Team B player is deemed not to have touched a kick if such touching occurs in the immediate

vicinity of the line in an attempt to block the kick.

Item 2: If a player of the kicking team touches the goal line with any part of his body while touching the

ball, the ball is dead, and the result of the play is a touchback.

Note: The spot of first touching is normally the yard line at which the ball is at when touched. If the first touching

occurs while the ball is in the air above or beyond the goal line, and prior to the ball touching the goal line

or the ground beyond the goal line, the spot of first touching is deemed to be the spot from which the

touching player left the field of play, but in no event inside the receiving team’s one-yard line.

[/QUOTE]Slightly off topic, but while watching the Rutgers-Army game last weekend, I was amazed that item 2 is treated differently by NCAA rules. A college player can stand on the goal line and touch the ball within the field of play and the ball will be marked dead there.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

They just called it!!! Illegal touching.

So they only throw the flag if it doesn't go 10 yards!!

Still really lame. They should always throw the flag.

 

[Ignoratio Elenchi]

They just called it!!! Illegal touching. So they only throw the flag if it doesn't go 10 yards!!Still really lame. They should always throw the flag.

There's a difference between a kickoff and a punt.

 

[Hybrid]

They just called it!!! Illegal touching. So they only throw the flag if it doesn't go 10 yards!!Still really lame. They should always throw the flag.

Haha, I think you're a little confused. Kickoffs and punts have entirely different rules.

 

[Steeler]

If a Giant player picks it up and returns it for a TD, they get 6 pts. If a Giant returns it to the 50, they get it a t the 50. If a Giant player picks it up and is tackled at the 2, they get the ball at the spot where the Eagles player touched it.

I know. What if it had gone into the end zone? Touchback?

Giants ball at the 28

Which is exactly what he's asking. He's asking, why is different then, if a player hits the ball at, say, the two, and hits it into the endzone. It's a touchback in that scenario, but if the same rule applied in that scenario, it would be Giants ball at the 2.

Exactly

Because 28 > 20? If they touched the ball at the 19 and it went into the endzone they would get it at the 20

 

[DA RAIDERS]

I was just exciting to hear "illegal touching".

 

[FreeBaGeL]

It boggles my mind that people didn't know this. How many times have we seen savvy kick returners pick up the ball after it was touched, even in traffic, because they knew that even if they fumble it they'd get it back at the spot of the original touch?