What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Another Jet collapse (1 Viewer)

More Jet fans checking in telling Woody to shove his PSLs - worst possible time for him to have a collapse - this may play into Mangini's fate.

 
I needed some time to put this game into perspective so while I folled this thread last night, I finally decided to have some say.

First and foremost, this collapse falls squarely on the shoulders of Mangini. He simply is out of his league and needs to go...NOW. Giving him another year to ruin what is an otherwise pretty talented team will seriously make me consider shifting my allegiance to the Steelers. My dad, who is also a huge Jets fan and normally very reserved, called me last night and honestly I've never heard him so miserable over a football game accept maybe Penn State after we lost to Iowa this year.

Second, Brett Favre was my favorite player ever prior to his signing with the Jets, so I was excited to see him in our uniform. But after the year I'm convinced that he's lost that fire and his ability is really starting to show his age. He needs to hang up the cleats and pads and the Jets need to give Ratliff a shot.

Third, THE DEFENSE!!! Is that what they're called? Unreal. To the posters that are baffled by the play calling I hear ya and feel your pain. And it's not like we don't have talent on the D. A young talented D and you basically play to lose. And the offense playcalling has been just as bad. TJ hasn't been getting anywhere near enough carries.

Bottom line, I'm ill over this. That Titans game had me really thinking we could be good enough to win the AFC. From that to not even making the playoffs!?!?! Mangini! Don't let the door hit ya in the ### on the way out! Give us Marty ball, at least he knows how to play defense and run the football. If we do that this year we're an 11 win team.

Whatta load of horse manure.

 
Media pounding on Mangini - he did not help himself yesterday - shows a complete lack of emotion and understanding on how his team blew the season.

His playres are now reflecting his attitude with Jenkins quoted as saying that "Seattle had a lot to play for - they were fired up for Holmgrem's last game";

Leon when asked if he was inspired to save his coaches job "we work every week the same"

K Rhodes laughed this am when asked if he was prepared by the coaches.

Clayton threw more fuel on the fire that Cower would be interested in the Jet job - Woody needs to sell PSL's and he wont have Favre to do it after the season - I don;t think he wants to do it but unless a miracle happens on Sunday it may be Mangini's last game.

 
Mangini thinks he's too cool for school. Dude needs to go. This team has been sleep walking since the second the Titans game ended.

 
Media pounding on Mangini - he did not help himself yesterday - shows a complete lack of emotion and understanding on how his team blew the season. His playres are now reflecting his attitude with Jenkins quoted as saying that "Seattle had a lot to play for - they were fired up for Holmgrem's last game";Leon when asked if he was inspired to save his coaches job "we work every week the same"K Rhodes laughed this am when asked if he was prepared by the coaches. Clayton threw more fuel on the fire that Cower would be interested in the Jet job - Woody needs to sell PSL's and he wont have Favre to do it after the season - I don;t think he wants to do it but unless a miracle happens on Sunday it may be Mangini's last game.
I don't think Woody would fire Mangini, - BUT, Cowher is interesting to say the least.I also think the NY media is insane with the FIRE THE COACH stuff... they did this with Coughlin as well not too long ago - Maybe 13 months ago.All that said, At this point, as fed up as I am, I relish the PRESSURE, that the media is putting on Mangini at least... In general I think it's ridiculous to fire a coach that has been and that sniffs the playoffs after 3 years, unless they are complete idiots. After 3 years you put a coach on the HOT SEAT... Owners and people like Woody, that run Organizations know how important continuity is to be successful... Up until the past few weeks Mangini and Woody have been absolutely Giddy... I don't think you go from that to firing Head coaches in a few weeks....IMO, head coaches get 3 years to get their plan and players in place and must be competitive and make run there after - I think people's expectations of the Jets were an unrealistic rollercoaster this year... But, NY Media - Bring it on.
 
I really don't get this. When the Jets were rolling, all I heard was how Favre changed the team. I never heard much praise for Mangini then.

Now that they are playing bad, Mangini gets all the heat and Favre, who has been terrible during the last month or so, escapes criticism from most.

QB play is the #1 difference between the Jets the first 11 games and the Jets of the last 4 games.

 
Media pounding on Mangini - he did not help himself yesterday - shows a complete lack of emotion and understanding on how his team blew the season. His playres are now reflecting his attitude with Jenkins quoted as saying that "Seattle had a lot to play for - they were fired up for Holmgrem's last game";Leon when asked if he was inspired to save his coaches job "we work every week the same"K Rhodes laughed this am when asked if he was prepared by the coaches. Clayton threw more fuel on the fire that Cower would be interested in the Jet job - Woody needs to sell PSL's and he wont have Favre to do it after the season - I don;t think he wants to do it but unless a miracle happens on Sunday it may be Mangini's last game.
I don't think Woody would fire Mangini, - BUT, Cowher is interesting to say the least.I also think the NY media is insane with the FIRE THE COACH stuff... they did this with Coughlin as well not too long ago - Maybe 13 months ago.All that said, At this point, as fed up as I am, I relish the PRESSURE, that the media is putting on Mangini at least... In general I think it's ridiculous to fire a coach that has been and that sniffs the playoffs after 3 years, unless they are complete idiots. After 3 years you put a coach on the HOT SEAT... Owners and people like Woody, that run Organizations know how important continuity is to be successful... Up until the past few weeks Mangini and Woody have been absolutely Giddy... I don't think you go from that to firing Head coaches in a few weeks....IMO, head coaches get 3 years to get their plan and players in place and must be competitive and make run there after - I think people's expectations of the Jets were an unrealistic rollercoaster this year... But, NY Media - Bring it on.
I normally agree, but Mangini has shown zero signs of improving and has actually taken a step or two backwards. While the number one criticism on Mangini is his failure to blitz, I find his inexcusably low rate of going for it on 4th down enough to say get rid of him. Guy loves field goals more than Herman Edwards.
 
Mangini's stock-in-trade was supposed to be defense, right?

2008: Jets ranked 19th in the NFL in yards allowed

2007: Ranked 18th

2006: Ranked 17th

Herm Edwards last two years with the Jets?

2005: Ranked 12th

2004: Ranked 7th

 
I really don't get this. When the Jets were rolling, all I heard was how Favre changed the team. I never heard much praise for Mangini then.

Now that they are playing bad, Mangini gets all the heat and Favre, who has been terrible during the last month or so, escapes criticism from most.

QB play is the #1 difference between the Jets the first 11 games and the Jets of the last 4 games.
I know you and the whole Favre brigade want to make everything about Brett Favre but, unfortunately for Jets fans this ship has many holes.... It wasn't many Jets fans that said Favre was the #1 difference - it was Jenkins and a defense that could stop the run that has fallen off the map recently.

NOW, We have a defense that couldn't touch a QB surrounded by 5 guys off the practice squad.

You won't here many Jets fans praising Favre - If you want to hear it "BRETT FAVRE HAS SUCKED"

But, realistically when Jets fans evaluate this team and the future - Brett Favre has been and was only a bit player, hopefully he would give us a greater upside than Chad If/When the playoffs and better defenses came, it doesn't look like that will work out but, IMO it was stil worth the shot - You don't see many Jets fans in those huge Favre threads - We all knew this was a team with MANY added parts that needed to jell....

 
Mangini's stock-in-trade was supposed to be defense, right?2008: Jets ranked 19th in the NFL in yards allowed2007: Ranked 18th2006: Ranked 17thHerm Edwards last two years with the Jets?2005: Ranked 12th2004: Ranked 7th
I'll take the personell and defense the Jets have right now over any in the Herm era... Herm flip flopped systems and made up 1 system on the fly while hiring a 3-4 guy to run the 4-3...When Chad was here, teams played tight games Vs the Jets and the defense looked better than it was... And remember in 05' the Jets lost Chad and their #2 QB plus the OL was in shambles - There was little reason for offenses to do much against the Jets Defense.This year you had games where the Jets went up by 4 TD"s and the defense sat back and the yardage rolled up....I think this defense is on the cusp of being real good - they need a new DC and they need to BLITZ...I think they hire a new DC and the guy looks like a genius next to Sutton....Once again though Stats are 'funny'.
 
I really don't get this. When the Jets were rolling, all I heard was how Favre changed the team. I never heard much praise for Mangini then. Now that they are playing bad, Mangini gets all the heat and Favre, who has been terrible during the last month or so, escapes criticism from most. QB play is the #1 difference between the Jets the first 11 games and the Jets of the last 4 games.
Yes, Favre has been terrible for a month at least. We can deny that. But honestly, for a 39 year old QB, that always had to be considered a possibility.What nobody ever considered would happen was what Mangini has done to effectivly neuter this defense, specifically Kerry Rhodes, David Harris and Calvin Pace. This team NEVER blitzes. They do absolutly nothing to put their LB's in position to make plays. We spent 2 years getting all the pieces to put a phsyical, unpredictable 3-4 defense on the field, and now that we finally have the parts, we drop then all back into coverage and let mediocre QB's pick them apart. The D-line is playing 3 vs 5 (or 6) on every passing down becuase we never send our LB's or DB's. Our best LB's (pace and harris) are spending the entire game chasing slot WR's, TE's and RB's around the field in pass coverage. Revis has been stellar, and Law has done what we expected (the dude is old afterall). I cant blame anything on Dwight Lowry. He's a rookie mid-round draft pick. He has done ok. Rhodes has been totally neutralized by the scheme. He's always playing Center field becuase Smith is too slow and Elam is too dumb to trust defending the middle of the field. Rhodes has shown that he can be a dynamic run defender and pass rusher, but he cant do either when he starts every play 20 yards off the ball. I will admit that his tackling has been poor and he's taken some bad angles. But his main impact has been, and always will be as a playmaker. Mangini's 3-8 defense has totally taken this away. There is way too much talent(and money spent) on this defense to see them be carved up like they have been. I put the blame 90% on the coaches. I honestly have no clue what they are thinking out there.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
The Jets for some bizarre reason started playing "passive defense" after the Titans game. Rushing 3 all the time. Why did they abandon what was working?

Here is the real kicker... in today's press conference, Mangini said they spent part of last week on prepping for MIAMI! WHY? Because they wanted time off this week for the holiday! Is there any wonder they collapsed in Seattle? They thought they could mail that game in, even though they almost NEVER win on the west coast regardless of the opponent.

That is ALL on Mangini. Prepping for Miami? On a short travel week to the west coast? UNACCEPTABLE.

Mangini deserves all the critisism he's getting right now. He looked past Seattle, and so did the team. How can a team on a losing streak be so complacent?

When people talk about players like Welker, Chrebet and other supposedly "low talent" players, they talk about heart, the mentality of being a "football player". Announcers will often talk about 40 times, etc, and how that fails to measure intangables, the intangables players like Welker and Chrebet possess(ed). Mangini lacks the intangables. The team followed his example. They looked past Seattle, even to the extent that they were prepping for Miami last week so they could take time off?

Mangini set the tone... a losing tone, a losing mentality. He should listen to his own BS once in a while.

 
The Jets for some bizarre reason started playing "passive defense" after the Titans game. Rushing 3 all the time. Why did they abandon what was working? Here is the real kicker... in today's press conference, Mangini said they spent part of last week on prepping for MIAMI! WHY? Because they wanted time off this week for the holiday! Is there any wonder they collapsed in Seattle? They thought they could mail that game in, even though they almost NEVER win on the west coast regardless of the opponent. That is ALL on Mangini. Prepping for Miami? On a short travel week to the west coast? UNACCEPTABLE. Mangini deserves all the critisism he's getting right now. He looked past Seattle, and so did the team. How can a team on a losing streak be so complacent? When people talk about players like Welker, Chrebet and other supposedly "low talent" players, they talk about heart, the mentality of being a "football player". Announcers will often talk about 40 times, etc, and how that fails to measure intangables, the intangables players like Welker and Chrebet possess(ed). Mangini lacks the intangables. The team followed his example. They looked past Seattle, even to the extent that they were prepping for Miami last week so they could take time off? Mangini set the tone... a losing tone, a losing mentality. He should listen to his own BS once in a while.
That is pretty unbelievable from the guy who parrots "One week at a time, it's a process" on and on...The only consolation is that, after they keep Mangini around.... I think he got taught some pretty tough lessons this year and no doubt a new DC comes in.I think this defense takes the next step and the offense resorts back to being the offense they were building Pre-Favre - a pound the ball team with a good OL - keep adding pieces to that line. Add a WR, add a safety and become a blitzing team next year.... I want a DC with the rep of "holy cow that guy loves to blitz and you never know where it's coming from".But, I listen to the radio and I hear fans talking about moves this year setting the franchise back 8 years -These people are nuts and have no idea how the NFL works these days...Any team is within 3 years of competeting. Favre didn't set anything back, it's still a team trying to develop Ratlif and/or Clemens or find a QB - a number of teams added young QB's to the lineup this year and did well , you never know. To me as long as the lines are solid and we get a DC.
 
It's hard to pinpoint any one thing that went wrong - there's enough blame to go around.

Favre definitely deserves some of the blame, as he hasn't been making throws that he was earlier in the year and even admitted that his arm isn't the same any more. But still, it's not like he was carrying the team when they were winning - that was largely due to the strong running game, solid defense that was actually disrupting the QB, and special teams play.

At the end of the day though, it has to come down to Mangini and the tone he sets for the rest of the team. Something happened - whether it's complacency or whatever - after that Titans game that made the team feel like it was entitled to the playoffs, and as head coach, it's your responsibility to keep the team focused.

I find it unfathomable that, as Rovers mentioned, he actually prepped for Miami when Seattle should have been their only focus.

 
this franchise is not set back at all. If Favre retires....

QB- Clemens and Ratliff battle it out in camp. If they suck, we'll probably suck enough to have a shot at a franchise QB in the 2010 draft

RB- TJ looks to have another year or 2 left if he's running behind a good o-line. Leon is leon (immensely talented by badly underutilized)

WR- I've been very disapointed in Cotchery. I really thought he'd stretch the seem ala Greg jennings. Still, he's an good player. coles is nearing the end of the line. Clowney and Stuckey have both show WR3 potential. Brad Smith is a gimmick offensive player. Probably not much more

TE- Keller has shown flashes of being an elite target. Should take the next step next year

OL- could use a younger potential starter for the right side, but Faneca and Woody have helped a lot

DL- Jenkins was huge early but wore down. We could use a developmental DE with some upside. Ellis is aging and very limited at this point

OLB- Pace has played well, but has been mis-cast (too much time in coverage). Gholston is still a massive queston mark. Bryan Thomas looks about done.

ILB- Harris=Stud. Barton is solid, but i believe he's a FA (and will want a raised due to his tackle numbers)

CB- Revis has become a stud. Law will be done. Lowry has shown potential. Could use a solid veteran opposite Revis to keep lowry as the nickle for a while

S- Rhodes has been a massive disapointment this year, but i dont think its his fault. Smith and Elam are passable, but that spot needs an upgrade.

The jets can rebound from this very quickly if they hit one a couple of draft picks and add some bargain FA's. One of the QB's will have to step up.

 
It's hard to pinpoint any one thing that went wrong - there's enough blame to go around.Favre definitely deserves some of the blame, as he hasn't been making throws that he was earlier in the year and even admitted that his arm isn't the same any more. But still, it's not like he was carrying the team when they were winning - that was largely due to the strong running game, solid defense that was actually disrupting the QB, and special teams play. At the end of the day though, it has to come down to Mangini and the tone he sets for the rest of the team. Something happened - whether it's complacency or whatever - after that Titans game that made the team feel like it was entitled to the playoffs, and as head coach, it's your responsibility to keep the team focused.I find it unfathomable that, as Rovers mentioned, he actually prepped for Miami when Seattle should have been their only focus.
I disagree with both of these.1) I'd imagine a lot of coaches prepped for week 17 last week. I'm sure Mangini wasn't the only one.2) I don't think you can piece-meal up the season like that. If you want to blame Mangini for the Jets collapse, you've got to credit him for getting the Jets to 8-3. Think about how the last two years all Jets fans went crazy about how great the D was the second half of the season and bad in the first.Sometimes you just have up and down halves in a season. It isn't necessarily a reflection on the coach that your bad games string together (in the first or second half) or are randomly placed throughout the year.
 
2) I don't think you can piece-meal up the season like that. If you want to blame Mangini for the Jets collapse, you've got to credit him for getting the Jets to 8-3. Think about how the last two years all Jets fans went crazy about how great the D was the second half of the season and bad in the first.Sometimes you just have up and down halves in a season. It isn't necessarily a reflection on the coach that your bad games string together (in the first or second half) or are randomly placed throughout the year.
Perhaps Mangini should get credit for the first half, and I don't think he's entirely to blame - it's not like he's out there not making plays. But, as noted, something happened to that team after the Titans game, and I don't think it was because they overachieved for the first 11 games. They seemed to have lost some sense of urgency, or passion, that was there earlier in the year. It seemed to manifest itself in the way he managed the games down the stretch.It's hard to give Mangini a pass when you see other young coaches like Mike Smith, John Harbaugh, and Tony Sparano put the pedal to the medal and not let up.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
PSL's are the key here - I honestly think that Woody does not want to fire Mangini but will have no choice if this ends in Chad being carried off the field at home in front of an angry crowd. They will want blood and Woody will have no choice.

I think he prefers to give Mangini one more shot with a real DC like romeo or Ryan. I just dont understand how he rushes 3 every time when any idiot can see that it doesnt work - I mean does he think he knows something we all dont? Results dont lie. When he does blitz they usually start about 30 yds back so they have no chance to get to the QB - the talent is there - the coaching has been putrid

As for Brett - it was fun but its over - hand the reins to Ratliff or make a play for Cassel - the way he looked this last month is inexcusable. He should save face and retire immediately.

Love the job Tanny did but never understood how he handed Chad to Miami - thats what you get for being nice - stupid.

If Jets dont win Sunday the media will be all over Woody and he may have no choice - I am plugged into a bunch of season tix holders and most of them were going to buy some sort of PSL and now they are saying no way. Not good timing for Woody at all.

 
2) I don't think you can piece-meal up the season like that. If you want to blame Mangini for the Jets collapse, you've got to credit him for getting the Jets to 8-3. Think about how the last two years all Jets fans went crazy about how great the D was the second half of the season and bad in the first.Sometimes you just have up and down halves in a season. It isn't necessarily a reflection on the coach that your bad games string together (in the first or second half) or are randomly placed throughout the year.
Perhaps Mangini should get credit for the first half, and I don't think he's entirely to blame - it's not like he's out there not making plays. But, as noted, something happened to that team after the Titans game, and I don't think it was because they overachieved for the first 11 games. They seemed to have lost some sense of urgency, or passion, that was there earlier in the year. It seemed to manifest itself in the way he managed the games down the stretch.It's hard to give Mangini a pass when you see other young coaches like Mike Smith, John Harbaugh, and Tony Sparano put the pedal to the medal and not let up.
What about Zorn?I think it's unfair and unwise to evaluate a coach on a third of a season. Mangini stinks for a lot of reasons, not because the team played really well the first 11 games and really poorly the last five, instead of really well in games 1-3, poorly in 4, really well in 5, poorly in 6, really well in 7-10, poorly in 11, really well in 12, poorly in 13, really well in 14, poorly in 15, and really well the last two weeks.
 
PSL's are the key here - I honestly think that Woody does not want to fire Mangini but will have no choice if this ends in Chad being carried off the field at home in front of an angry crowd. They will want blood and Woody will have no choice. I think he prefers to give Mangini one more shot with a real DC like romeo or Ryan. I just dont understand how he rushes 3 every time when any idiot can see that it doesnt work - I mean does he think he knows something we all dont? Results dont lie. When he does blitz they usually start about 30 yds back so they have no chance to get to the QB - the talent is there - the coaching has been putridAs for Brett - it was fun but its over - hand the reins to Ratliff or make a play for Cassel - the way he looked this last month is inexcusable. He should save face and retire immediately. Love the job Tanny did but never understood how he handed Chad to Miami - thats what you get for being nice - stupid.If Jets dont win Sunday the media will be all over Woody and he may have no choice - I am plugged into a bunch of season tix holders and most of them were going to buy some sort of PSL and now they are saying no way. Not good timing for Woody at all.
The Jets had to cut Pennington to get under the cap for Favre.
 
It's hard to pinpoint any one thing that went wrong - there's enough blame to go around.Favre definitely deserves some of the blame, as he hasn't been making throws that he was earlier in the year and even admitted that his arm isn't the same any more. But still, it's not like he was carrying the team when they were winning - that was largely due to the strong running game, solid defense that was actually disrupting the QB, and special teams play. At the end of the day though, it has to come down to Mangini and the tone he sets for the rest of the team. Something happened - whether it's complacency or whatever - after that Titans game that made the team feel like it was entitled to the playoffs, and as head coach, it's your responsibility to keep the team focused.I find it unfathomable that, as Rovers mentioned, he actually prepped for Miami when Seattle should have been their only focus.
I disagree with both of these.1) I'd imagine a lot of coaches prepped for week 17 last week. I'm sure Mangini wasn't the only one.2) I don't think you can piece-meal up the season like that. If you want to blame Mangini for the Jets collapse, you've got to credit him for getting the Jets to 8-3. Think about how the last two years all Jets fans went crazy about how great the D was the second half of the season and bad in the first.Sometimes you just have up and down halves in a season. It isn't necessarily a reflection on the coach that your bad games string together (in the first or second half) or are randomly placed throughout the year.
#1... well, ok, maybe..#2.. I could almost buy that....The problems is: Those past few years we didn't yet have all the parts and we all knew it. This team finally had the DT.....For some reason they choose to rush 3 linemen and rarely blitz - It's mind boggling.. To me, it's as if a baseball team is down by 1 in the 9th, they have bases loaded, no outs. And the 3-4-5 hitters come up and every one of em sits there and watches 3 strikes go by - Game over.. And then the very next game the same thing happens.Swing the bat at least - Send the house - Every team we play sends blitzes all over Brett favre to try to get him to toss it up... We play all these marginal QB's and makeshift OL's and sit back and give them all the time in the world. AND the defense still hemorages yardage in the passing game.Sending 3 rushers froma 3-4 defense is completely Mind Boggling to me... If this team just ran the ball EVERY FREAKING PLAY and BLITZED EVERY FREAKING PLAY, I think they would be better off.... Throw in a play action or 2 and we're golden.I'll tell ya one thing - When we had Chad every team stacked the box and blitzed like hell - AND IT WORKED.... Please don't tell me Mangini is going to play this game of "let's see if the Qb can find an open WR" with Chad... It'll be a slow death.
 
It's hard to pinpoint any one thing that went wrong - there's enough blame to go around.Favre definitely deserves some of the blame, as he hasn't been making throws that he was earlier in the year and even admitted that his arm isn't the same any more. But still, it's not like he was carrying the team when they were winning - that was largely due to the strong running game, solid defense that was actually disrupting the QB, and special teams play. At the end of the day though, it has to come down to Mangini and the tone he sets for the rest of the team. Something happened - whether it's complacency or whatever - after that Titans game that made the team feel like it was entitled to the playoffs, and as head coach, it's your responsibility to keep the team focused.I find it unfathomable that, as Rovers mentioned, he actually prepped for Miami when Seattle should have been their only focus.
I disagree with both of these.1) I'd imagine a lot of coaches prepped for week 17 last week. I'm sure Mangini wasn't the only one.2) I don't think you can piece-meal up the season like that. If you want to blame Mangini for the Jets collapse, you've got to credit him for getting the Jets to 8-3. Think about how the last two years all Jets fans went crazy about how great the D was the second half of the season and bad in the first.Sometimes you just have up and down halves in a season. It isn't necessarily a reflection on the coach that your bad games string together (in the first or second half) or are randomly placed throughout the year.
#1... well, ok, maybe..#2.. I could almost buy that....The problems is: Those past few years we didn't yet have all the parts and we all knew it. This team finally had the DT.....For some reason they choose to rush 3 linemen and rarely blitz - It's mind boggling.. To me, it's as if a baseball team is down by 1 in the 9th, they have bases loaded, no outs. And the 3-4-5 hitters come up and every one of em sits there and watches 3 strikes go by - Game over.. And then the very next game the same thing happens.Swing the bat at least - Send the house - Every team we play sends blitzes all over Brett favre to try to get him to toss it up... We play all these marginal QB's and makeshift OL's and sit back and give them all the time in the world. AND the defense still hemorages yardage in the passing game.Sending 3 rushers froma 3-4 defense is completely Mind Boggling to me... If this team just ran the ball EVERY FREAKING PLAY and BLITZED EVERY FREAKING PLAY, I think they would be better off.... Throw in a play action or 2 and we're golden.I'll tell ya one thing - When we had Chad every team stacked the box and blitzed like hell - AND IT WORKED.... Please don't tell me Mangini is going to play this game of "let's see if the Qb can find an open WR" with Chad... It'll be a slow death.
I agree the Jets don't blitz enough, but it's overstated. It's not like blitzing is always better than not blitzing, or that blitzing is even on average better than not blitzing. Mixing the blitz in, though, is the right way to do it. The Jets have also blitzed more often than people realize, but the blitz is so ineffective that it doesn't look like they're blitzing.If Gholston was a good edge rusher, then they'd blitz him. Right now, he isn't. And without a good second corner or a good nickel back, the Jets have to help them out. I'd imagine if Gholston and Lowery were playing well, the Jets would be blitzing a whole lot more. Bryan Thomas has been up and down his whole career as a rusher, and he's been a ghost these last few weeks. I think the Jets should blitz more, but they're also being picked apart when they do blitz.
 
Even if we want to assume that dropping the whole team into coverage was a good idea (which it obviously wasnt) They werent even doing it right. Mostof the time, Mangini had Harris, Pace and even Barton chasing around slot WR's, RB's and TE's. Revis locks of one side, Law does what he can on the other (and he wasnt bad from what i could see). Where's Rhodes? (who has been our best defender for the last 2 years). The answer is behind the CB's, 20 yards off the ball. This defense didnt get beat over the top all year. It got beat because we basically conceded 9-15 yard pass plays (assuming the QB and WR could connect on a pretty easy throw). Its mind boggling. It really is. If you're gonna drop guys into coverage, at least keep the LB's in a shallow zone. This way they are facing the ball, defending the short pass and arent getting gassed chasing WR's that they have no business trying to cover.

If the jets had used Rhodes correctly and teams started attacking Law and Lowry over the top, i could deal with it. If a team can complete a 30+ yard throw and catch, more power to them. But that didnt happen. We sat back like morons and played prevent defense for entire games at a time. It's like my little cousin playing Madden and keeping a dime package on the field for the entire game because he doesnt understand defenses.

 
It's hard to pinpoint any one thing that went wrong - there's enough blame to go around.Favre definitely deserves some of the blame, as he hasn't been making throws that he was earlier in the year and even admitted that his arm isn't the same any more. But still, it's not like he was carrying the team when they were winning - that was largely due to the strong running game, solid defense that was actually disrupting the QB, and special teams play. At the end of the day though, it has to come down to Mangini and the tone he sets for the rest of the team. Something happened - whether it's complacency or whatever - after that Titans game that made the team feel like it was entitled to the playoffs, and as head coach, it's your responsibility to keep the team focused.I find it unfathomable that, as Rovers mentioned, he actually prepped for Miami when Seattle should have been their only focus.
I disagree with both of these.1) I'd imagine a lot of coaches prepped for week 17 last week. I'm sure Mangini wasn't the only one.2) I don't think you can piece-meal up the season like that. If you want to blame Mangini for the Jets collapse, you've got to credit him for getting the Jets to 8-3. Think about how the last two years all Jets fans went crazy about how great the D was the second half of the season and bad in the first.Sometimes you just have up and down halves in a season. It isn't necessarily a reflection on the coach that your bad games string together (in the first or second half) or are randomly placed throughout the year.
#1... well, ok, maybe..#2.. I could almost buy that....The problems is: Those past few years we didn't yet have all the parts and we all knew it. This team finally had the DT.....For some reason they choose to rush 3 linemen and rarely blitz - It's mind boggling.. To me, it's as if a baseball team is down by 1 in the 9th, they have bases loaded, no outs. And the 3-4-5 hitters come up and every one of em sits there and watches 3 strikes go by - Game over.. And then the very next game the same thing happens.Swing the bat at least - Send the house - Every team we play sends blitzes all over Brett favre to try to get him to toss it up... We play all these marginal QB's and makeshift OL's and sit back and give them all the time in the world. AND the defense still hemorages yardage in the passing game.Sending 3 rushers froma 3-4 defense is completely Mind Boggling to me... If this team just ran the ball EVERY FREAKING PLAY and BLITZED EVERY FREAKING PLAY, I think they would be better off.... Throw in a play action or 2 and we're golden.I'll tell ya one thing - When we had Chad every team stacked the box and blitzed like hell - AND IT WORKED.... Please don't tell me Mangini is going to play this game of "let's see if the Qb can find an open WR" with Chad... It'll be a slow death.
I agree the Jets don't blitz enough, but it's overstated. It's not like blitzing is always better than not blitzing, or that blitzing is even on average better than not blitzing. Mixing the blitz in, though, is the right way to do it. The Jets have also blitzed more often than people realize, but the blitz is so ineffective that it doesn't look like they're blitzing.If Gholston was a good edge rusher, then they'd blitz him. Right now, he isn't. And without a good second corner or a good nickel back, the Jets have to help them out. I'd imagine if Gholston and Lowery were playing well, the Jets would be blitzing a whole lot more. Bryan Thomas has been up and down his whole career as a rusher, and he's been a ghost these last few weeks. I think the Jets should blitz more, but they're also being picked apart when they do blitz.
Football question here.If you run a 4-3 defense and the 4 linemen go after the QB, that's not called a blitz right?If you run a 3-4 defense and ONLY 3 men rush the passer, WTF is THAT called? To me, that's almost a Prevent D.....If you run a 3-4 Defense and the 3 down guys rush and then 1 guy rushes from somewhere else - is that technically a blitz?? To me it's not - One of the linebackers should be coming A LOT of the time from somewhere.All I'm asking for here is a normal pass rush.. Maybe asking for a "Blitz" was getting a little crazy here?I watched some of these games multiple times, in slo mo... I see a double team on Jenkins, a double team on one DE and the other DE being handled easily... And for many games now ZERO adjustments to this by the Jets defense... QB's are picking the defense apart and aren't being touched....
 
It's hard to pinpoint any one thing that went wrong - there's enough blame to go around.Favre definitely deserves some of the blame, as he hasn't been making throws that he was earlier in the year and even admitted that his arm isn't the same any more. But still, it's not like he was carrying the team when they were winning - that was largely due to the strong running game, solid defense that was actually disrupting the QB, and special teams play. At the end of the day though, it has to come down to Mangini and the tone he sets for the rest of the team. Something happened - whether it's complacency or whatever - after that Titans game that made the team feel like it was entitled to the playoffs, and as head coach, it's your responsibility to keep the team focused.I find it unfathomable that, as Rovers mentioned, he actually prepped for Miami when Seattle should have been their only focus.
I disagree with both of these.1) I'd imagine a lot of coaches prepped for week 17 last week. I'm sure Mangini wasn't the only one.2) I don't think you can piece-meal up the season like that. If you want to blame Mangini for the Jets collapse, you've got to credit him for getting the Jets to 8-3. Think about how the last two years all Jets fans went crazy about how great the D was the second half of the season and bad in the first.Sometimes you just have up and down halves in a season. It isn't necessarily a reflection on the coach that your bad games string together (in the first or second half) or are randomly placed throughout the year.
#1... well, ok, maybe..#2.. I could almost buy that....The problems is: Those past few years we didn't yet have all the parts and we all knew it. This team finally had the DT.....For some reason they choose to rush 3 linemen and rarely blitz - It's mind boggling.. To me, it's as if a baseball team is down by 1 in the 9th, they have bases loaded, no outs. And the 3-4-5 hitters come up and every one of em sits there and watches 3 strikes go by - Game over.. And then the very next game the same thing happens.Swing the bat at least - Send the house - Every team we play sends blitzes all over Brett favre to try to get him to toss it up... We play all these marginal QB's and makeshift OL's and sit back and give them all the time in the world. AND the defense still hemorages yardage in the passing game.Sending 3 rushers froma 3-4 defense is completely Mind Boggling to me... If this team just ran the ball EVERY FREAKING PLAY and BLITZED EVERY FREAKING PLAY, I think they would be better off.... Throw in a play action or 2 and we're golden.I'll tell ya one thing - When we had Chad every team stacked the box and blitzed like hell - AND IT WORKED.... Please don't tell me Mangini is going to play this game of "let's see if the Qb can find an open WR" with Chad... It'll be a slow death.
I agree the Jets don't blitz enough, but it's overstated. It's not like blitzing is always better than not blitzing, or that blitzing is even on average better than not blitzing. Mixing the blitz in, though, is the right way to do it. The Jets have also blitzed more often than people realize, but the blitz is so ineffective that it doesn't look like they're blitzing.If Gholston was a good edge rusher, then they'd blitz him. Right now, he isn't. And without a good second corner or a good nickel back, the Jets have to help them out. I'd imagine if Gholston and Lowery were playing well, the Jets would be blitzing a whole lot more. Bryan Thomas has been up and down his whole career as a rusher, and he's been a ghost these last few weeks. I think the Jets should blitz more, but they're also being picked apart when they do blitz.
Football question here.If you run a 4-3 defense and the 4 linemen go after the QB, that's not called a blitz right?If you run a 3-4 defense and ONLY 3 men rush the passer, WTF is THAT called? To me, that's almost a Prevent D.....If you run a 3-4 Defense and the 3 down guys rush and then 1 guy rushes from somewhere else - is that technically a blitz?? To me it's not - One of the linebackers should be coming A LOT of the time from somewhere.All I'm asking for here is a normal pass rush.. Maybe asking for a "Blitz" was getting a little crazy here?I watched some of these games multiple times, in slo mo... I see a double team on Jenkins, a double team on one DE and the other DE being handled easily... And for many games now ZERO adjustments to this by the Jets defense... QB's are picking the defense apart and aren't being touched....
:IBTL: The definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over again and expecting diferent results. It really does look like Mangini and Sutton went insane on the plane ride home from Nashville.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
PSL's are the key here - I honestly think that Woody does not want to fire Mangini but will have no choice if this ends in Chad being carried off the field at home in front of an angry crowd. They will want blood and Woody will have no choice. I think he prefers to give Mangini one more shot with a real DC like romeo or Ryan. I just dont understand how he rushes 3 every time when any idiot can see that it doesnt work - I mean does he think he knows something we all dont? Results dont lie. When he does blitz they usually start about 30 yds back so they have no chance to get to the QB - the talent is there - the coaching has been putridAs for Brett - it was fun but its over - hand the reins to Ratliff or make a play for Cassel - the way he looked this last month is inexcusable. He should save face and retire immediately. Love the job Tanny did but never understood how he handed Chad to Miami - thats what you get for being nice - stupid.If Jets dont win Sunday the media will be all over Woody and he may have no choice - I am plugged into a bunch of season tix holders and most of them were going to buy some sort of PSL and now they are saying no way. Not good timing for Woody at all.
The Jets had to cut Pennington to get under the cap for Favre.
I don't think there was any bonus money due - They could have traded Chad - there was a window of a few days that they knew Brett could be coming - how did they not have a plan in place to deal him to say Minny for a 7th rd pick. Can't let him land in the division to a rival. Gotta think there was some way to avoid that.
 
PSL's are the key here - I honestly think that Woody does not want to fire Mangini but will have no choice if this ends in Chad being carried off the field at home in front of an angry crowd. They will want blood and Woody will have no choice. I think he prefers to give Mangini one more shot with a real DC like romeo or Ryan. I just dont understand how he rushes 3 every time when any idiot can see that it doesnt work - I mean does he think he knows something we all dont? Results dont lie. When he does blitz they usually start about 30 yds back so they have no chance to get to the QB - the talent is there - the coaching has been putridAs for Brett - it was fun but its over - hand the reins to Ratliff or make a play for Cassel - the way he looked this last month is inexcusable. He should save face and retire immediately. Love the job Tanny did but never understood how he handed Chad to Miami - thats what you get for being nice - stupid.If Jets dont win Sunday the media will be all over Woody and he may have no choice - I am plugged into a bunch of season tix holders and most of them were going to buy some sort of PSL and now they are saying no way. Not good timing for Woody at all.
The Jets had to cut Pennington to get under the cap for Favre.
I don't think there was any bonus money due - They could have traded Chad - there was a window of a few days that they knew Brett could be coming - how did they not have a plan in place to deal him to say Minny for a 7th rd pick. Can't let him land in the division to a rival. Gotta think there was some way to avoid that.
That's what frustrates me. I could handle Chad going to an NFC team and playing well. I mean, I was a huge Chad fan and really had mixed feelings about the whole Favre signing despite me liking Favre so much. But now Chad can knock us out of the playoffs in our OWN division and get himself into the playoffs. UGH!
 
PSL's are the key here - I honestly think that Woody does not want to fire Mangini but will have no choice if this ends in Chad being carried off the field at home in front of an angry crowd. They will want blood and Woody will have no choice. I think he prefers to give Mangini one more shot with a real DC like romeo or Ryan. I just dont understand how he rushes 3 every time when any idiot can see that it doesnt work - I mean does he think he knows something we all dont? Results dont lie. When he does blitz they usually start about 30 yds back so they have no chance to get to the QB - the talent is there - the coaching has been putridAs for Brett - it was fun but its over - hand the reins to Ratliff or make a play for Cassel - the way he looked this last month is inexcusable. He should save face and retire immediately. Love the job Tanny did but never understood how he handed Chad to Miami - thats what you get for being nice - stupid.If Jets dont win Sunday the media will be all over Woody and he may have no choice - I am plugged into a bunch of season tix holders and most of them were going to buy some sort of PSL and now they are saying no way. Not good timing for Woody at all.
The Jets had to cut Pennington to get under the cap for Favre.
I don't think there was any bonus money due - They could have traded Chad - there was a window of a few days that they knew Brett could be coming - how did they not have a plan in place to deal him to say Minny for a 7th rd pick. Can't let him land in the division to a rival. Gotta think there was some way to avoid that.
No one wanted Chad and his contract. That's why it didn't happen.
 
It's hard to pinpoint any one thing that went wrong - there's enough blame to go around.Favre definitely deserves some of the blame, as he hasn't been making throws that he was earlier in the year and even admitted that his arm isn't the same any more. But still, it's not like he was carrying the team when they were winning - that was largely due to the strong running game, solid defense that was actually disrupting the QB, and special teams play. At the end of the day though, it has to come down to Mangini and the tone he sets for the rest of the team. Something happened - whether it's complacency or whatever - after that Titans game that made the team feel like it was entitled to the playoffs, and as head coach, it's your responsibility to keep the team focused.I find it unfathomable that, as Rovers mentioned, he actually prepped for Miami when Seattle should have been their only focus.
I disagree with both of these.1) I'd imagine a lot of coaches prepped for week 17 last week. I'm sure Mangini wasn't the only one.2) I don't think you can piece-meal up the season like that. If you want to blame Mangini for the Jets collapse, you've got to credit him for getting the Jets to 8-3. Think about how the last two years all Jets fans went crazy about how great the D was the second half of the season and bad in the first.Sometimes you just have up and down halves in a season. It isn't necessarily a reflection on the coach that your bad games string together (in the first or second half) or are randomly placed throughout the year.
#1... well, ok, maybe..#2.. I could almost buy that....The problems is: Those past few years we didn't yet have all the parts and we all knew it. This team finally had the DT.....For some reason they choose to rush 3 linemen and rarely blitz - It's mind boggling.. To me, it's as if a baseball team is down by 1 in the 9th, they have bases loaded, no outs. And the 3-4-5 hitters come up and every one of em sits there and watches 3 strikes go by - Game over.. And then the very next game the same thing happens.Swing the bat at least - Send the house - Every team we play sends blitzes all over Brett favre to try to get him to toss it up... We play all these marginal QB's and makeshift OL's and sit back and give them all the time in the world. AND the defense still hemorages yardage in the passing game.Sending 3 rushers froma 3-4 defense is completely Mind Boggling to me... If this team just ran the ball EVERY FREAKING PLAY and BLITZED EVERY FREAKING PLAY, I think they would be better off.... Throw in a play action or 2 and we're golden.I'll tell ya one thing - When we had Chad every team stacked the box and blitzed like hell - AND IT WORKED.... Please don't tell me Mangini is going to play this game of "let's see if the Qb can find an open WR" with Chad... It'll be a slow death.
I agree the Jets don't blitz enough, but it's overstated. It's not like blitzing is always better than not blitzing, or that blitzing is even on average better than not blitzing. Mixing the blitz in, though, is the right way to do it. The Jets have also blitzed more often than people realize, but the blitz is so ineffective that it doesn't look like they're blitzing.If Gholston was a good edge rusher, then they'd blitz him. Right now, he isn't. And without a good second corner or a good nickel back, the Jets have to help them out. I'd imagine if Gholston and Lowery were playing well, the Jets would be blitzing a whole lot more. Bryan Thomas has been up and down his whole career as a rusher, and he's been a ghost these last few weeks. I think the Jets should blitz more, but they're also being picked apart when they do blitz.
Football question here.If you run a 4-3 defense and the 4 linemen go after the QB, that's not called a blitz right?If you run a 3-4 defense and ONLY 3 men rush the passer, WTF is THAT called? To me, that's almost a Prevent D.....If you run a 3-4 Defense and the 3 down guys rush and then 1 guy rushes from somewhere else - is that technically a blitz?? To me it's not - One of the linebackers should be coming A LOT of the time from somewhere.All I'm asking for here is a normal pass rush.. Maybe asking for a "Blitz" was getting a little crazy here?I watched some of these games multiple times, in slo mo... I see a double team on Jenkins, a double team on one DE and the other DE being handled easily... And for many games now ZERO adjustments to this by the Jets defense... QB's are picking the defense apart and aren't being touched....
Good points. I think the Jets are definitely not sending enough players, I just think it's being overstated by most fans.
 
PSL's are the key here - I honestly think that Woody does not want to fire Mangini but will have no choice if this ends in Chad being carried off the field at home in front of an angry crowd. They will want blood and Woody will have no choice. I think he prefers to give Mangini one more shot with a real DC like romeo or Ryan. I just dont understand how he rushes 3 every time when any idiot can see that it doesnt work - I mean does he think he knows something we all dont? Results dont lie. When he does blitz they usually start about 30 yds back so they have no chance to get to the QB - the talent is there - the coaching has been putridAs for Brett - it was fun but its over - hand the reins to Ratliff or make a play for Cassel - the way he looked this last month is inexcusable. He should save face and retire immediately. Love the job Tanny did but never understood how he handed Chad to Miami - thats what you get for being nice - stupid.If Jets dont win Sunday the media will be all over Woody and he may have no choice - I am plugged into a bunch of season tix holders and most of them were going to buy some sort of PSL and now they are saying no way. Not good timing for Woody at all.
The Jets had to cut Pennington to get under the cap for Favre.
I don't think there was any bonus money due - They could have traded Chad - there was a window of a few days that they knew Brett could be coming - how did they not have a plan in place to deal him to say Minny for a 7th rd pick. Can't let him land in the division to a rival. Gotta think there was some way to avoid that.
No one wanted Chad and his contract. That's why it didn't happen.
And you know this how? Everything I read said that they released him to "do right by chad" - taking them at their word it was a colossal mistake.
 
Well the collapse is complete - never been more disgusted at a JEt game that I can remember. IMO - MAngini has to go - can't maintain status quo after this stretch run. Give Cower the store - go get a QB - not that it will matter much - this team is cursed.

 
at least the Pats are going home too. Today played out exactly as i thought it would. At least i won my league.

 
oh well....great season by the Phins....right now it's great to be a Dolphin fan. I think it's time that Favre called it quits...amazing career but I think his sorry #### play is costing the Jets. It's time to move on.

For now...GO PHINS!!!!!

 
oh well....great season by the Phins....right now it's great to be a Dolphin fan. I think it's time that Favre called it quits...amazing career but I think his sorry #### play is costing the Jets. It's time to move on.

For now...GO PHINS!!!!!
Holy deja-vu, Batman.:packerbacker:

 
Saw Woody's comments - he must be scared to death he is losing PSL money with this collapse - I think Mangini is gone and he will go hard after Cower.

 
But now the Jets will feel the pain of Packers fans for the lat few seasons as he does his retirement dance.
Apples & oranges. Brett Favre was the Packers for so long, they had to put up with his crap. The Jets have to worry about nothing of the sort, and could easily decide to make the decision for Brett, at least as far as their team is concerned.
 
But now the Jets will feel the pain of Packers fans for the lat few seasons as he does his retirement dance.
Apples & oranges. Brett Favre was the Packers for so long, they had to put up with his crap. The Jets have to worry about nothing of the sort, and could easily decide to make the decision for Brett, at least as far as their team is concerned.
As they should - guy is done. They are not on the hook for any dead money. It was an interesting experiment - have a nice retirement. I'd rather see Ratliff battle Clemens in camp then another year of Brett.
 
I'm not a jets fan, but I may be more disgusted than this whole thread rolled into one.

good luck w/clemens Ratliff next year......

 
Last edited by a moderator:
The post-mortem on the Mangini era, in terms of defense:

2006: 18.4 PPG allowed, 331.6 ypg allowed, 5.2 yp play allowed, 36% 3rd down allowed

2007: 22.2 PPG allowed, 331.9 ypg allowed, 5.2 yp play allowed, 42% 3rd down allowed

2008: 22.2 PPG allowed, 329.4 ypg allowed, 5.2 yp play allowed, 39% 3rd down allowed

3 years at the helm. No improvement. Despite adding a number of pro bowl caliber players, the Jets defense is still mediocre at best.

 
Presser at 10am without Mangini - multiple sources say Eric is gone

Wow - if true his fate was sealed before the Miami game - PSL's talk!

 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top