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Another plane crash: Germanwings A320

Fat Nick said:
fred_1_15301 said:
Just for my own information, if the pilots had passed out due to decompression, can I assume that everyone on the plane was unconscious well before the plane crashed?
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Depends I guess. In a "normal" situation, both the pilot and the passengers should have had access to oxygen. That's why those masks drop down. If that's what happened, then either:

-The decompression event damaged the oxygen supply, in which case, yes, most likely everyone was unconscious

-The decompression event damaged the pilot's cabin oxygen supply (but they typically have aux oxygen in a tank), and the passengers might have had access to their masks

-The decompression event was explosive in nature, which could've completely incapacitated everyone very quickly...I'd say this is doubtful. It's a rare event, and contrasts with auto-pilot doing a slow descent...somebody had to program that. Also, this would probably mean there is debris elsewhere from the decompression event as it would almost definately be structurally damaging.

I find it curious that in the Malaysia air crash, they jumped right to pilot suicide/terrorism so quickly, but in this one, they haven't really gone far down that route, yet both have minimal communication and similar "not sure what happened" circumstances.

ETA: Man...there's substance in this thread.
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This one reminds me more of the Greek crash several years back. Am I remembering this right- weren't there jets following it, seeing passed out pilots, passengers before it hit the mountain?

 
:unsure:

A senior military official involved in the investigation described “very smooth, very cool” conversation between the pilots during the early part of the flight from Barcelona to Düsseldorf. Then the audio indicated that one of the pilots left the cockpit and could not re-enter.

“The guy outside is knocking lightly on the door and there is no answer,” the investigator said. “And then he hits the door stronger and no answer. There is never an answer.”

He said, “You can hear he is trying to smash the door down.”

While the audio seemed to give some insight into the circumstances leading up to the crash, it also left many questions unanswered.


"We don’t know yet the reason why one of the guys went out,” said the official, who requested anonymity because the investigation is continuing. "But what is sure is that at the very end of the flight, the other pilot is alone and does not open the door."
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NYT website

 
Swing 51 said:
:unsure:

A senior military official involved in the investigation described “very smooth, very cool” conversation between the pilots during the early part of the flight from Barcelona to Düsseldorf. Then the audio indicated that one of the pilots left the cockpit and could not re-enter.

“The guy outside is knocking lightly on the door and there is no answer,” the investigator said. “And then he hits the door stronger and no answer. There is never an answer.”

He said, “You can hear he is trying to smash the door down.”

While the audio seemed to give some insight into the circumstances leading up to the crash, it also left many questions unanswered.


"We don’t know yet the reason why one of the guys went out,” said the official, who requested anonymity because the investigation is continuing. "But what is sure is that at the very end of the flight, the other pilot is alone and does not open the door."
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NYT website
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Uh oh

 
I've heard that the autopilot in Airbus aircraft cannot be overridden by the crew. If true, perhaps that may have had something to do with the crash? :shrug:

 
Leviathan said:
I've heard that the autopilot in Airbus aircraft cannot be overridden by the crew. If true, perhaps that may have had something to do with the crash? :shrug:
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:no: Airbus and Boeing have different philosophy about autopilot.

On the Boeing, a pilot can override the autopilot with a predetermined force applied on the controls. The autopilot disengages immediately when the pilot manually pushes the control column, the control wheel or depresses the rudder pedals harder than usual. A warning message *AUTOPILOT DISC* is displayed in the cockpit if the autopilot is manually or automatically disconnected.

The Airbus philosophy is different. There have been some issues on the design of the autopilots on the Airbus planes. They prefer to give more control to the computer, believing that it would eliminate pilot error.

ETA: Not a pilot. I am however in a travel status.

 
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BobbyLayne said:
Leviathan said:
I've heard that the autopilot in Airbus aircraft cannot be overridden by the crew. If true, perhaps that may have had something to do with the crash? :shrug:
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:no: Airbus and Boeing have different philosophy about autopilot.

On the Boeing, a pilot can override the autopilot with a predetermined force applied on the controls. The autopilot disengages immediately when the pilot manually pushes the control column, the control wheel or depresses the rudder pedals harder than usual. A warning message *AUTOPILOT DISC* is displayed in the cockpit if the autopilot is manually or automatically disconnected.

The Airbus philosophy is different. There have been some issues on the design of the autopilots on the Airbus planes. They prefer to give more control to the computer, believing that it would eliminate pilot error.

ETA: Not a pilot. I am however in a travel status.
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That is exactly what I am implying. Perhaps the autopilot malfunctioned on that Airbus flight causing it to essentially "Kamikaze" itself into the Alps. Dunno...

 
You said "the autopilot in Airbus aircraft cannot be overridden by the crew," which is not the case. It's just that it's a manually process to disengage while Boeing aircraft disengages the autopilot when you start flying it manually.

Anyway none of us know what happened here.

 
BobbyLayne said:
You said "the autopilot in Airbus aircraft cannot be overridden by the crew," which is not the case. It's just that it's a manually process to disengage while Boeing aircraft disengages the autopilot when you start flying it manually.

Anyway none of us know what happened here.
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Gotcha! My bad, and yes, none of us know what happened.

Can we merge the threads, por favor.

 
• 7:51 p.m. ET: One of the pilots on board Germanwings Flight 9525 was locked out of the cockpit when the plane crashed Tuesday, a senior military official told The New York Times, citing evidence from the cockpit voice recorder.
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PatsWillWin said:
• 7:51 p.m. ET: One of the pilots on board Germanwings Flight 9525 was locked out of the cockpit when the plane crashed Tuesday, a senior military official told The New York Times, citing evidence from the cockpit voice recorder.
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Rut roh

This and the Malaysian airliner flying into the ocean makes me think Al Qaeda is testing stuff for a really big operation. :tinfoilhat:

 
Well obviously that seems to eliminate the oxygen/incapacitation thing.

Is one pilot ever supposed to be alone in the cockpit? That may be a dumb question. Do they have a pilot-only bathroom in there?

 
PatsWillWin said:
Well obviously that seems to eliminate the oxygen/incapacitation thing.

Is one pilot ever supposed to be alone in the cockpit? That may be a dumb question. Do they have a pilot-only bathroom in there?
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No. Protocol is for a FA to stay in the cockpit if a pilot exits for any reason.

 
Just my honest reaction to the news that the pilot was locked out... "Oh, did the co-pilot have a heart attack? Or was he Muslim?" :unsure:

 
PatsWillWin said:
Well obviously that seems to eliminate the oxygen/incapacitation thing.

Is one pilot ever supposed to be alone in the cockpit? That may be a dumb question. Do they have a pilot-only bathroom in there?
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Not if the door was locked by the pilot, they were in there alone, and then he passed out somehow.

 
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The General said:
PatsWillWin said:
Well obviously that seems to eliminate the oxygen/incapacitation thing.

Is one pilot ever supposed to be alone in the cockpit? That may be a dumb question. Do they have a pilot-only bathroom in there?
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Not if the door was locked by the pilot, they were in there alone, and then he passed out somehow.
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Putting aside the question of how the cockpit loses oxygen while the rest of the plane does not and there's no evidence of anything catastrophic happening, even if the pilot passed ou (or hey, had a heart attack, whatever) why does the plane get into a controlled descent?

 
PatsWillWin said:
The General said:
PatsWillWin said:
Well obviously that seems to eliminate the oxygen/incapacitation thing.

Is one pilot ever supposed to be alone in the cockpit? That may be a dumb question. Do they have a pilot-only bathroom in there?
Click to expand...
Not if the door was locked by the pilot, they were in there alone, and then he passed out somehow.
Click to expand...
Putting aside the question of how the cockpit loses oxygen while the rest of the plane does not and there's no evidence of anything catastrophic happening, even if the pilot passed ou (or hey, had a heart attack, whatever) why does the plane get into a controlled descent?
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Need some pilots to weigh in as to how a plane would react. I'd think if the pilot wanted to kill everyone he'd just nose dive the plane as soon as the door was locked.

 
fred_1_15301 said:
El Floppo said:
The General said:
So either pilot crashed on purpose or had a heart attack or something that knocked him out?
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guy who hit the can didn't have a key?
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According to CNN, there is no key. However, it was a major breach in policy to only have one person in that cockpit at the time.
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In the USA it is policy to have a FA in the cockpit if a pilot leaves, but has it been determined in that is the same policy in Europe?

 
meanjoegreen said:
fred_1_15301 said:
El Floppo said:
The General said:
So either pilot crashed on purpose or had a heart attack or something that knocked him out?
Click to expand...
guy who hit the can didn't have a key?
Click to expand...
According to CNN, there is no key. However, it was a major breach in policy to only have one person in that cockpit at the time.
Click to expand...
In the USA it is policy to have a FA in the cockpit if a pilot leaves, but has it been determined in that is the same policy in Europe?
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Yes this is a policy for this specific airline (at least according to CNN).

 
fred_1_15301 said:
Just for my own information, if the pilots had passed out due to decompression, can I assume that everyone on the plane was unconscious well before the plane crashed?
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I was hoping this was the case but it's looking more and more like everyone was completely aware of their impending doom :(

 
Fat Nick said:
Link

Went down in the French Alps with 144 crew and 6 passengers on board. Not expecting any survivors. The French Alps strike me as a very bad place to crash a plane.

What's up with all the plane crashes in the last year or so? I feel like there have been a lot more than usual...or maybe it's just that CNN has really taken to covering them with larger fonts...
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If airplanes were still crashing with the frequency of 40 years ago, we'd have one every 41 hours.

 
The General said:
PatsWillWin said:
The General said:
PatsWillWin said:
Well obviously that seems to eliminate the oxygen/incapacitation thing.

Is one pilot ever supposed to be alone in the cockpit? That may be a dumb question. Do they have a pilot-only bathroom in there?
Click to expand...
Not if the door was locked by the pilot, they were in there alone, and then he passed out somehow.
Click to expand...
Putting aside the question of how the cockpit loses oxygen while the rest of the plane does not and there's no evidence of anything catastrophic happening, even if the pilot passed ou (or hey, had a heart attack, whatever) why does the plane get into a controlled descent?
Click to expand...
Need some pilots to weigh in as to how a plane would react. I'd think if the pilot wanted to kill everyone he'd just nose dive the plane as soon as the door was locked.
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Or at least someone who spends a significant amount of time on piloting message boards.

 
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