Another plane crash: Germanwings A320 (1 Viewer)

[Tom Servo]

"If they knew they were going to crash, the flight attendants should be handing out snacks and water bottles to everyone." -- TX Buckeye

 

[Ditka Butkus]

So either pilot crashed on purpose or had a heart attack or something that knocked him out?

guy who hit the can didn't have a key?

According to CNN, there is no key. However, it was a major breach in policy to only have one person in that cockpit at the time.

I heard on the news locally that it's standard practice in America but not in Europe.

It will be now.

 

[Swing 51]

#### that pilot!

"Deliberate attempt to destory aircraft" per Frency news conference which is ongoing.

 

[johnnycakes]

#### that pilot!

"Deliberate attempt to destory aircraft" per Frency news conference which is ongoing.

That pilot is ####ed all right. Along with everyone else onboard

 

[Swing 51]

French dude at presser says co-pilot, Andreas Lubitz, not a known terrorist. Well that is good to know!

 

[culdeus]

Religion?

 

[Keerock]

There was a "deliberate attempt to destroy the aircraft," Marseille prosecutor Brice Robin says about the Germanwings crash. The most plausible explanation of the crash is that the co-pilot, "through deliberate abstention, refused to open the cabin door ... to the chief pilot, and used the button" to cause the plane to lose altitude, Robin said. He emphasized that his conclusions were preliminary.

 

[Swing 51]

#### that pilot!

"Deliberate attempt to destory aircraft" per Frency news conference which is ongoing.

Also not sure why he said "attempt" when the aircraft did in fact crash in to a mountain and disintegrated.

 

[squidrope]

Religion?

Excellent question

 

[BobbyLayne]

"The co-pilot is alone at the controls," prosecutor Brice Robin said, drawing on information gathered from the black box recorder. "He voluntarily refused to open the door of the cockpit to the pilot and voluntarily began the descent of the plane."

 

[Apple Jack]

It will be now.

What, have a flight attendant sit up there while captain over goes to lay cable? I doubt it.

 

[Ditka Butkus]

French dude at presser says co-pilot, Andreas Lubitz, not a known terrorist. Well that is good to know!

Maybe he was just committing suicide and forgot he had 150 people with him?

 

[RUSF18]

There was a "deliberate attempt to destroy the aircraft," Marseille prosecutor Brice Robin says about the Germanwings crash. The most plausible explanation of the crash is that the co-pilot, "through deliberate abstention, refused to open the cabin door ... to the chief pilot, and used the button" to cause the plane to lose altitude, Robin said. He emphasized that his conclusions were preliminary.

Yeah good luck trying to walk that one back.

 

[Fat Nick]

why cant they build the whole plane out of the stuff they use for the black box?

Unlike the other thread, I welcome jokes of all kinds in my thread.

 

[Fat Nick]

Just for my own information, if the pilots had passed out due to decompression, can I assume that everyone on the plane was unconscious well before the plane crashed?

Depends I guess. In a "normal" situation, both the pilot and the passengers should have had access to oxygen. That's why those masks drop down. If that's what happened, then either:

-The decompression event damaged the oxygen supply, in which case, yes, most likely everyone was unconscious

-The decompression event damaged the pilot's cabin oxygen supply (but they typically have aux oxygen in a tank), and the passengers might have had access to their masks

-The decompression event was explosive in nature, which could've completely incapacitated everyone very quickly...I'd say this is doubtful. It's a rare event, and contrasts with auto-pilot doing a slow descent...somebody had to program that. Also, this would probably mean there is debris elsewhere from the decompression event as it would almost definately be structurally damaging.

I find it curious that in the Malaysia air crash, they jumped right to pilot suicide/terrorism so quickly, but in this one, they haven't really gone far down that route, yet both have minimal communication and similar "not sure what happened" circumstances.

ETA: Man...there's substance in this thread.

This one reminds me more of the Greek crash several years back. Am I remembering this right- weren't there jets following it, seeing passed out pilots, passengers before it hit the mountain?

Yup. Pilot slumped over in the cockpit too I think. Frosted windows.

 

[Quez]

The co-pilot joined the airline in 2013 right out of flight school. He only had 660 hrs logged.

Don't most of the US airlines hire ex-military? It can't be that easy to just go to a flight school and get a job sitting shotgun on an airbus.

 

[Fat Nick]

I've heard that the autopilot in Airbus aircraft cannot be overridden by the crew. If true, perhaps that may have had something to do with the crash?

Airbus and Boeing have different philosophy about autopilot.

On the Boeing, a pilot can override the autopilot with a predetermined force applied on the controls. The autopilot disengages immediately when the pilot manually pushes the control column, the control wheel or depresses the rudder pedals harder than usual. A warning message *AUTOPILOT DISC* is displayed in the cockpit if the autopilot is manually or automatically disconnected.

The Airbus philosophy is different. There have been some issues on the design of the autopilots on the Airbus planes. They prefer to give more control to the computer, believing that it would eliminate pilot error.

ETA: Not a pilot. I am however in a travel status.

I think you're right here...I've read something similar. A lack of ability to override a computer seems scary to me. (as a pilot...)

 

[Fat Nick]

They should just start flying around the mountains.

Over saves fuel. HTH

Does not.

Does too.

How much fuel does it take to climb 10000+ feet plus? Huh? If they go around the mountains they probably only have to climb to a couple of hundred feet. Pilots are stupid.

You're stupid.

j/k

 

[Rohn Jambo]

Hear the news that the pilot was locked out of the cockpit and the co-pilot is suspected of crashing the plane deliberately.

 

[beavers]

Do they have mental health screenings for pilots?

 

[Fat Nick]

The co-pilot joined the airline in 2013 right out of flight school. He only had 660 hrs logged.

Don't most of the US airlines hire ex-military? It can't be that easy to just go to a flight school and get a job sitting shotgun on an airbus.

You can work up via the civilan path. I have some friends who have done it. The issue is just getting hours. It's expensive to get the thousands of hours needed on your own dime. Best ways to get the stick time are either the military, or becoming a flight instructor, and usually transitioning to sight-seeing flights, then ultimately working your way up via regional or cargo.

 

[TheIronSheik]

Time to think about banning planes.

 

[Rohn Jambo]

With what happened to MH370 and now GermanWings! I begin to worry that someone is hypnotizing pilots or co-pilots to crash planes.

 

[Keerock]

Time to think about banning planes.

Or just pilots...

 

[Fat Nick]

Time to think about banning planes.

Or just pilots...

To be honest, most of these planes could fly themselves from destination to destination completely autonomously. The issue is just how to program them to deal with unexpected events.

Maybe the safest route is just to fly them like you do with drones. The pilots sit in some building somewhere and never actually travel. Solves a lot of problems.

 

[Fat Nick]

With what happened to MH370 and now GermanWings! I begin to worry that someone is hypnotizing pilots or co-pilots to crash planes.

I was just talking with a guy at work about this.

It's a stretch, but let's say you're Al Quaeda...let's say you realized after 9/11 that the traditional armed passenger hijacking wasn't ever going to work again. What's the next best option? Plant a mole pilot into the airlines. That would take time. You're more likely to be covert about getting a committed terrorist into a commercial pilot job than you probably would be recruiting a commercial pilot to Al Quaeda.

Working someone up throught he ranks would take time...maybe we're at the end of that "time," and there are dozens or more pilots who are actually sleeper terrorists looking for their opportunity...Scary thought.

 

[squidrope]

Time to think about banning planes.

Or just pilots...

To be honest, most of these planes could fly themselves from destination to destination completely autonomously. The issue is just how to program them to deal with unexpected events.

Maybe the safest route is just to fly them like you do with drones. The pilots sit in some building somewhere and never actually travel. Solves a lot of problems.

Have a system that will limit deviation from the flight path without approval from ground (pilot over-ride). Take control from the pilot and have the plane fly on auto.

 

[Fat Nick]

Time to think about banning planes.

Or just pilots...

To be honest, most of these planes could fly themselves from destination to destination completely autonomously. The issue is just how to program them to deal with unexpected events.

Maybe the safest route is just to fly them like you do with drones. The pilots sit in some building somewhere and never actually travel. Solves a lot of problems.

Have a system that will limit deviation from the flight path without approval from ground (pilot over-ride). Take control from the pilot and have the plane fly on auto.

That would work too...sort of a "Red button" that they could press on the ground to take control of the plane in an emergency. I guess it just depends on how fast you could identify said emergency and take over, and if it would be too late.

 

[simey]

Just for my own information, if the pilots had passed out due to decompression, can I assume that everyone on the plane was unconscious well before the plane crashed?

I was hoping this was the case but it's looking more and more like everyone was completely aware of their impending doom :(

Capt. Sully was just interviewed, and he said the passengers, especially up in the front, would absolutely have known something was wrong for about 8 minutes. He said if a pilot is locked out there is something he or she can do to re-enter, but a pilot inside the cockpit has the means to prevent that from happening.

 

[Harris]

Seems like either they know more than they're saying or the prosecutor is making a snap judgment about this deliberate thing....

Is there any way the pilot could have passed out or had some other medical incident that would cause a steep descent?

They haven't found the data recorder so perhaps once that's found there will be more info, unless they have something not being released to the public.

 

[Insein]

why cant they build the whole plane out of the stuff they use for the black box?

Because it would weigh too much.

 

[hxperson]

Time to think about banning planes.

Or just pilots...

To be honest, most of these planes could fly themselves from destination to destination completely autonomously. The issue is just how to program them to deal with unexpected events.

Maybe the safest route is just to fly them like you do with drones. The pilots sit in some building somewhere and never actually travel. Solves a lot of problems.

Have a system that will limit deviation from the flight path without approval from ground (pilot over-ride). Take control from the pilot and have the plane fly on auto.

Would it really be easier to impersonate an airline pilot, infiltrate a cabin crew, and then take over a plane, killing yourself in the process, than to hack a flight system?

I don't see how automation is the solution, and imo it would be mistake for the powers that be to move in this direction for the sake of security, at least at this point in the information age.

 

[Sinn Fein]

The co-pilot joined the airline in 2013 right out of flight school. He only had 660 hrs logged.

Don't most of the US airlines hire ex-military? It can't be that easy to just go to a flight school and get a job sitting shotgun on an airbus.

Its a discount airline, you have to figure they cut some corners...

 

[fred_1_15301]

Seems like either they know more than they're saying or the prosecutor is making a snap judgment about this deliberate thing....

Is there any way the pilot could have passed out or had some other medical incident that would cause a steep descent?

They haven't found the data recorder so perhaps once that's found there will be more info, unless they have something not being released to the public.

Everything I've read is that it was a slow decent. The French prosecutor reported today that the co-pilot's breathing was normal (which would indicate that there was not likely a medical issue). I'm sure they know a lot more than they're leading on and are pretty convinced this was deliberate.

 

[Fat Nick]

Time to think about banning planes.

Or just pilots...

To be honest, most of these planes could fly themselves from destination to destination completely autonomously. The issue is just how to program them to deal with unexpected events.

Maybe the safest route is just to fly them like you do with drones. The pilots sit in some building somewhere and never actually travel. Solves a lot of problems.

Have a system that will limit deviation from the flight path without approval from ground (pilot over-ride). Take control from the pilot and have the plane fly on auto.

Would it really be easier to impersonate an airline pilot, infiltrate a cabin crew, and then take over a plane, killing yourself in the process, than to hack a flight system?

I don't see how automation is the solution, and imo it would be mistake for the powers that be to move in this direction for the sake of security, at least at this point in the information age.

I didn't even think of hacking...good point there too. Flying is a lot more scary when you have crazy pilots to consider. I became comfortable with they physics a while ago...now the psychological side is what's bothering me.

 

[Rohn Jambo]

Seems like either they know more than they're saying or the prosecutor is making a snap judgment about this deliberate thing....

Is there any way the pilot could have passed out or had some other medical incident that would cause a steep descent?

They haven't found the data recorder so perhaps once that's found there will be more info, unless they have something not being released to the public.

They do not think the co-pilot passed out because he did something manually with the flight control.

 

[Rohn Jambo]

I'm waiting for CNN to check if anyone on the flight had fake passports...

 

[drfeelgood]

Seems like either they know more than they're saying or the prosecutor is making a snap judgment about this deliberate thing....

Is there any way the pilot could have passed out or had some other medical incident that would cause a steep descent?

They haven't found the data recorder so perhaps once that's found there will be more info, unless they have something not being released to the public.

They do not think the co-pilot passed out because he did something manually with the flight control.

The co-pilot also overrode whatever measure the pilot can take to re-enter the cockpit once locked out.

 

[Sinn Fein]

Can we merge the two threads, or was that capability lost in the Great Downgrade of '15?

 

[Fat Nick]

Seems like either they know more than they're saying or the prosecutor is making a snap judgment about this deliberate thing....

Is there any way the pilot could have passed out or had some other medical incident that would cause a steep descent?

They haven't found the data recorder so perhaps once that's found there will be more info, unless they have something not being released to the public.

They do not think the co-pilot passed out because he did something manually with the flight control.

The history of the co-pilot is now probably the key focus. Some facts here.

Can't remember if it was in this awesome thread or in the knock-off thread or not, but he had 630 flight hours. I'm not sure if that's in total or just in a commercial capacity, but that's VERY VERY low hours for a commercial pilot to be flying a A320. At least it seems so in my mind. I think the FAA regulations require 1,500 here in the US.

 

[Fat Nick]

Can we merge the two threads, or was that capability lost in the Great Downgrade of '15?

Just post here. That other thread is awful.

 

[fred_1_15301]

I don't know why but I keep thinking back to the movie Naked Gun where Nordberg is hypnotized into assassinating the queen.

 

[fred_1_15301]

I don't know why but I keep thinking back to the movie Naked Gun where Nordberg is hypnotized into assassinating the queen.

 

[Pipes]

Time to think about banning planes.

Or just pilots...

To be honest, most of these planes could fly themselves from destination to destination completely autonomously. The issue is just how to program them to deal with unexpected events.

Maybe the safest route is just to fly them like you do with drones. The pilots sit in some building somewhere and never actually travel. Solves a lot of problems.

Have a system that will limit deviation from the flight path without approval from ground (pilot over-ride). Take control from the pilot and have the plane fly on auto.

Would it really be easier to impersonate an airline pilot, infiltrate a cabin crew, and then take over a plane, killing yourself in the process, than to hack a flight system?

I don't see how automation is the solution, and imo it would be mistake for the powers that be to move in this direction for the sake of security, at least at this point in the information age.

This

 

[Ditka Butkus]

Seems like if the plane has an alarm to warn the pilots to pull up because the ground is approaching that the plane would in fact pull its self up to avoid crashing...On the other hand if that was the case, after takeoff the plane would never land. Oh well back to the drawing board.

 

[Ditka Butkus]

The co-pilot joined the airline in 2013 right out of flight school. He only had 660 hrs logged.

Don't most of the US airlines hire ex-military? It can't be that easy to just go to a flight school and get a job sitting shotgun on an airbus.

28 years old. Too ####### young to have that responsibility even if you are not crazy.

 

[Fat Nick]

Seems like if the plane has an alarm to warn the pilots to pull up because the ground is approaching that the plane would in fact pull its self up to avoid crashing...On the other hand if that was the case, after takeoff the plane would never land. Oh well back to the drawing board.

Honestly, I agree. There could easily be an airport designation on the GPS that would allow "ground contact" at airports.

I guess the challenge is that there would have to be an override if the plane had no power or something because otherwise you'd just force a stall.

 

[squidrope]

Possible solution

Flight path entered by pilot prior to take off.

Flight path approval needed by air traffic control.

If plane deviates from the flight path without ground approval.

Autopilot automatically engages and plane continues on original flight path.

Pilots lose control of plane, and plane is flown by autopilot until ATC gives control back to pilots.

 

[Ditka Butkus]

Possible solution

Flight path entered by pilot prior to take off.

Flight path approval needed by air traffic control.

If plane deviates from the flight path without ground approval.

Autopilot automatically engages and plane continues on original flight path.

Pilots lose control of plane, and plane is flown by autopilot until ATC gives control back to pilots.

Hey not bad, you have put some thought into this.

 

[Rohn Jambo]

Possible solution

Flight path entered by pilot prior to take off.

Flight path approval needed by air traffic control.

If plane deviates from the flight path without ground approval.

Autopilot automatically engages and plane continues on original flight path.

Pilots lose control of plane, and plane is flown by autopilot until ATC gives control back to pilots.

We need a quick fix first... How about puttng chamber pots in the cockpit?