Another school shooting (1 Viewer)

[Sinn Fein]

Why can't we classify these incidents as terrorism so that federal funding could be applied to upgrading the safety and security of our schools?

You don't need a terrorism label for Fed funding. And FTR, the district lost $125K this year in security funding when BHO and congress pulled it. Can't assume that it would have made a difference either way, but can't assume that it wouldn't have either.

Right, but there's a ton of $ right now being poured into the war on terror so in my opinion, this could be consistent and last for a while.

This feels like trying to kill a mosquito with a sledgehammer.Most schools have adequate security measures in place. This was a tragic incident, but no reason to expect that grade schools across America will become killing grounds. There are an average of 38 murders a day in the US, everyone tragic in its own way, we can't assign an armed guard for everyone.

 

[Short Corner]

Why can't we classify these incidents as terrorism so that federal funding could be applied to upgrading the safety and security of our schools?

You don't need a terrorism label for Fed funding. And FTR, the district lost $125K this year in security funding when BHO and congress pulled it. Can't assume that it would have made a difference either way, but can't assume that it wouldn't have either.

So with 7 schools in the district, you are insinuating that approximately 15 thousand dollars would have saved these lives. Got it. Oh and you are also insinuating that it's Obama's fault. Hmmm, got that too. Just checking. Moron.

Where did I insinuate anything? I stated explicitly that nobody knows either way whether it would have made a difference. I also never stated that this was a unilateral decision by Obama (note the usage of the term 'and').

 

[BassNBrew]

Why can't we classify these incidents as terrorism so that federal funding could be applied to upgrading the safety and security of our schools?

You don't need a terrorism label for Fed funding. And FTR, the district lost $125K this year in security funding when BHO and congress pulled it. Can't assume that it would have made a difference either way, but can't assume that it wouldn't have either.

So with 7 schools in the district, you are insinuating that approximately 15 thousand dollars would have saved these lives. Got it. Oh and you are also insinuating that it's Obama's fault. Hmmm, got that too. Just checking. Moron.

Why the name calling? If something there is incorrect then politely comment and move on.

 

[[icon]]

As everyone likely knows the heroism of Victoria Soto has been spreading like wildfire on Facebook with just cause.My question is, if Soto and the gunman are now dead, who heard her tell him the kids were in the gym?I guess its the kids in the closet, if that's the case this makes the story all the more amazing in that no kid made a sound after hearing their beloved teacher gunned down a few feet away from them

Snopes. The gym story is fake. As is the stupid Morgan freeman media rant.As is the "letter from little jimmy" or whateverPeople are stupid and will pass anything along on FB

 

[Limp Ditka]

I'm not sure if ESPN thinks its doing the right thing or not, but mentioning/refrencing this once every 10 minutes is making my skin crawl.

 

[pittstownkiller]

I'm not sure if ESPN thinks its doing the right thing or not, but mentioning/refrencing this once every 10 minutes is making my skin crawl.

In defense of ESPN, an organization I loathe, they are based in Bristol and no doubtedly feel very close to this story.

 

[beavers]

Why can't we classify these incidents as terrorism so that federal funding could be applied to upgrading the safety and security of our schools?

You don't need a terrorism label for Fed funding. And FTR, the district lost $125K this year in security funding when BHO and congress pulled it. Can't assume that it would have made a difference either way, but can't assume that it wouldn't have either.

Right, but there's a ton of $ right now being poured into the war on terror so in my opinion, this could be consistent and last for a while.

This feels like trying to kill a mosquito with a sledgehammer.Most schools have adequate security measures in place. This was a tragic incident, but no reason to expect that grade schools across America will become killing grounds. There are an average of 38 murders a day in the US, everyone tragic in its own way, we can't assign an armed guard for everyone.

I disagree that most schools have adequate security in place today. The reason why schools appear safe is that there are not many attempts to shoot up a school. But once there is, schools do not adequately respond and lives are lost. Getting on an airplane is much more stringent than entering an elementary school. And even then, one has to question the effectiveness of airline security. I don't know what the answer is but business as usual just isn't going to cut it anymore.

 

[Uwe Blab]

As everyone likely knows the heroism of Victoria Soto has been spreading like wildfire on Facebook with just cause.

My question is, if Soto and the gunman are now dead, who heard her tell him the kids were in the gym?

I guess its the kids in the closet, if that's the case this makes the story all the more amazing in that no kid made a sound after hearing their beloved teacher gunned down a few feet away from them

Snopes. The gym story is fake. As is the stupid Morgan freeman media rant.

As is the "letter from little jimmy" or whatever

People are stupid and will pass anything along on FB

I first heard the gym story from this page : My link which supposedly a good friend of Vicki Soto set up. She has since changed the text to talking about how shielded her kids which Snopes says as well. I know you're not arguing anything different, but I don't care what the story says. She's a flat out hero and I'm glad she's getting publicity. She's easily on par with Todd Beamer in selfless heroism.Now to be fair there still are amazingly huge details that no one seems to be able to answer: Like ####face's connection to the school, the mom's hobbies, etc. I'm cutting some people some slack as details still are incredibly murky and people are looking for any light in this incredible darkness.

 

[abricru]

This thread has brought out so many mixed emotions in me. Unfortunately I was not blessed with children, but, like many of us, I have been literally sick and queasy (sp?) since this horrible event. Some of the replies on this board didn't help matters. On the bright side, however, it has really warmed my heart to see what good and loving parents you footballguys are. The one of you who posted about your kid saying you were his best friend brought tears to my eyes. I'm sure at a time like this no one needs to say how lucky you are to have your precious children. They are lucky to have you as well. We just all feel so powerless to help. The only thing I can think of is to go out and get some more toys for needy kids this Christmas in memory of the children (and teachers) of Sandy Hook.

 

[Parmcat]

As everyone likely knows the heroism of Victoria Soto has been spreading like wildfire on Facebook with just cause.My question is, if Soto and the gunman are now dead, who heard her tell him the kids were in the gym?I guess its the kids in the closet, if that's the case this makes the story all the more amazing in that no kid made a sound after hearing their beloved teacher gunned down a few feet away from them

Snopes. The gym story is fake. As is the stupid Morgan freeman media rant.As is the "letter from little jimmy" or whateverPeople are stupid and will pass anything along on FB

Just curious how Snopes would be able to validate this ahead of everyone else? They are a gossip site more or less.

 

[mr roboto]

As everyone likely knows the heroism of Victoria Soto has been spreading like wildfire on Facebook with just cause.My question is, if Soto and the gunman are now dead, who heard her tell him the kids were in the gym?I guess its the kids in the closet, if that's the case this makes the story all the more amazing in that no kid made a sound after hearing their beloved teacher gunned down a few feet away from them

Snopes. The gym story is fake. As is the stupid Morgan freeman media rant.As is the "letter from little jimmy" or whateverPeople are stupid and will pass anything along on FB

Just curious how Snopes would be able to validate this ahead of everyone else? They are a gossip site more or less.

Snopes knows what happened in that classroom!!!

 

[cstu]

Why can't we classify these incidents as terrorism so that federal funding could be applied to upgrading the safety and security of our schools?

You don't need a terrorism label for Fed funding. And FTR, the district lost $125K this year in security funding when BHO and congress pulled it. Can't assume that it would have made a difference either way, but can't assume that it wouldn't have either.

Right, but there's a ton of $ right now being poured into the war on terror so in my opinion, this could be consistent and last for a while.

This feels like trying to kill a mosquito with a sledgehammer.Most schools have adequate security measures in place. This was a tragic incident, but no reason to expect that grade schools across America will become killing grounds. There are an average of 38 murders a day in the US, everyone tragic in its own way, we can't assign an armed guard for everyone.

I disagree that most schools have adequate security in place today. The reason why schools appear safe is that there are not many attempts to shoot up a school. But once there is, schools do not adequately respond and lives are lost. Getting on an airplane is much more stringent than entering an elementary school. And even then, one has to question the effectiveness of airline security. I don't know what the answer is but business as usual just isn't going to cut it anymore.

There's nothing we can do to secure a school from people like this. My daughter's school is the most secure I've ever seen (iron gates only open for 15 minutes in the morning and afternoon, doors to the school are always locked) but if someone really wanted to do something like this they easily could by doing it at the right time. The only solution would be to have armed guards at every school and I doubt people want that at their school.

 

[biggamer3]

As everyone likely knows the heroism of Victoria Soto has been spreading like wildfire on Facebook with just cause.

My question is, if Soto and the gunman are now dead, who heard her tell him the kids were in the gym?

I guess its the kids in the closet, if that's the case this makes the story all the more amazing in that no kid made a sound after hearing their beloved teacher gunned down a few feet away from them

Snopes. The gym story is fake. As is the stupid Morgan freeman media rant.

As is the "letter from little jimmy" or whatever

People are stupid and will pass anything along on FB

I first heard the gym story from this page : My link which supposedly a good friend of Vicki Soto set up. She has since changed the text to talking about how shielded her kids which Snopes says as well. I know you're not arguing anything different, but I don't care what the story says. She's a flat out hero and I'm glad she's getting publicity. She's easily on par with Todd Beamer in selfless heroism.Now to be fair there still are amazingly huge details that no one seems to be able to answer: Like ####face's connection to the school, the mom's hobbies, etc. I'm cutting some people some slack as details still are incredibly murky and people are looking for any light in this incredible darkness.

From Snopes i read about another teacher who locked the kids in the bathroom and saved all of their lives did not hear about that story until now.

 

[squistion]

As everyone likely knows the heroism of Victoria Soto has been spreading like wildfire on Facebook with just cause.

My question is, if Soto and the gunman are now dead, who heard her tell him the kids were in the gym?

I guess its the kids in the closet, if that's the case this makes the story all the more amazing in that no kid made a sound after hearing their beloved teacher gunned down a few feet away from them

Snopes. The gym story is fake. As is the stupid Morgan freeman media rant.

As is the "letter from little jimmy" or whatever

People are stupid and will pass anything along on FB

Just curious how Snopes would be able to validate this ahead of everyone else? They are a gossip site more or less.

No, they are a fact checking site that debunks rumors that are sent in chain emails or posted on message boards by people who don't have all the facts (among other things). For instance with the supposed Freeman quote, they can't find any documentation that he actually said the words attributed to him.http://www.snopes.com/politics/guns/newtown.asp

 

[Billy Bats]

From Snopes i read about another teacher who locked the kids in the bathroom and saved all of their lives did not hear about that story until now.

That's 100% true. She was interviewed by Diane Sawyer on Friday and told her story.

 

[bakes]

While this is horrible, I can't imagine crying over it unless it directly affected me. I guess I'm just a cold, heartless *******.

I started to choke up when Obama almost lost it.

Lost it a few times...once when they were interviewing the first grade teacher when she talked about telling her kids that she loved them because she thought they were all going to die and she wanted the last thing for them to know is that someone loved them. Once when Geraldo was describing what may have been happening in the room as the shooter was shooting the most helpless of victims. Victims who probably froze with fear and didn't even understand enough to run or to hide. Once when I glanced in my mirror and saw my two kids in the back seat on the way home from daycare.

He actually did that??? Dear God what a cretin. How is this news? Why is that necessary???

The media's fascination with trying to paint pictures that nobody with a heart could ever want to see is disturbing on many levels.

 

[biggamer3]

From Snopes i read about another teacher who locked the kids in the bathroom and saved all of their lives did not hear about that story until now.

That's 100% true. She was interviewed by Diane Sawyer on Friday and told her story.

one of the kids in the bathroom was telling her that he just wanted to see christmas that was all, how sad is that

 

[wikkidpissah]

Preventive lockdown thinking will always have a negative yield. The world can be an unsafe place - overreacting to randomness does more psychic harm than any madmen can do in actuality. We are a lesser society than we were a decade ago, in large part because so much time, care & resource is spent herding cats and trying to cram toothpaste back in their tubes in the wake of our national tragedy of 2001.

 

[biggamer3]

Let me preface this by saying that I can not even imagine what any parent who lost a child must be going through, its unfathomable to me. But i was little surprised that the father of little Emily Parker gave a press conference about his daughter. It was very emotional and heart wrenching, but I just couldnt understand how that came to be? Was the media contacting the families of the children to get a statement from one of them? Why would a grieving father have to tell the world how much his daughter meant to him, to me it seemed like the media was exploiting his tragedy

 

[gump]

Let me preface this by saying that I can not even imagine what any parent who lost a child must be going through, its unfathomable to me. But i was little surprised that the father of little Emily Parker gave a press conference about his daughter. It was very emotional and heart wrenching, but I just couldnt understand how that came to be? Was the media contacting the families of the children to get a statement from one of them? Why would a grieving father have to tell the world how much his daughter meant to him, to me it seemed like the media was exploiting his tragedy

Isn't he trying to raise money?

 

[biggamer3]

Preventive lockdown thinking will always have a negative yield. The world can be an unsafe place - overreacting to randomness does more psychic harm than any madmen can do in actuality. We are a lesser society than we were a decade ago, in large part because so much time, care & resource is spent herding cats and trying to cram toothpaste back in their tubes in the wake of our national tragedy of 2001.

I for one dont understand the leaps people make to try to rectify these disasters. Many people on facebook wanted teachers to be armed. Thats the answer? Mrs Sallie who is 60 years old will now have a firearm in her classroom?Even if we have the greatest security system put into every single school from now on, the next madman can just go on a Subway and shoot up 25 people and then we will call for armed Subway conductors and so on. Sometimes these things are bound to happen when we are a nation of 360M+ and we have many people with undiagnosed mental illness.

 

[biggamer3]

Let me preface this by saying that I can not even imagine what any parent who lost a child must be going through, its unfathomable to me. But i was little surprised that the father of little Emily Parker gave a press conference about his daughter. It was very emotional and heart wrenching, but I just couldnt understand how that came to be? Was the media contacting the families of the children to get a statement from one of them? Why would a grieving father have to tell the world how much his daughter meant to him, to me it seemed like the media was exploiting his tragedy

Isn't he trying to raise money?

was not aware of that, if so it is understandable

 

[Limp Ditka]

Let me preface this by saying that I can not even imagine what any parent who lost a child must be going through, its unfathomable to me. But i was little surprised that the father of little Emily Parker gave a press conference about his daughter. It was very emotional and heart wrenching, but I just couldnt understand how that came to be? Was the media contacting the families of the children to get a statement from one of them? Why would a grieving father have to tell the world how much his daughter meant to him, to me it seemed like the media was exploiting his tragedy

Just watched that on the CNN website. I have to admit that i lost it a bit. I also found myself somewhat enraged that I was railroaded into a commercial before the clip started and after it finished.Exploiting these things is pretty much the heart and soul of these networks. Especially the 24 hour news ones. Its all done in the name of ratings, awards and the all mighty dollar.

 

[whoknew]

Let me preface this by saying that I can not even imagine what any parent who lost a child must be going through, its unfathomable to me. But i was little surprised that the father of little Emily Parker gave a press conference about his daughter. It was very emotional and heart wrenching, but I just couldnt understand how that came to be? Was the media contacting the families of the children to get a statement from one of them? Why would a grieving father have to tell the world how much his daughter meant to him, to me it seemed like the media was exploiting his tragedy

I think its hard to judge him. Everyone handles and processes grief differently. Maybe he needed to talk and get things off his chest.

 

[Jewell]

one of the kids in the bathroom was telling her that he just wanted to see christmas that was all, how sad is that

Think about these poor parents on Christmas day. Six years old is the absolute wheelhouse of still believing in Santa and being super excited to wake up on Christmas morning to see what Santa brought you. What was going to be one of the better days in the lives of these parents will now just add more pain to what must already be unbearable.

 

[tri-man 47]

From Snopes i read about another teacher who locked the kids in the bathroom and saved all of their lives did not hear about that story until now.

That's 100% true. She was interviewed by Diane Sawyer on Friday and told her story.

one of the kids in the bathroom was telling her that he just wanted to see christmas that was all, how sad is that

That interview is captivating. I'd rather hear more about Roig and the other teachers, first responders, etc. than any details about the shooter. Gotta love the other little boy that told Roig he knew karate so he could lead them out.

 

[tjnc09]

Let me preface this by saying that I can not even imagine what any parent who lost a child must be going through, its unfathomable to me. But i was little surprised that the father of little Emily Parker gave a press conference about his daughter. It was very emotional and heart wrenching, but I just couldnt understand how that came to be? Was the media contacting the families of the children to get a statement from one of them? Why would a grieving father have to tell the world how much his daughter meant to him, to me it seemed like the media was exploiting his tragedy

He has two younger children so he is probably trying to look as strong as possible for them.

 

[jonessed]

Let me preface this by saying that I can not even imagine what any parent who lost a child must be going through, its unfathomable to me. But i was little surprised that the father of little Emily Parker gave a press conference about his daughter. It was very emotional and heart wrenching, but I just couldnt understand how that came to be? Was the media contacting the families of the children to get a statement from one of them? Why would a grieving father have to tell the world how much his daughter meant to him, to me it seemed like the media was exploiting his tragedy

I think its hard to judge him. Everyone handles and processes grief differently. Maybe he needed to talk and get things off his chest.

I agree. People grieve in different ways.

 

[biggamer3]

Let me preface this by saying that I can not even imagine what any parent who lost a child must be going through, its unfathomable to me. But i was little surprised that the father of little Emily Parker gave a press conference about his daughter. It was very emotional and heart wrenching, but I just couldnt understand how that came to be? Was the media contacting the families of the children to get a statement from one of them? Why would a grieving father have to tell the world how much his daughter meant to him, to me it seemed like the media was exploiting his tragedy

Just watched that on the CNN website. I have to admit that i lost it a bit. I also found myself somewhat enraged that I was railroaded into a commercial before the clip started and after it finished.Exploiting these things is pretty much the heart and soul of these networks. Especially the 24 hour news ones. Its all done in the name of ratings, awards and the all mighty dollar.

yeah thats what got me thinking a bit. Wolf Blitzer said "we get to hear from the father of one of the victims Emily when we get back" so of course I stayed there for the few minutes to hear what the father had to say, but the media is disgusting in how they will exploit anything for an extra buck, even leaving teasers to the press conference right before commercials

 

[BustedKnuckles]

Morgan Freeman's statement about these random shootings...

"You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here's why. ... It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single victim of Columbine? Disturbed people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.

CNN's article says that if the body count "holds up", this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.

You can help by forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem."

 

[biggamer3]

its a great statement but as others have pointed it there is little evidence to suggest it actually came from Morgan Freeman

 

[badmojo1006]

Morgan Freeman's statement about these random shootings..."You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here's why. ... It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single victim of Columbine? Disturbed people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.CNN's article says that if the body count "holds up", this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.You can help by forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem."

Wasn't that quote already debunked?

 

[Limp Ditka]

its a great statement but as others have pointed it there is little evidence to suggest it actually came from Morgan Freeman

But when I read it I can hear his voice....

 

[squistion]

Morgan Freeman's statement about these random shootings..."You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here's why. ... It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single victim of Columbine? Disturbed people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.CNN's article says that if the body count "holds up", this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.You can help by forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem."

Wasn't that quote already debunked?

Yes, by Snopes, and although I pointed that out in another thread the response was "Who cares who said it, it was spot on!"

 

[Apple Jack]

While this is horrible, I can't imagine crying over it unless it directly affected me. I guess I'm just a cold, heartless *******.

I started to choke up when Obama almost lost it.

Lost it a few times...once when they were interviewing the first grade teacher when she talked about telling her kids that she loved them because she thought they were all going to die and she wanted the last thing for them to know is that someone loved them. Once when Geraldo was describing what may have been happening in the room as the shooter was shooting the most helpless of victims. Victims who probably froze with fear and didn't even understand enough to run or to hide. Once when I glanced in my mirror and saw my two kids in the back seat on the way home from daycare.

He actually did that??? Dear God what a cretin. How is this news? Why is that necessary???

The media's fascination with trying to paint pictures that nobody with a heart could ever want to see is disturbing on many levels.

Yeah, that's pretty repulsive even for him.

 

[pittstownkiller]

While this is horrible, I can't imagine crying over it unless it directly affected me. I guess I'm just a cold, heartless *******.

I started to choke up when Obama almost lost it.

Lost it a few times...once when they were interviewing the first grade teacher when she talked about telling her kids that she loved them because she thought they were all going to die and she wanted the last thing for them to know is that someone loved them. Once when Geraldo was describing what may have been happening in the room as the shooter was shooting the most helpless of victims. Victims who probably froze with fear and didn't even understand enough to run or to hide. Once when I glanced in my mirror and saw my two kids in the back seat on the way home from daycare.

He actually did that??? Dear God what a cretin. How is this news? Why is that necessary???

The media's fascination with trying to paint pictures that nobody with a heart could ever want to see is disturbing on many levels.

Yeah, that's pretty repulsive even for him.

I detest Geraldo as a reprehensible human being but verbally expressing as to what he was imagining was running through their minds when he was being interviewed did not register as a major lack of compassion; he was clearly worked up talking about it and his eyes were beet red. I took his saying that as being overcome with emotion and verbalizing the images that disturbed him.

 

[Otis]

Morgan Freeman's statement about these random shootings..."You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here's why. ... It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single victim of Columbine? Disturbed people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.CNN's article says that if the body count "holds up", this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.You can help by forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem."

He never said that.

 

[Memphis Foundry]

Of all the articles I've read trying to figure out what to make of this tragedy, and what can be done to help prevent the next one, this one rings the truest to me.

It's been picked up in a few places -- Huffington Post, MSN -- with the admittedly linkbait headline "I Am Adam Lanza's Mother". I've posted the original article here with it's original title, "Thinking the Unthinkable", as the author Liza Long posted it on her blog.

Friday, December 14, 2012

Thinking the Unthinkable

In the wake of another horrific national tragedy, it’s easy to talk about guns. But it’s time to talk about mental illness.

Three days before 20 year-old Adam Lanza killed his mother, then opened fire on a classroom full of Connecticut kindergartners, my 13-year old son Michael (name changed) missed his bus because he was wearing the wrong color pants.

“I can wear these pants,” he said, his tone increasingly belligerent, the black-hole pupils of his eyes swallowing the blue irises.

“They are navy blue,” I told him. “Your school’s dress code says black or khaki pants only.”

“They told me I could wear these,” he insisted. “You’re a stupid #####. I can wear whatever pants I want to. This is America. I have rights!”

“You can’t wear whatever pants you want to,” I said, my tone affable, reasonable. “And you definitely cannot call me a stupid #####. You’re grounded from electronics for the rest of the day. Now get in the car, and I will take you to school.”

I live with a son who is mentally ill. I love my son. But he terrifies me.

A few weeks ago, Michael pulled a knife and threatened to kill me and then himself after I asked him to return his overdue library books. His 7 and 9 year old siblings knew the safety plan—they ran to the car and locked the doors before I even asked them to. I managed to get the knife from Michael, then methodically collected all the sharp objects in the house into a single Tupperware container that now travels with me. Through it all, he continued to scream insults at me and threaten to kill or hurt me.

That conflict ended with three burly police officers and a paramedic wrestling my son onto a gurney for an expensive ambulance ride to the local emergency room. The mental hospital didn’t have any beds that day, and Michael calmed down nicely in the ER, so they sent us home with a prescription for Zyprexa and a follow-up visit with a local pediatric psychiatrist.

We still don’t know what’s wrong with Michael. Autism spectrum, ADHD, Oppositional Defiant or Intermittent Explosive Disorder have all been tossed around at various meetings with probation officers and social workers and counselors and teachers and school administrators. He’s been on a slew of antipsychotic and mood altering pharmaceuticals, a Russian novel of behavioral plans. Nothing seems to work.

At the start of seventh grade, Michael was accepted to an accelerated program for highly gifted math and science students. His IQ is off the charts. When he’s in a good mood, he will gladly bend your ear on subjects ranging from Greek mythology to the differences between Einsteinian and Newtonian physics to Doctor Who. He’s in a good mood most of the time. But when he’s not, watch out. And it’s impossible to predict what will set him off.

Several weeks into his new junior high school, Michael began exhibiting increasingly odd and threatening behaviors at school. We decided to transfer him to the district’s most restrictive behavioral program, a contained school environment where children who can’t function in normal classrooms can access their right to free public babysitting from 7:30-1:50 Monday through Friday until they turn 18.

The morning of the pants incident, Michael continued to argue with me on the drive. He would occasionally apologize and seem remorseful. Right before we turned into his school parking lot, he said, “Look, Mom, I’m really sorry. Can I have video games back today?”

“No way,” I told him. “You cannot act the way you acted this morning and think you can get your electronic privileges back that quickly.”

His face turned cold, and his eyes were full of calculated rage. “Then I’m going to kill myself,” he said. “I’m going to jump out of this car right now and kill myself.”

That was it. After the knife incident, I told him that if he ever said those words again, I would take him straight to the mental hospital, no ifs, ands, or buts. I did not respond, except to pull the car into the opposite lane, turning left instead of right.

“Where are you taking me?” he said, suddenly worried. “Where are we going?”

“You know where we are going,” I replied.

“No! You can’t do that to me! You’re sending me to hell! You’re sending me straight to hell!”

I pulled up in front of the hospital, frantically waiving for one of the clinicians who happened to be standing outside. “Call the police,” I said. “Hurry.”

Michael was in a full-blown fit by then, screaming and hitting. I hugged him close so he couldn’t escape from the car. He bit me several times and repeatedly jabbed his elbows into my rib cage. I’m still stronger than he is, but I won’t be for much longer.

The police came quickly and carried my son screaming and kicking into the bowels of the hospital. I started to shake, and tears filled my eyes as I filled out the paperwork—“Were there any difficulties with....at what age did your child....were there any problems with...has your child ever experienced...does your child have....”

At least we have health insurance now. I recently accepted a position with a local college, giving up my freelance career because when you have a kid like this, you need benefits. You’ll do anything for benefits. No individual insurance plan will cover this kind of thing.

For days, my son insisted that I was lying—that I made the whole thing up so that I could get rid of him. The first day, when I called to check up on him, he said, “I hate you. And I’m going to get my revenge as soon as I get out of here.”

By day three, he was my calm, sweet boy again, all apologies and promises to get better. I’ve heard those promises for years. I don’t believe them anymore.

On the intake form, under the question, “What are your expectations for treatment?” I wrote, “I need help.”

And I do. This problem is too big for me to handle on my own. Sometimes there are no good options. So you just pray for grace and trust that in hindsight, it will all make sense.

I am sharing this story because I am Adam Lanza’s mother. I am Dylan Klebold’s and Eric Harris’s mother. I am Jason Holmes’s mother. I am Jared Loughner’s mother. I am Seung-Hui Cho’s mother. And these boys—and their mothers—need help. In the wake of another horrific national tragedy, it’s easy to talk about guns. But it’s time to talk about mental illness.

According to Mother Jones, since 1982, 61 mass murders involving firearms have occurred throughout the country. (http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/07/mass-shootings-map). Of these, 43 of the killers were white males, and only one was a woman. Mother Jones focused on whether the killers obtained their guns legally (most did). But this highly visible sign of mental illness should lead us to consider how many people in the U.S. live in fear, like I do.

When I asked my son’s social worker about my options, he said that the only thing I could do was to get Michael charged with a crime. “If he’s back in the system, they’ll create a paper trail,” he said. “That’s the only way you’re ever going to get anything done. No one will pay attention to you unless you’ve got charges.”

I don’t believe my son belongs in jail. The chaotic environment exacerbates Michael’s sensitivity to sensory stimuli and doesn’t deal with the underlying pathology. But it seems like the United States is using prison as the solution of choice for mentally ill people. According to Human Rights Watch, the number of mentally ill inmates in U.S. prisons quadrupled from 2000 to 2006, and it continues to rise—in fact, the rate of inmate mental illness is five times greater (56 percent) than in the non-incarcerated population. (http://www.hrw.org/news/2006/09/05/us-number-mentally-ill-prisons-quadrupled)

With state-run treatment centers and hospitals shuttered, prison is now the last resort for the mentally ill—Rikers Island, the LA County Jail, and Cook County Jail in Illinois housed the nation’s largest treatment centers in 2011 (http://www.npr.org/2011/09/04/140167676/nations-jails-struggle-with-mentally-ill-prisoners)

No one wants to send a 13-year old genius who loves Harry Potter and his snuggle animal collection to jail. But our society, with its stigma on mental illness and its broken healthcare system, does not provide us with other options. Then another tortured soul shoots up a fast food restaurant. A mall. A kindergarten classroom. And we wring our hands and say, “Something must be done.”

I agree that something must be done. It’s time for a meaningful, nation-wide conversation about mental health. That’s the only way our nation can ever truly heal.

God help me. God help Michael. God help us all.

Link

 

[Limp Ditka]

Read that too, MF

Has to be a living hell when you have unconditional love for a monster.

 

[Jobber]

Of all the articles I've read trying to figure out what to make of this tragedy, and what can be done to help prevent the next one, this one rings the truest to me.

It's been picked up in a few places -- Huffington Post, MSN -- with the admittedly linkbait headline "I Am Adam Lanza's Mother". I've posted the original article here with it's original title, "Thinking the Unthinkable", as the author Liza Long posted it on her blog.

Friday, December 14, 2012

Thinking the Unthinkable

In the wake of another horrific national tragedy, it’s easy to talk about guns. But it’s time to talk about mental illness.

Three days before 20 year-old Adam Lanza killed his mother, then opened fire on a classroom full of Connecticut kindergartners, my 13-year old son Michael (name changed) missed his bus because he was wearing the wrong color pants.

“I can wear these pants,” he said, his tone increasingly belligerent, the black-hole pupils of his eyes swallowing the blue irises.

“They are navy blue,” I told him. “Your school’s dress code says black or khaki pants only.”

“They told me I could wear these,” he insisted. “You’re a stupid #####. I can wear whatever pants I want to. This is America. I have rights!”

“You can’t wear whatever pants you want to,” I said, my tone affable, reasonable. “And you definitely cannot call me a stupid #####. You’re grounded from electronics for the rest of the day. Now get in the car, and I will take you to school.”

I live with a son who is mentally ill. I love my son. But he terrifies me.

A few weeks ago, Michael pulled a knife and threatened to kill me and then himself after I asked him to return his overdue library books. His 7 and 9 year old siblings knew the safety plan—they ran to the car and locked the doors before I even asked them to. I managed to get the knife from Michael, then methodically collected all the sharp objects in the house into a single Tupperware container that now travels with me. Through it all, he continued to scream insults at me and threaten to kill or hurt me.

That conflict ended with three burly police officers and a paramedic wrestling my son onto a gurney for an expensive ambulance ride to the local emergency room. The mental hospital didn’t have any beds that day, and Michael calmed down nicely in the ER, so they sent us home with a prescription for Zyprexa and a follow-up visit with a local pediatric psychiatrist.

We still don’t know what’s wrong with Michael. Autism spectrum, ADHD, Oppositional Defiant or Intermittent Explosive Disorder have all been tossed around at various meetings with probation officers and social workers and counselors and teachers and school administrators. He’s been on a slew of antipsychotic and mood altering pharmaceuticals, a Russian novel of behavioral plans. Nothing seems to work.

At the start of seventh grade, Michael was accepted to an accelerated program for highly gifted math and science students. His IQ is off the charts. When he’s in a good mood, he will gladly bend your ear on subjects ranging from Greek mythology to the differences between Einsteinian and Newtonian physics to Doctor Who. He’s in a good mood most of the time. But when he’s not, watch out. And it’s impossible to predict what will set him off.

Several weeks into his new junior high school, Michael began exhibiting increasingly odd and threatening behaviors at school. We decided to transfer him to the district’s most restrictive behavioral program, a contained school environment where children who can’t function in normal classrooms can access their right to free public babysitting from 7:30-1:50 Monday through Friday until they turn 18.

The morning of the pants incident, Michael continued to argue with me on the drive. He would occasionally apologize and seem remorseful. Right before we turned into his school parking lot, he said, “Look, Mom, I’m really sorry. Can I have video games back today?”

“No way,” I told him. “You cannot act the way you acted this morning and think you can get your electronic privileges back that quickly.”

His face turned cold, and his eyes were full of calculated rage. “Then I’m going to kill myself,” he said. “I’m going to jump out of this car right now and kill myself.”

That was it. After the knife incident, I told him that if he ever said those words again, I would take him straight to the mental hospital, no ifs, ands, or buts. I did not respond, except to pull the car into the opposite lane, turning left instead of right.

“Where are you taking me?” he said, suddenly worried. “Where are we going?”

“You know where we are going,” I replied.

“No! You can’t do that to me! You’re sending me to hell! You’re sending me straight to hell!”

I pulled up in front of the hospital, frantically waiving for one of the clinicians who happened to be standing outside. “Call the police,” I said. “Hurry.”

Michael was in a full-blown fit by then, screaming and hitting. I hugged him close so he couldn’t escape from the car. He bit me several times and repeatedly jabbed his elbows into my rib cage. I’m still stronger than he is, but I won’t be for much longer.

The police came quickly and carried my son screaming and kicking into the bowels of the hospital. I started to shake, and tears filled my eyes as I filled out the paperwork—“Were there any difficulties with....at what age did your child....were there any problems with...has your child ever experienced...does your child have....”

At least we have health insurance now. I recently accepted a position with a local college, giving up my freelance career because when you have a kid like this, you need benefits. You’ll do anything for benefits. No individual insurance plan will cover this kind of thing.

For days, my son insisted that I was lying—that I made the whole thing up so that I could get rid of him. The first day, when I called to check up on him, he said, “I hate you. And I’m going to get my revenge as soon as I get out of here.”

By day three, he was my calm, sweet boy again, all apologies and promises to get better. I’ve heard those promises for years. I don’t believe them anymore.

On the intake form, under the question, “What are your expectations for treatment?” I wrote, “I need help.”

And I do. This problem is too big for me to handle on my own. Sometimes there are no good options. So you just pray for grace and trust that in hindsight, it will all make sense.

I am sharing this story because I am Adam Lanza’s mother. I am Dylan Klebold’s and Eric Harris’s mother. I am Jason Holmes’s mother. I am Jared Loughner’s mother. I am Seung-Hui Cho’s mother. And these boys—and their mothers—need help. In the wake of another horrific national tragedy, it’s easy to talk about guns. But it’s time to talk about mental illness.

According to Mother Jones, since 1982, 61 mass murders involving firearms have occurred throughout the country. (http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/07/mass-shootings-map). Of these, 43 of the killers were white males, and only one was a woman. Mother Jones focused on whether the killers obtained their guns legally (most did). But this highly visible sign of mental illness should lead us to consider how many people in the U.S. live in fear, like I do.

When I asked my son’s social worker about my options, he said that the only thing I could do was to get Michael charged with a crime. “If he’s back in the system, they’ll create a paper trail,” he said. “That’s the only way you’re ever going to get anything done. No one will pay attention to you unless you’ve got charges.”

I don’t believe my son belongs in jail. The chaotic environment exacerbates Michael’s sensitivity to sensory stimuli and doesn’t deal with the underlying pathology. But it seems like the United States is using prison as the solution of choice for mentally ill people. According to Human Rights Watch, the number of mentally ill inmates in U.S. prisons quadrupled from 2000 to 2006, and it continues to rise—in fact, the rate of inmate mental illness is five times greater (56 percent) than in the non-incarcerated population. (http://www.hrw.org/news/2006/09/05/us-number-mentally-ill-prisons-quadrupled)

With state-run treatment centers and hospitals shuttered, prison is now the last resort for the mentally ill—Rikers Island, the LA County Jail, and Cook County Jail in Illinois housed the nation’s largest treatment centers in 2011 (http://www.npr.org/2011/09/04/140167676/nations-jails-struggle-with-mentally-ill-prisoners)

No one wants to send a 13-year old genius who loves Harry Potter and his snuggle animal collection to jail. But our society, with its stigma on mental illness and its broken healthcare system, does not provide us with other options. Then another tortured soul shoots up a fast food restaurant. A mall. A kindergarten classroom. And we wring our hands and say, “Something must be done.”

I agree that something must be done. It’s time for a meaningful, nation-wide conversation about mental health. That’s the only way our nation can ever truly heal.

God help me. God help Michael. God help us all.

Link

Great read, thanks for posting.

 

[Mystery Achiever]

Of all the articles I've read trying to figure out what to make of this tragedy, and what can be done to help prevent the next one, this one rings the truest to me.

A number of my friends shared that on Facebook. Very sobering.

 

[cstu]

"What we used to do, which I tell people was the definition of insanity [...] was they would commit an offense, the police would arrest them, they'd come to court, they'd be acting out so we would order two or three psychological evaluations at great expense, we would determine that they were incompetent to stand trial and we'd re-release them back to the community and kind of held our breath and crossed our fingers and hoped that somehow they'd get better and come back and we could try them," he says.

Instead, many disappeared and got re-arrested. Sometimes within minutes.

"They'd walk out the door, they were ill, they'd act out, because [the jail] is next to the courthouse there are several officers out there, and they'd get re-arrested," he says.

Not only was the system inefficient, it was costly as well. When Leifman asked the University of South Florida to look at who the highest users of criminal justice and mental health services in Miami-Dade County, researchers found the prime users were 97 people, individuals diagnosed primarily with schizophrenia.

"Over a five-year period, these 97 individuals were arrested almost 2,200 times and spent 27,000 days in the Miami-Dade Jail," Leifman says. "It cost the tax payers $13 million."

There's your smaller government in action, folks.

 

[Raider Nation]

I would have no problem whatsoever having one or even two armed officers in every school K through 12. In the summer, I'm sure the police department can find other details for them in order to maintain full-time status. I'm not sure why anyone would be opposed to this.

 

[sho nuff]

So now a Church service there this morning was locked down then evacuated because someone called in a death threat?

Saying something along the lines of "my friend did not finish the job"?

Also had a poster that was up there the night before vandalized with something about "this was just the beginning"?

WTF is wrong with people?

 

[Mark Davis]

All kinds of friends posting on Facebook today about how the principals should be armed, armed guards everywhere, etc. I guess the country really has fallen this far. It was only 20 years ago I was in high school and the only schools with armed guards were the absolute worst of the worst. My wife is a teacher, I know her principal, and I don't want the guy carrying a gun. Seems like a nice enough guy, but he's not anyone I'd want taking a shot at someone. He'd be much more likely to Barney Fife it and shoot his foot or if any trouble ever came up shoot a kid rather than the assailant.

 

[Raider Nation]

All kinds of friends posting on Facebook today about how the principals should be armed, armed guards everywhere, etc. I guess the country really has fallen this far. It was only 20 years ago I was in high school and the only schools with armed guards were the absolute worst of the worst. My wife is a teacher, I know her principal, and I don't want the guy carrying a gun. Seems like a nice enough guy, but he's not anyone I'd want taking a shot at someone. He'd be much more likely to Barney Fife it and shoot his foot or if any trouble ever came up shoot a kid rather than the assailant.

I wouldn't want a school official to be armed. Recipe for disaster.I'm talking about actual sworn police officers. If it costs extra taxpayer money, so be it.

 

[gsmayes]

"What we used to do, which I tell people was the definition of insanity [...] was they would commit an offense, the police would arrest them, they'd come to court, they'd be acting out so we would order two or three psychological evaluations at great expense, we would determine that they were incompetent to stand trial and we'd re-release them back to the community and kind of held our breath and crossed our fingers and hoped that somehow they'd get better and come back and we could try them," he says.

Instead, many disappeared and got re-arrested. Sometimes within minutes.

"They'd walk out the door, they were ill, they'd act out, because [the jail] is next to the courthouse there are several officers out there, and they'd get re-arrested," he says.

Not only was the system inefficient, it was costly as well. When Leifman asked the University of South Florida to look at who the highest users of criminal justice and mental health services in Miami-Dade County, researchers found the prime users were 97 people, individuals diagnosed primarily with schizophrenia.

"Over a five-year period, these 97 individuals were arrested almost 2,200 times and spent 27,000 days in the Miami-Dade Jail," Leifman says. "It cost the tax payers $13 million."

There's your smaller government in action, folks.

and Reagan's true lasting legacy.

 

[Mark Davis]

All kinds of friends posting on Facebook today about how the principals should be armed, armed guards everywhere, etc. I guess the country really has fallen this far. It was only 20 years ago I was in high school and the only schools with armed guards were the absolute worst of the worst. My wife is a teacher, I know her principal, and I don't want the guy carrying a gun. Seems like a nice enough guy, but he's not anyone I'd want taking a shot at someone. He'd be much more likely to Barney Fife it and shoot his foot or if any trouble ever came up shoot a kid rather than the assailant.

I wouldn't want a school official to be armed. Recipe for disaster.I'm talking about actual sworn police officers. If it costs extra taxpayer money, so be it.

I understand your point and appreciate that sensitivity but who foots the bill? The school system, the city or county, the state, or the federal gov't? Each one has it's own problems and the fact is our government is broke on almost every level. For instance, where I grew up the county is pretty much broke and on a shoestring and so is the school system. There were 11 schools within my county. Keep in mind this is a pretty small/low population county. Of those 11, 4 schools were in the county seat as that school had 4 separate campuses for K-3, 4-6, 7-8, 9-12. Another city had 3 schools to divide its grades. 11 full time policemen is a huge expense for a small county or system.I'd much rather use the money toward developing a working mental health system where we can try and head some of these people off before they commit these acts. If they don't commit the act at the school, they will do so at a mall, a theater, a playground, somewhere that is a soft target. Unless we go full on Iran and have armed guards on every corner we can't protect every place they might try and find a crowd or children. I think at some point we have to try and deal with the root cause rather than just the result, which is always the first reaction, myself included.

 

[shader]

I would have no problem whatsoever having one or even two armed officers in every school K through 12. In the summer, I'm sure the police department can find other details for them in order to maintain full-time status. I'm not sure why anyone would be opposed to this.

We need them manning speed traps.

 

[cosjobs]

Morgan Freeman's statement about these random shootings...

"You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here's why. ... It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single victim of Columbine? Disturbed people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.

CNN's article says that if the body count "holds up", this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.

You can help by forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem."

Wasn't that quote already debunked?

Yes, by Snopes, and although I pointed that out in another thread the response was "Who cares who said it, it was spot on!"

Perfect. If everything is to blame except gun control in this country. Beautiful piece of deflection by an NRA loyalist.If we as a nation had on significant change from these horrible, recent events, I wish it would be that the NRA loses some degree of its enormous political control and influence.