Another school shooting (1 Viewer)

[BassNBrew]

Morgan Freeman's statement about these random shootings...

"You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here's why. ... It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single victim of Columbine? Disturbed people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.

CNN's article says that if the body count "holds up", this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.

You can help by forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem."

Wasn't that quote already debunked?

Yes, by Snopes, and although I pointed that out in another thread the response was "Who cares who said it, it was spot on!"

Perfect. If everything is to blame except gun control in this country. Beautiful piece of deflection by an NRA loyalist.If we as a nation had on significant change from these horrible, recent events, I wish it would be that the NRA loses some degree of its enormous political control and influence.

1. This isn't the thread for this.2. My wish would be that it doesn't happen again, not that my political agenda garners more traction.

 

[cosjobs]

Morgan Freeman's statement about these random shootings...

"You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here's why. ... It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single victim of Columbine? Disturbed people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.

CNN's article says that if the body count "holds up", this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.

You can help by forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem."

Wasn't that quote already debunked?

Yes, by Snopes, and although I pointed that out in another thread the response was "Who cares who said it, it was spot on!"

Perfect. If everything is to blame except gun control in this country. Beautiful piece of deflection by an NRA loyalist.If we as a nation had on significant change from these horrible, recent events, I wish it would be that the NRA loses some degree of its enormous political control and influence.

1. This isn't the thread for this.2. My wish would be that it doesn't happen again, not that my political agenda garners more traction.

So what your saying its only for your side of it.

 

[The Flying Elvis]

This thread is big so I am not going to look through to see if this article has been posted yet but I apologize if it has... http://gawker.com/5968818/i-am-adam-lanzas-mother ....

I feel the article is reactionary and titled to appeal to the emotions a little too much but it also gives a little insight into the lack of options for those families and individuals who are dealing with mental illness.

 

[BassNBrew]

Morgan Freeman's statement about these random shootings...

"You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here's why. ... It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single victim of Columbine? Disturbed people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.

CNN's article says that if the body count "holds up", this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.

You can help by forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem."

Wasn't that quote already debunked?

Yes, by Snopes, and although I pointed that out in another thread the response was "Who cares who said it, it was spot on!"

Perfect. If everything is to blame except gun control in this country. Beautiful piece of deflection by an NRA loyalist.If we as a nation had on significant change from these horrible, recent events, I wish it would be that the NRA loses some degree of its enormous political control and influence.

1. This isn't the thread for this.2. My wish would be that it doesn't happen again, not that my political agenda garners more traction.

So what your saying its only for your side of it.

Nope...people starter separate threads for1. Gun control debate.

2. news coverage debate.

3. Mike Huckabee debate.

to keep this thread clean of both sides.

 

[jonessed]

All kinds of friends posting on Facebook today about how the principals should be armed, armed guards everywhere, etc. I guess the country really has fallen this far. It was only 20 years ago I was in high school and the only schools with armed guards were the absolute worst of the worst. My wife is a teacher, I know her principal, and I don't want the guy carrying a gun. Seems like a nice enough guy, but he's not anyone I'd want taking a shot at someone. He'd be much more likely to Barney Fife it and shoot his foot or if any trouble ever came up shoot a kid rather than the assailant.

I wouldn't want a school official to be armed. Recipe for disaster.I'm talking about actual sworn police officers. If it costs extra taxpayer money, so be it.

We can't even properly fund our schools in CA. Districts have been laying off teachers and cutting class days left and right.There is zero chance they can afford this unless there is a massive federal grant that pays for all of it. Even then I would rather the money go to actual education.

 

[beavers]

All kinds of friends posting on Facebook today about how the principals should be armed, armed guards everywhere, etc. I guess the country really has fallen this far. It was only 20 years ago I was in high school and the only schools with armed guards were the absolute worst of the worst. My wife is a teacher, I know her principal, and I don't want the guy carrying a gun. Seems like a nice enough guy, but he's not anyone I'd want taking a shot at someone. He'd be much more likely to Barney Fife it and shoot his foot or if any trouble ever came up shoot a kid rather than the assailant.

I wouldn't want a school official to be armed. Recipe for disaster.I'm talking about actual sworn police officers. If it costs extra taxpayer money, so be it.

We can't even properly fund our schools in CA. Districts have been laying off teachers and cutting class days left and right.There is zero chance they can afford this unless there is a massive federal grant that pays for all of it. Even then I would rather the money go to actual education.

Which is why I say classify these incidents as terrorism so it gets e right amt of funding.

 

[Standing Hampton]

Both my wife and I have had parents and friends ask us about our security measures in the event this happens at our respective schools. I would not be surprised if attendance is down tomorrow.

 

[GoBirds]

All kinds of friends posting on Facebook today about how the principals should be armed, armed guards everywhere, etc. I guess the country really has fallen this far. It was only 20 years ago I was in high school and the only schools with armed guards were the absolute worst of the worst. My wife is a teacher, I know her principal, and I don't want the guy carrying a gun. Seems like a nice enough guy, but he's not anyone I'd want taking a shot at someone. He'd be much more likely to Barney Fife it and shoot his foot or if any trouble ever came up shoot a kid rather than the assailant.

I wouldn't want a school official to be armed. Recipe for disaster.I'm talking about actual sworn police officers. If it costs extra taxpayer money, so be it.

We can't even properly fund our schools in CA. Districts have been laying off teachers and cutting class days left and right.There is zero chance they can afford this unless there is a massive federal grant that pays for all of it. Even then I would rather the money go to actual education.

Which is why I say classify these incidents as terrorism so it gets e right amt of funding.

Same with VA school funding......maybe have 1 officer that covers schools in X mile radius and nothing else. Say a mile or two, then at least these psychos would have something to worry about. Elementary schools have nothing that could stand a chance now, always assumed no one would be that sick.

 

[culdeus]

Both my wife and I have had parents and friends ask us about our security measures in the event this happens at our respective schools. I would not be surprised if attendance is down tomorrow.

In many areas there isn't school anyways. HTH

 

[BeaverCleaver]

Both my wife and I have had parents and friends ask us about our security measures in the event this happens at our respective schools. I would not be surprised if attendance is down tomorrow.

In many areas there isn't school anyways. HTH

Why is that?

 

[iamsmilin]

This thread is big so I am not going to look through to see if this article has been posted yet but I apologize if it has... http://gawker.com/5968818/i-am-adam-lanzas-mother ....

I feel the article is reactionary and titled to appeal to the emotions a little too much but it also gives a little insight into the lack of options for those families and individuals who are dealing with mental illness.

I agree that the title is reactionary but I think the emotional plea is dead on. We don't think a out these individuals until something like this happens, then we talk about "the signs" and what could have been done. Here is a woman who is seeing all the signs and saying that there are no answers (other than jail) in our society.

 

[mad sweeney]

Both my wife and I have had parents and friends ask us about our security measures in the event this happens at our respective schools. I would not be surprised if attendance is down tomorrow.

In many areas there isn't school anyways. HTH

Why is that?

Holiday. My neighbor's school in LA Unified is off.

 

[Standing Hampton]

Both my wife and I have had parents and friends ask us about our security measures in the event this happens at our respective schools. I would not be surprised if attendance is down tomorrow.

In many areas there isn't school anyways. HTH

Why is that?

Holiday. My neighbor's school in LA Unified is off.

We are off from the 22nd - 7th.

 

[BeaverCleaver]

Both my wife and I have had parents and friends ask us about our security measures in the event this happens at our respective schools. I would not be surprised if attendance is down tomorrow.

In many areas there isn't school anyways. HTH

Why is that?

Holiday. My neighbor's school in LA Unified is off.

What Holiday? Most schools aren't out until the end of this week.

 

[mad sweeney]

Both my wife and I have had parents and friends ask us about our security measures in the event this happens at our respective schools. I would not be surprised if attendance is down tomorrow.

In many areas there isn't school anyways. HTH

Why is that?

Holiday. My neighbor's school in LA Unified is off.

What Holiday? Most schools aren't out until the end of this week.

Xmas. Most = not all. Maybe hers is on an offset schedule or something.

 

[BeaverCleaver]

Both my wife and I have had parents and friends ask us about our security measures in the event this happens at our respective schools. I would not be surprised if attendance is down tomorrow.

In many areas there isn't school anyways. HTH

Why is that?

Holiday. My neighbor's school in LA Unified is off.

What Holiday? Most schools aren't out until the end of this week.

Xmas. Most = not all. Maybe hers is on an offset schedule or something.

Most schools are not out tomorrow for Christmas break.

 

[mad sweeney]

Both my wife and I have had parents and friends ask us about our security measures in the event this happens at our respective schools. I would not be surprised if attendance is down tomorrow.

In many areas there isn't school anyways. HTH

Why is that?

Holiday. My neighbor's school in LA Unified is off.

What Holiday? Most schools aren't out until the end of this week.

Xmas. Most = not all. Maybe hers is on an offset schedule or something.

Most schools are not out tomorrow for Christmas break.

Most = not all.

 

[iamsmilin]

Both my wife and I have had parents and friends ask us about our security measures in the event this happens at our respective schools. I would not be surprised if attendance is down tomorrow.

In many areas there isn't school anyways. HTH

Why is that?

Holiday. My neighbor's school in LA Unified is off.

What Holiday? Most schools aren't out until the end of this week.

Xmas. Most = not all. Maybe hers is on an offset schedule or something.

Most schools are not out tomorrow for Christmas break.

Dude. Stop arguing. He's already said that.

 

[Ursa M]

All kinds of friends posting on Facebook today about how the principals should be armed, armed guards everywhere, etc. I guess the country really has fallen this far. It was only 20 years ago I was in high school and the only schools with armed guards were the absolute worst of the worst. My wife is a teacher, I know her principal, and I don't want the guy carrying a gun. Seems like a nice enough guy, but he's not anyone I'd want taking a shot at someone. He'd be much more likely to Barney Fife it and shoot his foot or if any trouble ever came up shoot a kid rather than the assailant.

I wouldn't want a school official to be armed. Recipe for disaster.I'm talking about actual sworn police officers. If it costs extra taxpayer money, so be it.

We can't even properly fund our schools in CA. Districts have been laying off teachers and cutting class days left and right.There is zero chance they can afford this unless there is a massive federal grant that pays for all of it. Even then I would rather the money go to actual education.

I posted this in the other thread but let's say a cop costs about $1200 a day including all overhead like car, equipment, etc. There were 600 kids in that school, so maybe the same number of parents. That's $2 per parent per day, or $10 a week. Seems pretty darn cheap to me, the price of two Starbucks coffees.

 

[AAABatteries]

Touching speech by the President

 

[Otis]

Touching speech by the President

 

[Eviloutsider]

When he started filing off that list of names, that was rough.

 

[pittstownkiller]

I just got back from Newtown with my son; it was quite a surreal experience.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

Touching speech by the President

 

[shadyridr]

Beautiful

 

[Ignoratio Elenchi]

Great speech.

Loved the donks in the game thread in the Shark Pool, e.g. "I can't believe I'm going to miss 15 minutes of SNF because I don't have cable!! This is BULL####!! (Granted, I've missed every Monday night and Thursday night game all year for the same reason, but this is where I draw teh line!! I'm going to ##### about it on the internet, which coincidentally is another place where I could watch the game, but I'm not going to watch it on the internet, just complain about it on the internet!?!)"

Some people need to get their #### straightened out.

 

[hook014]

When he started filing off that list of names, that was rough.

That hurt deeply.

 

[Native]

A different perspective on the subject:

My wife feels that the gun control issue is hiding a larger, more acute problem in our country - the loss of "community" in America. She believes that more children grow up isolated relative to past generations due to greater urban sprawl and the decrease in families attending "communal" functions (YMCA, religious community, Boys Club, etc - And no were not religious!). She feels that unlike the "old days", more young families move away from their birth cities and lack a family support system of grandparents/aunts/uncles/cousins/etc. That more kids grow up in neighborhoods where they dont know their neighbors. Where many kids lack an affiliation to some sort of community that makes the world a little bit smaller and a little bit easier to digest.

If youd ask her, the end result of this phenomenon is that more kids today lack meaningful friends/family/mentors which leads to 1) an increase in the number of moderately "strange" people that lack social skills and 2) a general lack of accountability for these crazy people given that theres nothing keeping them from falling off the deep end.

I dont necessarily disagree with her. No matter what side of the political spectrum you sit, I think EVERYONE agrees that tighter gun laws alone will not completely curtail the problem - since laws cannot prevent 'crazy'. Said differently, we have a "People problem" in this country that is not being addressed. Its not prevalent among all 300+ million Americans. It doesnt even affect the majority of folks. But I think there are a worrying number of people falling through the cracks and the dialog we should be having is what can we do to stop it.

I thought it was interesting so here I am sharing. Discuss if you like.

 

[Otis]

A different perspective on the subject:My wife feels that ...

willie neslon?

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

A different perspective on the subject:My wife feels that the gun control issue is hiding a larger, more acute problem in our country - the loss of "community" in America. ::

Well there is probably an exception or two to prove the rule, but these things do tend to happen is outer suburbia.

 

[cosjobs]

A different perspective on the subject:My wife feels that the gun control issue is hiding a larger, more acute problem in our country - the loss of "community" in America. She believes that more children grow up isolated relative to past generations due to greater urban sprawl and the decrease in families attending "communal" functions (YMCA, religious community, Boys Club, etc - And no were not religious!). She feels that unlike the "old days", more young families move away from their birth cities and lack a family support system of grandparents/aunts/uncles/cousins/etc. That more kids grow up in neighborhoods where they dont know their neighbors. Where many kids lack an affiliation to some sort of community that makes the world a little bit smaller and a little bit easier to digest. If youd ask her, the end result of this phenomenon is that more kids today lack meaningful friends/family/mentors which leads to 1) an increase in the number of moderately "strange" people that lack social skills and 2) a general lack of accountability for these crazy people given that theres nothing keeping them from falling off the deep end.I dont necessarily disagree with her. No matter what side of the political spectrum you sit, I think EVERYONE agrees that tighter gun laws alone will not completely curtail the problem - since laws cannot prevent 'crazy'. Said differently, we have a "People problem" in this country that is not being addressed. Its not prevalent among all 300+ million Americans. It doesnt even affect the majority of folks. But I think there are a worrying number of people falling through the cracks and the dialog we should be having is what can we do to stop it.I thought it was interesting so here I am sharing. Discuss if you like.

How can gun control hide the issue when its the only topic in this thread that cannot be uttered?Seriously. If 25 kids had walked into a well and drowned, would it be out of place to discuss putting a fence around the well?I am a gun owner and support gun ownership. But the fact that something so pertinent in this tragedy cannot be discussed in the thread about the tragedy is mindnumbing.

 

[sporthenry]

A different perspective on the subject:My wife feels that the gun control issue is hiding a larger, more acute problem in our country - the loss of "community" in America. ::

Well there is probably an exception or two to prove the rule, but these things do tend to happen is outer suburbia.

I would be willing to bet that most school shootings occur in the city. Now these massacres tend to occur in the suburbs. Is this some overarching theme or perhaps we are just accustomed to more violence in the city? I think senseless violence like this scares the crap out of you and I both so we remember it more so than anything else.

 

[sporthenry]

A different perspective on the subject:My wife feels that the gun control issue is hiding a larger, more acute problem in our country - the loss of "community" in America. She believes that more children grow up isolated relative to past generations due to greater urban sprawl and the decrease in families attending "communal" functions (YMCA, religious community, Boys Club, etc - And no were not religious!). She feels that unlike the "old days", more young families move away from their birth cities and lack a family support system of grandparents/aunts/uncles/cousins/etc. That more kids grow up in neighborhoods where they dont know their neighbors. Where many kids lack an affiliation to some sort of community that makes the world a little bit smaller and a little bit easier to digest. If youd ask her, the end result of this phenomenon is that more kids today lack meaningful friends/family/mentors which leads to 1) an increase in the number of moderately "strange" people that lack social skills and 2) a general lack of accountability for these crazy people given that theres nothing keeping them from falling off the deep end.I dont necessarily disagree with her. No matter what side of the political spectrum you sit, I think EVERYONE agrees that tighter gun laws alone will not completely curtail the problem - since laws cannot prevent 'crazy'. Said differently, we have a "People problem" in this country that is not being addressed. Its not prevalent among all 300+ million Americans. It doesnt even affect the majority of folks. But I think there are a worrying number of people falling through the cracks and the dialog we should be having is what can we do to stop it.I thought it was interesting so here I am sharing. Discuss if you like.

How can gun control hide the issue when its the only topic in this thread that cannot be uttered?Seriously. If 25 kids had walked into a well and drowned, would it be out of place to discuss putting a fence around the well?I am a gun owner and support gun ownership. But the fact that something so pertinent in this tragedy cannot be discussed in the thread about the tragedy is mindnumbing.

This is a very good post and I respect your reasoning. I had no problem changing the thread from not discussing gun control and just the facts. When this was still developing, I completely understood that. However, as time has passed, I would agree that it is absurd that we can't talk about gun control in here while we talk about all the other possible causes like video games, mental health issues, or this lack of a support group. I would charge that those topics shouldn't have been introduced into a topic that was supposed to be about the facts.

 

[Native]

A different perspective on the subject:My wife feels that the gun control issue is hiding a larger, more acute problem in our country - the loss of "community" in America. She believes that more children grow up isolated relative to past generations due to greater urban sprawl and the decrease in families attending "communal" functions (YMCA, religious community, Boys Club, etc - And no were not religious!). She feels that unlike the "old days", more young families move away from their birth cities and lack a family support system of grandparents/aunts/uncles/cousins/etc. That more kids grow up in neighborhoods where they dont know their neighbors. Where many kids lack an affiliation to some sort of community that makes the world a little bit smaller and a little bit easier to digest. If youd ask her, the end result of this phenomenon is that more kids today lack meaningful friends/family/mentors which leads to 1) an increase in the number of moderately "strange" people that lack social skills and 2) a general lack of accountability for these crazy people given that theres nothing keeping them from falling off the deep end.I dont necessarily disagree with her. No matter what side of the political spectrum you sit, I think EVERYONE agrees that tighter gun laws alone will not completely curtail the problem - since laws cannot prevent 'crazy'. Said differently, we have a "People problem" in this country that is not being addressed. Its not prevalent among all 300+ million Americans. It doesnt even affect the majority of folks. But I think there are a worrying number of people falling through the cracks and the dialog we should be having is what can we do to stop it.I thought it was interesting so here I am sharing. Discuss if you like.

How can gun control hide the issue when its the only topic in this thread that cannot be uttered?Seriously. If 25 kids had walked into a well and drowned, would it be out of place to discuss putting a fence around the well?I am a gun owner and support gun ownership. But the fact that something so pertinent in this tragedy cannot be discussed in the thread about the tragedy is mindnumbing.

Im all for gun reform. Just trying to bring another perspective into the discussion as its a multi-faceted problem.

 

[culdeus]

All kinds of friends posting on Facebook today about how the principals should be armed, armed guards everywhere, etc. I guess the country really has fallen this far. It was only 20 years ago I was in high school and the only schools with armed guards were the absolute worst of the worst. My wife is a teacher, I know her principal, and I don't want the guy carrying a gun. Seems like a nice enough guy, but he's not anyone I'd want taking a shot at someone. He'd be much more likely to Barney Fife it and shoot his foot or if any trouble ever came up shoot a kid rather than the assailant.

I wouldn't want a school official to be armed. Recipe for disaster.I'm talking about actual sworn police officers. If it costs extra taxpayer money, so be it.

We can't even properly fund our schools in CA. Districts have been laying off teachers and cutting class days left and right.There is zero chance they can afford this unless there is a massive federal grant that pays for all of it. Even then I would rather the money go to actual education.

I posted this in the other thread but let's say a cop costs about $1200 a day including all overhead like car, equipment, etc. There were 600 kids in that school, so maybe the same number of parents. That's $2 per parent per day, or $10 a week. Seems pretty darn cheap to me, the price of two Starbucks coffees.

you can say that about just anything. And I'd bet this guy could take out that cop rather easily. He would have him outgunned and the element of surprise.

 

[Ilov80s]

A different perspective on the subject:My wife feels that the gun control issue is hiding a larger, more acute problem in our country - the loss of community" in America. She believes that more children grow up isolated relative to past generations due to greater urban sprawl and the decrease in families attending "communal" functions (YMCA, religious community, Boys Club, etc - And no were not religious!). She feels that unlike the "old days", more young families move away from their birth cities and lack a family support system of grandparents/aunts/uncles/cousins/etc. That more kids grow up in neighborhoods where they dont know their neighbors. Where many kids lack an affiliation to some sort of community that makes the world a little bit smaller and a little bit easier to digest. If youd ask her, the end result of this phenomenon is that more kids today lack meaningful friends/family/mentors which leads to 1) an increase in the number of moderately "strange" people that lack social skills and 2) a general lack of accountability for these crazy people given that theres nothing keeping them from falling off the deep end.I dont necessarily disagree with her. No matter what side of the political spectrum you sit, I think EVERYONE agrees that tighter gun laws alone will not completely curtail the problem - since laws cannot prevent 'crazy'. Said differently, we have a "People problem" in this country that is not being addressed. Its not prevalent among all 300+ million Americans. It doesnt even affect the majority of folks. But I think there are a worrying number of people falling through the cracks and the dialog we should be having is what can we do to stop it.I thought it was interesting so here I am sharing. Discuss if you like.

How can gun control hide the issue when its the only topic in this thread that cannot be uttered?Seriously. If 25 kids had walked into a well and drowned, would it be out of place to discuss putting a fence around the well?I am a gun owner and support gun ownership. But the fact that something so pertinent in this tragedy cannot be discussed in the thread about the tragedy is mindnumbing.

Im all for gun reform. Just trying to bring another perspective into the discussion as its a multi-faceted problem.

Your wife is right. America is not a healthy place.

 

[flapgreen]

I can't stand Obama, but he did a good job there.

 

[cosjobs]

A different perspective on the subject:My wife feels that the gun control issue is hiding a larger, more acute problem in our country - the loss of "community" in America. She believes that more children grow up isolated relative to past generations due to greater urban sprawl and the decrease in families attending "communal" functions (YMCA, religious community, Boys Club, etc - And no were not religious!). She feels that unlike the "old days", more young families move away from their birth cities and lack a family support system of grandparents/aunts/uncles/cousins/etc. That more kids grow up in neighborhoods where they dont know their neighbors. Where many kids lack an affiliation to some sort of community that makes the world a little bit smaller and a little bit easier to digest. If youd ask her, the end result of this phenomenon is that more kids today lack meaningful friends/family/mentors which leads to 1) an increase in the number of moderately "strange" people that lack social skills and 2) a general lack of accountability for these crazy people given that theres nothing keeping them from falling off the deep end.I dont necessarily disagree with her. No matter what side of the political spectrum you sit, I think EVERYONE agrees that tighter gun laws alone will not completely curtail the problem - since laws cannot prevent 'crazy'. Said differently, we have a "People problem" in this country that is not being addressed. Its not prevalent among all 300+ million Americans. It doesnt even affect the majority of folks. But I think there are a worrying number of people falling through the cracks and the dialog we should be having is what can we do to stop it.I thought it was interesting so here I am sharing. Discuss if you like.

How can gun control hide the issue when its the only topic in this thread that cannot be uttered?Seriously. If 25 kids had walked into a well and drowned, would it be out of place to discuss putting a fence around the well?I am a gun owner and support gun ownership. But the fact that something so pertinent in this tragedy cannot be discussed in the thread about the tragedy is mindnumbing.

Im all for gun reform. Just trying to bring another perspective into the discussion as its a multi-faceted problem.

Yes, I agree with you. We should discuss all perspectives of possible solutions in this thread. My beef was that discussing "gun control" was off limits while every other imaginable cause was brought up without any restriction. It was the elephant in the room we we not permitted to acknowledge. Its time for us as a country to look where we are.

 

[Ursa M]

All kinds of friends posting on Facebook today about how the principals should be armed, armed guards everywhere, etc. I guess the country really has fallen this far. It was only 20 years ago I was in high school and the only schools with armed guards were the absolute worst of the worst. My wife is a teacher, I know her principal, and I don't want the guy carrying a gun. Seems like a nice enough guy, but he's not anyone I'd want taking a shot at someone. He'd be much more likely to Barney Fife it and shoot his foot or if any trouble ever came up shoot a kid rather than the assailant.

I wouldn't want a school official to be armed. Recipe for disaster.I'm talking about actual sworn police officers. If it costs extra taxpayer money, so be it.

We can't even properly fund our schools in CA. Districts have been laying off teachers and cutting class days left and right.There is zero chance they can afford this unless there is a massive federal grant that pays for all of it. Even then I would rather the money go to actual education.

I posted this in the other thread but let's say a cop costs about $1200 a day including all overhead like car, equipment, etc. There were 600 kids in that school, so maybe the same number of parents. That's $2 per parent per day, or $10 a week. Seems pretty darn cheap to me, the price of two Starbucks coffees.

you can say that about just anything. And I'd bet this guy could take out that cop rather easily. He would have him outgunned and the element of surprise.

The guy broke the window of the main entrance, thus sacrificing any element of surprise. Anyway, even if the cop was at the other end of the building, he'd be on the scene inside a minute. On top of that, if it's known that all schools had an armed cop, that would surely be some deterrent.

 

[cosjobs]

Just spitballing here, but how about if half a dozen parents (or more) patrolled campuses during school hours to alert authorities of strangers on the grounds? Some of them could just sit in their cars eating donuts and listening to the radio.

Seems like it could be done as volunteers, so no cost. And after an incident like this, it seems as if there would be no shortage of volunteers.

 

[Stinger Ray]

Just spitballing here, but how about if half a dozen parents (or more) patrolled campuses during school hours to alert authorities of strangers on the grounds? Some of them could just sit in their cars eating donuts and listening to the radio. Seems like it could be done as volunteers, so no cost. And after an incident like this, it seems as if there would be no shortage of volunteers.

How are those parents going to prevent a shooting?

 

[sporthenry]

Food for thought about the whole police on school grounds debate. I also saw a study that said police officers on campuses didn't really affect the crime rate but I can't find it so if I do I'll link it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/09/opinion/sunday/take-police-officers-off-the-school-discipline-beat.html?pagewanted=all

 

[cosjobs]

Just spitballing here, but how about if half a dozen parents (or more) patrolled campuses during school hours to alert authorities of strangers on the grounds? Some of them could just sit in their cars eating donuts and listening to the radio. Seems like it could be done as volunteers, so no cost. And after an incident like this, it seems as if there would be no shortage of volunteers.

How are those parents going to prevent a shooting?

How does a barking dog prevent a burglary?Making noise when a bad guy approaches, often keeps the bad guy away.If two moms on cell phones had been calling the achool and/or police when this guy came up to the Newtown school, maybe he would have moved along or been stopped or apprehended before so much carnage.

 

[Native]

A different perspective on the subject:My wife feels that the gun control issue is hiding a larger, more acute problem in our country - the loss of "community" in America. She believes that more children grow up isolated relative to past generations due to greater urban sprawl and the decrease in families attending "communal" functions (YMCA, religious community, Boys Club, etc - And no were not religious!). She feels that unlike the "old days", more young families move away from their birth cities and lack a family support system of grandparents/aunts/uncles/cousins/etc. That more kids grow up in neighborhoods where they dont know their neighbors. Where many kids lack an affiliation to some sort of community that makes the world a little bit smaller and a little bit easier to digest. If youd ask her, the end result of this phenomenon is that more kids today lack meaningful friends/family/mentors which leads to 1) an increase in the number of moderately "strange" people that lack social skills and 2) a general lack of accountability for these crazy people given that theres nothing keeping them from falling off the deep end.I dont necessarily disagree with her. No matter what side of the political spectrum you sit, I think EVERYONE agrees that tighter gun laws alone will not completely curtail the problem - since laws cannot prevent 'crazy'. Said differently, we have a "People problem" in this country that is not being addressed. Its not prevalent among all 300+ million Americans. It doesnt even affect the majority of folks. But I think there are a worrying number of people falling through the cracks and the dialog we should be having is what can we do to stop it.I thought it was interesting so here I am sharing. Discuss if you like.

How can gun control hide the issue when its the only topic in this thread that cannot be uttered?Seriously. If 25 kids had walked into a well and drowned, would it be out of place to discuss putting a fence around the well?I am a gun owner and support gun ownership. But the fact that something so pertinent in this tragedy cannot be discussed in the thread about the tragedy is mindnumbing.

Im all for gun reform. Just trying to bring another perspective into the discussion as its a multi-faceted problem.

Yes, I agree with you. We should discuss all perspectives of possible solutions in this thread. My beef was that discussing "gun control" was off limits while every other imaginable cause was brought up without any restriction. It was the elephant in the room we we not permitted to acknowledge. Its time for us as a country to look where we are.

Were in agreement on guns. Must have reforms. My question is - how do we help restore "normalcy"? Why do these types of crazy crimes occur in the US more than in other countries? There seems to be something with our "way of life" that sends the fringes of society to do batty things. Not bringing any solutions but identifying a possible cause above.

 

[sporthenry]

Just spitballing here, but how about if half a dozen parents (or more) patrolled campuses during school hours to alert authorities of strangers on the grounds? Some of them could just sit in their cars eating donuts and listening to the radio. Seems like it could be done as volunteers, so no cost. And after an incident like this, it seems as if there would be no shortage of volunteers.

How are those parents going to prevent a shooting?

How does a barking dog prevent a burglary?Making noise when a bad guy approaches, often keeps the bad guy away.If two moms on cell phones had been calling the achool and/or police when this guy came up to the Newtown school, maybe he would have moved along or been stopped or apprehended before so much carnage.

I liked your post about talking about gun control but not sure about this. This guy was wearing a vest so obviously he was coming to get shot and the fact he shot himself shows he wasn't just going to be deterred. If parents made noise trying to scare him like a dog, he would have just shot them. A barking dog deterring burglaries does so b/c it either draws attention to the situation or he doesn't want to get in a confrontation and get bitten. This guy was looking for a fight, not a quick score of a computer and I think the differences are immense.

 

[Stinger Ray]

Just spitballing here, but how about if half a dozen parents (or more) patrolled campuses during school hours to alert authorities of strangers on the grounds? Some of them could just sit in their cars eating donuts and listening to the radio. Seems like it could be done as volunteers, so no cost. And after an incident like this, it seems as if there would be no shortage of volunteers.

How are those parents going to prevent a shooting?

How does a barking dog prevent a burglary?Making noise when a bad guy approaches, often keeps the bad guy away.If two moms on cell phones had been calling the achool and/or police when this guy came up to the Newtown school, maybe he would have moved along or been stopped or apprehended before so much carnage.

Wow....are you that naive to think that these killers would be deterred by a mom on a cell phone?

 

[Henry Ford]

A different perspective on the subject:My wife feels that the gun control issue is hiding a larger, more acute problem in our country - the loss of "community" in America. She believes that more children grow up isolated relative to past generations due to greater urban sprawl and the decrease in families attending "communal" functions (YMCA, religious community, Boys Club, etc - And no were not religious!). She feels that unlike the "old days", more young families move away from their birth cities and lack a family support system of grandparents/aunts/uncles/cousins/etc. That more kids grow up in neighborhoods where they dont know their neighbors. Where many kids lack an affiliation to some sort of community that makes the world a little bit smaller and a little bit easier to digest. If youd ask her, the end result of this phenomenon is that more kids today lack meaningful friends/family/mentors which leads to 1) an increase in the number of moderately "strange" people that lack social skills and 2) a general lack of accountability for these crazy people given that theres nothing keeping them from falling off the deep end.I dont necessarily disagree with her. No matter what side of the political spectrum you sit, I think EVERYONE agrees that tighter gun laws alone will not completely curtail the problem - since laws cannot prevent 'crazy'. Said differently, we have a "People problem" in this country that is not being addressed. Its not prevalent among all 300+ million Americans. It doesnt even affect the majority of folks. But I think there are a worrying number of people falling through the cracks and the dialog we should be having is what can we do to stop it.I thought it was interesting so here I am sharing. Discuss if you like.

How can gun control hide the issue when its the only topic in this thread that cannot be uttered?Seriously. If 25 kids had walked into a well and drowned, would it be out of place to discuss putting a fence around the well?I am a gun owner and support gun ownership. But the fact that something so pertinent in this tragedy cannot be discussed in the thread about the tragedy is mindnumbing.

Im all for gun reform. Just trying to bring another perspective into the discussion as its a multi-faceted problem.

Yes, I agree with you. We should discuss all perspectives of possible solutions in this thread. My beef was that discussing "gun control" was off limits while every other imaginable cause was brought up without any restriction. It was the elephant in the room we we not permitted to acknowledge. Its time for us as a country to look where we are.

Were in agreement on guns. Must have reforms. My question is - how do we help restore "normalcy"? Why do these types of crazy crimes occur in the US more than in other countries? There seems to be something with our "way of life" that sends the fringes of society to do batty things. Not bringing any solutions but identifying a possible cause above.

They happen here because people in this country think that pulling a trigger is an act that stops oppression. Buried in the national consciousness is this myth that guns keep the power in the hands of the people who own them here. So when people get scared and feel powerless, they reach for the power and reassurance of the gun. And in the insane, whether permanent or temporary, that can turn out as some freaky rampage.

 

[mad sweeney]

Just spitballing here, but how about if half a dozen parents (or more) patrolled campuses during school hours to alert authorities of strangers on the grounds? Some of them could just sit in their cars eating donuts and listening to the radio. Seems like it could be done as volunteers, so no cost. And after an incident like this, it seems as if there would be no shortage of volunteers.

How are those parents going to prevent a shooting?

How does a barking dog prevent a burglary?Making noise when a bad guy approaches, often keeps the bad guy away.If two moms on cell phones had been calling the achool and/or police when this guy came up to the Newtown school, maybe he would have moved along or been stopped or apprehended before so much carnage.

That may very well be a deterrent for some crimes, but when someone puts this much effort into what will end up being one of the most heinous mass killings of all time, Mom eating doughnuts calling Barney Fife to come stop a heavily armed and armored psycho isn't going to do much. These types of crimes are nearly unstoppable because they are so far from being believable. I'm not saying it has no merit in possibly preventing other things, but this, Columbine, VT, Aurora etc... nothing less than a SWAT team a block away on standby is going to do any good.

 

[General Malaise]

Just spitballing here, but how about if half a dozen parents (or more) patrolled campuses during school hours to alert authorities of strangers on the grounds? Some of them could just sit in their cars eating donuts and listening to the radio. Seems like it could be done as volunteers, so no cost. And after an incident like this, it seems as if there would be no shortage of volunteers.

How are those parents going to prevent a shooting?

How does a barking dog prevent a burglary?Making noise when a bad guy approaches, often keeps the bad guy away.If two moms on cell phones had been calling the achool and/or police when this guy came up to the Newtown school, maybe he would have moved along or been stopped or apprehended before so much carnage.

Wow....are you that naive to think that these killers would be deterred by a mom on a cell phone?

You are insulting a very smart man who brings up a great idea to help deter crime. Pretty un-excellent in my book. I like the idea. It's like a Neighborhood Watch...bet you think those are bad ideas too.

 

[General Malaise]

Just spitballing here, but how about if half a dozen parents (or more) patrolled campuses during school hours to alert authorities of strangers on the grounds? Some of them could just sit in their cars eating donuts and listening to the radio.

Seems like it could be done as volunteers, so no cost. And after an incident like this, it seems as if there would be no shortage of volunteers.

How are those parents going to prevent a shooting?

How does a barking dog prevent a burglary?Making noise when a bad guy approaches, often keeps the bad guy away.

If two moms on cell phones had been calling the achool and/or police when this guy came up to the Newtown school, maybe he would have moved along or been stopped or apprehended before so much carnage.

That may very well be a deterrent for some crimes, but when someone puts this much effort into what will end up being one of the most heinous mass killings of all time, Mom eating doughnuts calling Barney Fife to come stop a heavily armed and armored psycho isn't going to do much. These types of crimes are nearly unstoppable because they are so far from being believable. I'm not saying it has no merit in possibly preventing other things, but this, Columbine, VT, Aurora etc... nothing less than a SWAT team a block away on standby is going to do any good.

a ban on guns and a ban on bullets might also do some good.