Any news on Vick and the plea deal? (1 Viewer)

[Big Score]

Since when did killing dogs become worse than beating your wife? I don't see guys who slap their family around going away for a couple of years. American justice is warped sometimes.

Disclaimer: I've never owned Vick in any league, and I love dogs.

can't say this enough.

Sure... slapping someone in the heat of the moment is much worse than premeditatively torturing a relatively defenseless animal that is completely loyal to you. Sure.FYI - I think the American justice system IS too light on domestic violence... but, generally, domestic violence is the result of two people provoking each other, OR someone being under the influence...

For some reason I don't think "not testing well" is an adequate excuse to subject any living creature to torture...

If the dogs had rabies, or were seriously ill, and Vick humanely terminated their lives that would be one thing, but the way he handled things goes into a psyche worse than someone who is guilty of domestic violence...

Swiss I hear what you're saying, but have to point out the possible problem you have in saying Vick's psyche is more warped than a person guilty of domestic abuse.The reason for so many "Battered Women Shelters" around our country (& other 1st World Nations) is that it has been conclusively proven over & over & over again that it is a life threatening situation for these abused women.

1,000's of women end up dead from someone who at first began "slapping them around in the heat of the moment".

I would say that any man who feels the need to physically abuse the weaker sex (even if provoked - you can always just walk away) is just as psychologically warped as Vick & his inhumane way of disposing of dogs that cost him gambling money.

Both are deplorable acts, but the big difference is that one is an animal, the other a human being.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Since when did killing dogs become worse than beating your wife? I don't see guys who slap their family around going away for a couple of years. American justice is warped sometimes.

Disclaimer: I've never owned Vick in any league, and I love dogs.

can't say this enough.

Sure... slapping someone in the heat of the moment is much worse than premeditatively torturing a relatively defenseless animal that is completely loyal to you. Sure.FYI - I think the American justice system IS too light on domestic violence... but, generally, domestic violence is the result of two people provoking each other, OR someone being under the influence...

For some reason I don't think "not testing well" is an adequate excuse to subject any living creature to torture...

If the dogs had rabies, or were seriously ill, and Vick humanely terminated their lives that would be one thing, but the way he handled things goes into a psyche worse than someone who is guilty of domestic violence...

Swiss I hear what you're saying, but have to point out the possible problem you have in saying Vick's psyche is more warped than a person guilty of domestic abuse.The reason for so many "Battered Women Shelters" around our country (& other 1st World Nations) is that it has been conclusively proven over & over & over again that it is a life threatening situation for these abused women.

1,000's of women end up dead from someone who at first began "slapping them around in the heat of the moment".

I would say that any man who feels the need to physically abuse the weaker sex (even if provoked - you can always just walk away) is just as psychologically warped as Vick & his inhumane way of disposing of dogs that cost him gambling money.

Both are deplorable acts, but the big difference is that one is an animal, the other a human being.

One gets you 5 years, one gets you death row.

 

[switz]

Since when did killing dogs become worse than beating your wife? I don't see guys who slap their family around going away for a couple of years. American justice is warped sometimes.

Disclaimer: I've never owned Vick in any league, and I love dogs.

can't say this enough.

Sure... slapping someone in the heat of the moment is much worse than premeditatively torturing a relatively defenseless animal that is completely loyal to you. Sure.FYI - I think the American justice system IS too light on domestic violence... but, generally, domestic violence is the result of two people provoking each other, OR someone being under the influence...

For some reason I don't think "not testing well" is an adequate excuse to subject any living creature to torture...

If the dogs had rabies, or were seriously ill, and Vick humanely terminated their lives that would be one thing, but the way he handled things goes into a psyche worse than someone who is guilty of domestic violence...

Swiss I hear what you're saying, but have to point out the possible problem you have in saying Vick's psyche is more warped than a person guilty of domestic abuse.The reason for so many "Battered Women Shelters" around our country (& other 1st World Nations) is that it has been conclusively proven over & over & over again that it is a life threatening situation for these abused women.

1,000's of women end up dead from someone who at first began "slapping them around in the heat of the moment".

I would say that any man who feels the need to physically abuse the weaker sex (even if provoked - you can always just walk away) is just as psychologically warped as Vick & his inhumane way of disposing of dogs that cost him gambling money.

Both are deplorable acts, but the big difference is that one is an animal, the other a human being.

I don't diagree - I think domestic abuse is deplorable as well... my point was that generally domestic abuse is triggered by something, it's not premeditated. Whereas these killings appear, note appear, to be cold and calculated.The problem with domestic abuse is that it can escalate, and frequently does if not caught early enough... but, as has been proven many times, if you eliminate the cause, you can eliminate the abuse.

On the other hand, how do you eliminate Vick, Peace, and Phillips blood lust? I don't know.

Cruelty to animals borders on sociopathology, domestic abuse generally does not.

 

[switz]

I still dont believe he is guilty

does this look like the face of a dog killer?

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c166/poo...nk/image001.jpg

LOL!!! WEll, the dogs survive HK, maybe they'll be good in the ring.

 

[cobalt_27]

Cruelty to animals borders on sociopathology, domestic abuse generally does not.

This is the point. It's not an argument about which is worse than the other. They're both awful. But, what distinguishes the dog fighting is its sadistic, cruel nature. That doesn't make it worse than domestic abuse--it's just more associated with the callous psychopathic behavior/mentality that should absolutely be dealt with in the courts, prisons, and support centers.

 

[Yitbos69]

Cruelty to animals borders on sociopathology, domestic abuse generally does not.

This is the point. It's not an argument about which is worse than the other. They're both awful. But, what distinguishes the dog fighting is its sadistic, cruel nature. That doesn't make it worse than domestic abuse--it's just more associated with the callous psychopathic behavior/mentality that should absolutely be dealt with in the courts, prisons, and support centers.

 

[nygiants56]

part of what news outlets are reporting, was that in the plea bargains already posted, Vick has been outright accused of participating in the execution of dogs himself, that he killed dogs on multiple occasions, witnessed by these other 3 co-defendants.

he's a piece of s**t who's going to do some hard time for all of this, and once he pleads guilty, he will have forfeited his NFL career, because no team will hire a guy who admitted to animal abuse,torture, and killings..

and I'm sure the Humane Society,Peta,ASPCA will make sure he never does step foot on an NFL field again..

on a lighter note, most if not ALL serial killers start out by abusing and killing animals...just food for thought..LOL

hey, what can I say, its the DOG days of summer...

 

[a_rackowski]

Vicks would have been the face of the XFL right now if they were still around.

Vick, Clarrett, Brent Moss, Marcus Vick, Pac Man Jones, Chris Henry, Albert Hanesworth, Odell Thurman, Charles Rodgers, Tank Johnson, Ricky Williams, Koren Robinson, That guy that I just cant remember his name - played for the Rams and now probably is a thug somewhere......RB.......

I tell you the XFL was a few years ahead of its time, much like alot of McMahons ideas. I think if they revived it now, it would actully stand a chance to have real star power instead of Rob Smarts of the world.

 

[mad sweeney]

Vicks would have been the face of the XFL right now if they were still around. Vick, Clarrett, Brent Moss, Marcus Vick, Pac Man Jones, Chris Henry, Albert Hanesworth, Odell Thurman, Charles Rodgers, Tank Johnson, Ricky Williams, Koren Robinson, That guy that I just cant remember his name - played for the Rams and now probably is a thug somewhere......RB.......I tell you the XFL was a few years ahead of its time, much like alot of McMahons ideas. I think if they revived it now, it would actully stand a chance to have real star power instead of Rob Smarts of the world.

Laurence Phillips is who I think you're thinking of. He's currently in jail I believe for getting into an altercation with some teens at a pickup b-ball game in a park. He went back to his car and tried to run them down on the court, IIRC. You forgot Carruth, the Trunk Hider. Henry. Chambers and Ahman Green the wife beaters etc... Chmura and Henry who like young girls.Honestly though, KoRo and Ricky don't really belong on that list. Although Koren's crimes were very dangerous, the DUIs, these two aren't in the same class as the others.Here's some irony for you, Mikey, not Marcus, is the brother doin the hard time. I would've bet at least 3-1 on the Vick the Younger getting slammed up first.Lawyer types help me on this, if Vick wants to plea does his admission have to match that of the others? In other words, if he wants to cop a deal does he have to admit to what the other guys are saying, in particular his personal involvement with the executions?

 

[chris1969]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d8...mp;confirm=true

posted 45 mins ago

 

[DLeo]

This should seal Vicks fate as far as ever playing QB in the NFL again..this might be a honda post but i just came across it and it plainly shows Vick did in fact toture and kill dogs. That SOB does not deserve to ever make a good [penny in the NFL again...I so look forward to the days where I here he is pulling things like Mark Ingram tried to today, meaning he is flat out broken down! I doubt it will come to that...not sure how much he has tucked away and not sure how mich he might have to give Blank back?

By LARRY O'DELL - Associated Press Writer

2007-08-17 16:52

RICHMOND, Va. (AP) - It's up to Michael Vick now.

His last two co-defendants pleaded guilty Friday and implicated Vick in bankrolling gambling on dogfights. One of them said the Atlanta Falcons quarterback helped drown or hang dogs that didn't do well.

With his NFL career in jeopardy and a superseding indictment adding more charges in the works, that left Vick with a hard choice: Cutting his own deal to hold jail time under a year or go to trial and sit through detailed descriptions of the ghastly operation known as ``Bad Newz Kennels.''

Quanis Phillips of Atlanta and Purnell Peace of Virginia Beach entered plea agreements and agreed to testify against Vick. A third member of the dogfighting ring, Tony Taylor, struck a similar deal last month.

Vick's lawyers have been negotiating with prosecutors. One of Vick's attorneys, Lawrence Woodward, attended the plea hearings but declined to answer questions about the progress of the negotiations as he left the courthouse.

``Did you conspire with these folks to sponsor a dogfighting venture?'' U.S. District Judge Henry Hudson asked Peace.

``Yes, sir,'' he replied.

As part of his plea agreement, Phillips signed a statement that said Vick joined in executing at least eight dogs that didn't do well in test fights by various methods, including hanging and drowning.

``Phillips agrees and stipulates that these dogs all died as a result of the collective efforts of Peace, Phillips, and Vick,'' the statement said.

Phillips and Peace also backed up Taylor's assertion that Vick was involved in gambling.

``The `Bad Newz Kennels' operation and gambling monies were almost exclusively funded by Vick,'' according to statements by the two men.

Those allegations alone could trigger a lifetime ban under the NFL's personal conduct policy.

Commissioner Roger Goodell has barred Vick from the Falcons' training camp but has withheld further action while the league conducts its own investigation. NFL spokesman Greg Aiello said the league had no comment on the latest pleas.

Peace and Phillips pleaded guilty to the same charge facing Vick: conspiracy to travel in interstate commerce in aid of unlawful activities and conspiracy to sponsor a dog in an animal fighting venture. Sentencing was set for Nov. 30.

The offense is punishable by up to five years in prison and a $250,000 fine. The men will get credit for accepting responsibility and cooperating with the government but would be penalized for animal brutality.

Peace remains free until sentencing, but Hudson found that Phillips violated the terms of his release by failing a drug test and ordered him jailed.

About 30 animal-rights activists protested quietly outside the courthouse. Afterward, as police officers cleared the scene, protesters continued waving large pictures of a mutilated dog.

``This is one dogfighting ring that's been annihilated,'' said John Goodwin, a spokesman for the Humane Society of the United States.

The four defendants all initially pleaded not guilty, and Vick issued a statement saying he looked forward to clearing his name.

The case began in April with a search of Vick's property in Surry County, a few miles from Vick's hometown of Newport News. Investigators seized dozens of pit bulls, some of them injured, and equipment typically used in dogfighting operations.

The four men were indicted July 17.

---

Associated Press writer Dionne Walker contributed to this report.

 

[mad sweeney]

A new article

Falcons owner Blank shocked by latest developments in Vick case

By JOHN WAWROW, AP Sports Writer

August 17, 2007

ORCHARD PARK, N.Y. (AP) -- Falcons owner Arthur Blank accused Michael Vick of lying to him and the NFL after one of the NFL star's co-defendants said Friday that the quarterback took part in drowning and hanging dogs that didn't perform well.

"What's suggested in those statements of fact don't match up with what the league was told, even our organization and certainly not what was said to the commissioner," Blank told The Associated Press before Atlanta's preseason game against Buffalo.

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Blank's response came after two co-defendants in the federal dogfighting conspiracy case pleaded guilty earlier Friday, with one saying Vick helped in killing dogs.

"It's sad that those allegations exist and now they are confirmed by others," Blank said. "It's sad that Michael has put himself into that kind of situation. It's his responsibility for putting himself into that situation."

Blank said he will speak with commissioner Roger Goodell, and wait for the NFL to complete its investigation.

Vick's career is in jeopardy and he has been barred from joining the Falcons until the NFL completes its own investigation.

Blank told ESPN earlier that he expected Vick to submit his plea deal before the end of the day.

Blank would not repeat that statement in the interview with The Associated Press, except to say, "It seems a pretty clear indication there will be some sort of plea entered. When? I'm not positive."

Blank did say he was aware that negotiations were still taking place at 5 p.m.

Vick and his representatives have been having talks this past week. The decision to cut a deal would be regarded as an attempt for Vick to hold jail time under a year. His other option would be sitting through a trial, where the details would be revealed of what took place with a Virginia dogfighting operation known as "Bad Newz Kennels," which was allegedly funded by Vick and operated on his property.

The case began in April with a search of Vick's property in Surry County, a few miles from Vick's hometown of Newport News. Investigators seized dozens of pit bulls, some of them injured, and equipment typically used in dogfighting operations.

"From a personal perspective, it's just very sad," Blank said. "It's distressing after six years spending time with somebody, you think you know them and then there's another side that is shocking to all of us."

Associated Press freelance writer Bob Matuszak contributed to this report.

 

[mad sweeney]

NFL Network's Adam Schefter is reporting that Vick is not expected to make a decision tonight or this weekend on a plea deal involving his federal dog-fighting case.

From this article on NFL.com.I guess ILuvBeer gets a few more days on the board.

 

[burd]

Since when did killing dogs become worse than beating your wife? I don't see guys who slap their family around going away for a couple of years. American justice is warped sometimes.Disclaimer: I've never owned Vick in any league, and I love dogs.

can't say this enough.

Illegal interstate gambling ring down?You can't be this blind.

very .... the best way to bring the full force of the government on you is to try to screw them out of their cut. You think they really care that Vick was killing dogs? They're making an example out of Vick to deter other people from getting involved in illegal activity where the government doesn't get a share of the profit. The dog fighting and other charges make great headlines but the government is mainly concerned about the big mamoo ... $$$$

 

[Swamprat]

A new article

Falcons owner Blank shocked by latest developments in Vick case

By JOHN WAWROW, AP Sports Writer

August 17, 2007

ORCHARD PARK, N.Y. (AP) -- Falcons owner Arthur Blank accused Michael Vick of lying to him and the NFL after one of the NFL star's co-defendants said Friday that the quarterback took part in drowning and hanging dogs that didn't perform well.

"What's suggested in those statements of fact don't match up with what the league was told, even our organization and certainly not what was said to the commissioner," Blank told The Associated Press before Atlanta's preseason game against Buffalo.

ADVERTISEMENT

Blank's response came after two co-defendants in the federal dogfighting conspiracy case pleaded guilty earlier Friday, with one saying Vick helped in killing dogs.

"It's sad that those allegations exist and now they are confirmed by others," Blank said. "It's sad that Michael has put himself into that kind of situation. It's his responsibility for putting himself into that situation."

Blank said he will speak with commissioner Roger Goodell, and wait for the NFL to complete its investigation.

Vick's career is in jeopardy and he has been barred from joining the Falcons until the NFL completes its own investigation.

Blank told ESPN earlier that he expected Vick to submit his plea deal before the end of the day.

Blank would not repeat that statement in the interview with The Associated Press, except to say, "It seems a pretty clear indication there will be some sort of plea entered. When? I'm not positive."

Blank did say he was aware that negotiations were still taking place at 5 p.m.

Vick and his representatives have been having talks this past week. The decision to cut a deal would be regarded as an attempt for Vick to hold jail time under a year. His other option would be sitting through a trial, where the details would be revealed of what took place with a Virginia dogfighting operation known as "Bad Newz Kennels," which was allegedly funded by Vick and operated on his property.

The case began in April with a search of Vick's property in Surry County, a few miles from Vick's hometown of Newport News. Investigators seized dozens of pit bulls, some of them injured, and equipment typically used in dogfighting operations.

"From a personal perspective, it's just very sad," Blank said. "It's distressing after six years spending time with somebody, you think you know them and then there's another side that is shocking to all of us."

Associated Press freelance writer Bob Matuszak contributed to this report.

After his many mediocre performances, Vick should be thankful he's not one of his own dogs.

 

[BigRed]

Not an update but an article in the Richmond paper: finally, somebody in the media gets it:

http://www.timesdispatch.com/cva/ric/sport...08-17-0143.html

Whatever Vick gets, rest assured it won't be nearly enough.

 

[mad sweeney]

Not an update but an article in the Richmond paper: finally, somebody in the media gets it:

http://www.timesdispatch.com/cva/ric/sport...08-17-0143.html

Whatever Vick gets, rest assured it won't be nearly enough.

No reporter who doesn't mention gambling when calling for a lifetime ban "gets it". As many have pointed out and countless more overlook in favor of the PR heavy cruelty to animals angle, the league is most concerned with gambling and associating with known gamblers. If Vick stays away from a plea or conviction that keeps his name clear of that connection, I believe he will play again. Folks like Little, Lewis, Lewis etc...found their teams willing to keep them on the field, though I doubt the Falcons will keep him for more than 30 minutes after Vick says the words "Guilty your honor". I think Vick will get more than a year ban, but unless he gets nailed on gambling then there will be no lifetime ban.Crimes against people >> crimes against dogs. Even in their sadistic nature. The loss that the family feels every time Little gets a huge paycheck>>outrage by animal rights groups.

 

[cobalt_27]

Not an update but an article in the Richmond paper: finally, somebody in the media gets it:

http://www.timesdispatch.com/cva/ric/sport...08-17-0143.html

Whatever Vick gets, rest assured it won't be nearly enough.

No reporter who doesn't mention gambling when calling for a lifetime ban "gets it". As many have pointed out and countless more overlook in favor of the PR heavy cruelty to animals angle, the league is most concerned with gambling and associating with known gamblers. If Vick stays away from a plea or conviction that keeps his name clear of that connection, I believe he will play again. Folks like Little, Lewis, Lewis etc...found their teams willing to keep them on the field, though I doubt the Falcons will keep him for more than 30 minutes after Vick says the words "Guilty your honor". I think Vick will get more than a year ban, but unless he gets nailed on gambling then there will be no lifetime ban.Crimes against people >> crimes against dogs. Even in their sadistic nature. The loss that the family feels every time Little gets a huge paycheck>>outrage by animal rights groups.

Vick looked Goodell straight in the eyes and lied to him. Me thinks he'll get plenty more than just a year ban. He will never play another down in the NFL ever again.

 

[Da Guru]

Since when did killing dogs become worse than beating your wife? I don't see guys who slap their family around going away for a couple of years. American justice is warped sometimes.

Disclaimer: I've never owned Vick in any league, and I love dogs.

can't say this enough.

Sure... slapping someone in the heat of the moment is much worse than premeditatively torturing a relatively defenseless animal that is completely loyal to you. Sure.FYI - I think the American justice system IS too light on domestic violence... but, generally, domestic violence is the result of two people provoking each other, OR someone being under the influence...

For some reason I don't think "not testing well" is an adequate excuse to subject any living creature to torture...

If the dogs had rabies, or were seriously ill, and Vick humanely terminated their lives that would be one thing, but the way he handled things goes into a psyche worse than someone who is guilty of domestic violence...

Swiss I hear what you're saying, but have to point out the possible problem you have in saying Vick's psyche is more warped than a person guilty of domestic abuse.The reason for so many "Battered Women Shelters" around our country (& other 1st World Nations) is that it has been conclusively proven over & over & over again that it is a life threatening situation for these abused women.

1,000's of women end up dead from someone who at first began "slapping them around in the heat of the moment".

I would say that any man who feels the need to physically abuse the weaker sex (even if provoked - you can always just walk away) is just as psychologically warped as Vick & his inhumane way of disposing of dogs that cost him gambling money.

Both are deplorable acts, but the big difference is that one is an animal, the other a human being.

Vick knowingly gave at least one woman herpes as well. Talk about animals and human beings..what kind of person would do that?

 

[Da Guru]

Not an update but an article in the Richmond paper: finally, somebody in the media gets it:

http://www.timesdispatch.com/cva/ric/sport...08-17-0143.html

Whatever Vick gets, rest assured it won't be nearly enough.

No reporter who doesn't mention gambling when calling for a lifetime ban "gets it". As many have pointed out and countless more overlook in favor of the PR heavy cruelty to animals angle, the league is most concerned with gambling and associating with known gamblers. If Vick stays away from a plea or conviction that keeps his name clear of that connection, I believe he will play again. Folks like Little, Lewis, Lewis etc...found their teams willing to keep them on the field, though I doubt the Falcons will keep him for more than 30 minutes after Vick says the words "Guilty your honor". I think Vick will get more than a year ban, but unless he gets nailed on gambling then there will be no lifetime ban.Crimes against people >> crimes against dogs. Even in their sadistic nature. The loss that the family feels every time Little gets a huge paycheck>>outrage by animal rights groups.

Vick looked Goodell straight in the eyes and lied to him. Me thinks he'll get plenty more than just a year ban. He will never play another down in the NFL ever again.

I would think at least a year in jail and a two year ban from the NFL, if not a lifetime ban.

 

[Cookiemonster]

Not an update but an article in the Richmond paper: finally, somebody in the media gets it:

http://www.timesdispatch.com/cva/ric/sport...08-17-0143.html

Whatever Vick gets, rest assured it won't be nearly enough.

No reporter who doesn't mention gambling when calling for a lifetime ban "gets it". As many have pointed out and countless more overlook in favor of the PR heavy cruelty to animals angle, the league is most concerned with gambling and associating with known gamblers. If Vick stays away from a plea or conviction that keeps his name clear of that connection, I believe he will play again. Folks like Little, Lewis, Lewis etc...found their teams willing to keep them on the field, though I doubt the Falcons will keep him for more than 30 minutes after Vick says the words "Guilty your honor". I think Vick will get more than a year ban, but unless he gets nailed on gambling then there will be no lifetime ban.Crimes against people >> crimes against dogs. Even in their sadistic nature. The loss that the family feels every time Little gets a huge paycheck>>outrage by animal rights groups.

Vick looked Goodell straight in the eyes and lied to him. Me thinks he'll get plenty more than just a year ban. He will never play another down in the NFL ever again.

I would think at least a year in jail and a two year ban from the NFL, if not a lifetime ban.

We're talking about betting on the dogs, right? I didn't hear anything about him betting on NFL games or his own. Gambling is not an issue. Nobody cares that Porter and Levi Jones got in a fight at a craps table in Vegas.

 

[mad sweeney]

Not an update but an article in the Richmond paper: finally, somebody in the media gets it:

http://www.timesdispatch.com/cva/ric/sport...08-17-0143.html

Whatever Vick gets, rest assured it won't be nearly enough.

No reporter who doesn't mention gambling when calling for a lifetime ban "gets it". As many have pointed out and countless more overlook in favor of the PR heavy cruelty to animals angle, the league is most concerned with gambling and associating with known gamblers. If Vick stays away from a plea or conviction that keeps his name clear of that connection, I believe he will play again. Folks like Little, Lewis, Lewis etc...found their teams willing to keep them on the field, though I doubt the Falcons will keep him for more than 30 minutes after Vick says the words "Guilty your honor". I think Vick will get more than a year ban, but unless he gets nailed on gambling then there will be no lifetime ban.Crimes against people >> crimes against dogs. Even in their sadistic nature. The loss that the family feels every time Little gets a huge paycheck>>outrage by animal rights groups.

Vick looked Goodell straight in the eyes and lied to him. Me thinks he'll get plenty more than just a year ban. He will never play another down in the NFL ever again.

I would think at least a year in jail and a two year ban from the NFL, if not a lifetime ban.

We're talking about betting on the dogs, right? I didn't hear anything about him betting on NFL games or his own. Gambling is not an issue. Nobody cares that Porter and Levi Jones got in a fight at a craps table in Vegas.

The Feds care a lot when you finance illegal interstate gambling. Dealing with Vegas casinos=legal. Financing dog fighting while crossing state lines=multiple felonies along with associating with other interstate illegal gamblers. Big difference.

 

[nfcsouthchamp427]

who cares, he is an animal abuser and should not be repping the nfl.

 

[Mark Wimer]

Not an update but an article in the Richmond paper: finally, somebody in the media gets it:

http://www.timesdispatch.com/cva/ric/sport...08-17-0143.html

Whatever Vick gets, rest assured it won't be nearly enough.

No reporter who doesn't mention gambling when calling for a lifetime ban "gets it". As many have pointed out and countless more overlook in favor of the PR heavy cruelty to animals angle, the league is most concerned with gambling and associating with known gamblers. If Vick stays away from a plea or conviction that keeps his name clear of that connection, I believe he will play again. Folks like Little, Lewis, Lewis etc...found their teams willing to keep them on the field, though I doubt the Falcons will keep him for more than 30 minutes after Vick says the words "Guilty your honor". I think Vick will get more than a year ban, but unless he gets nailed on gambling then there will be no lifetime ban.Crimes against people >> crimes against dogs. Even in their sadistic nature. The loss that the family feels every time Little gets a huge paycheck>>outrage by animal rights groups.

Vick looked Goodell straight in the eyes and lied to him. Me thinks he'll get plenty more than just a year ban. He will never play another down in the NFL ever again.

I would think at least a year in jail and a two year ban from the NFL, if not a lifetime ban.

We're talking about betting on the dogs, right? I didn't hear anything about him betting on NFL games or his own. Gambling is not an issue. Nobody cares that Porter and Levi Jones got in a fight at a craps table in Vegas.

Page 1 and Page 2 of the Tony Taylor Plea Deal, first item covered in the document:

1. Beginning in our about early 2001 and continuing through or about April 25, 2007, in the Eastern District of Virginia and elsewhere, defendants PURNELL A. PEACE, also known as "P-Funk" and "Funk", QUANIS L. PHILLIPS, also known as "Q", TONY TAYLOR, also known as "T", and MICHAEL VICK, also known as "Ookie", did knowingly and willfully combine, conspire, confederate and agree with each other, and with persons known and unknown to the Grand Jury, to commit the following offenses against the United States, to wit:

a. traveling in interstate commerce and using the mail or any facility in interstate commerce with intent to commit any crime of violence to further any unlawful activity and to promote, manage, establish, carry on, and facilitate the promotion, management, establishment, and carrying on of an unlawful activity, to wit: a business enterprise involving gambling in violation of Virginia Code Annotated Sections 3.1.....

So, the first item the Feds list in the first plea deal they rolled on Vick, starts with an indictment of the conspirators for "a business enterprise involving gambling" and you want to ignore the gambling aspect of this case? Simply associating with persons involved with illegal gambling is expressly forbidden by the Personal Code of Conduct in the CBA...and Vick denied being involved in gambling in any way to Commissioner Roger Goodell in April at the NFL draft.

My .02.

 

[mad sweeney]

How did Vick get bumped to page 3?!

Grand Jury convening tomorrow.

Nothing really new as the reporter does not know if it will be for the DA to add the superceding charges or for Vick to enter a plea. Nor does it mention a time. However Blank feelos that it is an indication that a plea will be entered. One way or another I think Vick's days as a Falcon end tomorrow. If he pleads guilty, fired. If he gets the extra interstate gambling charges, fired. Unless the DA is convening the GJ to drop the charges, bye bye Vick.

 

[3C's]

Not an update but an article in the Richmond paper: finally, somebody in the media gets it:

http://www.timesdispatch.com/cva/ric/sport...08-17-0143.html

Whatever Vick gets, rest assured it won't be nearly enough.

No reporter who doesn't mention gambling when calling for a lifetime ban "gets it". As many have pointed out and countless more overlook in favor of the PR heavy cruelty to animals angle, the league is most concerned with gambling and associating with known gamblers. If Vick stays away from a plea or conviction that keeps his name clear of that connection, I believe he will play again. Folks like Little, Lewis, Lewis etc...found their teams willing to keep them on the field, though I doubt the Falcons will keep him for more than 30 minutes after Vick says the words "Guilty your honor". I think Vick will get more than a year ban, but unless he gets nailed on gambling then there will be no lifetime ban.Crimes against people >> crimes against dogs. Even in their sadistic nature. The loss that the family feels every time Little gets a huge paycheck>>outrage by animal rights groups.

Vick looked Goodell straight in the eyes and lied to him. Me thinks he'll get plenty more than just a year ban. He will never play another down in the NFL ever again.

I would think at least a year in jail and a two year ban from the NFL, if not a lifetime ban.

We're talking about betting on the dogs, right? I didn't hear anything about him betting on NFL games or his own. Gambling is not an issue. Nobody cares that Porter and Levi Jones got in a fight at a craps table in Vegas.

Bet Porter cares a little since he's losing 3 game checks. Also, you're completely wrong about gambling not being an issue. Illegal gambling, which happened here, can bring a lifetime ban.

 

[mad sweeney]

Peter King and company were on the halftime show and addressed the idea of Vick naming other NFL names involved. Basically they said that if Vick doesn't name names he has a good chance of playing somewhere in 2010 assuming a year in jail and a year ban (no chance that the NFL suspension would run concurrent with jail time). But if he gives up other players he'd pretty much blackball himself out of the league. They also said he wouldn't do it because he's a loyal guy but pardon me if I don't place any stock in his alleged "good morals".

 

[east2west]

I don’t know how anyone could think this is an offense that is not worthy of a life time ban from the NFL. I read the entire indictment. On many occasions for more than 5 years Vick's "friends" have implicated that he financed, witnessed, and on at least one occasion actively participated in a cruel act of killing 8 dogs.

The man is stated to be THE main financial backer in this operation. Providing money for gambling, crossing state lines to commit felonies, and equipment used to train, torture, and kill dogs.

Lets not forget that the authorities confiscated more than 50 pit bulls from Vick's property, so it could quite possibly be that over the years Vick has accumulated hundreds of instances where he is responsible for cruelty to animals.(to me if you finance it and participate in it you are just as responsible) I'm no tree hugging PETA hippy, but this is an act that should be punishable by at LEAST a lifetime ban from football and a year in prison.

I wonder how many of you would defend Vick if a video surfaced showing Vick casually hanging dogs by the neck from trees in his back yard. Or the gruesome act of forcing a dogs head underwater to drown it. Anyone that can do that is sick! Plain and simple you have problems! After watching such an act would you still in your heart want Vick to get a slap on the wrist so he can be on your ####### fantasy team?

Lets not forget about the fact that the reason his house was raided was for drugs in the first place. So lets see here…purgery, acts of extreme cruelty to animals, illegal gambling, interstate felonies, drug activity, abuse, knowingly infecting a woman with an STD, oHHH the list could probably go on, is this the kind of man that deserves to be a role model and earn millions of dollars in a league that many honest hard working men pour their hearts and souls into, I think not.

Also, while I'm at it... I hate how this has been turned into an issue of race with some people. Let me for the record say that if it was ANY other NFL player involved in these activities NO matter what color they are, NO matter what team they play on, I will still feel the exact same way.

 

[Bri]

I don’t know how anyone could think this is an offense that is not worthy of a life time ban from the NFL. I read the entire indictment. On many occasions for more than 5 years Vick's "friends" have implicated that he financed, witnessed, and on at least one occasion actively participated in a cruel act of killing 8 dogs. The man is stated to be THE main financial backer in this operation. Providing money for gambling, crossing state lines to commit felonies, and equipment used to train, torture, and kill dogs.

Where did you read the indictment? Is it at smoking gun?Gambling mentioned often is hazy here.He paid to house and train these dogs and even the "ring" they fought in but did he bet? Is there evidence?NFLers own race horses and pay to train them and all that. NFL is gonna need to hear concrete evidence that he bet to go with the gambling angle. It'll get all muddled with the race horses(maybe even grey hounds for all I know) angle.Easiest is the abuse of the animals and that hanging then drowning episode.BTW I lllllllove Bill Simmons comments about how maybe we can actually have a jailhouse football team like in the movies. LOL I never put 2 + 2 together there, that would be entertaining.

 

[Bri]

This year plea deal, if taken, what is that truly in time served? 6 months?

 

[az_prof]

This year plea deal, if taken, what is that truly in time served? 6 months?

During halftime of the Giants game they were talking about it and the likelihood that Vick would serve a year in jail and that the NFL would suspend him for a year. They thought it highly unlikely that any suspension would be concurrent with jail time--thus, Vick may not play again until 2010 when he will be 30. They also speculated about the possibility that prosecutors would try to get him to name names of other NFL players who might have been involved. Tiki Barber said that if Vick squealed on anyone he might get a job but he would never be accepted in any clubhouse. Basically, if you own Vick, it is long past time to put a fork in him.

 

[Bri]

This year plea deal, if taken, what is that truly in time served? 6 months?

During halftime of the Giants game they were talking about it and the likelihood that Vick would serve a year in jail and that the NFL would suspend him for a year. They thought it highly unlikely that any suspension would be concurrent with jail time--thus, Vick may not play again until 2010 when he will be 30. They also speculated about the possibility that prosecutors would try to get him to name names of other NFL players who might have been involved. Tiki Barber said that if Vick squealed on anyone he might get a job but he would never be accepted in any clubhouse. Basically, if you own Vick, it is long past time to put a fork in him.

I appreciate the reply but I don't see how you answerred my Q.

 

[a_rackowski]

Vick would be an idiot to not roll on these "other guys" if they do really exist. If they did the crime, where is it written that he should protect them? Nobody put a gun to these guys heads and said take part in my dog fighting ring. You do something illegal by choice, then it comes down to getting the best deal for yourself and if that involved turning in other "associates" then thats what you do.

Maybe I have gotten out of the 4 Life culture but protecting people and destroying myself in the process seems like something off of a tpac album and a bad decision.

EDIT TO ADD - If any of these guys are extremely close friends, then thats fine, you do what you do, but I think they are more associates than lifelong friends.

 

[mad sweeney]

This year plea deal, if taken, what is that truly in time served? 6 months?

During halftime of the Giants game they were talking about it and the likelihood that Vick would serve a year in jail and that the NFL would suspend him for a year. They thought it highly unlikely that any suspension would be concurrent with jail time--thus, Vick may not play again until 2010 when he will be 30. They also speculated about the possibility that prosecutors would try to get him to name names of other NFL players who might have been involved. Tiki Barber said that if Vick squealed on anyone he might get a job but he would never be accepted in any clubhouse. Basically, if you own Vick, it is long past time to put a fork in him.

I appreciate the reply but I don't see how you answerred my Q.

He didn't, but at least he repeated what I said 5 posts up.First off, the "year deal" is just speculation. That's what his lawyers are trying to get. But even if he makes a deal with the DA for a year, the DA can only offer that to the judge as a recommendation. The judge is not required to follow it and can sentence Vick however he sees fit, in accordance with the sentencing guidelines for whatever he specifically pleads guilty to. And this judge is known for being very strict. So he could make the Year Deal and still get sentenced to 5 years. The judge can sentence him to where with good behavior the earliest he could get out was a year. At this point, the amount of time Vick will be sentenced is completely unknown and so how much of that he serves is obviously still unknown.

 

[Bri]

This year plea deal, if taken, what is that truly in time served? 6 months?

During halftime of the Giants game they were talking about it and the likelihood that Vick would serve a year in jail and that the NFL would suspend him for a year. They thought it highly unlikely that any suspension would be concurrent with jail time--thus, Vick may not play again until 2010 when he will be 30. They also speculated about the possibility that prosecutors would try to get him to name names of other NFL players who might have been involved. Tiki Barber said that if Vick squealed on anyone he might get a job but he would never be accepted in any clubhouse. Basically, if you own Vick, it is long past time to put a fork in him.

I appreciate the reply but I don't see how you answerred my Q.

He didn't, but at least he repeated what I said 5 posts up.First off, the "year deal" is just speculation. That's what his lawyers are trying to get. But even if he makes a deal with the DA for a year, the DA can only offer that to the judge as a recommendation. The judge is not required to follow it and can sentence Vick however he sees fit. And this judge is known for being very strict. So he could make the Year Deal and still get sentenced to 5 years. The judge can sentence him to where with good behavior the earliest he could get out was a year. At this point, the amount of time Vick will be sentenced is completely unknown and so how much of that he serves is obviously still unknown.

Thanks for the replyI keep hearing that stuff about the tough trial judge but what I'm misunderstanding is isn't their a committee or some sort that decides parole and the true length of his sentence?

 

[mad sweeney]

This year plea deal, if taken, what is that truly in time served? 6 months?

During halftime of the Giants game they were talking about it and the likelihood that Vick would serve a year in jail and that the NFL would suspend him for a year. They thought it highly unlikely that any suspension would be concurrent with jail time--thus, Vick may not play again until 2010 when he will be 30. They also speculated about the possibility that prosecutors would try to get him to name names of other NFL players who might have been involved. Tiki Barber said that if Vick squealed on anyone he might get a job but he would never be accepted in any clubhouse. Basically, if you own Vick, it is long past time to put a fork in him.

I appreciate the reply but I don't see how you answerred my Q.

He didn't, but at least he repeated what I said 5 posts up.First off, the "year deal" is just speculation. That's what his lawyers are trying to get. But even if he makes a deal with the DA for a year, the DA can only offer that to the judge as a recommendation. The judge is not required to follow it and can sentence Vick however he sees fit. And this judge is known for being very strict. So he could make the Year Deal and still get sentenced to 5 years. The judge can sentence him to where with good behavior the earliest he could get out was a year. At this point, the amount of time Vick will be sentenced is completely unknown and so how much of that he serves is obviously still unknown.

Thanks for the replyI keep hearing that stuff about the tough trial judge but what I'm misunderstanding is isn't their a committee or some sort that decides parole and the true length of his sentence?

Nope, it's the judge. You have to be in jail first and serve a certain portion of your sentence before you can be paroled, which is then done by a committee. But the judge decides the sentence.

 

[Godsbrother]

So what is the FBG's speculation this morning? Is Vick going to enter a plea or is he going to trial?

 

[Akkum]

So what is the FBG's speculation this morning? Is Vick going to enter a plea or is he going to trial?

I believe Vick is trying to work out a deal to enter a guilty plea to every charge except for the gambling charge....he will/has to go to trial - and win - against the gambling charges..IF (notice a big if) he has any chance of playing in the NFL again

 

[Sweat Hog]

This year plea deal, if taken, what is that truly in time served? 6 months?

During halftime of the Giants game they were talking about it and the likelihood that Vick would serve a year in jail and that the NFL would suspend him for a year. They thought it highly unlikely that any suspension would be concurrent with jail time--thus, Vick may not play again until 2010 when he will be 30. They also speculated about the possibility that prosecutors would try to get him to name names of other NFL players who might have been involved. Tiki Barber said that if Vick squealed on anyone he might get a job but he would never be accepted in any clubhouse. Basically, if you own Vick, it is long past time to put a fork in him.

I appreciate the reply but I don't see how you answerred my Q.

He didn't, but at least he repeated what I said 5 posts up.First off, the "year deal" is just speculation. That's what his lawyers are trying to get. But even if he makes a deal with the DA for a year, the DA can only offer that to the judge as a recommendation. The judge is not required to follow it and can sentence Vick however he sees fit. And this judge is known for being very strict. So he could make the Year Deal and still get sentenced to 5 years. The judge can sentence him to where with good behavior the earliest he could get out was a year. At this point, the amount of time Vick will be sentenced is completely unknown and so how much of that he serves is obviously still unknown.

Thanks for the replyI keep hearing that stuff about the tough trial judge but what I'm misunderstanding is isn't their a committee or some sort that decides parole and the true length of his sentence?

Nope, it's the judge. You have to be in jail first and serve a certain portion of your sentence before you can be paroled, which is then done by a committee. But the judge decides the sentence.

Fed time is 85% of the actual sentence - NO less.

 

[suchislife]

This year plea deal, if taken, what is that truly in time served? 6 months?

Assuming the plea deal is still on the table and accepted by Vick, we won't know how much jail time the judge will actually hand down. He most likely wouldn't be sentenced until November/December.See the 4th post in this thread.

 

[Big Score]

I don’t know how anyone could think this is an offense that is not worthy of a life time ban from the NFL.

If Leonard Little can actually kill another human being & Ray Lewis be witness to murder of two human beings but just clam up & only get an Obstruction of Justice charge, yet both are playing in the NFL, I can't see how Vick gets a Life Time ban, unless of course the NFL Commish places more value on a dogs life, than a human beings life.If that's the case, then IMO, this is one sad warped country with some seriously screwed up values & priorities.

 

[mad sweeney]

I don’t know how anyone could think this is an offense that is not worthy of a life time ban from the NFL.

If Leonard Little can actually kill another human being & Ray Lewis be witness to murder of two human beings but just clam up & only get an Obstruction of Justice charge, yet both are playing in the NFL, I can't see how Vick gets a Life Time ban, unless of course the NFL Commish places more value on a dogs life, than a human beings life.If that's the case, then IMO, this is one sad warped country with some seriously screwed up values & priorities.

Jeezus H XXXXXX!!! ILLEGAL INTERSTATE GAMBLING will be the reason he's banned, not hanging dogs. Why can't everyone remember that?

 

[Big Score]

I don’t know how anyone could think this is an offense that is not worthy of a life time ban from the NFL.

If Leonard Little can actually kill another human being & Ray Lewis be witness to murder of two human beings but just clam up & only get an Obstruction of Justice charge, yet both are playing in the NFL, I can't see how Vick gets a Life Time ban, unless of course the NFL Commish places more value on a dogs life, than a human beings life.If that's the case, then IMO, this is one sad warped country with some seriously screwed up values & priorities.

Jeezus H XXXXXX!!! ILLEGAL INTERSTATE GAMBLING will be the reason he's banned, not hanging dogs. Why can't everyone remember that?

Jeezus H XXXXXX!!! DID YOU LOOK AT THE POST I WAS QUOTING & what he wrote? It wasn't about Interstate Gambling. The posters concern was over the dogs being killed.

 

[Snotbubbles]

I don’t know how anyone could think this is an offense that is not worthy of a life time ban from the NFL.

If Leonard Little can actually kill another human being & Ray Lewis be witness to murder of two human beings but just clam up & only get an Obstruction of Justice charge, yet both are playing in the NFL, I can't see how Vick gets a Life Time ban, unless of course the NFL Commish places more value on a dogs life, than a human beings life.If that's the case, then IMO, this is one sad warped country with some seriously screwed up values & priorities.

You can't go back in time to a different commissioner and a different set of conduct rules and say "Well this guy only got this." Not comparable.The rules and punishments are getting more stringent and harsher because of the above (and many others).

 

[mad sweeney]

I don’t know how anyone could think this is an offense that is not worthy of a life time ban from the NFL.

If Leonard Little can actually kill another human being & Ray Lewis be witness to murder of two human beings but just clam up & only get an Obstruction of Justice charge, yet both are playing in the NFL, I can't see how Vick gets a Life Time ban, unless of course the NFL Commish places more value on a dogs life, than a human beings life.If that's the case, then IMO, this is one sad warped country with some seriously screwed up values & priorities.

Jeezus H XXXXXX!!! ILLEGAL INTERSTATE GAMBLING will be the reason he's banned, not hanging dogs. Why can't everyone remember that?

Jeezus H XXXXXX!!! DID YOU LOOK AT THE POST I WAS QUOTING & what he wrote? It wasn't about Interstate Gambling. The posters concern was over the dogs being killed.

Both your quote and his quote are both in line with the thinking that the dogs are the focus. Your argument against the poster above does nothing to address the issue of gambling. If you wish to refute him, you shouldn't use improper and overused arguments to do so, bring out the real reasons.

 

[Pygmy Marmoset]

I don’t know how anyone could think this is an offense that is not worthy of a life time ban from the NFL.

If Leonard Little can actually kill another human being & Ray Lewis be witness to murder of two human beings but just clam up & only get an Obstruction of Justice charge, yet both are playing in the NFL, I can't see how Vick gets a Life Time ban, unless of course the NFL Commish places more value on a dogs life, than a human beings life.If that's the case, then IMO, this is one sad warped country with some seriously screwed up values & priorities.

I think there might be a few variables in these situations other than the substitute of a dog for a human. Call me crazy.

 

[jonessed]

The new deal is 18-36 months per ESPN

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/law/08/20/vick/index.html

Federal prosecutors have offered a plea deal recommending an 18- to 36-month prison sentence for suspended NFL quarterback Michael Vick for his alleged role in a dogfighting operation, but Vick's attorneys are trying to reduce that to less than a year, two sources told CNN on Monday.

 

[Big Score]

I don’t know how anyone could think this is an offense that is not worthy of a life time ban from the NFL.

If Leonard Little can actually kill another human being & Ray Lewis be witness to murder of two human beings but just clam up & only get an Obstruction of Justice charge, yet both are playing in the NFL, I can't see how Vick gets a Life Time ban, unless of course the NFL Commish places more value on a dogs life, than a human beings life.If that's the case, then IMO, this is one sad warped country with some seriously screwed up values & priorities.

Jeezus H XXXXXX!!! ILLEGAL INTERSTATE GAMBLING will be the reason he's banned, not hanging dogs. Why can't everyone remember that?

Jeezus H XXXXXX!!! DID YOU LOOK AT THE POST I WAS QUOTING & what he wrote? It wasn't about Interstate Gambling. The posters concern was over the dogs being killed.

Both your quote and his quote are both in line with the thinking that the dogs are the focus.

Yes they are.

Your argument against the poster above does nothing to address the issue of gambling.

That would be because neither of us were posting about the issue of gambling

If you wish to refute him, you shouldn't use improper and overused arguments to do so, bring out the real reasons.

It wasn't an argument guy, it was a simple observation of the gentelmans post & how warped our society's indignation has become.But if you want me to talk to you about the issue of gambling, I happen to think an automatic Lifetime Ban for NFL players involved in gambling, while players who are witnesses to murders or players who take another human beings life are still aloowed to play, is also a warped & sick.Kill somebody or be witness to a murder yet keep silent to allow the murderers to get off scott free? No problem, the NFL will suspend you a few games & fine you, but you'll still get to play. God forbid you gamble though. That's a Life Time Ban.You don't see something wrong with that standard?

 

[Big Score]

I don’t know how anyone could think this is an offense that is not worthy of a life time ban from the NFL.

If Leonard Little can actually kill another human being & Ray Lewis be witness to murder of two human beings but just clam up & only get an Obstruction of Justice charge, yet both are playing in the NFL, I can't see how Vick gets a Life Time ban, unless of course the NFL Commish places more value on a dogs life, than a human beings life.If that's the case, then IMO, this is one sad warped country with some seriously screwed up values & priorities.

I think there might be a few variables in these situations other than the substitute of a dog for a human. Call me crazy.

You're crazy. A human being is a human being, a dog is a dog & dead is dead.