Anybody feel guilty about rostering Mike Vick? (1 Viewer)

[eoMMan]

As others have said, a lot of NFL players are thugs who have had criminal pasts.

You are playing fantasy football and should only care about their on the field stats, not their personal life.

 

[meanjoegreen]

To be fair, rural blacks in the south feel a helluva lot differently towards mastiffs and pitbulls as a culture. Might be because they were sic'd on them through the 50's and 60's. Dog fighting has a long history in the south. And like I said above, the only way to differentiate this from Bullfighting/cockfighting (both leagl in many places in the world) is because we domesticated one of the animals as pets.

Vicks involvement with dog fighting had nothing to do with it being part of his black culture. He knew it was wrong, he lied about it, and tried to hide it from authorities. He enjoyed it and made money off of it. He ran a lucrative dog fighting business. He wasn't some uneducated black from the south getting some dogs together to fight in the woods off some dirt road because he grew up doing it. Vick didn't run with thugs and such growing up. He grew up staying out of trouble by hanging out at the local Boys Club and playing ball. His dog fighting decisions were all done by choice.

 

[JZilla]

Fantasy football is nothing but a numbers game.

If players were completely anonymous - they were somehow faceless and had no personality, and they just had numbers on their backs - would you care? Would you still get the same level of enjoyment out of Fantasy Anonymousball?

I experience emotions when I'm watching football on TV or in person, and I think Michael Vick is a pile of garbage as a human being - not the only one in the NFL - and honestly I'm pretty surprised he ended up fully reviving his career with a team whose fans are as emotional as Philly's. But fantasy football is a contest to see who collects the most numbers. I have no problem detaching, I don't even have to try.Aside from that, the most emotional* fanbase in the NFL is set to embrace this guy if he simply wins. So even if I did mix my feelings with my little numbers guessing game, I'd probably get over it if it meant victory.*read: least logical

 

[curta269]

I do not feel guilty. With an 0-2 start and a total of 0 points out of my 2 QBs (Kolb and Vince Young), I need all the help I can get.

If I was an actual NFL owner, I may feel different about it. Right now, I am just trying to win my fantasy league.

 

[FunkyTeaParty]

I felt more guilty rostering Leonard Little.

 

[dagwood]

I almost traded for him this week. Vick is a monster in my 2 QB, 4pt passing TD/6 pt rushing TD league. He was instrumental in helping win my a championship in 2006 (right before being busted).

Personally, I'd forgiven him for what he did, but my wife snapped me back into reality yesterday. I mentioned that I was trying to trade for him and she reminded me that this is the guy who took a dog on a noose and repeatedly slammed him into the ground like a sack of potatoes in order to kill him.

She asked me a simple question, "do you really want to win with that guy on your roster?"

Forgiveness is a virtue, but as a pitbull owner and dog lover, I'm actually glad the trade fell through. Mike Vick is an amazing football player, but he can go win fantasy games for someone else. Karma is a son of a biotch. Don't be surprised to see Karma come back at this guy and your team if you play him.

Flame away as I know this post will piss many of you off and really has no basis on science or stats or trends or even logic, but I'm just saying. Dude wasn't just funding the dog fighting and abuse. He was right in the middle of it. I am willing to forgive, but it's really hard to forget.

So you believe that someone makes a mistake, and pays their debt to society, they don't deserve a second chance?

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

HERE'S MY QUESTION:

Let's say Vick has a great year in Philly; let's say he's a Top-10 FF QB.

What maximum percentage do you think he would be owned in Fantasy Football systems (such as CBS, Yahoo, ESPN, etc.)????

Would he *ever* be 100% owned?

 

[LubdaColts]

As others have said, a lot of NFL players are thugs who have had criminal pasts.You are playing fantasy football and should only care about their on the field stats, not their personal life.

Great rationalization :( By any means necessary eh? Is there any crime someone could commit and you will still roster them. Is this hobby of FF so gripping that we throw out any moral compass we might have had. Do we have no standards for conduct any more?Many compare Vick to Little and others but we aren't talking about those guys....and I wouldn't roster a murder or child molester either. If someone hits you with a bat and another guy kicks you in the A## the guy with bat hurt you more but the guy who kicked you is still a bad person. You distract from the point when you use the childish defense of "but Tommy did it worser than me!" Point is Vick is a puke bag and do you want to be connected to him in any fashion....even FF.

 

[hip80]

If you're going to play fantasy football then you're making a deal with yourself to engage in cognitive dissonance at all times. Separate the players and their questionable legal histories from their numbers. That holds true for everyone from Vick to Roethlisberger to Reggie Bush to...there are hundreds more. Let it go. It's OK to keep your conscience separate from your fantasy life.

I like this post...however, now that I've rostered Vick, I've decided that if I win with him on my team, I will donate a portion of the proceeds to pit bull rescue.

That's pretty weak. Either make the donation or don't. Shouldn't be dependent on his performance. And this screams of "look at me".No offense.

well i wasn't trying to gain the admiration of a bunch of strangers on a message board and saying "look at me," just saying that making a donation with any winnings would be a nice thing to do. None taken.

 

[hip80]

i told my dog "Daddy has that dog killer on his fantasy team now". he just kind of stared blankly at me so i assume all is good

had the same convo with my dog, he's the assistant manager after all, patiently laying beside me while i pour over the free agents. i think he understands.

 

[Adebisi]

As others have said, a lot of NFL players are thugs who have had criminal pasts.You are playing fantasy football and should only care about their on the field stats, not their personal life.

Great rationalization By any means necessary eh? Is there any crime someone could commit and you will still roster them. Is this hobby of FF so gripping that we throw out any moral compass we might have had. Do we have no standards for conduct any more?Many compare Vick to Little and others but we aren't talking about those guys....and I wouldn't roster a murder or child molester either. If someone hits you with a bat and another guy kicks you in the A## the guy with bat hurt you more but the guy who kicked you is still a bad person. You distract from the point when you use the childish defense of "but Tommy did it worser than me!" Point is Vick is a puke bag and do you want to be connected to him in any fashion....even FF.

I think the disconnect here is that there is a segment of people who play fantasy football and seriously care about the players on their team... and then there is the other segment (into which I fall) in which names and personalities are completely irrelevant. To you, when you click on that button to roster this player, you're rostering "Michael Vick, dog killer." To me, when I click on that button to roster this player, I'm just rostering a contributor at my open QB position.

 

[Adebisi]

i told my dog "Daddy has that dog killer on his fantasy team now". he just kind of stared blankly at me so i assume all is good

 

[Enraged Nerfball]

If I were given the chance to meet and have dinner with any 10 athletes on the planet today Vick would be near the top. What he did was inexcusable and reprehensible. He paid a pretty high price for what he did. That being said, I find his story and path back to the NFL very interesting and compelling. Hearing him talk, listening to what others have to say about him (i.e Dungy) and watching him play all point to a changed man. Yes I would roster him with no remorse at all.

As others have said, a lot of NFL players are thugs who have had criminal pasts.You are playing fantasy football and should only care about their on the field stats, not their personal life.

Great rationalization By any means necessary eh? Is there any crime someone could commit and you will still roster them. Is this hobby of FF so gripping that we throw out any moral compass we might have had. Do we have no standards for conduct any more?Many compare Vick to Little and others but we aren't talking about those guys....and I wouldn't roster a murder or child molester either. If someone hits you with a bat and another guy kicks you in the A## the guy with bat hurt you more but the guy who kicked you is still a bad person. You distract from the point when you use the childish defense of "but Tommy did it worser than me!" Point is Vick is a puke bag and do you want to be connected to him in any fashion....even FF.

 

[Billy Costigan Jr]

We don't have this issue in my league. It is well known if you try to pick up Vick, I will drop him from your roster, you lose the guy you dropped to pick him up, and you're still paying the $5 transaction fee. Thus, he's unrosterable.

You sir, are mental.

 

[purestrength]

We don't have this issue in my league. It is well known if you try to pick up Vick, I will drop him from your roster, you lose the guy you dropped to pick him up, and you're still paying the $5 transaction fee. Thus, he's unrosterable.

Lame.....I would not be playing in your league after you did that.

Hairy, I don't think he invited you anyway.Personally, I would be honored to play in such a high-character league, if only I were to be invited.BTW, this thread will become an "I told you so" classic in a month or so when FF owners rostering Vick realize what a truly mediocre QB he is as they tumble to the bottom half of their league standings.

 

[atl3695]

I think a lot of people here need to have a nice chat with a psychiatrist. Lots of emotions flying around in here.

Do you actually feel like it makes you a better person because you dont have Vick on your roster?

Look down on people who do? Deal with the devil?

I wish more of you were in my leagues. Sitting on your leather couch, eating a cheeseburger (both of which were made by killing animals the same way Vick did) feeling self righteous about starting Alex Smith while Vick is on the waivers.

Where do I sign up?

 

[hammerva]

Not only do I have Vick on my team, I have Big Ben as my #3 QB until week 6 hits and then I start him. How is that for morality

 

[LubdaColts]

If I were given the chance to meet and have dinner with any 10 athletes on the planet today Vick would be near the top. What he did was inexcusable and reprehensible. He paid a pretty high price for what he did. That being said, I find his story and path back to the NFL very interesting and compelling. Hearing him talk, listening to what others have to say about him (i.e Dungy) and watching him play all point to a changed man. Yes I would roster him with no remorse at all.

With all the good guys in the league why would you eat lunch with this guy? He hasn't changed or least nothing he has done on the field points to change. His play wasn't effected by his dark hobby. With in the next couple of years when he finally retires I would bet he returns to watch and wager on dog fights. If you had that lunch with him and you could get him to be frank with you during your conversation he would tell you he never did anything wrong, except get caught.

 

[LittlePhatty]

I wish more of you were in my leagues. Sitting on your leather couch, eating a cheeseburger (both of which were made by killing animals the same way Vick did) feeling self righteous

There are cow fighting rings? And that's where we get all of our cheeseburgers?I think Wikipedia needs an update.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

As others have said, a lot of NFL players are thugs who have had criminal pasts.

You are playing fantasy football and should only care about their on the field stats, not their personal life.

Great rationalization By any means necessary eh? Is there any crime someone could commit and you will still roster them. Is this hobby of FF so gripping that we throw out any moral compass we might have had. Do we have no standards for conduct any more?

Many compare Vick to Little and others but we aren't talking about those guys....and I wouldn't roster a murder or child molester either. If someone hits you with a bat and another guy kicks you in the A## the guy with bat hurt you more but the guy who kicked you is still a bad person. You distract from the point when you use the childish defense of "but Tommy did it worser than me!" Point is Vick is a puke bag and do you want to be connected to him in any fashion....even FF.

I think the disconnect here is that there is a segment of people who play fantasy football and seriously care about the players on their team... and then there is the other segment (into which I fall) in which names and personalities are completely irrelevant. To you, when you click on that button to roster this player, you're rostering "Michael Vick, dog killer." To me, when I click on that button to roster this player, I'm just rostering a contributor at my open QB position.

I'll say this:

People who play FF watch football, they are football fans - obvious statement.

They want to watch the games and pull for the players they have on their FF teams. Another obvious statement.

Some people won't roster or start players from teams opposing their favorite teams on any given day because they don't want to see them do well. Nothing hypocritical there. (But doing that because someone tortured dogs is???)

Some people just find it impossible to pull for Mike Vick, so they don't want him on their FF team.

FF is supposed to be enjoyable; if adding Vick to a person's team makes it less enjoyable, then they shouldn't do it.

If Vick were a Top-5 QB by the end of this year I bet he would still be a free agent in at least 5% of the leagues.

 

[thehornet]

[if Vick were a Top-5 QB by the end of this year I bet he would still be a free agent in at least 5% of the leagues.

highly unlikely.

 

[shader]

We don't have this issue in my league. It is well known if you try to pick up Vick, I will drop him from your roster, you lose the guy you dropped to pick him up, and you're still paying the $5 transaction fee. Thus, he's unrosterable.

Sounds like a great league...got any openings?

Sorry, full with a waiting list.

I'm sure he was being sarcastic. I wouldn't play in a league with a rule like that if YOU paid ME 1,000 bucks.

 

[atl3695]

I wish more of you were in my leagues. Sitting on your leather couch, eating a cheeseburger (both of which were made by killing animals the same way Vick did) feeling self righteous

There are cow fighting rings? And that's where we get all of our cheeseburgers?I think Wikipedia needs an update.

Why don't you do a little research on the methods used to kill animals that are used for food, clothing, etc. Lethal injection wont be high on the list, but the list will include electrocution, drowning, beating, gunshots, and more. It's not your fault for being uninformed. Thats what happens when you get all you info from Wikipedia.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

[

If Vick were a Top-5 QB by the end of this year I bet he would still be a free agent in at least 5% of the leagues.

highly unlikely.

Actually, I agree, but maybe Top-5, that's not necessary.Looking at CBS here are the QB's now owned more than Vick (@87%):

Player ........................ % Owned

Schaub, Matt QB HOU 100

Brees, Drew QB NO 100

Palmer, Carson QB CIN 100

Rivers, Philip QB SD 100

Manning, Peyton QB IND 100

Rodgers, Aaron QB GB 100

Romo, Tony QB DAL 100

Brady, Tom QB NE 100

Flacco, Joe QB BAL 99

Manning, Eli QB NYG 99

Cutler, Jay QB CHI 99

Ryan, Matt QB ATL 99

Favre, Brett QB MIN 97

McNabb, Donovan QB WAS 97

Roethlisberger, Ben QB PIT 94

Do you think now that Vick has had 2 great games, has been named the starter in a traditionally great Philly offense, and given that on sheer numbers alone absent his past history anyone else would be rostered in almost all leagues, do you (or anyone) think he gets above that 94% level that a suspended Roethlisberger's at?

How about the 97% McNabb/Favre level?

 

[LubdaColts]

We don't have this issue in my league. It is well known if you try to pick up Vick, I will drop him from your roster, you lose the guy you dropped to pick him up, and you're still paying the $5 transaction fee. Thus, he's unrosterable.

Sounds like a great league...got any openings?

Sorry, full with a waiting list.

I'm sure he was being sarcastic. I wouldn't play in a league with a rule like that if YOU paid ME 1,000 bucks.

I would have no problem playing in that league. I try to pick quality character guys usually anyway as they have less chance of missing time due to BS.

 

[LawFitz]

I'll say this:

People who play FF watch football, they are football fans - obvious statement.

They want to watch the games and pull for the players they have on their FF teams. Another obvious statement.

Some people won't roster or start players from teams opposing their favorite teams on any given day because they don't want to see them do well. Nothing hypocritical there. (But doing that because someone tortured dogs is???)

Some people just find it impossible to pull for Mike Vick, so they don't want him on their FF team.

FF is supposed to be enjoyable; if adding Vick to a person's team makes it less enjoyable, then they shouldn't do it.

If Vick were a Top-5 QB by the end of this year I bet he would still be a free agent in at least 5% of the leagues.

After three pages, I do find it ironic that the owners that are getting the most grief here are the ones who choose not to roster Vick. I'm with you, if the internal grief caused by Vick's presence on your roster > than the joy of his TDs and wins, then let someone else have him.

Woo hoo, I won my fantasy league! Oh wait, I did it with the guy who willfully tortured and killed dogs. For some of us, this is a moral dilemma. Probably more so for those of us who see FF as a hobby and a game, rather than a "business."

 

[LawFitz]

I wish more of you were in my leagues. Sitting on your leather couch, eating a cheeseburger (both of which were made by killing animals the same way Vick did) feeling self righteous

There are cow fighting rings? And that's where we get all of our cheeseburgers?I think Wikipedia needs an update.

Why don't you do a little research on the methods used to kill animals that are used for food, clothing, etc. Lethal injection wont be high on the list, but the list will include electrocution, drowning, beating, gunshots, and more. All perfectly legal.It's not your fault for being uninformed. Thats what happens when you get all you info from Wikipedia.

So killing for food is the same as killing for pleasure?

 

[thehornet]

We don't have this issue in my league. It is well known if you try to pick up Vick, I will drop him from your roster, you lose the guy you dropped to pick him up, and you're still paying the $5 transaction fee. Thus, he's unrosterable.

 

[moderated]

I wish more of you were in my leagues. Sitting on your leather couch, eating a cheeseburger (both of which were made by killing animals the same way Vick did) feeling self righteous

There are cow fighting rings? And that's where we get all of our cheeseburgers?I think Wikipedia needs an update.

at least the dogs were given a fighting chance to live. anyone who eats meat and whines about Vick needs to check themselves.

 

[LittlePhatty]

Why don't you do a little research on the methods used to kill animals that are used for food, clothing, etc. Lethal injection wont be high on the list, but the list will include electrocution, drowning, beating, gunshots, and more. All perfectly legal.It's not your fault for being uninformed. Thats what happens when you get all you info from Wikipedia.

You obviously took my reply far too seriously. I figured the phrase "cow fighting ring" would tip anyone off.But thanks for the laugh (suggesting I am "uninformed" and need to do research on the subject).

 

[atl3695]

So killing for food is the same as killing for pleasure?

A lot of people are much more bothered by the methods he used to kill dogs, not the actual dog fighting. These methods were described as "torture".My point is not whether what Vick did was ok or not, but that the methods used to kill the animals are common.Do you have the same disdain for hunters? They are killing animals for sport also.

 

[WiDDoW_MaKeR]

I was telling everyone in my league during the draft that I wouldn't even want a guy like Vick on my team. What he did was horrible, and I didn't even want to have someone with that character on my FF squad. That was before I was able to grab him off the waiver wire. I was as excited as a little kid going to Disney World when I woke up this morning and my waiver wire transaction had gone through. Now, I think that it's great a guy like him was given a second chance and seems to have turned his life around.

 

[moderated]

I was telling everyone in my league during the draft that I wouldn't even want a guy like Vick on my team. What he did was horrible, and I didn't even want to have someone with that character on my FF squad. That was before I was able to grab him off the waiver wire. I was as excited as a little kid going to Disney World when I woke up this morning and my waiver wire transaction had gone through. Now, I think that it's great a guy like him was given a second chance and seems to have turned his life around.

Vick lovers unite.

 

[LawFitz]

So killing for food is the same as killing for pleasure?

A lot of people are much more bothered by the methods he used to kill dogs, not the actual dog fighting. These methods were described as "torture".My point is not whether what Vick did was ok or not, but that the methods used to kill the animals are common.Do you have the same disdain for hunters? They are killing animals for sport also.

Everyone has a different moral compass, and I'm certainly not suggesting that mine is better or right or whatever. That said, I have a disdain for anyone that hurts or kills for pleasure, especially when they are hurting or killing the innocent for no good reason. A farmer killing a wolf who is stalking his animals, no problem. Hunters killing because they need food to eat, no problem. Hunters killing because it makes them feel good or powerful to destroy a life - that's where I make my distinction. Bottom line, hurting and killing are a part of nature. All animals do it for survival. But as a human being, if committing these acts bring you pleasure instead of pain/guilt, you are not a good person in my eyes.This is why Mike Vick is a scumbag. He tortured and killed innocent dogs, not for food, not for security, but for pleasure. The distinction is obvious to me, even though it seems blurred to some others around here.

 

[thehornet]

So killing for food is the same as killing for pleasure?

A lot of people are much more bothered by the methods he used to kill dogs, not the actual dog fighting. These methods were described as "torture".My point is not whether what Vick did was ok or not, but that the methods used to kill the animals are common.Do you have the same disdain for hunters? They are killing animals for sport also.

Everyone has a different moral compass, and I'm certainly not suggesting that mine is better or right or whatever. That said, I have a disdain for anyone that hurts or kills for pleasure, especially when they are hurting or killing the innocent for no good reason. A farmer killing a wolf who is stalking his animals, no problem. Hunters killing because they need food to eat, no problem. Hunters killing because it makes them feel good or powerful to destroy a life - that's where I make my distinction. Bottom line, hurting and killing are a part of nature. All animals do it for survival. But as a human being, if committing these acts bring you pleasure instead of pain/guilt, you are not a good person in my eyes.This is why Mike Vick is a scumbag. He tortured and killed innocent dogs, not for food, not for security, but for pleasure. The distinction is obvious to me, even though it seems blurred to some others around here.

you absolutely need to settle down, beavis. it's dog fighting and it's cruel but he went to jail for 2 years and he seems to have turned his life around. there is genocide in africa every day and kids getting abused everywhere. go crusade for something that matters more in this world if you truly care. otherwise youre just preaching up on your soap box. you'd probably rather just sit around and do nothing though. second hander.

 

[Mystery Achiever]

My bigger issue is having to root for him in real football!

Many people can separate, treat it as business, etc, and that's fine.

Many can't, So find another QB. As said above, it is supposed to be fun.

There's no wrong answer here. Except for the one where people in one of the two categories above think people in the other category are wrong.

 

[LubdaColts]

I wish more of you were in my leagues. Sitting on your leather couch, eating a cheeseburger (both of which were made by killing animals the same way Vick did) feeling self righteous

There are cow fighting rings? And that's where we get all of our cheeseburgers?I think Wikipedia needs an update.

at least the dogs were given a fighting chance to live. anyone who eats meat and whines about Vick needs to check themselves.

You clearly have know idea what you are talking about. The dog fighting world is not about a dog fight for itself or its freedom....its about exploitation, abuse, neglect and torture.And meat from mass producing feed lots isn't much better...you are right. I eat only organic free range meat.

 

[LawFitz]

So killing for food is the same as killing for pleasure?

A lot of people are much more bothered by the methods he used to kill dogs, not the actual dog fighting. These methods were described as "torture".My point is not whether what Vick did was ok or not, but that the methods used to kill the animals are common.Do you have the same disdain for hunters? They are killing animals for sport also.

Everyone has a different moral compass, and I'm certainly not suggesting that mine is better or right or whatever. That said, I have a disdain for anyone that hurts or kills for pleasure, especially when they are hurting or killing the innocent for no good reason. A farmer killing a wolf who is stalking his animals, no problem. Hunters killing because they need food to eat, no problem. Hunters killing because it makes them feel good or powerful to destroy a life - that's where I make my distinction. Bottom line, hurting and killing are a part of nature. All animals do it for survival. But as a human being, if committing these acts bring you pleasure instead of pain/guilt, you are not a good person in my eyes.This is why Mike Vick is a scumbag. He tortured and killed innocent dogs, not for food, not for security, but for pleasure. The distinction is obvious to me, even though it seems blurred to some others around here.

you absolutely need to settle down, beavis. it's dog fighting and it's cruel but he went to jail for 2 years and he seems to have turned his life around. there is genocide in africa every day and kids getting abused everywhere. go crusade for something that matters more in this world if you truly care. otherwise youre just preaching up on your soap box. you'd probably rather just sit around and do nothing though. second hander.

And who the F are you? Loser keyboard warrior, who talks a lot of smack, that's all. I answered the man's question about hunting and made a distinction about killing for pleasure vs. killing for necessity. This is a discussion, but if I state a case, I'm suddenly on a soap box? Tone it down, buddy or step back and let the adults engage in conversation.

 

[atl3695]

Why don't you do a little research on the methods used to kill animals that are used for food, clothing, etc. Lethal injection wont be high on the list, but the list will include electrocution, drowning, beating, gunshots, and more. All perfectly legal.

It's not your fault for being uninformed. Thats what happens when you get all you info from Wikipedia.

You obviously took my reply far too seriously. I figured the phrase "cow fighting ring" would tip anyone off.But thanks for the laugh (suggesting I am "uninformed" and need to do research on the subject).

I dont take anything on an internet forum too seriously. To me you all are just imaginary people who live in my laptop. Glad my post could could bring you a few seconds of joy. From the emotional, holier than thou people to the "professionals" who "make their living" playing fantasy football, I have found this thread highly entertaining.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

I think a lot of people here need to have a nice chat with a psychiatrist. Lots of emotions flying around in here. Do you actually feel like it makes you a better person because you dont have Vick on your roster?Look down on people who do? Deal with the devil? I wish more of you were in my leagues. Sitting on your leather couch, eating a cheeseburger (both of which were made by killing animals the same way Vick did) feeling self righteous about starting Alex Smith while Vick is on the waivers.Where do I sign up?

So much high and mighty bull#### around here, I'd bet a lot of you would make more of a global impact by looking at your investments (401ks especially) and see where you're money is being made. Likely by a lot of really ####ty, TNC's that are raping and murdering some indigenous tribe/species/etc somewhere, but that happen to be great at turning a profit. Probably more productive and likely to have an actual impact, not merely massage your ego and make you feel 'good' because you aren't rooting for vick.and all of you who have these pretty dreams in your head of your cattle being raised on sunny field in Iowa are laregly kidding yourself. Go watch Food inc.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

[

If Vick were a Top-5 QB by the end of this year I bet he would still be a free agent in at least 5% of the leagues.

highly unlikely.

Actually, I agree, but maybe Top-5, that's not necessary.Looking at CBS here are the QB's now owned more than Vick (@87%):

Player ........................ % Owned

Schaub, Matt QB HOU 100

Brees, Drew QB NO 100

Palmer, Carson QB CIN 100

Rivers, Philip QB SD 100

Manning, Peyton QB IND 100

Rodgers, Aaron QB GB 100

Romo, Tony QB DAL 100

Brady, Tom QB NE 100

Flacco, Joe QB BAL 99

Manning, Eli QB NYG 99

Cutler, Jay QB CHI 99

Ryan, Matt QB ATL 99

Favre, Brett QB MIN 97

McNabb, Donovan QB WAS 97

Roethlisberger, Ben QB PIT 94

Do you think now that Vick has had 2 great games, has been named the starter in a traditionally great Philly offense, and given that on sheer numbers alone absent his past history anyone else would be rostered in almost all leagues, do you (or anyone) think he gets above that 94% level that a suspended Roethlisberger's at?

How about the 97% McNabb/Favre level?

in fairness CBS leagues are slow to react. Yesterday that # was in the 60's. a more realistic # will be to check that stat sunday at noon.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

I'll say this:

People who play FF watch football, they are football fans - obvious statement.

They want to watch the games and pull for the players they have on their FF teams. Another obvious statement.

Some people won't roster or start players from teams opposing their favorite teams on any given day because they don't want to see them do well. Nothing hypocritical there. (But doing that because someone tortured dogs is???)

Some people just find it impossible to pull for Mike Vick, so they don't want him on their FF team.

FF is supposed to be enjoyable; if adding Vick to a person's team makes it less enjoyable, then they shouldn't do it.

If Vick were a Top-5 QB by the end of this year I bet he would still be a free agent in at least 5% of the leagues.

After three pages, I do find it ironic that the owners that are getting the most grief here are the ones who choose not to roster Vick. I'm with you, if the internal grief caused by Vick's presence on your roster > than the joy of his TDs and wins, then let someone else have him.

Woo hoo, I won my fantasy league! Oh wait, I did it with the guy who willfully tortured and killed dogs. For some of us, this is a moral dilemma. Probably more so for those of us who see FF as a hobby and a game, rather than a "business."

Once again that pales in comparison to actually doing something. The only sense of smugness you are getting here is in judging and dehumanizing another. IIRC the bible has some things to say about that.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

I wish more of you were in my leagues. Sitting on your leather couch, eating a cheeseburger (both of which were made by killing animals the same way Vick did) feeling self righteous

There are cow fighting rings? And that's where we get all of our cheeseburgers?I think Wikipedia needs an update.

at least the dogs were given a fighting chance to live. anyone who eats meat and whines about Vick needs to check themselves.

Cows are slaughtered cruely in Postville, Iowa, USA. Their cuts are slit while they are still alive, then dismembered alive. Why don't cows get as much attention as dolphin? Everyday, thousands of cows are massacred and killed cruelly. Save the cows!

Note: Racist comments against Mid Western White farmers will NOT be tolerated and will be reported! :cheese:

 

[thehornet]

So killing for food is the same as killing for pleasure?

A lot of people are much more bothered by the methods he used to kill dogs, not the actual dog fighting. These methods were described as "torture".My point is not whether what Vick did was ok or not, but that the methods used to kill the animals are common.Do you have the same disdain for hunters? They are killing animals for sport also.

Everyone has a different moral compass, and I'm certainly not suggesting that mine is better or right or whatever. That said, I have a disdain for anyone that hurts or kills for pleasure, especially when they are hurting or killing the innocent for no good reason. A farmer killing a wolf who is stalking his animals, no problem. Hunters killing because they need food to eat, no problem. Hunters killing because it makes them feel good or powerful to destroy a life - that's where I make my distinction. Bottom line, hurting and killing are a part of nature. All animals do it for survival. But as a human being, if committing these acts bring you pleasure instead of pain/guilt, you are not a good person in my eyes.This is why Mike Vick is a scumbag. He tortured and killed innocent dogs, not for food, not for security, but for pleasure. The distinction is obvious to me, even though it seems blurred to some others around here.

you absolutely need to settle down, beavis. it's dog fighting and it's cruel but he went to jail for 2 years and he seems to have turned his life around. there is genocide in africa every day and kids getting abused everywhere. go crusade for something that matters more in this world if you truly care. otherwise youre just preaching up on your soap box. you'd probably rather just sit around and do nothing though. second hander.

And who the F are you? Loser keyboard warrior, who talks a lot of smack, that's all. I answered the man's question about hunting and made a distinction about killing for pleasure vs. killing for necessity. This is a discussion, but if I state a case, I'm suddenly on a soap box? Tone it down, buddy or step back and let the adults engage in conversation.

Coming from the guy who starts a thread in a public forum questioning other peoples morals. GET A LIFE

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

I was telling everyone in my league during the draft that I wouldn't even want a guy like Vick on my team. What he did was horrible, and I didn't even want to have someone with that character on my FF squad. That was before I was able to grab him off the waiver wire. I was as excited as a little kid going to Disney World when I woke up this morning and my waiver wire transaction had gone through. Now, I think that it's great a guy like him was given a second chance and seems to have turned his life around.

Kinda like talking up a injury report predraft.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Vick did his time. No problem rostering him

Heck Stallworth killed someone while drunk and only did 30 days. IMO Vicks punishment was too harsh, dogs people, dogs.

 

[Enraged Nerfball]

If I were given the chance to meet and have dinner with any 10 athletes on the planet today Vick would be near the top. What he did was inexcusable and reprehensible. He paid a pretty high price for what he did. That being said, I find his story and path back to the NFL very interesting and compelling. Hearing him talk, listening to what others have to say about him (i.e Dungy) and watching him play all point to a changed man. Yes I would roster him with no remorse at all.

With all the good guys in the league why would you eat lunch with this guy? He hasn't changed or least nothing he has done on the field points to change. His play wasn't effected by his dark hobby. With in the next couple of years when he finally retires I would bet he returns to watch and wager on dog fights. If you had that lunch with him and you could get him to be frank with you during your conversation he would tell you he never did anything wrong, except get caught.

I work in a field/profession where second chances are pretty frequent and I like comback stories . No question people need to be held accountable and that doesn't happen often enough. I think Vick paid his debt and from an outsiders perspective who knows something about human behavior he appears contrite. Do I know for sure? No. Neither do you. I would totally disagree about his play. Before he was undisciplined, inconsistent and under achieving. The player I see now is seeing the entire field and making smart decisions. It's still early but is seems obvious to me.

 

[BaBastage]

Mike Vick is obviously despicable for what he did, but the man served his time and paid his debt to society. Is it completely impossible that he has actually changed?

This sums it up for me.He did bad things, got caught, and served the penalty. Whether or not the penalty was severe enough is a separate debate (now a moot debate since you can't tag on more punishment after sentencing.)

From what I've seen, he's been about as sincere about changing as society could hope for. Take a few minutes and watch This Video of a speech he gave at a high school. He seemed pretty sincere to me.

Is that a superficial pose motivated by money on his part? Maybe.. Maybe Likely, but who knows? As long as one's actions are correct, that's the only fair thing to judge someone by.

I have no problems with him being back in the NFL, or on my fantasy team if that's the way it pans out.

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

There's nothing wrong with choosing not to roster Vick because you'd enjoy the games less by rooting for someone who tortured and killed dogs. There's also nothing wrong with choosing to roster and root for his stats because it doesn't hurt or help him either way.

But there is something wrong with thinking the other side is off-base because of their view. I'm seeing a whole lot of defensive posts from people who think some owners are being "high and mighty" by not wanting Vick. Don't be so defensive. Nobody is on a high horse or a pedestal. They just don't want to root for Vick. It ruins the game for them. Just deal with it and move on. Play your own game.

I haven't see too many posts say if you root for Vick in fantasy you're a loser. Do whatever you want. I tried to get him on waivers and missed, but I understand not wanting him on your team. Just because someone "served their time" doesn't mean all is forgotten. He doesn't "deserve" a second chance. He deserves what people are willing to give him. The Eagles are willing to give him the football as their starter. Some fantasy owners aren't willing to give him a spot on their team. Make your own decisions.

 

[drew726]

yea my dawgs hated it. (im going to hell)