ANYONE Draft Players Twice? (1 Viewer)

[bklyn bums]

Joined 32 team IDP league that allows each player to be drafted TWICE (on different teams). So one Tomlinson can be on team A and another on team B. same for each player.

Team's drafting 40 rounds to fill 40 man roster, with 20 starters, 9 Offensive positions and 11 Defensive positions, serpentine draft. Have determined draft positions & Owners beginning to trade pick positions.

How do you value draft positions when same player picked twice? Seems like for early rounds, top tier players will go in pairs, until individual Owner's player rankings change. Likely most first five ranked players in each position will go together.

I’ve gotten second overall pick (#’s 2, 63, 66, 127, 130, 191, 194, 255, 258, 319, etc.) and received a trade offer for draft positions: Mine: 3rd round, 2nd pick & 9th round, 2nd pick for his 3rd round, 18th pick and 7th round, 18th pick.

I think he's asking for more than he is offering by a bit. If I counter should it be for a higher second pick (4th or 5th round) or ask for additional picks (3 for my 2)? With 20 starters, it is going to be hard to get good players at all starting positions, not even thinking of backups when injuries occur.

Should I keep my higher 3rd round pick, or look for a higher choice than his 7th rounder, or add and additional pick to my counter?

What's everyone think? Have you started this many players? Have you drafted the same player more than once?

Help?

 

[SSOG]

http://www.footballguys.com/pickvalue.htm

Use that. Since players can be drafted twice, divide the pick number by two (so the value of Pick #30 in that league should be the same as Pick #15 in any other league). Plugging in the numbers, you're giving up the #33 overall (or the equivalent) and the #129, and getting back #41 and #105. According to that calculator, you shouldn't make the trade, although the value is closer than you're giving it credit for- you're giving 858 points worth of value, and getting 828 points worth in return.

 

[onionsack]

SCHIZO!

40 teams, THREE player clones. It's a great concept, and my favorite Zealots league by quite a lot. Trading possibilities multiplied exponentially.

:(

 

[-OZ-]

SCHIZO!

40 teams, THREE player clones. It's a great concept, and my favorite Zealots league by quite a lot. Trading possibilities multiplied exponentially.

:(

I don't like 40/3 - it doesn't work out evenly. I'm in a league very much like the one bklyn bums described, love it. It's a good concept, if there's a player you like, and someone else happens to like him as much, you still have a chance to get him. In theory, the owner can't hold out too long, or the other owner will get the deal.

 

[toppshelff]

And you can own the same guy twice? What is having 2 LT2's worth?

 

[SSOG]

And you can own the same guy twice? What is having 2 LT2's worth?

Not much if he tears his ACL.While two LTs might sound great in theory, in practice I'd much rather have 1 LT and 1 S-Jax.

 

[radballs]

And you can own the same guy twice? What is having 2 LT2's worth?

Not much if he tears his ACL.While two LTs might sound great in theory, in practice I'd much rather have 1 LT and 1 S-Jax.

SSOG,Are you really that risk averse? I'd take two LTs over 1 LT and 1 SJ in a heartbeat. Wow, what the hell are we talking about here! Night boys.

 

[SSOG]

And you can own the same guy twice? What is having 2 LT2's worth?

Not much if he tears his ACL.While two LTs might sound great in theory, in practice I'd much rather have 1 LT and 1 S-Jax.

SSOG,Are you really that risk averse? I'd take two LTs over 1 LT and 1 SJ in a heartbeat. Wow, what the hell are we talking about here! Night boys.

To be honest, that's just good old-fashioned good sense. LT is getting old, and has a lot of wear and tear on him. While I think he should be the #1 pick, I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised if he went down sometime this season. With LT/SJax you're still poised to win the championship easily, and if one goes down, you don't automatically go from contender to pretender. Basically, I trust that my fantasy football skills are going to be better than the skills of my league-mates, and as a result, I don't NEED a million points of differential from my RBs- I'd rather guarantee myself merely great production and let my superior roster-assembly skills elsewhere carry the day.Besides, having two of a single player is a massive risk in a single-elimination format like the playoffs. In week 17 last year, Tomlinson scored 8 points. The year before, from weeks 14-16, he scored 7.5, 8.5, and 6.5, failing to make the end zone a single time during that span, and how can any of us forget the time he rushed 17 times for 7 yards against a porous Philly run defense (finished the season 21st in rushing yards allowed)? If you build a team with two Tomlinsons, you aren't going to have much of anything else (since you will have given up almost anything else of value to get the second Tomlinson), and you simply WILL NOT be able to survive a mediocre game in the playoffs, since you won't have much supporting talent to carry the day. In a total points league, I might be more apt to grab a pair of Tomlinsons (although I still like Tomlinson/SJax to reduce my overall injury risk), but in a league where performance only counts for the week and extra points don't roll over, I'd rather win by 10 every week than win by 30 half of the weeks and lose by 10 the other half (especially, again, once the single-elimination playoffs roll around)- even though the second way will result in double the scoring differential.The basic principle here is that there are two variables to roster makeup. There's mean score, and there's standard deviation. If you have a good team (high mean score), then you want to minimize standard deviation to avoid collapsing and getting upset on any given week. If you have a bad team (low mean score), then you want to maximize standard deviation to maximize your chances of blowing up and stealing an upset. Since I believe I'm a solid owner, and operate under the assumption that I will be fielding a good team, I would immediately seek to minimize my standard deviation. I suppose you could call it "risk adverse", but I'd much prefer to call it smart planning.

 

[Dhizz]

And you can own the same guy twice? What is having 2 LT2's worth?

Not much if he tears his ACL.While two LTs might sound great in theory, in practice I'd much rather have 1 LT and 1 S-Jax.

SSOG,Are you really that risk averse? I'd take two LTs over 1 LT and 1 SJ in a heartbeat. Wow, what the hell are we talking about here! Night boys.

Why is LT the #1 consensus pick? Because he's the odds on favorite to end up RB1. But, he's only been RB1 once in six years. Same with Peyton Manning, he's only been QB1 ONCE in 9 years. So odds on favorite means what, 25%? 40%?So yes Manning/LT are the favorites to finish at RB1/QB1, but it rarely happens. If they finished RB2/QB2, RB3/QB3, that would be a very normal outcome giving their careers.

So I'd have to agree with SSOG, I also wouldn't want 2 LTs. Give me LT and SJAX. It lowers your variance, which I would consider very important. Sure some weeks 2 LT would give you insane points, but in a H2H league blowing a guy out doesn't earn you extra credit. And when LT is on bye, or has an off week, it's twice as bad.

Having SJAX should limit the lows, and also limit the highs. But add in injuries, bye weeks, age, I'd feel much better about having LT/SJAX.

Lets take it a step further. Would you prefer LT/LT/LT/LT (in a start 4 rb league) or LT/LT/SJAX/LJ? The variance on the 4 LT team would be crazy. You live and die based on LT. People forget in 2004/2005 LT had fairly big drop offs in production late in the year. People forget LT never finished RB1 before last year. So if he gets 16-17 tds, 1,400 yards, that be fairly normal given his career. Someone else ending RB1 would be fairly normal given LTs career. People get locked into "LT 30 TDs for 2007" type thinking.

We can expand it even further.

Manning

Manning

LT

LT

LT

LT

CJ

CJ

CJ

As our starting lineup. We're either going to score a boat load, or get crushed.

Manning

Palmer

LT

LT

SJAX

LJ

CJ

SS

Fitz

Which is better? Again injuries, byes, variance. You hedge your production by diversifying. Do you invest all your savings in a single stock? Probably not. It's probably the best way to make the most money. But you can also get burned.

So yeah, I agree with SSOG.

 

[Pipes]

This sounds jacked up. So theorhetically the championship game could be two teams with the same starting lineups facing each other?

 

[bklyn bums]

And you can own the same guy twice? What is having 2 LT2's worth?

Not much if he tears his ACL.While two LTs might sound great in theory, in practice I'd much rather have 1 LT and 1 S-Jax.

SSOG,Are you really that risk averse? I'd take two LTs over 1 LT and 1 SJ in a heartbeat. Wow, what the hell are we talking about here! Night boys.

To be honest, that's just good old-fashioned good sense. LT is getting old, and has a lot of wear and tear on him. While I think he should be the #1 pick, I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised if he went down sometime this season. With LT/SJax you're still poised to win the championship easily, and if one goes down, you don't automatically go from contender to pretender. Basically, I trust that my fantasy football skills are going to be better than the skills of my league-mates, and as a result, I don't NEED a million points of differential from my RBs- I'd rather guarantee myself merely great production and let my superior roster-assembly skills elsewhere carry the day.Besides, having two of a single player is a massive risk in a single-elimination format like the playoffs. In week 17 last year, Tomlinson scored 8 points. The year before, from weeks 14-16, he scored 7.5, 8.5, and 6.5, failing to make the end zone a single time during that span, and how can any of us forget the time he rushed 17 times for 7 yards against a porous Philly run defense (finished the season 21st in rushing yards allowed)? If you build a team with two Tomlinsons, you aren't going to have much of anything else (since you will have given up almost anything else of value to get the second Tomlinson), and you simply WILL NOT be able to survive a mediocre game in the playoffs, since you won't have much supporting talent to carry the day. In a total points league, I might be more apt to grab a pair of Tomlinsons (although I still like Tomlinson/SJax to reduce my overall injury risk), but in a league where performance only counts for the week and extra points don't roll over, I'd rather win by 10 every week than win by 30 half of the weeks and lose by 10 the other half (especially, again, once the single-elimination playoffs roll around)- even though the second way will result in double the scoring differential.

The basic principle here is that there are two variables to roster makeup. There's mean score, and there's standard deviation. If you have a good team (high mean score), then you want to minimize standard deviation to avoid collapsing and getting upset on any given week. If you have a bad team (low mean score), then you want to maximize standard deviation to maximize your chances of blowing up and stealing an upset. Since I believe I'm a solid owner, and operate under the assumption that I will be fielding a good team, I would immediately seek to minimize my standard deviation. I suppose you could call it "risk adverse", but I'd much prefer to call it smart planning.

Thanks guys for all the input.One of the things the League ruled was no duplicate players on a team, by draft, trade or any other means.

So the worst you could have is LT playing LT once in a while. And, with 40 man roster with 20 starters, not likely players on team A = players on team B.

Even with SCHIZO's League with 3X players there isn't very much similarity between rosters. Like some of you pointed out, if RBs: LT LT LT and he goes down THAT'S A BIG HURT. someone will go for it, others obviously not.

Getting back to my other question Is there value in (B) more draft picks in lower rounds or (B) trading off some lower picks for a few higher picks & starters? With the value calculator (Thanks SSOG) you can work almost any combination of picks to an even value by increasing or decreasing the number of picks.

Since this is the initial draft for the league with some keepers, is the number of picks or value more important?

I'm leaning toward Value and filing holes from the FA's.

 

[Fullback Fro]

pm shuke - he helped me a ton with a league like this

 

[onionsack]

SCHIZO!

40 teams, THREE player clones. It's a great concept, and my favorite Zealots league by quite a lot. Trading possibilities multiplied exponentially.

I don't like 40/3 - it doesn't work out evenly. I'm in a league very much like the one bklyn bums described, love it. It's a good concept, if there's a player you like, and someone else happens to like him as much, you still have a chance to get him. In theory, the owner can't hold out too long, or the other owner will get the deal.