Anyone targeting Berrian now that Favre is wearing horns? (1 Viewer)

[whodeywhodey]

I liked Berrian before the Favre signing and I REALLY like him now.

I think his hamstring injury is the perfect smoke screen to grab Berrian a few rounds below where he should go.

Where some see risks I see opportunity. I'm actually glad that he slipped a little. Now I hope that he can get back on the field soon to get some reps in with Favre.

 

[whodeywhodey]

BTW here is the latest on Berrian:

Bernard Berrian (hamstring) missed another day of practice Monday, but said on his Twitter page that he is "getting better day by day."

There's no timetable for Berrian's return. And at this point, no one probably cares because Brett Favre appears en route. It's likely Berrian will want to get back on the field as soon as possible to get some work in with Favre.

 

[Casting Couch]

Favre didn't do a whole lot for Coles or Cotchery's value last yr.

I expect a WR downgrade from Sage to Favre.

 

[Gopher State]

Favre + BB = $$$$$$

Anyone who thinks Favre is a downgrade from Sage or Tjack is just crazy.

 

[cantstop1999]

If healthy BB will have a nice year i would add 2-3 TDS and 200 yards on top of last year. 964 and 7 TDS

 

[Casting Couch]

Favre + BB = $$$$$$Anyone who thinks Favre is a downgrade from Sage or Tjack is just crazy.

He did little for Coles or Cotchery last year. Dude is a washed up bum.

 

[SproutDaddy]

Favre + BB = $$$$$$Anyone who thinks Favre is a downgrade from Sage or Tjack is just crazy.

He did little for Coles or Cotchery last year. Dude is a washed up bum.

Dude is 40 with a bum arm. He throws more INTs than TDs.He just isn't the MVP candidate he once was.

 

[Captain Spaulding]

Favre + BB = $$$$$$Anyone who thinks Favre is a downgrade from Sage or Tjack is just crazy.

He did little for Coles or Cotchery last year. Dude is a washed up bum.

I own Berian in a dynasty league. Looking to trade him now while the Farve hype is at its peak. Hopefully some goon owner in our league will think Berian has top 10 WR potential. I think 15-25 is more likely and probably Farve's presence will have no impact...probably closer to the lower end of that scale. Yes Farve is old and washed up.

 

[AllVolUT]

Favre + BB = $$$$$$Anyone who thinks Favre is a downgrade from Sage or Tjack is just crazy.

He did little for Coles or Cotchery last year. Dude is a washed up bum.

Dude is 40 with a bum arm. He throws more INTs than TDs.He just isn't the MVP candidate he once was.

A lot of Favre hate in here. It's easy to remember that Favre struggled down the stretch of last season to finish 9-7. It's also easy to forget that the Jets finished 4-12 in 2007. I don't mean to imply that was all Favre's doing, but give a little credit where credit is due.

 

[SproutDaddy]

Favre + BB = $$$$$$Anyone who thinks Favre is a downgrade from Sage or Tjack is just crazy.

He did little for Coles or Cotchery last year. Dude is a washed up bum.

Dude is 40 with a bum arm. He throws more INTs than TDs.He just isn't the MVP candidate he once was.

A lot of Favre hate in here. It's easy to remember that Favre struggled down the stretch of last season to finish 9-7. It's also easy to forget that the Jets finished 4-12 in 2007. I don't mean to imply that was all Favre's doing, but give a little credit where credit is due.

There is much more Favre love than hate on these boards. The guy is past his prime and has arm issues, plain and simple. I'm not trying to take away from his accomplishments, but his situation doesn't look ideal for success on the NFL and fantasy levels.

 

[AllVolUT]

Favre + BB = $$$$$$Anyone who thinks Favre is a downgrade from Sage or Tjack is just crazy.

He did little for Coles or Cotchery last year. Dude is a washed up bum.

Dude is 40 with a bum arm. He throws more INTs than TDs.He just isn't the MVP candidate he once was.

A lot of Favre hate in here. It's easy to remember that Favre struggled down the stretch of last season to finish 9-7. It's also easy to forget that the Jets finished 4-12 in 2007. I don't mean to imply that was all Favre's doing, but give a little credit where credit is due.

There is much more Favre love than hate on these boards. The guy is past his prime and has arm issues, plain and simple. I'm not trying to take away from his accomplishments, but his situation doesn't look ideal for success on the NFL and fantasy levels.

Definitely past his prime, but IMO, a past his prime Favre > Sage/Tavaris. Apparently, the Vikings organization feels the same way.

 

[corpcow]

Favre + BB = $$$$$$Anyone who thinks Favre is a downgrade from Sage or Tjack is just crazy.

He did little for Coles or Cotchery last year. Dude is a washed up bum.

Dude is 40 with a bum arm. He throws more INTs than TDs.He just isn't the MVP candidate he once was.

A lot of Favre hate in here. It's easy to remember that Favre struggled down the stretch of last season to finish 9-7. It's also easy to forget that the Jets finished 4-12 in 2007. I don't mean to imply that was all Favre's doing, but give a little credit where credit is due.

There is much more Favre love than hate on these boards. The guy is past his prime and has arm issues, plain and simple. I'm not trying to take away from his accomplishments, but his situation doesn't look ideal for success on the NFL and fantasy levels.

Outside of his 6 TD outburst against Arizona, Favre played pretty poorly on the whole last year. And this is including a number of scenarios where where he really got bailed out - one that stands out for me was the first or second game, when he literally just tossed up a duck on 4th down that Stuckey somehow came down with for a score. Worked out well, but was not exactly a high percentage play. As a Jets fan, it was actually pretty painful to watch. In 2007, Pennington got a bad rap and Clemens was, well, pretty piss poor. At the same time, don't forget that we brought in Faneca and Woody and Jenkins prior to 2008 - really changed what the team was capable of and into more of a power running game. Sadly, I think Chad was a MUCH better fit for that kind of offense - he was just put in a position in 2007 where he had to play to his weaknesses. Chad was a great game manager but couldn't exactly create throws on his own in a comeback scenario where CBs could just sit back on the routes. Likewise, Favre is actually a terrible fit for Minny's strengths right now. They are a power running team first and foremost - and a dynamic one at that - and play good defense. If I have a team like that, the last thing I want is a QB throwing 20+ INTs.... I want an efficient QB who is smart with the ball and that defenses have to respect just enough to open things up and not stack the box constantly.I also think Tarvaris gets a terrible rap as well. He actually looked pretty solid those last few games he started in the regular season. (We'll leave the playoff game out, because he was not great there). Still, he was better statistically than Favre for the majority of the season. I also honestly think Sage is a better option too right now.I love the storyline, playing the Packers 2x a year, etc etc... but especially with the injury, Favre's best years are clearly behind him. I suspect people who think he'll be the savior for the Minny passing offense will be very disappointed.

 

[corpcow]

Definitely past his prime, but IMO, a past his prime Favre > Sage/Tavaris. Apparently, the Vikings organization feels the same way.

You don't think the PR element - Favre playing in the division, twice against the Packers, etc - has anything to do with it? I suspect that plays an important role in the decision, perhaps even more than just pure skill/ability and what's best for the team right now.

 

[Casting Couch]

Favre + BB = $$$$$$Anyone who thinks Favre is a downgrade from Sage or Tjack is just crazy.

He did little for Coles or Cotchery last year. Dude is a washed up bum.

I own Berian in a dynasty league. Looking to trade him now while the Farve hype is at its peak. Hopefully some goon owner in our league will think Berian has top 10 WR potential. I think 15-25 is more likely and probably Farve's presence will have no impact...probably closer to the lower end of that scale. Yes Farve is old and washed up.

Berrian is a fantastic SELL right now, imo.

 

[JohnnyU]

Definitely past his prime, but IMO, a past his prime Favre > Sage/Tavaris. Apparently, the Vikings organization feels the same way.

Sounds like MN is grasping at straws.

 

[karmarooster]

2007 with Pennington and Kellen

Cotchery: 82 for 1100 yards 2 TDs

Coles: 55 for 650 yards 6 TDs (12 games played)

2008 with Favre:

Cotchery: 71 for 850 yards 5 TDs

Coles: 70 for 850 yards 7 TDs

if Favre didn't help these WRs improve from Pennington and Kellen, what makes you think he will improve the numbers of Berrian, Rice, or Harvin over Rosenfels? Personally i think Sage would be better for their fantasy numbers, because Favre has turned into a TE and RB guy. Sage had a sick yards per attempt last year (8.2) compared to Favre (6.7).

Also Favre's TD-INT ratio last year: 22-22

Rosenfels last two years combined 22-21

 

[AllVolUT]

Outside of his 6 TD outburst against Arizona, Favre played pretty poorly on the whole last year. And this is including a number of scenarios where where he really got bailed out - one that stands out for me was the first or second game, when he literally just tossed up a duck on 4th down that Stuckey somehow came down with for a score. Worked out well, but was not exactly a high percentage play. As a Jets fan, it was actually pretty painful to watch.

In 2007, Pennington got a bad rap and Clemens was, well, pretty piss poor. At the same time, don't forget that we brought in Faneca and Woody and Jenkins prior to 2008 - really changed what the team was capable of and into more of a power running game. Sadly, I think Chad was a MUCH better fit for that kind of offense - he was just put in a position in 2007 where he had to play to his weaknesses. Chad was a great game manager but couldn't exactly create throws on his own in a comeback scenario where CBs could just sit back on the routes.

Likewise, Favre is actually a terrible fit for Minny's strengths right now. They are a power running team first and foremost - and a dynamic one at that - and play good defense. If I have a team like that, the last thing I want is a QB throwing 20+ INTs.... I want an efficient QB who is smart with the ball and that defenses have to respect just enough to open things up and not stack the box constantly.

I also think Tarvaris gets a terrible rap as well. He actually looked pretty solid those last few games he started in the regular season. (We'll leave the playoff game out, because he was not great there). Still, he was better statistically than Favre for the majority of the season. I also honestly think Sage is a better option too right now.

I love the storyline, playing the Packers 2x a year, etc etc... but especially with the injury, Favre's best years are clearly behind him. I suspect people who think he'll be the savior for the Minny passing offense will be very disappointed.

You know, that's a good point. I was out grabbing a few beers with an old buddy tonight and got to thinking about the Favre and Minnesota connection. I feel like the Vikings are solid contenders in almost every aspect of the game, excluding the suspect QB play. Now that I think about it, the Vikings need more of a game manager instead of a gunslinger. I am very curious to see how this will end up playing out, but I could see both sides of the coin here. Still, I have a hard time believing that Favre isn't an upgrade over Sage or Tavaris. IMO, Favre is similar to Sage but with more experience and a better skill-set. Both guys seem to be rather careless with ball...but with my decision on the line, I'd still want to roll with #4.

 

[King of the Wolfies]

I think berrian fits better with favre than the jets WRs did, but I would still sell Berrian high right now.

 

[AllVolUT]

2007 with Pennington and KellenCotchery: 82 for 1100 yards 2 TDsColes: 55 for 650 yards 6 TDs (12 games played)2008 with Favre:Cotchery: 71 for 850 yards 5 TDsColes: 70 for 850 yards 7 TDsif Favre didn't help these WRs improve from Pennington and Kellen, what makes you think he will improve the numbers of Berrian, Rice, or Harvin over Rosenfels? Personally i think Sage would be better for their fantasy numbers, because Favre has turned into a TE and RB guy. Sage had a sick yards per attempt last year (8.2) compared to Favre (6.7). Also Favre's TD-INT ratio last year: 22-22Rosenfels last two years combined 22-21

Fair points, but I don't believe the figures to be so black and white. 1. It's hard to quantify stats from different teams and schemes. 2. Thomas Jones went from 3.6 ypc in 2007 to 4.5 ypc in 2008. Did the O-Line cohesiveness improve that much, or was Favre the primary factor in limiting the stacked box? Probably a little of both. IMO, Favre was definitely an improvement over the NYJ QB play of 2007. Will he be an improvement of what Sage would have done? I guess we will never know...but in my opinion, I think he is.

 

[karmarooster]

2007 with Pennington and KellenCotchery: 82 for 1100 yards 2 TDsColes: 55 for 650 yards 6 TDs (12 games played)2008 with Favre:Cotchery: 71 for 850 yards 5 TDsColes: 70 for 850 yards 7 TDsif Favre didn't help these WRs improve from Pennington and Kellen, what makes you think he will improve the numbers of Berrian, Rice, or Harvin over Rosenfels? Personally i think Sage would be better for their fantasy numbers, because Favre has turned into a TE and RB guy. Sage had a sick yards per attempt last year (8.2) compared to Favre (6.7). Also Favre's TD-INT ratio last year: 22-22Rosenfels last two years combined 22-21

Fair points, but I don't believe the figures to be so black and white. 1. It's hard to quantify stats from different teams and schemes. 2. Thomas Jones went from 3.6 ypc in 2007 to 4.5 ypc in 2008. Did the O-Line cohesiveness improve that much, or was Favre the primary factor in limiting the stacked box? Probably a little of both. IMO, Favre was definitely an improvement over the NYJ QB play of 2007. Will he be an improvement of what Sage would have done? I guess we will never know...but in my opinion, I think he is.

yes that's what i'm getting at; the numbers aren't black and white. they are almost the same! 141 vs. 137 catches, 1700 vs. 1750 yards... only difference being 12 TDs vs. 8.if Favre wasn't much better than a bad pennington (he was pretty bad that year) and a stinky clemmons, then i don't expect favre to be much better than Tjax and Frerrotte - when it comes to WRs. he will be more of a benefit to the running game than the passing game.

 

[glumpy]

Definitely past his prime, but IMO, a past his prime Favre > Sage/Tavaris. Apparently, the Vikings organization feels the same way.

You don't think the PR element - Favre playing in the division, twice against the Packers, etc - has anything to do with it? I suspect that plays an important role in the decision, perhaps even more than just pure skill/ability and what's best for the team right now.

I suspect the PR element is the major part of this deal. It's going to sell seats.

 

[Orlando RMF]

2007 with Pennington and KellenCotchery: 82 for 1100 yards 2 TDsColes: 55 for 650 yards 6 TDs (12 games played)2008 with Favre:Cotchery: 71 for 850 yards 5 TDsColes: 70 for 850 yards 7 TDsif Favre didn't help these WRs improve from Pennington and Kellen, what makes you think he will improve the numbers of Berrian, Rice, or Harvin over Rosenfels? Personally i think Sage would be better for their fantasy numbers, because Favre has turned into a TE and RB guy. Sage had a sick yards per attempt last year (8.2) compared to Favre (6.7). Also Favre's TD-INT ratio last year: 22-22Rosenfels last two years combined 22-21

Fair points, but I don't believe the figures to be so black and white. 1. It's hard to quantify stats from different teams and schemes. 2. Thomas Jones went from 3.6 ypc in 2007 to 4.5 ypc in 2008. Did the O-Line cohesiveness improve that much, or was Favre the primary factor in limiting the stacked box? Probably a little of both. IMO, Favre was definitely an improvement over the NYJ QB play of 2007. Will he be an improvement of what Sage would have done? I guess we will never know...but in my opinion, I think he is.

The real winner here is Peterson, defenses last year keyed on Peterson and occasionally they got a deep ball out to Berrian, this year no more 8 in the box. Defenses will also have to watch Harvin, I believe he will be another key weapon here. Peterson may end up with unbelievable numbers. Favre made Thomas Jones look like a stud what can he do for Peterson?

 

[meatwad1]

2007 with Pennington and KellenCotchery: 82 for 1100 yards 2 TDsColes: 55 for 650 yards 6 TDs (12 games played)2008 with Favre:Cotchery: 71 for 850 yards 5 TDsColes: 70 for 850 yards 7 TDsif Favre didn't help these WRs improve from Pennington and Kellen, what makes you think he will improve the numbers of Berrian, Rice, or Harvin over Rosenfels? Personally i think Sage would be better for their fantasy numbers, because Favre has turned into a TE and RB guy. Sage had a sick yards per attempt last year (8.2) compared to Favre (6.7). Also Favre's TD-INT ratio last year: 22-22Rosenfels last two years combined 22-21

Fair points, but I don't believe the figures to be so black and white. 1. It's hard to quantify stats from different teams and schemes. 2. Thomas Jones went from 3.6 ypc in 2007 to 4.5 ypc in 2008. Did the O-Line cohesiveness improve that much, or was Favre the primary factor in limiting the stacked box? Probably a little of both. IMO, Favre was definitely an improvement over the NYJ QB play of 2007. Will he be an improvement of what Sage would have done? I guess we will never know...but in my opinion, I think he is.

The real winner here is Peterson, defenses last year keyed on Peterson and occasionally they got a deep ball out to Berrian, this year no more 8 in the box. Defenses will also have to watch Harvin, I believe he will be another key weapon here. Peterson may end up with unbelievable numbers. Favre made Thomas Jones look like a stud what can he do for Peterson?

I disagree...there are going to be more interceptions and turnovers, so that will translate into less carries, plus Peterson is not a pass catching back. If Favre's arm strength is affected, and I think it probably is after shoulder surgury for a 40 year old (the body does not heal the same as it does for a 20 or even a 30 yr old), then defenses can continue to stack the box as much as they like. Also, people forget the Vikes lost Birk...he is a pro bowl center, went to Harvard, made all the calls on the line. If you could replace those types everyday, then every team would have a sick o-line. Believe me, that will have an effect on the running game.

 

[JFT Ben]

I disagree...there are going to be more interceptions and turnovers, so that will translate into less carries, plus Peterson is not a pass catching back. If Favre's arm strength is affected, and I think it probably is after shoulder surgury for a 40 year old (the body does not heal the same as it does for a 20 or even a 30 yr old), then defenses can continue to stack the box as much as they like. Also, people forget the Vikes lost Birk...he is a pro bowl center, went to Harvard, made all the calls on the line. If you could replace those types everyday, then every team would have a sick o-line. Believe me, that will have an effect on the running game.

Agree with the Birk point. Additionally to the new Center, they have a rookie RT that while beefy in the run game, isn't known for his agility or pass blocking. They play three 3-4 defenses in the first 4 weeks (Cleveland, San Fran and Green Bay), which is more exotic than the standard 4-3 more typical in the NFC and especially the north (prior to GB this year). If the line calls aren't right or Loadholt whifs on a blitz mixup on third and 8, Favre could be taking some big shots those weeks. And don't think defenses won't attack those new linemen until they show they can stop it.

 

[ookook]

I think that the primary benificiary will be Rice, who is very cheap right now. His routes are the ones Favre favors.

As far as "washed up", in 2007 Favre put up great numbers playing in very similar system. That was with a good team; the Vikings are a very good team. Anyone who thinks he cannot throw is frankly naive. Not much has changed since 2007...when he had over 4,000 yards, 28 TDs, and 15 INTs. And this situation is much more similar to that in 2007 than the Jets were.

With that said, I fully expect the Vikings to throw less...so Favre will have fewer attempts. Like 475 instead of 550. So 22 TDs and 14 INTs. This is fantasy value being affected not NFL value.

And I think ADP gets more TDs due to Favre's presence.

 

[Dolfan]

I think that the primary benificiary will be Rice, who is very cheap right now. His routes are the ones Favre favors.

...

As far as "washed up", in 2007 Favre put up great numbers playing in very similar system. That was with a good team; the Vikings are a very good team. Anyone who thinks he cannot throw is frankly naive. Not much has changed since 2007...when he had over 4,000 yards, 28 TDs, and 15 INTs. And this situation is much more similar to that in 2007 than the Jets were.

With that said, I fully expect the Vikings to throw less...so Favre will have fewer attempts. Like 475 instead of 550. So 22 TDs and 14 INTs. This is fantasy value being affected not NFL value.

And I think ADP gets more TDs due to Favre's presence.

I totally agree with the second part of your post -- I think the Favre-haters are discounting his injury's affect on his performances last year. Assuming he is recovered from the injury, obviously a big assumption, I don't see any reason to believe that Favre won't improve dramitically from last year.. Not to mention Minnesota's surrounding talent >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jets' surrounding talent...It is the bolded part of your post that I found interesting... I would've said the same thing about Percy Harvin...

Is the general consensus that Minnesota WRs fantasy value for 2009 is 1. Berrian; 2. Rice; and 3. Harvin?

Does anyone think Harvin could end up the one with the most fantasy points and worth a spot start at WR3??