Appraisers - A little feedback please (1 Viewer)

[Papa Georgio]

I just got an appraisal back on a property and it is about 32k less than one that was done in 2009, despite about 20k in improvements to the home since. I was already a little antsy because the guy had to be contacted after several weeks and reminded to do the job. His claim was that he was told the deal was dead, checked with everyone involved and no one had told him such a thing. So once I get the appraisal I start to check on this guys work. There was 270 square feet missing from his appraisal. My first thought was that he didn't include the sun room eventhough it is heated and cooled, but he had included it. Turns out out he mis-measured the width of the house in both the front and the back. The length is fine. I pulled an old appraisal and I also went and measured myself and it all lined up to say the new appraisal is wrong. Basically it's about 12 feet shorter in the back and 8 feet in the front.

Is it possible to make this easy of a mistake or does this seem more intentional? I really don't know but the fact it was the width on both mistakes and all the pictures of this area he took at an extreme angle had me wondering. I have no idea what he would have to gain and I have never spoken to the man personally so me rubbing him the wrong way is out.

I am sure it is just an honest mistake but a friend who looked at his work said he basically butchered it. Thanks for the input.

 

[bagger]

most appraisers are morons.

 

[The Big Guy]

I think most apprasiers take a lot of their information from public records and old MLS listings, so sometimes it is what it is. Having said that, since value is primarily based on comparable sales, that is the part that you should be trying to tear apart. Look at the distance, make sure comps are under 1 mile. Look at the houses shown and make sure he is not just including short sales etc. Look and make sure that the comps are truly comparable to your home, not homes in lower value subdivisions or a lot of smaller houses that is was doing sq ft adjustments upwards on.

 

[Papa Georgio]

I think most apprasiers take a lot of their information from public records and old MLS listings, so sometimes it is what it is. Having said that, since value is primarily based on comparable sales, that is the part that you should be trying to tear apart. Look at the distance, make sure comps are under 1 mile. Look at the houses shown and make sure he is not just including short sales etc. Look and make sure that the comps are truly comparable to your home, not homes in lower value subdivisions or a lot of smaller houses that is was doing sq ft adjustments upwards on.

His comps are terrible, he even complains about it in his report. One house is 3 cities away (20 miles). It is a somewhat rural area however, having been in the housing market for a while there are plenty of homes in the area that he could've used.

 

[cstu]

I think most apprasiers take a lot of their information from public records and old MLS listings, so sometimes it is what it is. Having said that, since value is primarily based on comparable sales, that is the part that you should be trying to tear apart. Look at the distance, make sure comps are under 1 mile. Look at the houses shown and make sure he is not just including short sales etc. Look and make sure that the comps are truly comparable to your home, not homes in lower value subdivisions or a lot of smaller houses that is was doing sq ft adjustments upwards on.

His comps are terrible, he even complains about it in his report. One house is 3 cities away (20 miles). It is a somewhat rural area however, having been in the housing market for a while there are plenty of homes in the area that he could've used.

He sounds like a horrible appraiser.

First thing to do is to write a list of the issues you have a problem with and contact your lender. The lender will ask the appraiser to address the issues and give him an opportunity to raise the price.

 

[got_nugs]

most appraisers are morons.

It's amazing how wide the quality variance is between appraisers. I've reviewed work that made me want to call the FBI for fraud, others where I grabbed a pen to take notes for my own files.

Op I sent you a pm. Finding comps within a mile, 3 months and without adjustments is a terrific theory in your appraisal for dummy's textbook but real life often doesn't lend a hand in this practice.

 

[Papa Georgio]

I took the guys own layout diagram highlighted his mistakes and wrote the correct lengths in. I then added the diagram from a past appraisal. Lastly I took a picture of an area that he said was 2 foot long that is actually 16 feet. I then sent all of this to my lender. I believe she thought that I was just unhappy with the price "since everyone thinks their house is worth more than it is" but after seeing what I provided she is checking into everything. I am not really sure what will end up happening but hopefully at some point a more accurate appraisal will be issued.

 

[T Bell]

I just got an appraisal back on a property and it is about 32k less than one that was done in 2009, despite about 20k in improvements to the home since. I was already a little antsy because the guy had to be contacted after several weeks and reminded to do the job. His claim was that he was told the deal was dead, checked with everyone involved and no one had told him such a thing. So once I get the appraisal I start to check on this guys work. There was 270 square feet missing from his appraisal. My first thought was that he didn't include the sun room eventhough it is heated and cooled, but he had included it. Turns out out he mis-measured the width of the house in both the front and the back. The length is fine. I pulled an old appraisal and I also went and measured myself and it all lined up to say the new appraisal is wrong. Basically it's about 12 feet shorter in the back and 8 feet in the front.

Is it possible to make this easy of a mistake or does this seem more intentional? I really don't know but the fact it was the width on both mistakes and all the pictures of this area he took at an extreme angle had me wondering. I have no idea what he would have to gain and I have never spoken to the man personally so me rubbing him the wrong way is out.

I am sure it is just an honest mistake but a friend who looked at his work said he basically butchered it. Thanks for the input.

Out of curiosity, what is the price per square foot of the house as he appraised it, and how many square feet did he leave off?

 

[T Bell]

most appraisers are morons lazy.

Fixed.

 

[got_nugs]

Seems like you're on the right track. T Bell is right...most likely just an error and not intentional. 2ft vs 16ft is significant(obviously). The angled photos are most likely more a product of AMC requirements over intentionally misleading anyone would be my guess.

 

[Papa Georgio]

He was off 270 sf and it was right around $73 per sf.

I don't think this matters but I am getting this home through probate. We made an offer on the home and before the owner could reply he passed away. So we are getting it at a very nice price. His original appraisal was for more than the contract price but if I am paying for an appraisal I want it done correctly. It also will affect my out of pocket money and rate.

 

[towney]

The error in sq footage could be coming from property appraisers site for appraisers get that information there instead of measuring themselves (lazy). You should be able to dispute the appraisal with the lender, each lender should have their own quidelines and protocal to dispute.

20 miles away on comps is unusual unless you live in a very rural area with now homes of like and similar to yours. Most lenders and/or AMC's will have quality control checks and this could be a red flag to see why comps were taken from that far away.

You mentioned effecting out of pocket money and rate, how so? Is the contract price higher? Did you question him on why the original appraisal was higher?

I'm with you on having the appraisal done correctly with correct value, but a lower appraisal could bring a lower selling price for you, if it applies.

 

[T Bell]

He was off 270 sf and it was right around $73 per sf.

I don't think this matters but I am getting this home through probate. We made an offer on the home and before the owner could reply he passed away. So we are getting it at a very nice price. His original appraisal was for more than the contract price but if I am paying for an appraisal I want it done correctly. It also will affect my out of pocket money and rate.

That's about a $20,000 difference*, which more or less jives with the 2009 appraisal when also incorporating market changes, depending of course upon what the market in your particular area has done. This is probably a mistake in measurement. Either way, you've got enough to insist upon a reappraisal.

*This is of course a VERY crude way of figuring this out, however it's a decent seat-of-the pants method for determining the source of the problem here.

 

[cstu]

The error in sq footage could be coming from property appraisers site for appraisers get that information there instead of measuring themselves (lazy). You should be able to dispute the appraisal with the lender, each lender should have their own quidelines and protocal to dispute.

20 miles away on comps is unusual unless you live in a very rural area with now homes of like and similar to yours. Most lenders and/or AMC's will have quality control checks and this could be a red flag to see why comps were taken from that far away.

You mentioned effecting out of pocket money and rate, how so? Is the contract price higher? Did you question him on why the original appraisal was higher?

I'm with you on having the appraisal done correctly with correct value, but a lower appraisal could bring a lower selling price for you, if it applies.

I think he needs the appraisal to be higher so he can get the loan without putting a lot more cash in.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

After recalculating the square footage, find the guy some new comps based on your new sf#, expand the search as he has.. 2 can play that game..

 

[Long Ball Larry]

Before selling a house, is it worth it to get a professional appraisal, or do you think that a realtor is at least as capable of determining the appropriate price?

 

[comfortably numb]

Before selling a house, is it worth it to get a professional appraisal, or do you think that a realtor is at least as capable of determining the appropriate price?

A decent realtor should be able to give you a relative idea.

Just don't take their word, ask to see the comps of sold properties and properties under contract.

You can do this on your own as well.

I just personally wouldn't pay for the appraisal at this point.

 

[tommyGunZ]

So OP is buying this home through probate, but wants the appraisal to come in higher? Huh????

 

[Papa Georgio]

So OP is buying this home through probate, but wants the appraisal to come in higher? Huh????

Old thread but my complaint was that he was so far off on the square footage. He then was a jerk about coming back out and measuring again. His estimate directly affected my money down and interest rate and by making sure he got it right I literally saved thousands.

 

[The Ref]

Do your own honest appraisal. You don't need to pay someone to do it for you.

If you try and sell your house you will get Realtors who will lowball you to get your house to sell on day 1 and you will get Realtors who aim high to get your business.

 

[cstu]

Before selling a house, is it worth it to get a professional appraisal, or do you think that a realtor is at least as capable of determining the appropriate price?

A decent realtor should be able to give you a relative idea.

Just don't take their word, ask to see the comps of sold properties and properties under contract.

You can do this on your own as well.

I just personally wouldn't pay for the appraisal at this point.

If you're putting it on the market there's no need to pay an appraiser, that's a waste of money. A realtor can determine a ballpark figure and I suggest having at least two realtors give you a listing presentation with their estimate of value. From there you can decide whether to start with a low/middle/high listing price.

 

[cstu]

So OP is buying this home through probate, but wants the appraisal to come in higher? Huh????

Old thread but my complaint was that he was so far off on the square footage. He then was a jerk about coming back out and measuring again. His estimate directly affected my money down and interest rate and by making sure he got it right I literally saved thousands.

The guy screwed up and sounds like a ####. It's really odd that he could be off that much, especially with a laser measure.

I always like it when homeowners give me as much info as possible, including a copy of an old appraisal.

 

[eoMMan]

Before selling a house, is it worth it to get a professional appraisal, or do you think that a realtor is at least as capable of determining the appropriate price?

A decent realtor should be able to give you a relative idea.Just don't take their word, ask to see the comps of sold properties and properties under contract.

You can do this on your own as well.

I just personally wouldn't pay for the appraisal at this point.

The buyers pay for an appraisal, and the game is pretty well rigged to come in at the same number as the accepted offer.

When I bought, the "appraiser" didn't actually get to see inside the house. There was some urgency due to late paperwork and an approaching deadline, so she did a "drive by" of the home, scouted the information in the redfin listing, and came in at $600 over the offer.

I disagree. Appraisal values and accepted offers differ a lot of times. The bank won't loan more than what something appraises for. The most common cause of this, imo, is lack of comps. Some neighborhoods just don't have much buying/selling and it could be tough.

 

[cstu]

The buyers pay for an appraisal, and the game is pretty well rigged to come in at the same number as the accepted offer.

When I bought, the "appraiser" didn't actually get to see inside the house. There was some urgency due to late paperwork and an approaching deadline, so she did a "drive by" of the home, scouted the information in the redfin listing, and came in at $600 over the offer.

I wouldn't call it 'rigged'. It's more that there's no benefit to appraisers from coming in at higher than the selling price. I might want to put a value on a home that's $10,000 over selling price but there's no benefit to doing so since it only causes trouble with the bank. The deal will still go through but it's not worth my time to answer questions from the bank about it.

An appraiser usually find a way to meet the selling price if their opinion of value is say 1% off. Nobody is that good and it's bad for business to kill a deal over a small amount.