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Archie Manning's Saints career (1 Viewer)

J

JJP

Footballguy
To listen to some, Archie Manning was a borderline HoFer. A look at the stats shows that isn't the case.....not by a long stretch. I realize the team was bad, but one can't help think Archie had something to do with that. How about the golden years of 1974-1975? 13 combined TDs and 36 picks. Here's his career numbers, including a sub 70 QB rating

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MannAr00.htm

 
JJP said:
To listen to some, Archie Manning was a borderline HoFer. A look at the stats shows that isn't the case.....not by a long stretch. I realize the team was bad, but one can't help think Archie had something to do with that. How about the golden years of 1974-1975? 13 combined TDs and 36 picks. Here's his career numbers, including a sub 70 QB rating

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MannAr00.htm
Click to expand...
JJP, I have never heard it argued that Archie Manning should be in the HoF. What I hear repeatedly is that Archie Manning was an excellent QB and could have led some great teams to the NFL.For all the quality players in the SEC, Archie Manning was voted the greatest QB of the first 50 years. Over the likes of Joe Namath, Ken Stabler and others. That is how good he was.

I love the guy, but I would never argue that he belongs in the NFL HoF.

 
Saints-Man said:
JJP said:
To listen to some, Archie Manning was a borderline HoFer. A look at the stats shows that isn't the case.....not by a long stretch. I realize the team was bad, but one can't help think Archie had something to do with that. How about the golden years of 1974-1975? 13 combined TDs and 36 picks. Here's his career numbers, including a sub 70 QB rating

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MannAr00.htm
Click to expand...
JJP, I have never heard it argued that Archie Manning should be in the HoF. What I hear repeatedly is that Archie Manning was an excellent QB and could have led some great teams to the NFL.For all the quality players in the SEC, Archie Manning was voted the greatest QB of the first 50 years. Over the likes of Joe Namath, Ken Stabler and others. That is how good he was.

I love the guy, but I would never argue that he belongs in the NFL HoF.
Click to expand...
Maybe he was better than Namath or Stabler in college, but not in the NFL. I'm sure Tebow is pretty high on the all-time SEC list but I don't think we'll ever see him throw as many as 20 TDs in an NFL season.
 
JJP said:
...Maybe he was better than Namath or Stabler in college, but not in the NFL. I'm sure Tebow is pretty high on the all-time SEC list but I don't think we'll ever see him throw as many as 20 TDs in an NFL season.
Click to expand...
He was stuck in an horrible organization. He only had a decent OL briefly, and only quality WRs briefly. It would have been interesting to see him play for the Raiders with all that talent. I think he would have performed better than Stabler, but that is only my opinion.
 
Archie is a hero to all of the oldschool leatherhelmets who watched him get killed repeatedly on terrble teams and still gut it out. Think Brett Favre without Favre's talent, playing on a borderline college team in the NFL. He's got heart in spades, but there is some revisionist history regarding his talent.

He's a great Saint in the sense of his meaning and attachment to the city, and what he gave the team. Still probably the greatest (at least for another 12 days).

I can name 20 "greater" Saints in terms of talent level and production.

1. Drew Brees....

 
Last edited by a moderator:
JJP said:
To listen to some, Archie Manning was a borderline HoFer. A look at the stats shows that isn't the case.....not by a long stretch. I realize the team was bad, but one can't help think Archie had something to do with that. How about the golden years of 1974-1975? 13 combined TDs and 36 picks. Here's his career numbers, including a sub 70 QB rating

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MannAr00.htm
Click to expand...
He was a pretty average QB.
 
az_prof said:
JJP said:
To listen to some, Archie Manning was a borderline HoFer. A look at the stats shows that isn't the case.....not by a long stretch. I realize the team was bad, but one can't help think Archie had something to do with that. How about the golden years of 1974-1975? 13 combined TDs and 36 picks. Here's his career numbers, including a sub 70 QB rating

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MannAr00.htm
Click to expand...
He was a pretty average QB.
Click to expand...
No question he accumulated very average QB stats. But it is impossible to comprehend the beating he took and kept playing at that level. You are looking solely at the stat lines. It is like trying to describe Barry Sanders to someone who never watched him play. While I agree the numbers are a key measure, there is also the eyeball test that the numbers can't describe.

Again, Archie Manning was a quality NFL QB. It would have been great to see him play on a team with talent to see what he really could do. Given his NFL career and how it was, he should not even considered for the NFL HoF.

 
I don't think we'll ever know how good Archie Manning was. But among most Saints fans, I would say the general opinion is that he was an elite talent who either never got the opportunity to develop or whose talents were never able to shine through.

In other words, I would venture to guess that Peyton Manning (or Joe Montana/Dan Marino/etc.) would fare no better on those Saints teams.

 
Ever looked at Terry Bradshaw's stats early in his career? With the short leashes QBs have nowadays Bradshaw never would have made it past his 3rd or 4th year and probably would be a guy used in the same vein as Ryan Leaf and David Carr when looking for an example of a bad player.

 
Saints-Man said:
az_prof said:
JJP said:
To listen to some, Archie Manning was a borderline HoFer. A look at the stats shows that isn't the case.....not by a long stretch. I realize the team was bad, but one can't help think Archie had something to do with that. How about the golden years of 1974-1975? 13 combined TDs and 36 picks. Here's his career numbers, including a sub 70 QB rating

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MannAr00.htm
Click to expand...
He was a pretty average QB.
Click to expand...
No question he accumulated very average QB stats. But it is impossible to comprehend the beating he took and kept playing at that level. You are looking solely at the stat lines. It is like trying to describe Barry Sanders to someone who never watched him play. While I agree the numbers are a key measure, there is also the eyeball test that the numbers can't describe.

Again, Archie Manning was a quality NFL QB. It would have been great to see him play on a team with talent to see what he really could do. Given his NFL career and how it was, he should not even considered for the NFL HoF.
Click to expand...
I watched football back then and saw Manning play. He was ok but he was not great. I don't ever, not once, remember thinking: Dang, we are playing against Archie! Or, o No, Archie will bring them back in the fourth to beat us. Staubach.? Yes. Jim Hart? Yes. Stabler? Yes. Archie Manning? Uhhhh, No.
 
az_prof said:
Saints-Man said:
az_prof said:
JJP said:
To listen to some, Archie Manning was a borderline HoFer. A look at the stats shows that isn't the case.....not by a long stretch. I realize the team was bad, but one can't help think Archie had something to do with that. How about the golden years of 1974-1975? 13 combined TDs and 36 picks. Here's his career numbers, including a sub 70 QB rating

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MannAr00.htm
Click to expand...
He was a pretty average QB.
Click to expand...
No question he accumulated very average QB stats. But it is impossible to comprehend the beating he took and kept playing at that level. You are looking solely at the stat lines. It is like trying to describe Barry Sanders to someone who never watched him play. While I agree the numbers are a key measure, there is also the eyeball test that the numbers can't describe.

Again, Archie Manning was a quality NFL QB. It would have been great to see him play on a team with talent to see what he really could do. Given his NFL career and how it was, he should not even considered for the NFL HoF.
Click to expand...
I watched football back then and saw Manning play. He was ok but he was not great. I don't ever, not once, remember thinking: Dang, we are playing against Archie! Or, o No, Archie will bring them back in the fourth to beat us. Staubach.? Yes. Jim Hart? Yes. Stabler? Yes. Archie Manning? Uhhhh, No.
Click to expand...
You were never afraid that the 70s-era Saints were going to come back to beat you? What a shock.
 
Archie WAS the Saints. A serious talent surrounded by a what may have been the worst franchise ever - certainly of that era. I always thought of him as a top 5 QB in talent, but not by any chance in terms of production. A less than agile guy WITHOUT blockers, and the need to pass - facing defenses with their ears pinned back - every play from the first quarter on. It seemed like every game he took worse than Favre got Sunday - and you knew that was his next week again, and the week after. I think Archie was better than Eli in terms of how he compared QBs of the day, but that was NOT an era of team parity. Recalling how bleak that was for Aint's, I find myself compelled to root for them even now.

 
It was a totally different era. Can't compare QB ratings and what not to modern-day players.

That said, stats-wise, Archie was not elite in his era. But that's looking at the numbers in a vacuum. The New Orleans Saints under then-owner John Mecom were comparable to the NBA's Clippers under Donald Sterling. Mecom, the playboy son of an oil-rich family, didn't care even a little bit about winning. Imcompetence was installed in the Saints front office from Day One, as being Mecom's buddy was more important than football acumen. Under this mismanagement, the Saints suffered through 15 seasons of abysmal drafting (not rectified until 1981 under Bum Phillips).

Back then, with no free agency, if your team kept drafting poorly, the hole dug kept getting deeper. There wasn't parity and annual turnover in the standings like there is now.

Despite all this, the Saints did put up high-flying offenses in the 1978 and 1979 seasons. That was the clearest window into what Archie's career might have looked like on a contender.

This is only anecdotal, but I recall an article in Football Digest, sometime around 1983-1985, where Archie was compared to Staubach, Stabler, and Griese. The consensus of the writers, players, and football insiders interviewed for the piece was that Archie had the physical tools and the acumen to have been a HOF-level player for Pittsburgh, Miami, Dallas, Los Angeles, Oakland, etc.

 
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