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Are Joe Burrow and the Bengals here to stay as a contender despite the 23-20 Super Bowl loss to the Rams? (1 Viewer)

voiceofunreason

Footballguy
Surprisingly, I say yes. I think with two additions to the offensive line, hopefully addressed in the draft and free agency, they should be sorta fine. They're not as good as Buffalo and KC (I don't know that KC was destined for anything but inconsistency at the highest levels this year), but they should contend. I look at the LA Chargers and Denver Broncos potentially getting a whole lot better in the AFC, and Jackson will be back in Baltimore, but those aren't make-or-break concerns. 

I look at the seven best teams in the AFC and I see

Buffalo
Kansas City
Tennessee
Cincinnati 
Los Angeles
New England 
Baltimore

That's what I'm looking at right now. Of course, depending on who lands Watson or Rodgers, or if anybody lands them, will also determine if those are the seven I'd pick tomorrow. If Denver procures Rodgers, they're immediately ahead of Baltimore. If Miami lands Watson, the same thing. 
I think kc is overrated. Kelce is slowing down, so they really only have Hill and the defense has a lot of problems. They also can't run the ball. Not that they aren't a playoff team but I think they need a lot of retooling.

 

Cjw_55106

Footballguy
I think kc is overrated. Kelce is slowing down, so they really only have Hill and the defense has a lot of problems. They also can't run the ball. Not that they aren't a playoff team but I think they need a lot of retooling.
I agree overall, but not sure about kelce slowing down. If you look at his numbers, this year was not any different than previous years as a whole. 

 

rockaction

Footballguy
I think kc is overrated. Kelce is slowing down, so they really only have Hill and the defense has a lot of problems. They also can't run the ball. Not that they aren't a playoff team but I think they need a lot of retooling.
I don't know that I'm overrating them, though. I don't consider them world beaters. I consider them the 2nd best team in the AFC right now, behind Buffalo, and noted their inconsistency (Buffalo had similar inconsistency, maybe even worse). I'm not sure who in the AFC I'd rank higher or how. Certainly not Tennessee. Not Cincinnati. KC played in a tough division this year and won it. Can you give an argument for another AFC team and why they're better than KC? 

 
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renesauz

IBL Representative
meh...they overachieved a little this year, but this was a good team with a terrific young QB. They aren't gonna pull a houdini act.

Getting back to the Super Bowl next year seems like a VERY tall order, but they'll be in the playoff mix for the foreseeable future

 

Ministry of Pain

Footballguy
Each of the last 16 quarterbacks to lose in their Super Bowl debut have never made it back to the big game

Are Joe Burrow and the Bengals here to stay as a contender despite the 23-20 Super Bowl loss to the Rams?
I needed your link or title before I wrote the rest of this. If we had started the thread with "The last 16 QBs...why will Burrow be any different?"

It gels so well with what I wrote, thanks for finding this. You always bring great information to the SP. 

-I know the deck is stacked against Burrow and i am rooting for him but if I had to bet real money, yeah might think he becomes QB17 on this list if the Bengals don't make major leaps from their traditional way of handling things. Taking Burrow No 1, Taking Chase top-5 to pair with your No 1, that's not hard. Keeping your star QB happy and surrounding him with pieces to succeed so he won't want to leave, much tougher and they didn't make Carson Palmer happy, anyone remember what happened when they had him on their team?  This was before social media where Murray can unfollow the Cardinals, nobody believed Palmer was truly going to stop playing for Cinci and you didn't hear Mort/Schefter reporting on this 24/7 until suddenly you realized as the season started that Palmer really wasn't going to play another snap for Mike Brown, same guy still sitting there. Has the light bulb really flipped on for him? Is Burrow so different from other QBs that he's employed in the past that he is now willing to trade in his stripes? 

 
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massraider

Footballguy
I am curious about the Rams. Whitworth will retire.  Aaron Donald may retire.  Stafford is getting older.  Will they be able to retain the guys that they have left?
They were a short term play, and they won a Super Bowl. They made some big bets acquiring some big names, and it all worked out. That strategy almost never pays off, but things really broke their way. 

They have some big contracts, and my guess is everyone there probably would like to make another run at it. My guess is there is some slow years ahead, but whatever, they took their shot, and it landed.

 

Neil Beaufort Zod

Footballguy
Now this is a damning statistic. I'd dismiss it if it was two or three, but 16?

It doesn't mean Burrow can't break that trend, but it definitely shows that you need to take advantage of the opportunity when you get it. The odds of getting back there are definitely against you. 

I think Burrow is a contender. The Bengals probably aren't. He's 25. He'll latch on to a better organization at some point and I think he'll be back in the big game. 

 

Ministry of Pain

Footballguy
They were a short term play, and they won a Super Bowl. They made some big bets acquiring some big names, and it all worked out. That strategy almost never pays off, but things really broke their way. 

They have some big contracts, and my guess is everyone there probably would like to make another run at it. My guess is there is some slow years ahead, but whatever, they took their shot, and it landed.
The Rams leveraged a lot including future picks including 1st rounders so there's no way they can continue like this. Matt Stafford will stick around as long they want him IMHO, he went thru a lot of losing in Detroit, my guess is he would assume they could get back on track with one season where they clear the books and start reworking with younger players that they ca then go bring in the needed vets to get them back to the top. 

-You are correct that buying players and trying to win like the Rams did doesn't usually work out but you have a very dedicated owner that doesn't try and put a stop to what his coaches and front office are trying to do for him. Everyone has been on the same page there. 

-Hard to believe McVay wants to stop but I point to Romo making $17M a season, McVay probably can see a path where he would make at least that much calling the plays before they unfold on live TV similar to when Romo can call the play looking at the Offense or Defense from above...Coach BB gets $12.5M per season and he has like a dozen Super bowl rings so McVay knows there is somewhat of a ceiling for salary in the NFL, networks don't seem to have a limit to get the audience to tune in. I could see him becoming the voice of MNF and getting Big Bucks over a long secure period of time with an out clause that he can return to coaching if something triggers his desire to do that again. 

McVay has nothing to prove at this point, his legend almost grows if he were to walk away or even just take a few years off in TV Land. 

 

Gally

Footballguy
Ministry of Pain said:
I needed your link or title before I wrote the rest of this. If we had started the thread with "The last 16 QBs...why will Burrow be any different?"
I would also say not many of them were of the caliber of Burrow:

  • Jimmy G
  • Goff
  • Ryan
  • Newton
  • Kaepernick
  • Grossman
  • Hasselbeck
  • McNabb
  • Delhomme
  • Gannon
  • K. Collins
  • McNair
  • Chandler
  • Bledsoe
  • O'Donnell
  • Humphries
Most of those guys' teams made it to the SB due to other aspects of their team and the QB was along for the ride.  The Bengals made it in large part because of Burrow.  I would say that is what makes him different than those guys.  Regardless, it is hard to make it back to the SB unless you are Brady.  There are also quite a few QB's that won their debut that never made it back.  It takes a lot to get to the SB.  

 

FreeBaGeL

Footballguy
I would also say not many of them were of the caliber of Burrow:

  • Jimmy G
  • Goff
  • Ryan
  • Newton
  • Kaepernick
  • Grossman
  • Hasselbeck
  • McNabb
  • Delhomme
  • Gannon
  • K. Collins
  • McNair
  • Chandler
  • Bledsoe
  • O'Donnell
  • Humphries
Most of those guys' teams made it to the SB due to other aspects of their team and the QB was along for the ride.  The Bengals made it in large part because of Burrow.  I would say that is what makes him different than those guys.  Regardless, it is hard to make it back to the SB unless you are Brady.  There are also quite a few QB's that won their debut that never made it back.  It takes a lot to get to the SB.  


That's easy to say in hindsight, just like it is for us to now point out the flaws of all the teams that made the Super Bowl and never became real consistent contenders in the past, while claiming that was different.

Yeah, we know Jared Goff sucks now, but he was one of the top young QBs in the league at the time as a 23 year old who had just thrown for almost 5000 yards and 35 TDs at 8.5ypa.  Remember the 54-51 matchup of him and Mahomes in the regular season was going be the next Peyton/Brady rivalry at the time.

Cam was an MVP at the time, Kaepernick a budding superstar, etc.  Yeah some of the guys on the list were game managers but there are a lot of guys on there who were considered to be near the top of the league or rising superstars at the time.

Honestly, as a team discounting Burrow, the Bengals look by far like the easiest to see a big regression of the majority of the teams on that list.  They have a ton of issues, were pretty mediocre in the regular season, etc.  Teams like the Panthers and 9ers (both times) etc looked much more like consistent contenders.

Burrow is of course the wildcard.  A great QB fixes a lot of problems.  We'll see if he's truly great or just pretty good though.  The last few minutes of that Super Bowl weren't exactly Patrick Mahomes vs. Josh Allen where you just knew whichever team got the ball last was going to win.

 
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babydemon90

Footballguy
If by 'contender' you mean likely to make the playoffs ever year and be in the mix?  Sure. Their division is ripe for the taking, there's no standouts, and plenty of average team play there. Are they going to be a Super Bowl favorite?  Not necessarily, but there's no reason they can't be in the top 3-4 teams of the AFC every year for the next 3 years.

They DO need to address the Oline tho, or all bets are off.

 

TwinTurbo

Footballguy
I say no for many reasons. 

-1st of all they need a lot of work despite the narrow loss. Their OL is leaky at best, they got Burrow killed Year 1 and they almost got him knocked out of the Super Bowl, he was never right after that injury where he cried out in pain on the replay. 

-They needed Lamar Jackson and Baker Mayfield injured and a decomposing Ben Roethlisberger, Cleveland has a much better Defense than CIncinatti and OL, Steelers are better on Defense, Baltimore might be better everywhere except at downfield passing at the QB position. I'm not sure Cincinnati can even win the AFC North in 2022. 

-How about Zac Taylor? The man should be FIRED!!! How do you not have the ball in Mixon's hands late on 3rd and 1, 4th and 1/2 a yard?  This is as egregious as Marshawn Lynch not getting the ball late in the Super Bowl with Seattle and New England where Wilson showed his true colors and throws the interception. Taylor should be fired and will continue to do poorly, he only needs to make the Playoffs and lose 1st round about 4-5 times in the next 15-20 years and he'll be just fine if Marvin Lewis was any measure of how the owner and front office treat their head coaches. 

-Brown is one of the worst owners in the league and much like Dolphins owner-Stephen Ross, Bengals tend not to change their stripes and I don't think Brown will have an epiphany. Taylor and Brown at the front of the ship steering things will be the unraveling of this team and eventually Joe Burrow wanting his way out of Cincinnati but I hope I am wrong for Burrow's sake. 

What say you?
I usually agree with most of your posts. On this one, I'm taking the opposite side for the following reasons. Full disclosure, I am not a Bengals fan. 

1. Burrow has "it". He's a top 3 QB in the AFC with Allen and Mahommes, apologies to Herbert. And any of those guys would be the #1 QB in the NFC in 2022. And while Lamar Jackson might be a better fantasy QB on any given Sunday, Burrow is hands down the best QB in the AFC North, maybe even the entire league.

2. He has the best WR group in the AFC. Burrow/Chase/Higgins/Boyd is almost not fair. 

3. Mixon is an elite RB. 

4. Zac Taylor is a better than average HC. Yes the defense needs improvement but this team is well positioned to challenge for AFC North supremacy and will continue to be in the playoff mix going forward. 

5. I'll concede Brown has been one of the worst owners in the league, but the Bengals finally have an elite franchise QB and made it back to the Superbowl in year 2. Contrast that with a team like the Lions that had Stafford for over a decade (and Megatron) and won nothing. Stafford leaves for the Rams and immediately wins it all in year 1. My point is that Brown is still somehow a better owner than the Ford family. 

 

Ministry of Pain

Footballguy
TwinTurbo said:
I usually agree with most of your posts. On this one, I'm taking the opposite side for the following reasons.
Thanks for acknowledging me, I love reading your posts as well. You had a lot to say and I want to digest some of it for a bit before I respond but you present some compelling reasons and it's hard for MoP to believe Burrow is from the same mold as the last 15-16 QBs that lost the Super Bowl and never return. 

 

Ministry of Pain

Footballguy
TwinTurbo said:
1. Burrow has "it". He's a top 3 QB in the AFC with Allen and Mahommes, apologies to Herbert. And any of those guys would be the #1 QB in the NFC in 2022. And while Lamar Jackson might be a better fantasy QB on any given Sunday, Burrow is hands down the best QB in the AFC North, maybe even the entire league.

2. He has the best WR group in the AFC. Burrow/Chase/Higgins/Boyd is almost not fair. 

3. Mixon is an elite RB. 

4. Zac Taylor is a better than average HC. Yes the defense needs improvement but this team is well positioned to challenge for AFC North supremacy and will continue to be in the playoff mix going forward. 

5. I'll concede Brown has been one of the worst owners in the league, but the Bengals finally have an elite franchise QB and made it back to the Superbowl in year 2. Contrast that with a team like the Lions that had Stafford for over a decade (and Megatron) and won nothing. Stafford leaves for the Rams and immediately wins it all in year 1. My point is that Brown is still somehow a better owner than the Ford family. 
1-I'm on board and cannot argue the "It" factor

2-Again not much to argue over here, I love Tee Higgins beyond what most are willing to bestow the guy and i think he's a No 1 WR on most teams except those with Chase on the team. 

You're 2-0!

3-WRONG! That guy comes up small a lot and maybe it's the OL but I've never once felt like Mixon is going to ruin my chances at beating an opponent. I also don't draft him so i'm a little bias. 

4-WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! he blows chunks and I was all over him during the season and he's one of the biggest reasons I think they are limited. 6-25 prior to this season, let's get real. When Burrow isn't on the field he can't coach worth a spit. 

5-Mike Brown?!  I'll take the split decision on this one. 

3-2! 😂

I hope you enjoyed this, I'm on board and understand that Joe Burrow is a very special QB, elite if we need to use that word. I'm concerned about the same things that ran Carson Palmer out of Cincinnati, he was incredible and they got him injured and he was never the same. History repeats...

 

TwinTurbo

Footballguy
1-I'm on board and cannot argue the "It" factor

2-Again not much to argue over here, I love Tee Higgins beyond what most are willing to bestow the guy and i think he's a No 1 WR on most teams except those with Chase on the team. 

You're 2-0!

3-WRONG! That guy comes up small a lot and maybe it's the OL but I've never once felt like Mixon is going to ruin my chances at beating an opponent. I also don't draft him so i'm a little bias. 

4-WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! he blows chunks and I was all over him during the season and he's one of the biggest reasons I think they are limited. 6-25 prior to this season, let's get real. When Burrow isn't on the field he can't coach worth a spit. 

5-Mike Brown?!  I'll take the split decision on this one. 

3-2! 😂

I hope you enjoyed this, I'm on board and understand that Joe Burrow is a very special QB, elite if we need to use that word. I'm concerned about the same things that ran Carson Palmer out of Cincinnati, he was incredible and they got him injured and he was never the same. History repeats...
Do you think Zac Taylor is a better coach than Mike McCarthy? Even Mike won a Superbowl (and a bunch of division titles) because Aaron Rodgers. I think when you have a QB like Burrow and a weakened division, it overcomes most coaching deficiencies. That said, whoever made the call to let Perine carry the ball on the last drive of the SB, instead of literally anyone else, should probably reevaluate themselves before next season. Mixon had a special season. I don't typically draft him either but he was elite this year and brought a lot of energy to the locker room too.

 

Ministry of Pain

Footballguy
Do you think Zac Taylor is a better coach than Mike McCarthy? Even Mike won a Superbowl (and a bunch of division titles) because Aaron Rodgers. I think when you have a QB like Burrow and a weakened division, it overcomes most coaching deficiencies. That said, whoever made the call to let Perine carry the ball on the last drive of the SB, instead of literally anyone else, should probably reevaluate themselves before next season. Mixon had a special season. I don't typically draft him either but he was elite this year and brought a lot of energy to the locker room too.
How many Super Bowls did McCarthy get to with Aaron Rodgers? He did win 1 so he's better than Zac Taylor right now...you've seen the Mike McCarthy tribute thread I have going? 

-You make my point on Mixon, if he's a stud then Taylor should have been fired for incompetence even with a SB trip under his belt. Too many great minds would love a shot to work with Burrow. We'll see how fast Burrow signs an extension next March/April, i know he loves Ohio but...

Perine on 3rd and 4th, Championship hanging in the balance, I don't understand. 

 

TwinTurbo

Footballguy
How many Super Bowls did McCarthy get to with Aaron Rodgers? He did win 1 so he's better than Zac Taylor right now...you've seen the Mike McCarthy tribute thread I have going? 

-You make my point on Mixon, if he's a stud then Taylor should have been fired for incompetence even with a SB trip under his belt. Too many great minds would love a shot to work with Burrow. We'll see how fast Burrow signs an extension next March/April, i know he loves Ohio but...

Perine on 3rd and 4th, Championship hanging in the balance, I don't understand. 
Yeah I'm 100% with you in the MM tribute thread. He should have made it to multiple Superbowls. That Packers loss vs Seahawks a few years back is one of the worst coached playoff games in history. Also Rodgers vs NFC North was like Brady vs AFC East over that time. Huge advantage. I do think Burrow can make it back if the Bengals can keep winning the AFC North. 

 

Bracie Smathers

Footballguy
Are Joe Burrow and the Bengals here to stay as a contender despite the 23-20 Super Bowl loss to the Rams?

If they can fix the O-Line and keep Burrow clean, then yeah.  Burrow is still under his rookie contract.  They have the playmakers.  The window is open, but they have to fix the O-Line.

What will it take for Burrow and Bengals to stay fantasy stars, return to Super Bowl?

... Step 1: Improve the offensive line

... One year ago the Kansas City Chiefs watched their franchise quarterback get harassed for 60 minutes to the point that all his heroics couldn’t move the needle against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. Brett Veach and Andy Reid vowed that would never happen again and aggressively went after fixing the line. The Chiefs traded a first-round pick for a veteran left tackle, signed the best guard on the market, spent a second-rounder on their new starting center and miraculously hit on their sixth-round pick in the form of their starting right guard.

It all worked. By the end of the 2021 season, the Chiefs’ line was a clear team strength after costing them a Super Bowl almost 12 months earlier. Pro Football Focus had them as the third-best run-blocking unit and sixth-best in pass protection.

------------------------

Rich Hribar@LordReebs

Burrow when kept clean on non-blitz dropbacks this season vs zone coverage (Rams 2nd in NFL in zone rate):

79.3% completions

8.7 Y/A

106.2 rating

Under pressure on those dropbacks:

55.9%

6.4 Y/A

76.3 rating

 

Ministry of Pain

Footballguy
Are Joe Burrow and the Bengals here to stay as a contender despite the 23-20 Super Bowl loss to the Rams?

If they can fix the O-Line and keep Burrow clean, then yeah.  Burrow is still under his rookie contract.  They have the playmakers.  The window is open, but they have to fix the O-Line.

What will it take for Burrow and Bengals to stay fantasy stars, return to Super Bowl?

... Step 1: Improve the offensive line

... One year ago the Kansas City Chiefs watched their franchise quarterback get harassed for 60 minutes to the point that all his heroics couldn’t move the needle against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. Brett Veach and Andy Reid vowed that would never happen again and aggressively went after fixing the line. The Chiefs traded a first-round pick for a veteran left tackle, signed the best guard on the market, spent a second-rounder on their new starting center and miraculously hit on their sixth-round pick in the form of their starting right guard.

It all worked. By the end of the 2021 season, the Chiefs’ line was a clear team strength after costing them a Super Bowl almost 12 months earlier. Pro Football Focus had them as the third-best run-blocking unit and sixth-best in pass protection.

------------------------

Rich Hribar@LordReebs

Burrow when kept clean on non-blitz dropbacks this season vs zone coverage (Rams 2nd in NFL in zone rate):

79.3% completions

8.7 Y/A

106.2 rating

Under pressure on those dropbacks:

55.9%

6.4 Y/A

76.3 rating
Draft 2021

Miami Pick #47 Liam Eichenberg (80th/83-PFF) Miami traded up to get him with the 47th pick overall. 

-Meanwhile KC Pick #62 takes Creed Humphrey (#1 Overall out of 39 Centers-PFF) 15 picks later and Miami was starving for help at all their OL positions and anchoring a Center would have been ideal. The rookie is currently ranked #1 in the NFL, should have gone to the Pro Bowl. 

:lmao:   Another great Chris Grier(Miami GM) misstep. Now I will say that I watched Liam throughout the season and I have a funny feeling he turns that ranking around quickly with the new coaching staff but that's not going to be a popular opinion with such a horrific rookie season. I think the OL as a whole was bringing him down so to be fair I would like to see what he can do in '22 but Creed Humphrey was a Home Run for the Chiefs, wish Miami would stop whiffing on OL. 

Great post btw

 

tangfoot

Living Slackmaster
They should be division favorites for the next 2 years at least.  Unless you think Lamar Jackson is elite as a NFL QB vs fantasy QB.  I don't.


He doesn't have to be elite, he has a front office/owner/coach that are significantly better than what Cincy has.  It's going to be those two teams vying for the NFC North title for the next few years unless Pittsburgh somehow pulls a QB out of their ####.

 

Bracie Smathers

Footballguy
He doesn't have to be elite, he has a front office/owner/coach that are significantly better than what Cincy has.  It's going to be those two teams vying for the NFC North title for the next few years unless Pittsburgh somehow pulls a QB out of their ####.
Well, if Cinci and Baltimore are competing in the NFC North then that leaves it open for Cleveland.😉

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

𝙕𝙖𝙘𝙝🦦@NewEraZach_·Feb 19Times Sacked: 

Lamar Jackson- 128 sacks in 62 games (58 reg, 4 post) 

Joe Burrow- 102 sacks in 30 games 
(26 reg, 4 post)

 

Anarchy99

Footballguy
They should be division favorites for the next 2 years at least.  Unless you think Lamar Jackson is elite as a NFL QB vs fantasy QB.  I don't.
The Ravens with Lamar starting are 37-12 in the regular season. This past season, their RB corps got decimated with injuries . . . 25 guys went on IR, including something like 13 by Week 2. They had Andrew and Brown and no one else as receiving options. They were 8-3 and in contention for the #1 seed in the AFC when the wheels came off. I don't think Lamar is an elite QB, but that doesn't change that the Ravens have been a very good regular season team. If the team is healthy, they should be an 11-or 12-win team again . . . more if they find another receiving option and hit on a couple of draft picks. 

 

Buckna

RMT Beta Tester
Anyway…

Road got a lot tougher the past month on paper at least. Oakland upgraded in weapons and D’line, Denver & Cleveland majorly upgraded at QB, Chargers upgraded their defense, Indy upgraded at QB, Tenn added some receiving weapons, Miami has upgraded their o’line and added Hill, Buffalo is still Buffalo, KC is the only one taking a step back it seems but gotta think will still be in it with Mahomes and Reid. Add in the Patriots and a healthy Ravens and your looking at like 12 good teams vying for 7 playoff spots.

 
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Hot Sauce Guy

Footballguy
Yes. They improved their OL, which will help the entire offense, which was already really good. They have arguably the best 1-2 punch at WR in the NFL & Burrow is only going to improve with age/experience.

Dunno If they get back to the SB, but the Browns shouldn’t be too tough in 2022 (suspension pending of course) and I don’t expect much from the Trubisky Steelers either.

I like their chances at 4-2 in their division, so their task is made a little easier to get enough wins outside the division. 

 

Ministry of Pain

Footballguy
Anyway…

Road got a lot tougher the past month on paper at least. Oakland upgraded in weapons and D’line, Denver & Cleveland majorly upgraded at QB, Chargers upgraded their defense, Indy upgraded at QB, Tenn added some receiving weapons, Miami has upgraded their o’line and added Hill, Buffalo is still Buffalo, KC is the only one taking a step back it seems but gotta think will still be in it with Mahomes and Reid. Add in the Patriots and a healthy Ravens and your looking at like 12 good teams vying for 7 playoff spots.
Cinci rebuilt or upgraded how many starters on the OL? They have Draft picks as well, this year is deep on 2nd day Linemen on both sides, good time or them to load up on future OL starters. Keep Burrow upright and you have a fighting chance. 

 

Caesar

Footballguy
I say no for many reasons. 

-1st of all they need a lot of work despite the narrow loss. Their OL is leaky at best, they got Burrow killed Year 1 and they almost got him knocked out of the Super Bowl, he was never right after that injury where he cried out in pain on the replay. 

-They needed Lamar Jackson and Baker Mayfield injured and a decomposing Ben Roethlisberger, Cleveland has a much better Defense than CIncinatti and OL, Steelers are better on Defense, Baltimore might be better everywhere except at downfield passing at the QB position. I'm not sure Cincinnati can even win the AFC North in 2022. 

-How about Zac Taylor? The man should be FIRED!!! How do you not have the ball in Mixon's hands late on 3rd and 1, 4th and 1/2 a yard?  This is as egregious as Marshawn Lynch not getting the ball late in the Super Bowl with Seattle and New England where Wilson showed his true colors and throws the interception. Taylor should be fired and will continue to do poorly, he only needs to make the Playoffs and lose 1st round about 4-5 times in the next 15-20 years and he'll be just fine if Marvin Lewis was any measure of how the owner and front office treat their head coaches. 

-Brown is one of the worst owners in the league and much like Dolphins owner-Stephen Ross, Bengals tend not to change their stripes and I don't think Brown will have an epiphany. Taylor and Brown at the front of the ship steering things will be the unraveling of this team and eventually Joe Burrow wanting his way out of Cincinnati but I hope I am wrong for Burrow's sake. 

What say you?
on the eve of the NFL draft, I am ready to address this.  MoP accused me of dropping a stinker and leaving, and he is 100% right.  I did, and it was my intention to do so.  I have several issues with the topic which I now finally have time to outline.

To start, I will say that I was not even in the slightest bit bitter about the super bowl loss.  I was disappointed THAT they lost, but I was very happy with the Bengals being there and they way they played.  I had a nice group of people over and my wife watched an entire football game for the first time in her life.  They impressed me with their grit, and I really thought they had a good chance to win as the clock wound down to zero.  

     1.  In just over half a day, MoP decided to start a new thread, it appeared, with the sole intention of soft bashing the team that literally barely lost.  

          a.  There is a big difference between being in contention and getting back to the super bowl.  It is not easy to get there, and the AFC is stacked with talent.  The Bengals might not make it back in the next 5 years, but to say at that time, about 14 hours after losing the super bowl, that they wouldn't be in contention is just bashing, imo.

          b.  There was already a Super Bowl thread, a Bengals thread, and Joe Burrow thread, and multiple other places where this could be addressed.  But those just wouldn't garner the same attention as a new thread with a "hot take".  

          c.  He misspelled Cincinnati.  rookie move.

     2.  He complained about the Bengals O-line being bad.  There are several problems with that point.

          a.  They made the SB with THAT O-line.  They played very well for a good part of the game, and they still almost won in the final seconds.

          b.  He made an assumption they would not address that deficiency.  We now know they have, and it should be an improvement in 2022.  Most people tend to agree that giving Burrow another .5 to 1 sec on that second down (maybe it was third) sack, and Chase was wide open.  Nobody would have caught him, and the Bengals likely win.  So, you can argue they lost the SB because of the O-line, but to assume it would be the same 5 starting 2022 is faulty at best. 

          c.  As good as Burrow can be, he made some errors in the game.  At times, he had time and took bad sacks.  Knowing the O-line was what it was, for a game that late in the season, his internal clock was off for about 4 drives in the third and fourth quarters.  It wasn't ALL the O-line.  

     3.  He essentially stated that the only reason the Bengals were even in the Super Bowl, much less the playoffs, is because the other teams in the division had issues.  But those issues remained, and it wasn't like the Ravens, Browns, or Steelers (at that time) had done anything to change that fact.  

          a.  And if rats had wings, they would be birds.  What's your point?

          b.  (placeholder for the outline nazis)

     4.  Oh goody!  We get to blame the coach for making a bad call.  

          a.  He can't learn?  He can't be under pressure?  Let's ask the WINNING SB coach how his first SB went.  Give me a break.  Whether people agree with the call or not, Perrine had done some good things and he had a chance.  Does Mixon make the line to gain?  I don't know.  I get that you want your best on the field.  Maybe he overthought it.  Maybe he was trying to catch them off guard.  You can spin this however, but to say they won't CONTEND going forward because he made a bad call is ludicrous.

          b.  Taylor said it all year they wanted to go out there and take the win.  They weren't going to wait for it to be handed to them.  I think he did that for most of the game.  I think his failure was in that 3rd/4th quarter where he got cute.  Again, its something to learn from.  Taylor will be fine.  The players seem to love playing for him, and he seems to have set the highest standards the Bengals have seen in a long time.

     5.  Ah, the ol' Mike Brown is a bad owner.  I particularly like the (Bengal) tigers don't change their stripes.... clever.

          a.  Mike Brown has been a historically bad owner.  Most NFL teams cycle through good and bad, and very few are consistently bad or consistently good.  The Bengals were one of the bad for a long time.  I can't say the culture has changed.  MB is older now and not quite as in control of everything.  Duke Tobin was named one of the top guys in the league (#7 if I remember right) over the past several years based on moves and drafts.  Times change.  A tiger may not change its stripes, but apparently it can get so old that its cubs start to show theirs.  I know, clever, right?

          b.  I think he genuinely got energized by the city for all the years of waiting for this to happen, and all the negative everything he has gotten for years, and I think he prefers the positive vibe from the fans and city.  I think it sticks.  I don't know MB, but I hear he is actually very relatable and a nice man.  Stubborn, absolutely!  I'd still take him over some other owners in the league, and I never thought I would say that 10 years ago.

And just to conclude, I also saw a lot of replies in a lot of different threads about the Bengals loss to the Jets last year.  If you were paying attention, that was the point when Taylor says he learned something about that team, and he was not going to make that mistake again.  He started to let Burrow do what he was capable of, and in that, the team grew into a contender and made it to the Super Bowl.  Do we think that the team is just going to forget all that?  The team was disparaged from the pre-season, and I can't think of a single person who had them on the radar for the super bowl.  And yet, they were there.  Not the mighty Chiefs, or the uber-talented Bills, but the Cincinnati Bengals.

They have a tough road to get back.  They have the talent to get there for sure.  They have the desire.  So I refute the opinion set forth by MoP so many months ago and I say bring on the 2022 NFL draft.  Let's get this party started.  Its going to be a great season for NFL fans.

 

Ministry of Pain

Footballguy
@Caesar

I might need a day or two to digest just like you needed a month or two to really formulate the post in the way you felt expressed yourself and I applaud you for a well thought out post. I disagree with several points much like you did on me however I will wait and would like to see their draft. 

Contender to me is a team that is thought of as a Super Bowl contender, that's what contender usually means to me. I'm not talking about them making the playoffs and losing in the 1st or 2nd round, I am talking about winning a Super Bowl, that's why they have a league. One thing the Patriots have taught us down here in Miami, you either are winning Super Bowls or your nobody for the most part. Patriots have been to so many i lost count in the last 20-21 years. 

"Playoff Contenders" would be so underwhelming for the Bengals and their fans after making the Super Bowl in Burrow's 2nd Season, very few ever achieve that mantle so early in their career. 

"Stay as a Contender"...to me the title screams Super Bowl. They were just coming off of it, the head coach laid an egg in the 2nd half and you wrote similar in your post, we're not that far off in evaluating the team quite frankly.  And I expanded it to coaching and front office/ownership since I don't doubt Joe Burrow and his abilities...and yet I don't see Cinci as a Super Bowl favorite going into 2022 🤷‍♂️

Cheers!

 

Caesar

Footballguy
@Caesar

I might need a day or two to digest just like you needed a month or two to really formulate the post in the way you felt expressed yourself and I applaud you for a well thought out post. I disagree with several points much like you did on me however I will wait and would like to see their draft. 

Contender to me is a team that is thought of as a Super Bowl contender, that's what contender usually means to me. I'm not talking about them making the playoffs and losing in the 1st or 2nd round, I am talking about winning a Super Bowl, that's why they have a league. One thing the Patriots have taught us down here in Miami, you either are winning Super Bowls or your nobody for the most part. Patriots have been to so many i lost count in the last 20-21 years. 

"Playoff Contenders" would be so underwhelming for the Bengals and their fans after making the Super Bowl in Burrow's 2nd Season, very few ever achieve that mantle so early in their career. 

"Stay as a Contender"...to me the title screams Super Bowl. They were just coming off of it, the head coach laid an egg in the 2nd half and you wrote similar in your post, we're not that far off in evaluating the team quite frankly.  And I expanded it to coaching and front office/ownership since I don't doubt Joe Burrow and his abilities...and yet I don't see Cinci as a Super Bowl favorite going into 2022 🤷‍♂️

Cheers!
I would agree that they are not a Super Bowl favorite.  To me, I am still amazed they made it there last year because they were not the best team in the AFC.  They probably won't be again, but I do think they are in the conversation of being able to make it back.  If they do make it there again, I  can see them being the favorite to win it this time.  

And now that you have defined how you see a contender, then the question becomes a lot more valid and I can see dissenting points as well.  But maybe it is hope, or maybe it is the fact that they completely blew out their projected path to get there.  Either way, I think the excitement and interest for the fan base is going to create an energy that has not been present in a while.  

There are so many good teams in the AFC... 10-11 deep.   There could be some very good teams left out of the playoffs this year.  

 

Ministry of Pain

Footballguy
They haven't gotten off to a good start
0-2 after losing to Pittsburgh on the last kick of overtime with Mitch Trubisky
Loss at Dallas wouldn't sting as much if they weren't starting Cooper Rush

What's Tua going to do to them in 10 days on Thursday Night Football?

I'm setting this u for a mighty fall after we get whacked by Buffalo next Sunday then board a plane for a Skyline Chili Cook Off in Ohio
 

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