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Are reparations becoming a reality? What are the board thoughts on this? (1 Viewer)

supermike80 said:
https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/11/us/georgetown-students-slavery-reparations-trnd/index.html

What I want to know is, why should everyone shoulder the burden for this?  If you are feeling guilty, or somehow at fault for slavery, why cant you just donate some of your own hard earned money to a fund to help rather than making everyone pay?
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That's kind of how I feel about Farm Subsidies and other forms of corporate welfare.  Billions and Billions and Billions. 

 
Sabertooth said:
That's kind of how I feel about Farm Subsidies and other forms of corporate welfare.  Billions and Billions and Billions. 
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Pretty much every single person in the world relies on farmers though.  I know farm subsidies are a bit of a mess but they are very important.

 
Sabertooth said:
I don't fully understand them.  Just seems like a problem capitalism would handle.  
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Farming is unlike most businesses.  There are a lot of unforeseeable things that can happy to farmers that can completely ruin them without any outside help.  They have no control over weather or the market yet it can destroy their business.  The world needs farmers for just about everything we have and do so it's very important to keep them going.

 
Sabertooth said:
But realistically aren’t farms basically run by corporations now? 
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That largest farms, yes.  There are still plenty of family farms and even the ones that are owned by large corporations are still operated by local families.  If all farms were run by corporations then I wouldn't be in business.

 
IMO, I think any straight "give every African-American in the country $20,000" type reparations scheme would be a mistake, cause way more bitterness, and pretty much solve nothing.  "Can we call it even now and never hear whining about this white privilege crap again?" The fine print on this would be a really gross way of sorting people out.  (How much Black-percentage? What about immigrants way after slavery and Jim Crow? Rich African-Americans?, etc etc etc)  Yuck.  I hate identity politics in general and this would turn that dial further up to 11.  

Now, there are ways to attack this inequality without the hugely divisive term of reparations. One example is a program Cory Booker had introduced in a baby bonds program.  https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/10/22/17999558/cory-booker-baby-bonds 

At first glance I like it because it attacks class more than overt race, but the affect is nearly the same.  It chips away at the inequality mean between white and black.  Now of course though, since this is primary silly season he made sure to hit the identity politics pandering dial when he's now calling it Senate Slavery Reparations Committee.  I truly believe this issue would be a huge liability once they get out to the general election. 

I'm really going to have to hold my nose through the Dem primary season on this.  Every candidate seems to be hitting this dial.

 
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Reparations will never becoming a reality. but it does make a good meme for Fox, Breitbart and right wing talk radio.

 
Slave.  Indian.  Women.  Homosexuals.

All have been damaged as a group at one point in time or another by US Government policy.  Establishing guilt, determining what fair compensation is, etc would be impossible.  A progressive tax system (which we have) is the best first step in helping the lower class, many of whom (but not all) are there to some extent because of these legacies.  Beyond that?  An unworkable waste of time that will do more harm than good.

Sometimes it really is better to just "let it go".

 
Private reparations from direct participants and their heirs to those directly affected, I think that's great.  Government reparations, I oppose.  Me and mine never owned slaves.  We were not of that economic class.  We actually arrived to these shores as indentured servants ourselves, not slaves, but certainly taken advantage of.  I do not care to pay for the sins of the fathers of others.

This is generally postured as a race matter, but it was an economic class matter as well.  Not all here of African decent came as slaves, and not all here of European Decent were slavers, actually it was a small minority.  Now I have heard the argument that all whites have reaped the harvest of the labor of slaves and I would counter that this is not proven to my satisfaction.  The fruits of my ancestors early labors went to benefit others as well.  The past is dead and gone.  it can teach us, it can caution us, but it should not, in my estimation, have a firm hold on us.  The idea of economic reparations is, in many ways,  insignificant and insufficient for what was done.  It will never compensate.  We will pay and pay and pay and never heal the past.  All we will do is perpetuate the matter further into the present.  Time to move on.  This will, of course, not happen as so many are invested in rehashing that time.  Life is not fair, it never was, and our efforts, well intentioned though they may be, or inciting for political gain though they may be, will not change that.

 
supermike80 said:
https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/11/us/georgetown-students-slavery-reparations-trnd/index.html

What I want to know is, why should everyone shoulder the burden for this?  If you are feeling guilty, or somehow at fault for slavery, why cant you just donate some of your own hard earned money to a fund to help rather than making everyone pay?
Click to expand...
Maybe..if so the immigrants from Ireland might want to get a piece of that pie as well. Though not slaves they were used and abused as well.

 
squistion said:
Meh, they can pay lip service to it all they want but it still will never happen and as noted at your link:
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I hope you're right.  But I gotta say then its really foolish for them to be talking it up and bringing it out to a platform level.  All the negatives talked about a lot above, with none of the positives of actually addressing any issues.

 
it's as much about slavery as it is the legacy of Jim Crow. millions of black americans were systemically deprived of things - wealth, housing, education, healthcare, etc - many take for granted today after the civil war ended. in my parents lifetime there was "separate but equal" - which was merely lipservice - to many. in my lifetime, there was hue and cry about integrated schools and busing kids to end segregation. there is a legitimacy to the reparations argument whether white americans choose to accept it or not. i don't know what the way forward should be but it's a discussion that should be held.

 
Joe Summer said:
My thoughts are that supermike is an eminence alias and should be put on ignore.
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I wont address these generally but since I've been accused of this before.

I will never and have never created an alias on any bulletin board.  I find absolutely no use in it and won't do it.

If some day the mods kick me off here, I promise you I will not be creating some new name so I can come back.  It's just not that critical to my life.

I use the same handle here as the right wing message board you all are familiar with.   100% transparent kids.

Now if you wanna put me on ignore, go for it.  I find that childish.....For me other people's points of views are just as relevant as mine, and hiding those views is contrary to the desire to learn something.

But--to each his own..this is still America after all. 

 
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Again....

I'd rather see the dem candidates that are pushing for this..Like Booker, Waters, Warren..Set up some sort of voluntary fund, instead of thinking about taking my money for something I had absolutely nothing to do with.  

Some will argue the government has the right to do whatever they want with my money..They do it with my taxes....and I can't argue the law on that.  However this is HUGELY polarizing and I see this as something that will hurt the dems in upcoming elections.

Course as I have said, the dem party is in utter shambles right now...So little chance anyone puts a muzzle on this idea anytime soon.  

 
Hawkeye21 said:
Farming is unlike most businesses.  There are a lot of unforeseeable things that can happy to farmers that can completely ruin them without any outside help.  They have no control over weather or the market yet it can destroy their business.  The world needs farmers for just about everything we have and do so it's very important to keep them going.
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The farming subsidies are to ensure that the US has a relatively self sufficient food supply in the event that other foreign sources become unavailable.  It's a risk reduction move that the govt. has enacted to be able to feed its populace. While most government initiatives are ill thought through this one is based on sound logic and is a good use of our tax monies. 

saintfool said:
it's as much about slavery as it is the legacy of Jim Crow.  there is a legitimacy to the reparations argument whether white americans choose to accept it or not.
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Then confiscate the retirement account of 80+ year olds to pay for this.

I have not owned a slave.  I did not participate in Jim Crow.  My ancestors came over in the late 1800s.  I have never discriminated against anyone in my life - and I've hired plenty of people in my career.  If you ram this through you're saying that I, as an individual, are responsible for the actions of previous inhabitants of this country.  You're telling me I'm a racist who needs to pay to fix my sins of which I've never committed.  

We define ourselves as a society that cherishes the concept of presumption of innocence.  This goes directly counter to that.

 
Bernie got in trouble for saying he thinks just cutting a check isn't the answer. His take on reparations is that changing the policies that exacerbate the problems is the way to go. So economic policies and social safety net policies instead of a check. I have to agree.

 
Sabertooth said:
Pandering. 
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In other words, lying for votes.   AOC was out peddling this a few days ago.  Of course she is an advocate of using her magical money printing machine to buy everything.   Just give everyone paper and all the world's  problems are solved 

 
jon_mx said:
In other words, lying for votes.   AOC was out peddling this a few days ago.  Of course she is an advocate of using her magical money printing machine to buy everything.   Just give everyone paper and all the world's  problems are solved 
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She doesn’t need cash.  She has a donation slush fund.

 
supermike80 said:
https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/11/us/georgetown-students-slavery-reparations-trnd/index.html

What I want to know is, why should everyone shoulder the burden for this?  If you are feeling guilty, or somehow at fault for slavery, why cant you just donate some of your own hard earned money to a fund to help rather than making everyone pay?
Click to expand...
I know you're a big believer in directly answering your questions and not veering off.

1) Nobody is shouldering the burden for this. It's a student council referendum that hasn't even been approved by Georgetown yet. Even if it does approve, I feel private entities can impose whatever fees they want and spend the money however they wish.

2) I'm sure you can find several charitable organizations to donate to if you wish.

 
BroadwayG said:
I know you're a big believer in directly answering your questions and not veering off.

1) Nobody is shouldering the burden for this. It's a student council referendum that hasn't even been approved by Georgetown yet. Even if it does approve, I feel private entities can impose whatever fees they want and spend the money however they wish.

2) I'm sure you can find several charitable organizations to donate to if you wish.
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1) Everyone who attends Georgetown would pay this fee whether they want to or not.  So you're wrong

2) Name me one charitable organization that's reparations related.  I have never heard of one.

 
supermike80 said:
1) Everyone who attends Georgetown would pay this fee whether they want to or not.  So you're wrong

2) Name me one charitable organization that's reparations related.  I have never heard of one.
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You didn't say 'everyone who attends Georgetown.' You said 'everyone'. So you're wrong. I don't want to assume anything about what you're thinking so I can only take your exact words.

Again, you didn't specifically say reparations related charitable organizations, you just said 'fund'

 
BroadwayG said:
You didn't say 'everyone who attends Georgetown.' You said 'everyone'. So you're wrong. I don't want to assume anything about what you're thinking so I can only take your exact words.

Again, you didn't specifically say reparations related charitable organizations, you just said 'fund'
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Oh

 
Sand said:
It was assumed and obvious.  Don't play the semantics game - people here are smarter than that.
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I'm trying to respect mike's wishes that he makes very clear any time anyone assumes anything that is not directly in his posts.

 
supermike80 said:
1) Everyone who attends Georgetown would pay this fee whether they want to or not.  So you're wrong

2) Name me one charitable organization that's reparations related.  I have never heard of one.
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Capitalism: If you don't want to pay $27, don't go to Georgetown. 

 
If I spent all my time listening to conservatives, I would come away convinced that liberals want reparations, forced seizure of all firearms, completely open borders, an end to capitalism, sex changes on demand, abortion up to full term pregnancy on demand, an end to the military, free education for everybody through graduate school, free healthcare for everyone, an end to air travel, cradle to grave socialism, and all of it paid for by taxing the hell out of small businesses and the middle classes. 

On the other hand, if I spent all my time listening to liberals, I would come away convinced that conservatives want to reverse all civil rights, all gay rights, are out to pollute the planet, cut all social programs, destroy Social Security and Medicare, poison our water, and install a theocracy similar to the Handmaid’s Tale. 

We all know why they do this. Elections are won by painting the other side as too extreme. More importantly it makes one feel good, more justified in one’s own beliefs- we don’t have to examine our own inherent contradictions if the other side is so “out there.” 

Nonetheless we’ve got to find a way to put a stop to this. It’s really hurting us as a nation; all of us.  

 
With the advances in genealogy it wouldn't be hard to find the descendants of slave owners and divy them up to African-Americans for a couple of generations. 

 
Sheriff Bart said:
With the advances in genealogy it wouldn't be hard to find the descendants of slave owners and divy them up to African-Americans for a couple of generations. 
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But then there would be an argument over who got the juiciest cuts of meat and who ended up with a stinky foot.

 
timschochet said:
If I spent all my time listening to conservatives, I would come away convinced that liberals want reparations, forced seizure of all firearms, completely open borders, an end to capitalism, sex changes on demand, abortion up to full term pregnancy on demand, an end to the military, free education for everybody through graduate school, free healthcare for everyone, an end to air travel, cradle to grave socialism, and all of it paid for by taxing the hell out of small businesses and the middle classes. 

On the other hand, if I spent all my time listening to liberals, I would come away convinced that conservatives want to reverse all civil rights, all gay rights, are out to pollute the planet, cut all social programs, destroy Social Security and Medicare, poison our water, and install a theocracy similar to the Handmaid’s Tale. 

We all know why they do this. Elections are won by painting the other side as too extreme. More importantly it makes one feel good, more justified in one’s own beliefs- we don’t have to examine our own inherent contradictions if the other side is so “out there.” 

Nonetheless we’ve got to find a way to put a stop to this. It’s really hurting us as a nation; all of us.  
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Both siderism at it's best. You know the difference between those two things? Once is true and its evidenced by their actions. There was a hearing yesterday in Texas where they were pushing a law that could convict women of a death penalty crime for having an abortion. So spare me the both sides.

 
NCCommish said:
Both siderism at it's best. You know the difference between those two things? Once is true and its evidenced by their actions. There was a hearing yesterday in Texas where they were pushing a law that could convict women of a death penalty crime for having an abortion. So spare me the both sides.
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I agree with tim that there are extreme views on both sides and it doesn't hurt to acknowledge it even when its your team. (A pro-lifer could easily counter that we had one Dem governor talking coldly about a child born after an abortion being allowed to die and another being a bit distastefully giddy about a later term abortion bill he signed).  THAT SAID, there is clearly an abundance of disproportionate crazy on the right currently.  No doubt.

However, his overall point is weird in this thread.  Dem candidates are making reparations a real, live part of their primary campaign.  We can't talk about that idea in a thread?

 
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