Are Traditional College Degrees Becoming Obsolete? (1 Viewer)

[chet]

By traditional, I am referring to liberal arts degrees that don't teach "required" knowledge for a career. I am not referring to science or engineering degrees which teach knowledge required for a career in that field.

 

[fantasycurse42]

I'm not sure what you're looking for here? Are you looking to here about a liberal arts degree being useless? Sure, they hold little value, curious where else you're going here?

 

[Evilgrin 72]

I think so. Most jobs these days ask for a degree or equivalent experience. Further, the vast majority want very specific training/experience with certain programs/servers/coding. Unless you're going into law, medicine, academia, or a few other fields, I think these days that college is more about learning to function on your own than it is about what you actually learn in class.

 

[Mister CIA]

Pretty sure that charging many 10's of thousands of dollars for knowledge that can be acquired for free is going to dry up, soon.

 

[mr roboto]

Pretty sure that charging many 10's of thousands of dollars for knowledge that can be acquired for free is going to dry up, soon.

Hint: they aren't charging for the knowledge - they are charging for the branded certification of the acquisition of knowledge.

 

[pollardsvision]

I think so. Most jobs these days ask for a degree or equivalent experience. Further, the vast majority want very specific training/experience with certain programs/servers/coding. Unless you're going into law, medicine, academia, or a few other fields, I think these days that college is more about learning to function on your own than it is about what you actually learn in class.

Even that benefit seems to be disappearing more and more.

 

[Mister CIA]

Pretty sure that charging many 10's of thousands of dollars for knowledge that can be acquired for free is going to dry up, soon.

Hint: they aren't charging for the knowledge - they are charging for the branded certification of the acquisition of knowledge.

Pretty sure a sea change is heading academia's way, as it should.

 

[Ladsud]

I heard theres a big movement to require womens studies to pay 75k.

 

[mr roboto]

Pretty sure that charging many 10's of thousands of dollars for knowledge that can be acquired for free is going to dry up, soon.

Hint: they aren't charging for the knowledge - they are charging for the branded certification of the acquisition of knowledge.

Pretty sure a sea change is heading academia's way, as it should.

Oh I absolutely agree with you. Just need to admit that there's still a ton perceived value in the 'Yale' or 'UCLA' or whatever degree. Otherwise the democratization of college degrees will be seen as a second rate movement.

 

[snogger]

I think so. Most jobs these days ask for a degree or equivalent experience. Further, the vast majority want very specific training/experience with certain programs/servers/coding. Unless you're going into law, medicine, academia, or a few other fields, I think these days that college is more about learning to function on your own than it is about what you actually learn in class.

Many tried to tell me early on, and some on this board still claim it, that it will be difficult to move up in a company with just an Associate Degree...

At least In the IT field that is a bunch of

After 5 years on the job after college, based on my experience, I was offered a Management position.. Since that time I've been offered other Management type positions but have turned them all down due to lack of interest of managing others..

I see many job listings that have "required- Bachelor degree..." but after that they will have a "Or X amount of years of experience" line..

As you said some areas will always require the "Full Degree".. Doctors, Law, Teacher, etc..

But for many careers the bachelor degree, IMO, is wasted time and money.

 

[(HULK)]

Depends on the field.

And the school. Names like Harvard carry a lot of weight. Names like U of Phoenix often carry a negative association.

 

[roadkill1292]

I work at a small but financially thriving university and our president thinks that online instruction will be taking a big bite out of traditional structures in the future. Hands on instruction will be limited to those instances where it's necessary. The two big appeals of online are (1) price, obviously and (2) pace. The Southern New Hampshire model, as I understand it, lets the consumer move at whatever speed he wants to obtain core competencies.

 

[Tango]

Liberal Arts and that's it = waiting tables for too many. Liberal Arts undergrad + advanced specialty degree(s) is a fine model to get an education and often a job. The cost however...

 

[NutterButter]

I'd be more curious of the tactics others have used to steer their kids away from the perceived wasted degrees. My kids are certainly going to college and I'm preparing for pretty much anything financially, but we all know that doing well in certain schools with certain degrees in pretty much guaranteed success while everything else is more of a crap shoot.

 

[Quez]

I work at a small but financially thriving university and our president thinks that online instruction will be taking a big bite out of traditional structures in the future. Hands on instruction will be limited to those instances where it's necessary. The two big appeals of online are (1) price, obviously and (2) pace. The Southern New Hampshire model, as I understand it, lets the consumer move at whatever speed he wants to obtain core competencies.

The problem is with the private online university's & their predatorial loaning practices. The majority of the loans are government backed, and many of these universities are owned by the bankers like Goldman.

 

[Tango]

I work at a small but financially thriving university and our president thinks that online instruction will be taking a big bite out of traditional structures in the future. Hands on instruction will be limited to those instances where it's necessary. The two big appeals of online are (1) price, obviously and (2) pace. The Southern New Hampshire model, as I understand it, lets the consumer move at whatever speed he wants to obtain core competencies.

The problem is with the private online university's & their predatorial loaning practices. The majority of the loans are government backed, and many of these universities are owned by the bankers like Goldman.

There's nothing involuntary going on other than those bureaucrats who seemingly make unilateral policies that create the poor incentives for the actors.

It's not much different than the housing crisis.

Our federal government is in a unique position historically (for now at least) of being able to print money without consequence and thus provide guarantees that matter to lenders. The gov't can set rules for the game that create incentives that generate very good reasons for the loan writers to be aggressive. So there's a lot of bad loans written as a result-- for both the borrower (to your point) and the lender/guarantor. Ultimately, however, there need to be two voluntary signatures on the paper for a bad loan to be written.

 

[snogger]

I'd be more curious of the tactics others have used to steer their kids away from the perceived wasted degrees. My kids are certainly going to college and I'm preparing for pretty much anything financially, but we all know that doing well in certain schools with certain degrees in pretty much guaranteed success while everything else is more of a crap shoot.

Our daughter is a Junior in High School and is still trying to finalize what path she wants to follow but she needs to start making a decision soon..

Currently she's thinking Marketing/Advertising.. and for that we've been "steering" her towards the Local Technical Colleges where the credits would transfer to a University later if she decided to go for the bachelor degree.

For that career path the Local Technical College have Internships at local companies like 3M, Wells Fargo, etc.. as part of their curriculum. So she'd already have a foot in the door and without spending "boatloads of "

 

[NutterButter]

I'd be more curious of the tactics others have used to steer their kids away from the perceived wasted degrees. My kids are certainly going to college and I'm preparing for pretty much anything financially, but we all know that doing well in certain schools with certain degrees in pretty much guaranteed success while everything else is more of a crap shoot.

Our daughter is a Junior in High School and is still trying to finalize what path she wants to follow but she needs to start making a decision soon..

Currently she's thinking Marketing/Advertising.. and for that we've been "steering" her towards the Local Technical Colleges where the credits would transfer to a University later if she decided to go for the bachelor degree.

For that career path the Local Technical College have Internships at local companies like 3M, Wells Fargo, etc.. as part of their curriculum. So she'd already have a foot in the door and without spending "boatloads of "

What have you done to "steer" her? Any financials rewards such as if you go to this technical college for 2 years, we'll give you X amount?

 

[MAC_32]

I can only speak for the smallish school in which I work, but many of our Liberal Arts grads are because they didn't meet the qualifications for other degree programs. They had their sights set on something else, but didn't get the grades for the program so in order to complete their degree they had to choose that route. It's also a degree I believe the school is trying to get rid of, for obvious reasons. The primary discussion topic students have with career services before they leave involves them needing to pursue an advanced degree in a specialized field in order for the degree to be worthwhile. As Tango eluded to though - that cost...

 

[Fennis]

No

 

[NutterButter]

I can only speak for the smallish school in which I work, but many of our Liberal Arts grads are because they didn't meet the qualifications for other degree programs. They had their sights set on something else, but didn't get the grades for the program so in order to complete their degree they had to choose that route. It's also a degree I believe the school is trying to get rid of, for obvious reasons. The primary discussion topic students have with career services before they leave involves them needing to pursue an advanced degree in a specialized field in order for the degree to be worthwhile. As Tango eluded to though - that cost...

Hypothetically, if you got rid of liberal arts degrees, would you foresee more dropouts since there's no longer that fallback degree if kids can't make the grades in the non-liberal arts degree?

 

[snogger]

I'd be more curious of the tactics others have used to steer their kids away from the perceived wasted degrees. My kids are certainly going to college and I'm preparing for pretty much anything financially, but we all know that doing well in certain schools with certain degrees in pretty much guaranteed success while everything else is more of a crap shoot.

Our daughter is a Junior in High School and is still trying to finalize what path she wants to follow but she needs to start making a decision soon..

Currently she's thinking Marketing/Advertising.. and for that we've been "steering" her towards the Local Technical Colleges where the credits would transfer to a University later if she decided to go for the bachelor degree.

For that career path the Local Technical College have Internships at local companies like 3M, Wells Fargo, etc.. as part of their curriculum. So she'd already have a foot in the door and without spending "boatloads of "

What have you done to "steer" her? Any financials rewards such as if you go to this technical college for 2 years, we'll give you X amount?

No, nothing like that.. We have enough saved for her right now to pay for two years of tuition at a University if she so desires..

But for her career goals we've been meeting with her Guidance counselor as well as reviewing/visiting the Technical colleges to give her options..

Even though she is a Honor Society member, and has made the Honor Roll every semester since 6th grade( ), she has no interest in taking more "General" classes. If there is no interest then the chances of succeeding in those classes goes down and thus becomes a waste of money/time.

So far, for what she wants to do, a Technical college seems to be a better fit to start with.

 

[Chadstroma]

I'd be more curious of the tactics others have used to steer their kids away from the perceived wasted degrees. My kids are certainly going to college and I'm preparing for pretty much anything financially, but we all know that doing well in certain schools with certain degrees in pretty much guaranteed success while everything else is more of a crap shoot.

I am a ways off from this but I know that I don't like the idea of my kids just getting their education expenses handed to them but on the other hand, I don't want it to be too much of a struggle or burden to get through school or have a large debt loan after school.

So, my thinking has been offering something like this 1) "If you get into an elite school (Ivy league, Northwestern, UofChicago, Stanford, ND, etc) then I will pay for tuition" 2) "Otherwise, you will need to go to a junior college and get an associates degree first paid for you by you- then when you transfer to a 4 year school- I will pay tuition for the two years to get your bachelors" 3) "If you don't want to go to college but want to start a business- I will help with capital once you prepare a proper business plan"

I may refine this as I get closer to this reality and put more time and thought into it.

 

[AnonymousBob]

(2) pace. The Southern New Hampshire model, as I understand it, lets the consumer move at whatever speed he wants to obtain core competencies.

I don't understand why it isn't this way to begin with.

 

[the moops]

Our daughter is a Junior in High School and is still trying to finalize what path she wants to follow but she needs to start making a decision soon..

Jesus dude. She is in junior high and you think she needs to finalize her career path soon?

 

[AnonymousBob]

Our daughter is a Junior in High School and is still trying to finalize what path she wants to follow but she needs to start making a decision soon..

Jesus dude. She is in junior high and you think she needs to finalize her career path soon?

Guessing you're not an English major.

 

[roadkill1292]

(2) pace. The Southern New Hampshire model, as I understand it, lets the consumer move at whatever speed he wants to obtain core competencies.

I don't understand why it isn't this way to begin with.

Because, like with transportation and college athletic "amateurism," it takes time for revolution to reach critical mass and force gigantic institutional change. But I think we'll be alive to see massive changes in the educational structure of the U.S.

 

[the moops]

Our daughter is a Junior in High School and is still trying to finalize what path she wants to follow but she needs to start making a decision soon..

Jesus dude. She is in junior high and you think she needs to finalize her career path soon?

Guessing you're not an English major.

Sociology here

 

[Quez]

Our daughter is a Junior in High School and is still trying to finalize what path she wants to follow but she needs to start making a decision soon..

Jesus dude. She is in junior high and you think she needs to finalize her career path soon?

This is part of the problem. Kids these days are expected to pick what they want to do for the rest of their lives at 16-17.

 

[eoMMan]

Our daughter is a Junior in High School and is still trying to finalize what path she wants to follow but she needs to start making a decision soon..

Jesus dude. She is in junior high and you think she needs to finalize her career path soon?

This is part of the problem. Kids these days are expected to pick what they want to do for the rest of their lives at 16-17.

I agree for the most part but they should know at least where they are leaning as far as field goes (financial, medicine, etc.) before they head off to college.

It's much easier to switch from majoring in economics to accounting versus switching from economics to biology or pre-med.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Our daughter is a Junior in High School and is still trying to finalize what path she wants to follow but she needs to start making a decision soon..

Jesus dude. She is in junior high and you think she needs to finalize her career path soon?

This is part of the problem. Kids these days are expected to pick what they want to do for the rest of their lives at 16-17.

Which is really odd when you think about it. Most people change careers multiple times over the course of their lives. That simultaneously argues against hyper-specialization at a young age, and in favor of degree programs that develop general skills (i.e. liberal arts degrees).

 

[Loan Sharks]

Journalism is the worst.

 

[MAC_32]

I can only speak for the smallish school in which I work, but many of our Liberal Arts grads are because they didn't meet the qualifications for other degree programs. They had their sights set on something else, but didn't get the grades for the program so in order to complete their degree they had to choose that route. It's also a degree I believe the school is trying to get rid of, for obvious reasons. The primary discussion topic students have with career services before they leave involves them needing to pursue an advanced degree in a specialized field in order for the degree to be worthwhile. As Tango eluded to though - that cost...

Hypothetically, if you got rid of liberal arts degrees, would you foresee more dropouts since there's no longer that fallback degree if kids can't make the grades in the non-liberal arts degree?

Short version - yes, but.

Long version - without delving into specifics, it'd require a culture change administratively in order for this to be feasible. The reality of a smaller college that takes on a higher % of at-risk students is that we need to offer something for the below average student. The issue being - is a liberal arts degree the correct one? Conventional wisdom says given what these students are doing in their careers post grad - no, but what are we going to offer instead? Since we have a partnership with another small school that offers a MBA program I think the best option is General Business (we already have specialized business programs), or something along those lines. It isn't the best MBA program, not surprisingly, but I think it would open more doors post grad for students that fall within this bucket without paralyzing them financially like the current option does. I'm not alone in that thinking, but high leverage areas of the college are resisting primarily due to short term enrollment issues and it'd require re-branding. To be fair, both of which are dicey issues, financially speaking, for a small college. Our pres has not come out and said it, but based on what I know I believe he is for ridding of the Liberal Arts degree...conceptually, anyway. I have no idea what (if any) potential alternatives he thinks are viable though.

 

[mr roboto]

Our daughter is a Junior in High School and is still trying to finalize what path she wants to follow but she needs to start making a decision soon..

Jesus dude. She is in junior high and you think she needs to finalize her career path soon?

This is part of the problem. Kids these days are expected to pick what they want to do for the rest of their lives at 16-17.

No they aren't and you know it. 30 years ago maybe. But now there are so many people switching careers and industries it's not as deterministic. This is why I believe that unless a kid knows they want to going to a specific career field that requires a specific degree, like engineering or computer programming or science or technology, then they should look at getting the basic business or communications degree. At the very least those degrees can open you up to entry-level positions in many different fields amd many different corporations. From the relative comfort of an entry-level job at a company one can explore what they enjoy about the real world.

I know it's not most kids dream to be an account representative at the big insurance company or the assistant marketing manager at a medium sized local firm but honestly I would much rather have my kid walking into a job that paid a reasonable living wage than staring down the barrel of four more years of graduate work.

You have to get in the game before you realize what part of the game you like. I think we do our children a disservice by not admitting to them that their decision of major at 19 is not going to forever determine their career path.

 

[snogger]

Our daughter is a Junior in High School and is still trying to finalize what path she wants to follow but she needs to start making a decision soon..

Jesus dude. She is in junior high and you think she needs to finalize her career path soon?

You tell that to the schools.. They've been "pushing" her to start making a decision since last October...

Again, if she decided to go to a University then it really doesn't matter what career path she decides on since the first year and half is mainly General crap..

But since she has a general idea of what she wants to do, they are kind of "pushing" her to decide on whether a University is in the plans, and if so start visiting/applying by the end of this school year..

If a University isn't in her plans, then yea.. she has time..

 

[snogger]

Our daughter is a Junior in High School and is still trying to finalize what path she wants to follow but she needs to start making a decision soon..

Jesus dude. She is in junior high and you think she needs to finalize her career path soon?

This is part of the problem. Kids these days are expected to pick what they want to do for the rest of their lives at 16-17.

School has been pushing her since October of last year to start making up her mind so she can make a decision before the year is up

 

[Long Ball Larry]

Our daughter is a Junior in High School and is still trying to finalize what path she wants to follow but she needs to start making a decision soon..

Jesus dude. She is in junior high and you think she needs to finalize her career path soon?

This is part of the problem. Kids these days are expected to pick what they want to do for the rest of their lives at 16-17.

No they aren't and you know it. 30 years ago maybe. But now there are so many people switching careers and industries it's not as deterministic.This is why I believe that unless a kid knows they want to going to a specific career field that requires a specific degree, like engineering or computer programming or science or technology, then they should look at getting the basic business or communications degree. At the very least those degrees can open you up to entry-level positions in many different fields amd many different corporations. From the relative comfort of an entry-level job at a company one can explore what they enjoy about the real world.

I know it's not most kids dream to be an account representative at the big insurance company or the assistant marketing manager at a medium sized local firm but honestly I would much rather have my kid walking into a job that paid a reasonable living wage than staring down the barrel of four more years of graduate work.

You have to get in the game before you realize what part of the game you like. I think we do our children a disservice by not admitting to them that their decision of major at 19 is not going to forever determine their career path.

I agree with this. There are so many people I see who are smart in certain areas, but have no ability to organize their thoughts and communicate them. I have a B.S. in Psychology from a liberal arts school and don't do anything in that field. I think that having the training to really know how to write and organize information has put me far ahead. People who are in upper management don't have always time to make sense of all communications if they aren't clear. Being able to provide a concise, cogent description of a situation, along with a reasonable recommendation is highly valued, at least in my experience, because it is one less decision that upper-level managers have to make.

 

[Politician Spock]

(2) pace. The Southern New Hampshire model, as I understand it, lets the consumer move at whatever speed he wants to obtain core competencies.

I don't understand why it isn't this way to begin with.

Because students who take 10 classes a year spend more per year than students who take 5 classes a year. Requiring students to take a certain number of classes produces more revenue than not requiring a minimum. It's about money. It's always about money.

 

[NutterButter]

I'd be more curious of the tactics others have used to steer their kids away from the perceived wasted degrees. My kids are certainly going to college and I'm preparing for pretty much anything financially, but we all know that doing well in certain schools with certain degrees in pretty much guaranteed success while everything else is more of a crap shoot.

I am a ways off from this but I know that I don't like the idea of my kids just getting their education expenses handed to them but on the other hand, I don't want it to be too much of a struggle or burden to get through school or have a large debt loan after school.

So, my thinking has been offering something like this 1) "If you get into an elite school (Ivy league, Northwestern, UofChicago, Stanford, ND, etc) then I will pay for tuition" 2) "Otherwise, you will need to go to a junior college and get an associates degree first paid for you by you- then when you transfer to a 4 year school- I will pay tuition for the two years to get your bachelors" 3) "If you don't want to go to college but want to start a business- I will help with capital once you prepare a proper business plan"

I may refine this as I get closer to this reality and put more time and thought into it.

As far as #1, I thought the concern in this thread at least was the degree they choose. Is it not worse that they get into an elite school that costs a fortune and then choose a dead end major as opposed to going to a state school where the cost isn't too bad? I have no problem saying no to paying to some overpriced private liberal arts college.

As far as those options in general, at what age do you let your kid know about them? Do you plan on using it as a motivation tactic? What if your kid really worked his/her butt off, but still only got into some lesser tier schools? Would you at least pay for junior college then?

 

[MAC_32]

I'd be more curious of the tactics others have used to steer their kids away from the perceived wasted degrees. My kids are certainly going to college and I'm preparing for pretty much anything financially, but we all know that doing well in certain schools with certain degrees in pretty much guaranteed success while everything else is more of a crap shoot.

I am a ways off from this but I know that I don't like the idea of my kids just getting their education expenses handed to them but on the other hand, I don't want it to be too much of a struggle or burden to get through school or have a large debt loan after school.

So, my thinking has been offering something like this 1) "If you get into an elite school (Ivy league, Northwestern, UofChicago, Stanford, ND, etc) then I will pay for tuition" 2) "Otherwise, you will need to go to a junior college and get an associates degree first paid for you by you- then when you transfer to a 4 year school- I will pay tuition for the two years to get your bachelors" 3) "If you don't want to go to college but want to start a business- I will help with capital once you prepare a proper business plan"

I may refine this as I get closer to this reality and put more time and thought into it.

As far as #1, I thought the concern in this thread at least was the degree they choose. Is it not worse that they get into an elite school that costs a fortune and then choose a dead end major as opposed to going to a state school where the cost isn't too bad? I have no problem saying no to paying to some overpriced private liberal arts college.

As far as those options in general, at what age do you let your kid know about them? Do you plan on using it as a motivation tactic? What if your kid really worked his/her butt off, but still only got into some lesser tier schools? Would you at least pay for junior college then?

In stages. There are exceptions, but beginning the process before Jr. High is probably a bad idea. So would waiting until after Sophomore (Freshman?) year of High School. Opening things up sometime in that window would be wise, but how, what, and when depends situation to situation. If you have an unmotivated kid then even mentioning a school like Northwestern is probably a waste of time. If you have a book smart kid that lacks street smarts then uttering the words 'start a business' would probably be the same.

 

[E Street Brat]

Our daughter is a Junior in High School

 

[cstu]

Pretty sure that charging many 10's of thousands of dollars for knowledge that can be acquired for free is going to dry up, soon.

Hint: they aren't charging for the knowledge - they are charging for the branded certification of the acquisition of knowledge.

Pretty sure a sea change is heading academia's way, as it should.

Are you suggesting a degree that you can earn by testing out of all of the classes? I think it's a great idea if you can eliminate cheating.

 

[cstu]

(2) pace. The Southern New Hampshire model, as I understand it, lets the consumer move at whatever speed he wants to obtain core competencies.

I don't understand why it isn't this way to begin with.

Because students who take 10 classes a year spend more per year than students who take 5 classes a year. Requiring students to take a certain number of classes produces more revenue than not requiring a minimum. It's about money. It's always about money.

I'm pretty sure my college wasn't happy that I milked 8 years out of a 4 year degree.

 

[cstu]

I agree with this. There are so many people I see who are smart in certain areas, but have no ability to organize their thoughts and communicate them. I have a B.S. in Psychology from a liberal arts school and don't do anything in that field. I think that having the training to really know how to write and organize information has put me far ahead. People who are in upper management don't have always time to make sense of all communications if they aren't clear. Being able to provide a concise, cogent description of a situation, along with a reasonable recommendation is highly valued, at least in my experience, because it is one less decision that upper-level managers have to make.

Not enough credit is given to liberal arts and social sciences degrees. Business writing is a very useful skill that most people do not have.

 

[cstu]

No they aren't and you know it. 30 years ago maybe. But now there are so many people switching careers and industries it's not as deterministic.

This is why I believe that unless a kid knows they want to going to a specific career field that requires a specific degree, like engineering or computer programming or science or technology, then they should look at getting the basic business or communications degree. At the very least those degrees can open you up to entry-level positions in many different fields amd many different corporations. From the relative comfort of an entry-level job at a company one can explore what they enjoy about the real world.

I know it's not most kids dream to be an account representative at the big insurance company or the assistant marketing manager at a medium sized local firm but honestly I would much rather have my kid walking into a job that paid a reasonable living wage than staring down the barrel of four more years of graduate work.

You have to get in the game before you realize what part of the game you like. I think we do our children a disservice by not admitting to them that their decision of major at 19 is not going to forever determine their career path.

I loved being in school though. In hindsight I should have continued and got a Ph.D.

 

[Chadstroma]

I'd be more curious of the tactics others have used to steer their kids away from the perceived wasted degrees. My kids are certainly going to college and I'm preparing for pretty much anything financially, but we all know that doing well in certain schools with certain degrees in pretty much guaranteed success while everything else is more of a crap shoot.

I am a ways off from this but I know that I don't like the idea of my kids just getting their education expenses handed to them but on the other hand, I don't want it to be too much of a struggle or burden to get through school or have a large debt loan after school.

So, my thinking has been offering something like this 1) "If you get into an elite school (Ivy league, Northwestern, UofChicago, Stanford, ND, etc) then I will pay for tuition" 2) "Otherwise, you will need to go to a junior college and get an associates degree first paid for you by you- then when you transfer to a 4 year school- I will pay tuition for the two years to get your bachelors" 3) "If you don't want to go to college but want to start a business- I will help with capital once you prepare a proper business plan"

I may refine this as I get closer to this reality and put more time and thought into it.

As far as #1, I thought the concern in this thread at least was the degree they choose. Is it not worse that they get into an elite school that costs a fortune and then choose a dead end major as opposed to going to a state school where the cost isn't too bad? I have no problem saying no to paying to some overpriced private liberal arts college.

As far as those options in general, at what age do you let your kid know about them? Do you plan on using it as a motivation tactic? What if your kid really worked his/her butt off, but still only got into some lesser tier schools? Would you at least pay for junior college then?

For me, I plan on giving my kids the wheel on what they choose but offer my advice and help them think through their options in conversation but if one of my kids wants a degree in Art History because that is what they really love... I won't pull my support from them. I will just do my best to help them convert that into something worthwhile as much as possible.

I plan on really having these type of conversations starting in Jr High. For me, I was never a model student but looking back that is when things really started to matter and by the time I was in 11th grade it seemed pointless to finish (I dropped out of HS- later getting my bachelors degree and more than half on a masters that I have been unable to finish due to money/time issues). I envision it more of kind of helping them plan out what they think they want to do and how I will help them meet that. It is a kind of incentive in "hey, work hard and get into UofChicago and I will pay for you" but not exactly a pressure cooker situation in that they have no options. Another thing that I learned was that I felt pretty hopeless. I hated school and didn't do well and all I ever heard was that if I didn't go to college I would never make any money. I knew I could not get into a decent college with my grades... so.. why try? Also, I knew we had no money so I felt like unless I got a basketball scholarship I could never pay for it anyways and after my knee went bad in 9th grade, that was not an option.

Junior college tuition is really cheap relatively to what is available. I feel like I want them to pay for that. I will be helping out in other ways as long as they are home but it is kind of a token- earn it. Either you earned getting into an elite school or you earn getting a 4 year degree by helping pay your way. I have known a lot of friends that I treated college as one big last party on the parents dime. I don't want to be that parent... not so for me but how I think it impacts their growth as a person.

 

[lod01]

Our daughter is a Junior in High School and is still trying to finalize what path she wants to follow but she needs to start making a decision soon..

Jesus dude. She is in junior high and you think she needs to finalize her career path soon?

Easy. Better than the ever increasing, mouth breathing, losers in high school that have no ambition, don't even want to work and think everything should be given to them.

 

[cstu]

For me, I plan on giving my kids the wheel on what they choose but offer my advice and help them think through their options in conversation but if one of my kids wants a degree in Art History because that is what they really love... I won't pull my support from them. I will just do my best to help them convert that into something worthwhile as much as possible.

I plan on really having these type of conversations starting in Jr High. For me, I was never a model student but looking back that is when things really started to matter and by the time I was in 11th grade it seemed pointless to finish (I dropped out of HS- later getting my bachelors degree and more than half on a masters that I have been unable to finish due to money/time issues). I envision it more of kind of helping them plan out what they think they want to do and how I will help them meet that. It is a kind of incentive in "hey, work hard and get into UofChicago and I will pay for you" but not exactly a pressure cooker situation in that they have no options. Another thing that I learned was that I felt pretty hopeless. I hated school and didn't do well and all I ever heard was that if I didn't go to college I would never make any money. I knew I could not get into a decent college with my grades... so.. why try? Also, I knew we had no money so I felt like unless I got a basketball scholarship I could never pay for it anyways and after my knee went bad in 9th grade, that was not an option.



Junior college tuition is really cheap relatively to what is available. I feel like I want them to pay for that. I will be helping out in other ways as long as they are home but it is kind of a token- earn it. Either you earned getting into an elite school or you earn getting a 4 year degree by helping pay your way. I have known a lot of friends that I treated college as one big last party on the parents dime. I don't want to be that parent... not so for me but how I think it impacts their growth as a person.

Does that mean student loans or do you expect them to earn the money while they are in school?

 

[jonessed]

I agree with this. There are so many people I see who are smart in certain areas, but have no ability to organize their thoughts and communicate them. I have a B.S. in Psychology from a liberal arts school and don't do anything in that field. I think that having the training to really know how to write and organize information has put me far ahead. People who are in upper management don't have always time to make sense of all communications if they aren't clear. Being able to provide a concise, cogent description of a situation, along with a reasonable recommendation is highly valued, at least in my experience, because it is one less decision that upper-level managers have to make.

Not enough credit is given to liberal arts and social sciences degrees. Business writing is a very useful skill that most people do not have.

It is, but you don't need a liberal arts degree to be a good writer. You can add writing classes to a variety of degrees to give them breadth.

My college had a writing requirement to graduate. I know a lot of people who had to take extra classes to pass it.

 

[NutterButter]

I'd be more curious of the tactics others have used to steer their kids away from the perceived wasted degrees. My kids are certainly going to college and I'm preparing for pretty much anything financially, but we all know that doing well in certain schools with certain degrees in pretty much guaranteed success while everything else is more of a crap shoot.

I am a ways off from this but I know that I don't like the idea of my kids just getting their education expenses handed to them but on the other hand, I don't want it to be too much of a struggle or burden to get through school or have a large debt loan after school.

So, my thinking has been offering something like this 1) "If you get into an elite school (Ivy league, Northwestern, UofChicago, Stanford, ND, etc) then I will pay for tuition" 2) "Otherwise, you will need to go to a junior college and get an associates degree first paid for you by you- then when you transfer to a 4 year school- I will pay tuition for the two years to get your bachelors" 3) "If you don't want to go to college but want to start a business- I will help with capital once you prepare a proper business plan"

I may refine this as I get closer to this reality and put more time and thought into it.

As far as #1, I thought the concern in this thread at least was the degree they choose. Is it not worse that they get into an elite school that costs a fortune and then choose a dead end major as opposed to going to a state school where the cost isn't too bad? I have no problem saying no to paying to some overpriced private liberal arts college.

As far as those options in general, at what age do you let your kid know about them? Do you plan on using it as a motivation tactic? What if your kid really worked his/her butt off, but still only got into some lesser tier schools? Would you at least pay for junior college then?

For me, I plan on giving my kids the wheel on what they choose but offer my advice and help them think through their options in conversation but if one of my kids wants a degree in Art History because that is what they really love... I won't pull my support from them. I will just do my best to help them convert that into something worthwhile as much as possible.

I plan on really having these type of conversations starting in Jr High. For me, I was never a model student but looking back that is when things really started to matter and by the time I was in 11th grade it seemed pointless to finish (I dropped out of HS- later getting my bachelors degree and more than half on a masters that I have been unable to finish due to money/time issues). I envision it more of kind of helping them plan out what they think they want to do and how I will help them meet that. It is a kind of incentive in "hey, work hard and get into UofChicago and I will pay for you" but not exactly a pressure cooker situation in that they have no options. Another thing that I learned was that I felt pretty hopeless. I hated school and didn't do well and all I ever heard was that if I didn't go to college I would never make any money. I knew I could not get into a decent college with my grades... so.. why try? Also, I knew we had no money so I felt like unless I got a basketball scholarship I could never pay for it anyways and after my knee went bad in 9th grade, that was not an option.

Junior college tuition is really cheap relatively to what is available. I feel like I want them to pay for that. I will be helping out in other ways as long as they are home but it is kind of a token- earn it. Either you earned getting into an elite school or you earn getting a 4 year degree by helping pay your way. I have known a lot of friends that I treated college as one big last party on the parents dime. I don't want to be that parent... not so for me but how I think it impacts their growth as a person.

I'm going to have a really hard time with that. I have no problem making the sacrifices to spend 50k/yr for them to go to an elite school, but not for them to become a kindergarten teacher; they can go to a state school for that.

ETA: There's nothing wrong with wanting to be a kindergarten teacher, but I'd much rather save a bunch of money on school and use that instead to help them make a down payment on a house. Its more the misuse of money that would really bother me.