*** ARI QB Thread *** (1 Viewer)

[MKB4®]

Cards might bench QB Warner

Written by: Kent Somers ¦ 9/25/2006

Source: www.azcentral.com

Cardinals coach Dennis Green on Monday left open the possibility of benching quarterback Kurt Warner and starting rookie Matt Leinart Sunday in Atlanta.

"I've not thought about who the starting players are right now," Green said. "Normally, personnel is something we do on Tuesday." Warner played a part in four turnovers in the team's 16-14 loss to St. Louis Sunday, including a fumble at the Rams 18 with 1:41 remaining. The Cardinals were positioning themselves for a field goal attempt that might have won the game.

Warner also had three passes intercepted, including one in the Rams end zone and one at their 6-yard line.

Green declined to talk about the quarterback situation in detail, saying "I don't talk personnel on Monday. We'll start looking at things. We'll have a staff meeting and take if from there."

The Cardinals signed Warner to a three-year contract this year off-season and drafted Leinart with the 10th overall pick last April. The plan was for Warner to start every game this year, with Leinart spending the year watching and learning.

Warner started the season quickly, passing for 301 yards and three touchdowns in the victory over San Francisco in the season opener. He was named NFC offensive player of the week.

But he's struggled the past two games, both losses. The Cardinals scored 10 points last week at Seattle, a game in which Warner was sacked five times and fumbled on four occasions, losing one of them.

Warner has now fumbled eight times this year, and lost three of them. In pre-game warm-ups Sunday, two snaps to Warner from center Alex Stepanovich ended up on the ground.

"The ball shouldn't hit the ground in pre-game," Green said. "There shouldn't be a pass that goes on the ground. There is no defense, and when there is no defense you should be 100 percent perfect."

http://www.azcentral.com/

 

[gman8343]

So Leinart & Young could both be starting soon, wow.

 

[Couch Potato]

"The ball shouldn't hit the ground in pre-game," Green said. "There shouldn't be a pass that goes on the ground. There is no defense, and when there is no defense you should be 100 percent perfect."

http://www.azcentral.com/

Denny is great at pontificating what should and shouldn't happen, but I've yet to hear him take blame for the play calling, like giving Warner a chance to throw his end zone interception on 3rd and goal from the one. That's why they spent a fortune for James, to jam it in there. Still, there's no excuse for Warner's constant mistakes. He certainly lost this game.

 

[Ilov80s]

We have seen what Warner is capable of over the last 4 years and it isn't much. He is not going to win games. Matt Leinhart is a winner and has a pedigree at QB to rival any player in the history of the NCAA. They need to seriously consider a change.

 

[Bob Henry]

I watched most of that game myself and thought Warner was simply awful... but it's hard to expect Leinart to do much better as a rookie. The Cards are probably better off running with Warner for a while longer until they are doomed to another non-playoff season, then run with the rookie.

 

[John Mamula]

I was at the game and 2 of Warner's 3 picks (the two in the redzone) were atrocious. He had a lot of nice touch elsewhere, but those mistake were horrific.

The issue with punching the ball in from the one is that the offensive line is giving Edge very few holes and the Rams were shutting down the short yardage situations, forcing the Cards to pass near the goalline.

I think once the Cards know they are out of playoff contention Leinart will get in there just like Eli did.

 

[KnowledgeReignsSupreme]

I think the reporter is reading a bit much into this right now. Green didn't say he might bench Warner, he said that he hasn't evaluated the starters yet.

 

[S.K.A.]

As a Cardinal fan, that was a tough game to stomach. Warner blew it, plain and simple. I am not ready for the Cardinals to bench him though. I hope that this game will serve as turning point for Kurt and the team to turn the corner.

I remember Chad Johnson crying after a game a few years ago when they barely lost to the Steelers. That game sticks out because he wasn't happy with close, he said that was a losing mentality.

I am hoping that is how the Cardinals use this loss. I think by putting Leinart in there, the Cardinals are thinking about next year with 13 games left to be played. I may be totally wrong on that and Leinart could turn it around, but I doubt it. Two more losses in three more games and I will be leading the charge to start Leinart, but not yet.

 

[dgreen]

I think the reporter is reading a bit much into this right now. Green didn't say he might bench Warner, he said that he hasn't evaluated the starters yet.

99.9% of the time, a head coach backs his starting QB even if there's a chance he'll benching him.

 

[JuniorNB]

Even if Green is having thoughts of starting the Leinart-era, I think it will probably be a home game against a soft defense.

On the road in Atlanta isn't a great place for a kid's first NFL satrt.

 

[Warhogs]

I think the reporter is reading a bit much into this right now. Green didn't say he might bench Warner, he said that he hasn't evaluated the starters yet.

I agree with this. I am not sure how saying we do not start evaluating things until Tuesday suggests Warner might be benched. I would be very surprised if it happened this early in the season. Benching Warner this early could cause you to lose a team by throwing in the towel and letting the rookie take his lumps. I do not believe the future is now. I think Warner has several more weeks yet.

 

[malice]

I'm guessing the leash will be short Week 6 when the Cards host the Bears on MNF. If Warner turns the ball over multiple times early, Leinart will make his debut with winnable games vs. OAK and GB next on the schedule.

If anything, Leinart has to be more mobile than Warner- and that line is made up of styrofoam peanuts right now.

 

[Couch Potato]

I was at the game and 2 of Warner's 3 picks (the two in the redzone) were atrocious. He had a lot of nice touch elsewhere, but those mistake were horrific.

The issue with punching the ball in from the one is that the offensive line is giving Edge very few holes and the Rams were shutting down the short yardage situations, forcing the Cards to pass near the goalline.

I think once the Cards know they are out of playoff contention Leinart will get in there just like Eli did.

Bagger,On the decision to pass from the one, it's a matter of game situation and risk. It was the wrong call and here's why.

They were down 16-7 in the 3rd quarter. A FG puts them within a TD. At the very least, you have to come away with 3 points. James rarely fumbles and Warner is many, many, MANY times more likely to give it up on either an INT or a sack+fumble. I realize Edge gained only a yard on 1st and G from the two, and nothing on 2nd and G from the one. But you still have to run it again in that situation and take the FG if it fails. Not to mention the boosted confidence in the run game if it succeeds. They took a "we can't do it" mentality when deciding to pass, with much greater turnover risk, ended up having the turnover instead of three points, and lost the game by two. And then Denny points fingers.

 

[Bob_Magaw]

doesn't exactly sound like a ringing endorsement of warner, does it... which he always gave in the past... IF warner was the ironclad, lock starter sun, he could have said so, so we can assume he is at least thinking about it...

just yesterday, there was a thread where many claimed it was absurd & prposterous to even consider the possibility that leinart might get the nod...

the problem is, there are high expectations... getting the new stadium, selling out season tickets, spending a lot of money on edge are great, but dark side is there is now tremendous pressure on green... i don't know if playoffs were a mandate before season, but i'm pretty sure they want to see incremental improvement & competitiveness... maybe 8-8 or even 7-9 would be tolerated, if it looks like they are positioning to take next step... but i'm guessing 6-10 or 5-11 means he gets fired...

so he has to be thinking about shaking things up... the question is if leinart gives team best chance to win... he has been called most pro ready since peyton manning, so he could easily fare better than typical rookie (pro coaching at USC... he amazed team with his early grasp of playbook, so usual biggest obstacle & hurdle to playing instinctively & letting his talent come to fore is already out of the way)...

green's undoing may in the end be inexplicably bringing together pro-bowl caliber assemblage of skill position players & seemingly ignoring OL (wonder if he would like to have kendall & shelton back?)... when warner gets protection, he can still be effective, but as many predicted, if protection crumbles, he gets exposed with fumbles & INTs...

one clear area where leinart looked better RIGHT NOW is his mobility & escapability... he didn't flash it much at USC (& didn't need to with NFL caliber OL like winston justice & deuce latui blocking for him), but in pre-season he clearly is much faster & more elusive than statuesque warner...

i didn't know this, but during NFL channel draft coverage, chavous mentioned that leinart won some prep dunk contests, & is more explosive than generally recognized (i think also posted something like 37"-38" vertical at combine?)...

 

[LHUCKS]

Leinart might be good enough to put the Cards back into playoff contention...that's how good this kid is.

I hope Denny pulls the trigger this week.

As you can imagine the local sports talk shows were wall over Warner this morning...I didn't want to get out of my car.

 

[Raider Nation]

Leinart starting = bad news for Edge for the next few weeks, but in the long run (around week 9 or 10 and beyond) it should be good news for Edge. Leinart is a talented cat.... he'll get the most out of those stud WRs, and he can scramble enough to keep defenses honest. Warner can't move more than 5-7 steps backwards.

 

[John Mamula]

I was at the game and 2 of Warner's 3 picks (the two in the redzone) were atrocious. He had a lot of nice touch elsewhere, but those mistake were horrific.

The issue with punching the ball in from the one is that the offensive line is giving Edge very few holes and the Rams were shutting down the short yardage situations, forcing the Cards to pass near the goalline.

I think once the Cards know they are out of playoff contention Leinart will get in there just like Eli did.

Bagger,On the decision to pass from the one, it's a matter of game situation and risk. It was the wrong call and here's why.

They were down 16-7 in the 3rd quarter. A FG puts them within a TD. At the very least, you have to come away with 3 points. James rarely fumbles and Warner is many, many, MANY times more likely to give it up on either an INT or a sack+fumble. I realize Edge gained a only a yard on 1st and G from the two, and nothing on 2nd and G from the one. But you still have to run it again in that situation and take the FG if it fails. Not to mention the boosted confidence in the run game if it succeeds. They took a "we can't do it" mentality when deciding to pass, with much greater turnover risk, ended up having the turnover instead of three points, and lost the game by two. And then Denny points fingers.

I completely agree with you by the way...I am just saying this is why Green did it.I personally do not throw because you have to come away with 3 at least there.

 

[LHUCKS]

Leinart is a talented cat.... he'll get the most out of those stud WRs, and he can scramble enough to keep defenses honest.

He didn't have to scramble much at USC but it became evident in the preseason that he has playmaker legs...much like Brett Favre's legs if I had to compare him to another QB...sweet pocket presence.

 

[skillz]

While they are an improved team it is apparent that the Cards are not going to make the playoffs with Warner as the QB so why not give Leinart some real game experience so they can build towards '07. Warner is just way too inconsistent and makes too many bone headed plays. I think they give him a few more weeks because they don't want to be perceived as bailing on the season yet (even though Leinart may actually play better than Warner if given the chance). My gut feeling is after Week 6 or so (I think Arizon plays the Bears in Week 6), we will see Leinart. By that point, I think he will have a firm grasp of the offense and playbook, and Warner will either be injured, or play so badly that the team/fans will not have any issues with turning to a rookie QB.

 

[LHUCKS]

I think they give him a few more weeks because they don't want to be perceived as bailing on the season

I disagree with this part of your statement...the fans are overwhelmingly in support of Leinart.

 

[Couch Potato]

I was at the game and 2 of Warner's 3 picks (the two in the redzone) were atrocious. He had a lot of nice touch elsewhere, but those mistake were horrific.

The issue with punching the ball in from the one is that the offensive line is giving Edge very few holes and the Rams were shutting down the short yardage situations, forcing the Cards to pass near the goalline.

I think once the Cards know they are out of playoff contention Leinart will get in there just like Eli did.

Bagger,On the decision to pass from the one, it's a matter of game situation and risk. It was the wrong call and here's why.

They were down 16-7 in the 3rd quarter. A FG puts them within a TD. At the very least, you have to come away with 3 points. James rarely fumbles and Warner is many, many, MANY times more likely to give it up on either an INT or a sack+fumble. I realize Edge gained a only a yard on 1st and G from the two, and nothing on 2nd and G from the one. But you still have to run it again in that situation and take the FG if it fails. Not to mention the boosted confidence in the run game if it succeeds. They took a "we can't do it" mentality when deciding to pass, with much greater turnover risk, ended up having the turnover instead of three points, and lost the game by two. And then Denny points fingers.

I completely agree with you by the way...I am just saying this is why Green did it.I personally do not throw because you have to come away with 3 at least there.

Cool. I didn't know if you were just explaining why they were passing or supporting it. Hey, down 11 points you probably pass. But down 9 it was the wrong choice, and coaches on a professional level should know better.

 

[redman]

I think the reporter is reading a bit much into this right now. Green didn't say he might bench Warner, he said that he hasn't evaluated the starters yet.

Quotes about making no personnel decisions until Tuesday and fumbled snaps during pre-game should never happen don't equate to a statement about changing QB's at all.

 

[#@%&$!?]

Even if Green is having thoughts of starting the Leinart-era, I think it will probably be a home game against a soft defense.On the road in Atlanta isn't a great place for a kid's first NFL satrt.

I agree wif dis.

 

[Sigfawn]

The Cards aren't going to the playoffs. Warner isn't the future, and he isn't even good enough for the present.

But at the same time, I wouldn't start Leinart. Let Warner play 2-3-4 more games. If they're 1-5, okay the season is done. But in order to protect Leinart some, I let the season go down the tubes first.

Look at Palmer, Vick. Look at Harrington, Carr. I'm not sure starting your first year is worth the beating you take. Big ben is the exception that proves the rule. Yes first year QBs struggle. But does that mean it's always good?

Rivers looks far better then a 1st year starter. Very calm, knows the offense, feels comfortable. Got to learn the NFL lifestyle. Travel, year round focus, media. If you look at Harrington after 2-3 years, he pretty much has to be broken down then rebuilt. After 20+ games of not trusting your line, you can't just magically start trusting your line. I'm not sure getting your head beat in helps your progression.

If anything, it might cause you to develop bad habits. Not trusting your line, looking at the pass rush, waiting too long, not waiting long enough, not taking your full drops, going to the checkoff too early. There's just lots of things that a young QB has to learn, and playing early also means he'll probably pick up a bunch of bad habits by getting his head beat in.

Obviously people are mostly split on this. But you see guys like Palmer saying he was not ready to start in his 1st year. He came from the same program, same offense. The leap a QB makes from year 1 to year 2 is huge, whether he plays or not. People in Arizona still have expectations of the playoffs, which is laughable. I wouldn't want my rookie qb being blamed for the season going down the tubes. Let Warner do that, then bring Leinart in late when there's no pressure.

FF wise, yes I'd like Leinart to start now.

 

[Limp Ditka]

http://www.azcentral.com/

'Killer' suspect Goudeau pleads not guilty in assaults?

 

[Sigfawn]

I think the reporter is reading a bit much into this right now. Green didn't say he might bench Warner, he said that he hasn't evaluated the starters yet.

Quotes about making no personnel decisions until Tuesday and fumbled snaps during pre-game should never happen don't equate to a statement about changing QB's at all.

Knowing how the media works, you'd think Green would say "Warner is my guy, end of story." As Shanny did with Plummer. Instead he's creating a circus by not saying Warner is the starter, no question. Maybe he's trying to motivate Warner. I don't know. But by not naming Warner the starter (how many teams don't name the starting qb each week, and wait until Tuesday? Huh?), he's basically saying the QB job is up for grabs.

 

[wannabee]

Does anyone think part of Warner's problems were the result of the helmet-to-helmet shot he took? Afterwards, he went downhill. Maybe a concussion?

 

[smcindoe]

It was interesting to see Warner chew out the center on the bench yesterday, then turn away in disgust and storm off. Right or wrong, can anyone remember Warner doing that to anyone else at any point in his career? He's not exactly Mr. Sunshine but I've never seen him like that before.

 

[malice]

Has anybody interviewed Warner's wife yet for her side of the story?

 

[Kevin Ashcraft]

I think the reporter is reading a bit much into this right now. Green didn't say he might bench Warner, he said that he hasn't evaluated the starters yet.

Quotes about making no personnel decisions until Tuesday and fumbled snaps during pre-game should never happen don't equate to a statement about changing QB's at all.

Knowing how the media works, you'd think Green would say "Warner is my guy, end of story." As Shanny did with Plummer. Instead he's creating a circus by not saying Warner is the starter, no question. Maybe he's trying to motivate Warner. I don't know. But by not naming Warner the starter (how many teams don't name the starting qb each week, and wait until Tuesday? Huh?), he's basically saying the QB job is up for grabs.

FWIW our blogger has this as Green being noncommitalSeptember 25, 2006, 14:58

Cardinals :: QB

HC Green Non-committal On Starting QB

Darren Urban, East Valley Tribune - [Full Article]

On Monday, Arizona Cardinals HC Dennis Green would not commit to who his starting quarterback will be when his team plays the Falcons in week four. Green said he will not look at personnel until Tuesday. “I have not thought about who the starting players are,” Green said. QB Kurt Warner struggled in Sunday’s loss to St. Louis, throwing three interceptions and fumbling away the ball with the Cards in field goal range with less than two minutes left. Green stressed Warner did not deserve all the blame for Sunday’s loss, and reiterated that his was not happy with an offense that has scored 10 and 14 points the past two games. A switch to rookie Matt Leinart seems unlikely, especially with a road game this week.

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/index.php?sty=74945

 

[Delusions Of Adequacy]

I was at the game and 2 of Warner's 3 picks (the two in the redzone) were atrocious. He had a lot of nice touch elsewhere, but those mistake were horrific.

The issue with punching the ball in from the one is that the offensive line is giving Edge very few holes and the Rams were shutting down the short yardage situations, forcing the Cards to pass near the goalline.

I think once the Cards know they are out of playoff contention Leinart will get in there just like Eli did.

Bagger,On the decision to pass from the one, it's a matter of game situation and risk. It was the wrong call and here's why.

They were down 16-7 in the 3rd quarter. A FG puts them within a TD. At the very least, you have to come away with 3 points. James rarely fumbles and Warner is many, many, MANY times more likely to give it up on either an INT or a sack+fumble. I realize Edge gained only a yard on 1st and G from the two, and nothing on 2nd and G from the one. But you still have to run it again in that situation and take the FG if it fails. Not to mention the boosted confidence in the run game if it succeeds. They took a "we can't do it" mentality when deciding to pass, with much greater turnover risk, ended up having the turnover instead of three points, and lost the game by two. And then Denny points fingers.

D Green assumed Warner had enough game experience not to risk an interception from the 1 yard line. We all know that if your receiver isn't wide open you throw the ball away. But I guess Warner didn't get the memo, or thought he was Brett Favre for a few moments there, because he tried to thread the needle.The magnitude of Warner's decline from his peak is as perplexing as it is shocking.

 

[Capt Hook]

Does anyone think part of Warner's problems were the result of the helmet-to-helmet shot he took? Afterwards, he went downhill. Maybe a concussion?

I am with you on that wannabee - in fact one of the local announcers - after the play said something in jest that may not have been that far off the reality after the hit - he said maybe Warner still thought he was on the Rams - and its no so far off after the hit that he might have blanked, seen the wide open Ram jersey and delivered the pass - unfortunately to a St. Louis linebacker.In the paper this morning there was a reference to the fact that rook TE Leonard Pope (who is a 6'8" massive target) was in on the play - at the back of the end zone (must have been way back because he wasn't visible on my TV screen) - and that after Warner threw the pass low, he looked surprised as he walked off (inferring that he meant to get it higher to the back of the end zone) - but if there were clouds from the hit, I think the former scenario is more likely.

 

[Holy Schneikes]

Does anyone think part of Warner's problems were the result of the helmet-to-helmet shot he took? Afterwards, he went downhill. Maybe a concussion?

Not unless he's had a concussion for the last 4 years or so. He did the same things yesterday he's been doing for a LONG time. He's GOT to have more fumbles/snap than any QB in history.He has 41 fumbles in his last 32 games. That's more than 20 fumbles/season. Not to mention all of the UGLY picks. Teams can't win like that.

 

[Tinkles]

Has anybody interviewed Warner's wife yet for her side of the story?

She's a tough interview....Gozer the destroyer will only speak with the keymaster

 

[redman]

It's pretty well documented that you can suffer the effects of repeated concussions for a long time, maybe even permanently, and you become more susceptible to new concussions the more you've had. Warner got abused in that system in St. Louis, so it wouldn't surprise me in the least if he's still affected by that to some degree.

 

[rascal]

Should Warner be benched, how does everyone honestly think this will affect the value of Boldin, Fitz, and James?

IMO I think Boldin and Fitz drop a bit and James gets a slight increase in that they will try to rely on the run a bit more to keep the pressure off the rookie.

 

[-OZ-]

Should Warner be benched, how does everyone honestly think this will affect the value of Boldin, Fitz, and James?IMO I think Boldin and Fitz drop a bit and James gets a slight increase in that they will try to rely on the run a bit more to keep the pressure off the rookie.

As much as I like Leinart long term, I'd drop the value of all players on offense. Defenses will key on Edge, Leinart will have to show he can win games. If AZ had a dominant OL like Pittsburgh, I'd be inclined to bump Edge up, but they do not.

 

[B. Nugget]

I'm glad somebody mentioned the hit he took early in the game. I looked at him and thought to myself, he looks like he is lost out there. He then proceeded to throw 3 INTS and fumble. I'd be willing to be that hit took a bigger toll on his noggin than many realize.

B.Nugget

 

[smcindoe]

Has anybody interviewed Warner's wife yet for her side of the story?

That might be difficult. Last I heard she was still serving time for breaking into the Sesame Street wardrobe factory and stealing the cookie monster's costume prior to Super Bowl XXXIV.

 

[Lauryn]

I think they give him a few more weeks because they don't want to be perceived as bailing on the season

I disagree with this part of your statement...the fans are overwhelmingly in support of Leinart.

the "fans" always want the backup QB if the team is losing...what's new?

 

[Jestefarean]

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/cardinals/...tuation-ON.html

After 4 turnovers on Sunday I say why not! (and as a Leinart owner with problems I second that! )

 

[PatsWillWin]

honda.

 

[malice]

Should Warner be benched, how does everyone honestly think this will affect the value of Boldin, Fitz, and James?IMO I think Boldin and Fitz drop a bit and James gets a slight increase in that they will try to rely on the run a bit more to keep the pressure off the rookie.

Worst case scenario- they're back to 2005 form, but now with a legit RB in the backfield and a QB no worse than the likes of McCown. I think Leinart and the WR corps can put up at least as good numbers as they did last year.

 

[Wally Cleaver]

I am convinced Leinart is the better QB right now and I am surprised more of you don't see it that way... I wouldn't wait too long to get him in as I also believe he will take them to the playoffs. He is one of the most polished and ready qb's to ever come into the league and does not need to hold a clipboard for a full season to be successful...

Heres to hoping it happens soon.

 

[Holy Schneikes]

Should Warner be benched, how does everyone honestly think this will affect the value of Boldin, Fitz, and James?IMO I think Boldin and Fitz drop a bit and James gets a slight increase in that they will try to rely on the run a bit more to keep the pressure off the rookie.

Worst case scenario- they're back to 2005 form, but now with a legit RB in the backfield and a QB no worse than the likes of McCown. I think Leinart and the WR corps can put up at least as good numbers as they did last year.

Exactly, the receivers will be fine. Everybody played chicken little last year when Warner went out and the receivers did as well if not better under McCown.Personally, I think they should have kept McCown. While by no means perfect, he was as good as Warner and would have been a fine stop-gap until either he developed or they got a better QB.

 

[Holy Schneikes]

I think they give him a few more weeks because they don't want to be perceived as bailing on the season

I disagree with this part of your statement...the fans are overwhelmingly in support of Leinart.

the "fans" always want the backup QB if the team is losing...what's new?

This fan just wants a QB who will fumble fewer than 41 times in 32 games. Shouldn't be too hard.

 

[Holy Schneikes]

It's pretty well documented that you can suffer the effects of repeated concussions for a long time, maybe even permanently, and you become more susceptible to new concussions the more you've had. Warner got abused in that system in St. Louis, so it wouldn't surprise me in the least if he's still affected by that to some degree.

I'll buy that, but it doesn't matter really. The fact is that he's been a turnover machine for 4 years and it isn't getting any better.Maybe the hit in this particular game made him even more Warner-like than usual, but even in the best of times he pulls off some real head-scratchers. For me it's hard to blame too much on one particular hit when it happens VERY consistently, even early in games.

 

[ericttspikes]

As a Rackers owner, I hope they get Warner out of there ASAP!!!!

 

[BrentBlack]

Mort just reported that Leinart will start next week. Sounds like he had absolutely no inside info, just making a guess. It's more likely that this is another false ESPN report.

 

[crowe1130]

Chris Mortensen just reported on Monday Night pregame that Leinart WILL start next week. No link, sorry.