Arizona planning to move to 3-4? (1 Viewer)

[Jene Bramel]

PFT.com

A league source tells us that the Arizona Cardinals are quietly plotting a switch from a 4-3 base defense to the 3-4 alignment used by the Steelers for more than a decade.

The only problem? Despite hiring former Steelers offensive coordinator Ken Whisenhunt and former Steelers offensive line coach Russ Grimm, there's no one from Coach Chin's former staff who can teach the Blitzburgh package to the assistant coaches or to the players.

The only guy on the defensive side of the ball with a link to Bill Cowher is linebackers coach Billy Davis, who was on the Steelers' staff for the first three years of Cowher's tenure -- 1992 through 1994. Most recently, Davis was the defensive coordinator in San Francisco. He was fired after the 2006 season.

Obviously won't happen in 2007 as the Cardinals elected to keep Clancy Pendergast around instead of bringing in a guy who knows the 3-4. Still, it's worth keeping in mind and would gain credence if the Cardinals begin to draft players that would fit a 3-4 scheme.

 

[PhillyStars]

PFT.com

A league source tells us that the Arizona Cardinals are quietly plotting a switch from a 4-3 base defense to the 3-4 alignment used by the Steelers for more than a decade.

The only problem? Despite hiring former Steelers offensive coordinator Ken Whisenhunt and former Steelers offensive line coach Russ Grimm, there's no one from Coach Chin's former staff who can teach the Blitzburgh package to the assistant coaches or to the players.

The only guy on the defensive side of the ball with a link to Bill Cowher is linebackers coach Billy Davis, who was on the Steelers' staff for the first three years of Cowher's tenure -- 1992 through 1994. Most recently, Davis was the defensive coordinator in San Francisco. He was fired after the 2006 season.

Obviously won't happen in 2007 as the Cardinals elected to keep Clancy Pendergast around instead of bringing in a guy who knows the 3-4. Still, it's worth keeping in mind and would gain credence if the Cardinals begin to draft players that would fit a 3-4 scheme.

so Jene ...... if they switch , who is likely to end up where? Who on the current roster would fit the scheme? Would Blackstock find a home as a starter with this change?

 

[Rozelle]

KFFL

Cardinals | Team may alter defense

Wed, 28 Mar 2007 14:30:34 -0700

Kent Somers, of the Arizona Republic, reports the Arizona Cardinals may use more 3-4 defensive staples, including zone blitzing, during the 2007 season.

Interesting, Okeafor could be '07 version of Brian Thomas ????

 

[Rozelle]

Watson could play NT

Blackstock better suited as rush OLB

Okeafor can stand up and play rush OLB

Beisel came from 3-4

Not sure if Dockett can be a 3-4 DE?

How they draft should shine some light.

 

[Tick]

Dansby as ILB?

 

[Rozelle]

They prolly lack the personal up front, but should have the LB's, also Pendegast is a 4-3 guy. I stated in another post: late last season Okeafor, was standing up and moving around some, playing like a LB and played very well. We'll see

 

[Bob Magaw]

hayes could be one of the ILBs & dansby would make a good 3-4 OLB with his (underutilized) ability to blitz...

not sure they have a 3-4 DE on board... berry & okeafor undersized for that...

but sure, they could gradually transition to it over a few seasons...

 

[lord_helmet]

I agree that it obviously won't happen this year, but if they made the switch today it would probably be Hayes and Beisel manning the middle.

 

[Rozelle]

Anyone think Dockett could be a 3-4 DE?

 

[Jene Bramel]

I agree with the posts above. It'll be interesting to see which side Dansby and Okafor would set up. Okeafor isn't good enough to be an every down edge rusher on the weak side, but Dansby's probably the better fit as an all around strongside OLB. Would hurt the value of both long-term.

Clancy and Dockett could do okay as 3-4 ends but would be inconsistent if asked to hold double teams, which the Steeler brand of 3-4 does more than the Charger brand. Watson could probably play in either role but would be the NT. They'd need to start drafting some bigger ends this year to get the ball rolling.

Blackstock played some 3-4 OLB in college but is poor enough in coverage that he'd struggle in an every down role and the Cardinals have only rarely used him in blitzing situations, preferring Dansby and Adrian Wilson in that role. He'd probably struggle as a RILB as well so I don't know that his value would be any better in a future 3-4.

 

[pretender]

I agree with the posts above. It'll be interesting to see which side Dansby and Okafor would set up. Okeafor isn't good enough to be an every down edge rusher on the weak side, but Dansby's probably the better fit as an all around strongside OLB. Would hurt the value of both long-term.Clancy and Dockett could do okay as 3-4 ends but would be inconsistent if asked to hold double teams, which the Steeler brand of 3-4 does more than the Charger brand. Watson could probably play in either role but would be the NT. They'd need to start drafting some bigger ends this year to get the ball rolling.Blackstock played some 3-4 OLB in college but is poor enough in coverage that he'd struggle in an every down role and the Cardinals have only rarely used him in blitzing situations, preferring Dansby and Adrian Wilson in that role. He'd probably struggle as a RILB as well so I don't know that his value would be any better in a future 3-4.

Where does Hayes end up in this sort of scheme? His value would be deflated somewhat I would think from MLB in a 4-3 to ILB in a 3-4.

 

[Jene Bramel]

I agree with the posts above. It'll be interesting to see which side Dansby and Okafor would set up. Okeafor isn't good enough to be an every down edge rusher on the weak side, but Dansby's probably the better fit as an all around strongside OLB. Would hurt the value of both long-term.Clancy and Dockett could do okay as 3-4 ends but would be inconsistent if asked to hold double teams, which the Steeler brand of 3-4 does more than the Charger brand. Watson could probably play in either role but would be the NT. They'd need to start drafting some bigger ends this year to get the ball rolling.Blackstock played some 3-4 OLB in college but is poor enough in coverage that he'd struggle in an every down role and the Cardinals have only rarely used him in blitzing situations, preferring Dansby and Adrian Wilson in that role. He'd probably struggle as a RILB as well so I don't know that his value would be any better in a future 3-4.

Where does Hayes end up in this sort of scheme? His value would be deflated somewhat I would think from MLB in a 4-3 to ILB in a 3-4.

Too soon to tell. Much depends on his role and surrounding cast. Plenty of 3-4 ILB finish in the top 25. Hayes would probably fit into the tackler role, but the current DL personnel would limit him if they moved to a three man front today.

 

[nortobc]

How would this move effect Adrian Wilson's production? Seems like he wouldn't blitz as much and might play more coverage.

 

[pretender]

This was in the FBG Blogger

March 29, 2007

Cardinals notebook: Whisenhunt to implement zone blitz packages

Darren Urban, Tribune

While in Pittsburgh, Ken Whisenhunt watched the Steelers play a 3-4 alignment on defense. It’s been a popular theory that the Cardinals will themselves switch to such a look.

But Whisenhunt said Wednesday during the NFC coaches breakfast at the Arizona Biltmore the Cardinals will be a 4-3 team — although there will be “elements” of the 3-4 philosophy.

That makes sense, given that defensive ends Calvin Pace, Chike Okeafor and even Bertrand Berry could be used as linebackers in certain situations.

Whisenhunt also emphasized the need to use Pro Bowl safety Adrian Wilson as a blitzer and said the Cards will incorporate some of the zone blitz packages the Steelers made famous.

“You’ll see a couple of different fronts, a couple of different packages off the blitzes that will help keep people on their toes,” Whisenhunt said.

The coach added he has had to tell defensive coordinator Clancy Pendergast to “get out of my office” because Pendergast has been so excited to talk about the new defensive schemes.

“I like the direction we are going defensively,” Whisenhunt said.

This sounds like they will still remain basically a 4-3 with some different blitzing packages. Who plays where is the big questions.

 

[obxlegends]

This was in the FBG Blogger

March 29, 2007

Cardinals notebook: Whisenhunt to implement zone blitz packages

Darren Urban, Tribune

While in Pittsburgh, Ken Whisenhunt watched the Steelers play a 3-4 alignment on defense. It’s been a popular theory that the Cardinals will themselves switch to such a look.

But Whisenhunt said Wednesday during the NFC coaches breakfast at the Arizona Biltmore the Cardinals will be a 4-3 team — although there will be “elements” of the 3-4 philosophy.

That makes sense, given that defensive ends Calvin Pace, Chike Okeafor and even Bertrand Berry could be used as linebackers in certain situations.

Whisenhunt also emphasized the need to use Pro Bowl safety Adrian Wilson as a blitzer and said the Cards will incorporate some of the zone blitz packages the Steelers made famous.

“You’ll see a couple of different fronts, a couple of different packages off the blitzes that will help keep people on their toes,” Whisenhunt said.

The coach added he has had to tell defensive coordinator Clancy Pendergast to “get out of my office” because Pendergast has been so excited to talk about the new defensive schemes.

“I like the direction we are going defensively,” Whisenhunt said.

This sounds like they will still remain basically a 4-3 with some different blitzing packages. Who plays where is the big questions.

 

[Jene Bramel]

Wow. Still in the "experimental" stage, but another hybrid is in the works. Move to a 3-4 gaining momentum with Whisenhunt implying that Dansby will be used inside and Berry/Okeafor will be standup rush LBs in some sets.

Arizona Republic

Whisenhunt has insisted throughout the off-season that the Cardinals base defense would be a 4-3. But the coach dropped broad hints Wednesday that fans may see a 3-4 alignment more often.

"The defense is going to be a little bit different, scheme-wise, from what they were doing," Whisenhunt said.

Whisenhunt comes to Arizona from Pittsburgh, which ran a 3-4, so he's been asked about possible defensive changes from the time he interviewed for the Cardinals job. He's always said the team would remain in the 4-3 but was vague about details, probably because he didn't want to tip off opponents.

"Certainly there were things I was comfortable with in Pittsburgh that I want to incorporate," he said Wednesday, "and Clancy (defensive coordinator Clancy Pendergast) has been good at that."

The defense this year will be "like a merger of the two things," Whisenhunt said.

The merger will require some changes. Gerald Hayes and Karlos Dansby, a former outside linebacker, will be starting inside linebackers, Whisenhunt said. Those two could start inside together only in a 3-4.

Chike Okeafor and Berry, starting defensive ends, will be "kind of quasi-defensive end/linebackers," Whisenhunt said. "Kind of a mix of a 4-3, 3-4, do a little bit of both."

Whisenhunt also said that Darnell Dockett, a tackle in his previous three seasons, will now be an end who could line up over a guard or tackle, depending upon the formation.

East Valley Tribune

Whisenhunt said it was hard to categorize positions at this point because of the many different packages the Cards will use. But he said both Berry and fellow end Chike Okeafor will be "quasi-end/linebackers" who may rush from a three-point stance one play and stand up on another.

...

Whisenhunt also said the work will be "experimental." The minicamp this weekend will not be as intense as the one held two weeks after the draft with the filled-out roster.

 

[The Man With No Name]

Wow. Still in the "experimental" stage, but another hybrid is in the works. Move to a 3-4 gaining momentum with Whisenhunt implying that Dansby will be used inside and Berry/Okeafor will be standup rush LBs in some sets.

Arizona Republic

Whisenhunt has insisted throughout the off-season that the Cardinals base defense would be a 4-3. But the coach dropped broad hints Wednesday that fans may see a 3-4 alignment more often.

"The defense is going to be a little bit different, scheme-wise, from what they were doing," Whisenhunt said.

Whisenhunt comes to Arizona from Pittsburgh, which ran a 3-4, so he's been asked about possible defensive changes from the time he interviewed for the Cardinals job. He's always said the team would remain in the 4-3 but was vague about details, probably because he didn't want to tip off opponents.

"Certainly there were things I was comfortable with in Pittsburgh that I want to incorporate," he said Wednesday, "and Clancy (defensive coordinator Clancy Pendergast) has been good at that."

The defense this year will be "like a merger of the two things," Whisenhunt said.

The merger will require some changes. Gerald Hayes and Karlos Dansby, a former outside linebacker, will be starting inside linebackers, Whisenhunt said. Those two could start inside together only in a 3-4.

Chike Okeafor and Berry, starting defensive ends, will be "kind of quasi-defensive end/linebackers," Whisenhunt said. "Kind of a mix of a 4-3, 3-4, do a little bit of both."

Whisenhunt also said that Darnell Dockett, a tackle in his previous three seasons, will now be an end who could line up over a guard or tackle, depending upon the formation.

East Valley Tribune

Whisenhunt said it was hard to categorize positions at this point because of the many different packages the Cards will use. But he said both Berry and fellow end Chike Okeafor will be "quasi-end/linebackers" who may rush from a three-point stance one play and stand up on another.

...

Whisenhunt also said the work will be "experimental." The minicamp this weekend will not be as intense as the one held two weeks after the draft with the filled-out roster.

Hmm, no mention of Blackstock. Where would he fit into this?

 

[Jene Bramel]

Hmm, no mention of Blackstock. Where would he fit into this?

Benched in the 3-4 unless one of the OLBs didn't work out, then you could see Dansby outside and Blackstock inside. He's currently the starting WLB in the 4-3.

 

[Tick]

Bert Berry 07 = Bryan Thomas 06?

 

[pretender]

Bert Berry 07 = Bryan Thomas 06?

or Chike Okeafor 07 + Bryan Thomas 06? Who would have the better chance (owner of both)?

 

[Rozelle]

Bert Berry 07 = Bryan Thomas 06?

or Chike Okeafor 07 + Bryan Thomas 06? Who would have the better chance (owner of both)?

I like Okeafor ... :X Chike is 10-15 pounds lighter and appears to have better mobility.Berry has had trouble staying healthy the past 2 seasons.Chike was playing a LB role some late last year.Okeafor owner, so this may be nothing but wishful thinking

 

[pretender]

Bert Berry 07 = Bryan Thomas 06?

or Chike Okeafor 07 + Bryan Thomas 06? Who would have the better chance (owner of both)?

I like Okeafor ... Chike is 10-15 pounds lighter and appears to have better mobility.Berry has had trouble staying healthy the past 2 seasons.Chike was playing a LB role some late last year.Okeafor owner, so this may be nothing but wishful thinking

Lets hope it isn't wishful thinking!

 

[Jene Bramel]

Arizona Republic blog after practice today...

Defensively, it appeared the Cardinals were in a 3-4 alignment the majority of the time. Kendrick Clancy was at noseguard, Darnell Dockett was at left end and Antonio Smith was on the right side. Chike Okeafor and Calvin Pace lined up at outside linebackers with Gerald Hayes and Karlos Dansby inside.

The secondary looked like this: Eric Green and Antrel Rolle at the corners, and Adrian Wilson and Aaron Francisco at safety. Rod Hood traded off with Green at corner, and Terrence Holt did the same with Francisco.

 

[Rozelle]

Darnell Dockett will be asked to play DE when Cards lineup in their 3-4. (can't post link, premium material)

 

[Tick]

I hope we can figure out which spot Dansby will take in the middle, and which way they'll be funneling plays. He could be a monster.

 

[KellysHeroes]

so now what happens w/ Hayes' Value..

and wouldn't Dansby make a better OLB... kind of like Porter in Pit

 

[Rozelle]

Darnell Dockett will be asked to play DE when Cards lineup in their 3-4. (can't post link, premium material)

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/cardinals/...5cards0415.htmlWhen team goes to 3-4:

Dansby will move inside. I would guess along side of Hayes.

Dockett to DE and Berry and Okeafor OLB.

 

[Jene Bramel]

so now what happens w/ Hayes' Value.. and wouldn't Dansby make a better OLB... kind of like Porter in Pit

That was my first thought on Dansby too, but he can play inside.I haven't checked the homer boards to see how the ILBs are aligning (and the info may not be there anyway). IMO, the value of the ILBs are tied closely to which side they align. Hopefully, we'll get a better indication before Week 2, which was when Vilma's alignment issue first became clear to me.

 

[KellysHeroes]

hmmm

Guess they will use both formations this year, right?

Either way.. what is Hayes' dynasty value? I have him as a #4 in my new league.

 

[Rozelle]

hmmmGuess they will use both formations this year, right?Either way.. what is Hayes' dynasty value? I have him as a #4 in my new league.

Thats my understanding, they actually ran a bit of 3-4 last year. As for Hayes, alot will depend where he lines up. In a 3-4, Offenses are generaly right handed, so the LILB and LOLB will be strong-side and should have more tackle opps.

 

[ironmon]

i'm trying to figure out how it will affect hayes ' numbers in 2007

 

[chook]

i'm trying to figure out how it will affect hayes ' numbers in 2007

Umm....

 

[UCSBgerry]

They should go down but not considerably. He'll probably score in LB 30-40 range.

 

[KellysHeroes]

They should go down but not considerably. He'll probably score in LB 30-40 range.

I think LB 30 would be his low end #..i have 2 reasons to think that1) Hayes would still be in the coverage packages which makes him 3 down LB2) Dansby seems to have health issues; hard time staying on the field last yr; if Dansby gets injuried, that gaurantees Hayes the Tackling position.

 

[Jene Bramel]

Still trying to confirm the linebacker alignment in the 3-4.

Darren Urban (East Valley Tribune) told me by email that Okeafor lined up as the SOLB and Pace the WOLB during the pre-draft mini-camp. He expects Berry to play the WOLB when he's cleared to return. He wasn't sure to which side the ILBs aligned. I'm hoping he (or one of the other beat writers) will fill us in if they can.

 

[Rozelle]

By Dan Arkush Pro Football Weekly

April 17, 2007

The questions only grow in frequency when you consider the other side of the ball, which is where Whisenhunt apparently has ditched his plan to retain the 4-3 defensive scheme that was in place in favor of a very Steelers-like 3-4. At the team’s first voluntary minicamp this past weekend, one observer told me that, “to the naked eye, the 3-4 was used 90 percent of the time.”

Whisenhunt quickly issued the following marching orders at his team’s first offseason gathering:

Darnell Dockett, previously considered one of the more up-and-coming defensive tackles in the NFL when properly focused, lined up at left end.

DEs Bertrand Berry, Chike Okeafor and former first-round pick Calvin Pace had all been turned into hybrid “quasi-end/linebackers,” in the words of Whisenhunt, with Pace looking as though he would be getting a very legitimate shot at taking away playing time from Berry, whose stock appears to have declined somewhat following two straight seasons that ended prematurely due to injury.

LB Karlos Dansby, who came on strong last season after being hurt early, has moved from the strong side to the inside along with Gerald Hayes, where Whisenhunt envisions both of these big, talented playmakers routinely clogging up passing lanes in the middle of the field.

 

[Jene Bramel]

Still trying to confirm the linebacker alignment in the 3-4. Darren Urban (East Valley Tribune) told me by email that Okeafor lined up as the SOLB and Pace the WOLB during the pre-draft mini-camp. He expects Berry to play the WOLB when he's cleared to return. He wasn't sure to which side the ILBs aligned. I'm hoping he (or one of the other beat writers) will fill us in if they can.

From Kent Somers (Arizona Republic):"On the outside, Okeafor lined up on the strong side. Inside, i think it was Hayes, although I couldn't be sure because they often were across a couple of fields from us."That alignment would make the most sense to me. You'd think they'd want Dansby at the weak side ILB position to keep him free to roam and keep Hayes in a similar role to his 4-3 MLB spot. I think Hayes keeps most of his value in this alignment, but he'll need Gabe Watson (or somebody else) to step up as a consistent NT. Dansby probably gets enough blitzing and coverage opportunities to keep his value stable to what it was as a 3 down SLB.

 

[KellysHeroes]

Thats good news for Hayes owners... is it safe to say that Hayes will have a Farrior type role in the Defense?

 

[UCSBgerry]

Thats good news for Hayes owners... is it safe to say that Hayes will have a Farrior type role in the Defense?

Hayes value this year still goes down because of the 3-4 switch. As a Hayes owner myself I am looking to shop him for whatever I can get. At best this year, he is a bye week filler. Sell now if you can because he was top 25 last year, this year he should be around 40 or so with the change in the formation.

 

[Jene Bramel]

Thats good news for Hayes owners... is it safe to say that Hayes will have a Farrior type role in the Defense?

Hayes value this year still goes down because of the 3-4 switch. As a Hayes owner myself I am looking to shop him for whatever I can get. At best this year, he is a bye week filler. Sell now if you can because he was top 25 last year, this year he should be around 40 or so with the change in the formation.

Why?

 

[KellysHeroes]

Thats good news for Hayes owners... is it safe to say that Hayes will have a Farrior type role in the Defense?

Hayes value this year still goes down because of the 3-4 switch. As a Hayes owner myself I am looking to shop him for whatever I can get. At best this year, he is a bye week filler. Sell now if you can because he was top 25 last year, this year he should be around 40 or so with the change in the formation.

Why?

Because he wants me to get nervous and trade him Hayes . I'll hold.

 

[Rozelle]

Hayes production as well as Dansby's will have alot to do with how well the boys up front play in the 3-4.

 

[stevegamer]

I think this might help both Okeafor & Berry - if the defense can generate enough confusion, it should be good for AZ's pass rush. Both of these guys get more of their value from sacks, so any extra tackles from being a LB would be gravy.

Also might keep Berry healthier.

 

[KellysHeroes]

Jene... Any updates

I heard theres word of Hayes losing his Job

 

[redman]

Jene... Any updates

I heard theres word of Hayes losing his Job

Boy I hope not. You got a link?

 

[KellysHeroes]

Jene... Any updates

I heard theres word of Hayes losing his Job

Boy I hope not. You got a link?

ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmyou don't remember this thread

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...howtopic=316125

Heres what rotoworld wrote of Buster

Cardinals selected Florida State ILB Buster Davis with the No. 69 overall pick in the NFL Draft.

Heady but short, Davis impressed at the Combine with a forty in the 4.6s when he was expected to be a bit slower. If Arizona moves Karlos Dansby to outside linebacker to take advantage of his pass-rushing skills, Davis could vie with Darryl Blackstock to start inside with Gerald Hayes.

So does any one know anything about this situation

 

[Perry Ice]

Does this potential switch have any effect on Adrian Wilson retaining his lock as the top fantasy DB

 

[pretender]

This was in the FBG Blogger

March 29, 2007

Cardinals notebook: Whisenhunt to implement zone blitz packages

Darren Urban, Tribune

While in Pittsburgh, Ken Whisenhunt watched the Steelers play a 3-4 alignment on defense. It’s been a popular theory that the Cardinals will themselves switch to such a look.

But Whisenhunt said Wednesday during the NFC coaches breakfast at the Arizona Biltmore the Cardinals will be a 4-3 team — although there will be “elements” of the 3-4 philosophy.

That makes sense, given that defensive ends Calvin Pace, Chike Okeafor and even Bertrand Berry could be used as linebackers in certain situations.

Whisenhunt also emphasized the need to use Pro Bowl safety Adrian Wilson as a blitzer and said the Cards will incorporate some of the zone blitz packages the Steelers made famous.

“You’ll see a couple of different fronts, a couple of different packages off the blitzes that will help keep people on their toes,” Whisenhunt said.

The coach added he has had to tell defensive coordinator Clancy Pendergast to “get out of my office” because Pendergast has been so excited to talk about the new defensive schemes.

“I like the direction we are going defensively,” Whisenhunt said.

This sounds like they will still remain basically a 4-3 with some different blitzing packages. Who plays where is the big questions.

Does this potential switch have any effect on Adrian Wilson retaining his lock as the top fantasy DB

I would think this would provide even more value for Adrian Wilson with him blitzing more JMHO