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Ask Your Resident Right-Winger Why He Doesn't Support Trump (1 Viewer)

General Malaise said:
Alt-Right had a permit to demonstrate on June 4th.  Portland Mayor yanked the permit and has vowed to deny further permits for hate speech.  He's getting lambasted for this and while I think his motive is public safety in a time of great stress and tension, I don't know that this a slope we need to climbing.  I hate what happened Friday.  It breaks my heart.  But the First Amenent is pretty damn important too.  

Sad days in an otherwise sanguine city.
I understand the Mayor's impulse in the wake of tragedy.  Lives were struck down.  Let's not also strike down the Constitution.  He needs to trust that the good citizen's of Portland will be able to do their own thinking and will reject, peacefully, speech in need of rejection.  The actions of citizens up there recently lead me to believe the citizen's have this.  Me, I might go to such an event so that I might stand across the street with my back to it in silent vigil.  

 
Ilov80s said:
I think I understand the argument here and imo Saints is right. If GOP wants to be the party of law and the constitution then they can't break those principles just because the Dems did.
There isn't even much of an argument to be had.  Executive orders aren't unconstitutional.  Conservatives took issue with particular Obama orders because they felt they were unconstitutional.  Now liberals are taking issue with particular Trump orders because they feel they are unconstitutional.

There's nothing inconsistent about this.

 
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There isn't even much of an argument to be had.  Executive orders aren't unconstitutional.  Conservatives took issue with particular Obama orders because they felt they were unconstitutional.  Now liberals are taking issue with particular Trump orders because they feel they are unconstitutional.

There's nothing inconsistent about this.
Conservatives took issue with the fact that Obama was issuing executive orders, regardless of their Consitutionality.  That's they hypocrisy.  

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
That's what this thread is essentially about - he's not conservative and yet Republicans and conservatives are abandoning conservativism for him.
He's about as conservative as Hillary is liberal.  You can't exactly segment 90%+ of the US population into two groups without some serious grey area.

 
jon_mx said:
I haven't supported Trump. I have oppose the toolishness displayed by his opponents, the likes of which are unprecedented.  
But totally deserved and not unexpected.

63 million rubes elected a guy with ZERO qualifications and character flaws out the ying-yang because they wanted "something different".  Well they got it.  And he sucks ###.

 
I understand the Mayor's impulse in the wake of tragedy.  Lives were struck down.  Let's not also strike down the Constitution.  He needs to trust that the good citizen's of Portland will be able to do their own thinking and will reject, peacefully, speech in need of rejection.  The actions of citizens up there recently lead me to believe the citizen's have this.  Me, I might go to such an event so that I might stand across the street with my back to it in silent vigil.  
I don't.  This is where he should step in as a rational leader, not fly off the handle with half-cocked ideas.  He's setting the city up for more violence.

 
Not even close to unprecedented.  Do you forget how Obama, and, to a lesser extent, Bush 43, were treated?
It is.  As social media expands attention spans are shrinking, traditional news sources are trying to compete with bloggers, and political ideologies are becoming more self-reinforcing.  I think things have been getting worse, and will continue to do so.

 
I don't.  This is where he should step in as a rational leader, not fly off the handle with half-cocked ideas.  He's setting the city up for more violence.
Yes, I worry that there will be far more violence because of this.  I don't think the Alt-Right will just accept the Mayor's decision and I don't think the Antifa or counter protestors will stay home either.  I think we've taken a very volatile situation and added rocket fuel to it.  

 
And I don't know what to tell you about the Trump supporters on this board. I'd long grown tired of the sarcasm and emoji act myself. But the level of personal insults from the other side has gotten so bad I felt the need to say something. 
Ah yes, the classic move of trolling and egging people on to say something and then acting shocked and offended when they say it (all while alleging that they're a "snowflake", which is an insult btw, for being offended to easily).  The oldest trick in the book.  Usually reserved for youtube trolls but now prevalent both here and in the highest office of our country.

And let's not forget all of this is coming from the group that has literally replaced the word that describes the other side's political leanings (liberal) with an insult (lib-t-ard) in their vocabulary.

 
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Look for the helpers....

Portland MAX hero's last words: 'Tell everyone on this train I love them'

Even with headphones on, Rachel Macy said, she heard a man shouting and spewing foul language as soon as he boarded the eastbound MAX Green Line train Friday night at Lloyd Center.

"He was just being really belligerent and loud,'' she said.

The man, since identified as Jeremy Joseph Christian, entered through doors on one side of the train, and stepped across the aisle to a pole by the doors on the opposite side of the train.

"He was screaming that he was a taxpayer, that colored people were ruining the city, and he had First Amendment rights,'' Macy said.

Then he made anti-Muslim slurs.

"I didn't want to look. I was too afraid. It felt really tense,'' said the 45-year-old Southeast Portland resident of Native American descent. "I'm a woman of color. I didn't want him to notice me.''

The seats on the train were all taken, and other passengers were standing but it hadn't reached the rush-hour crush yet as the train headed toward the Hollywood station around 4:30 p.m., she said.

Macy noticed a young man quickly brush past her seat, while talking on the phone. He looked nervous and was moving away from Christian. Something didn't feel right, she said. She'd later learn that was Taliesin Myrddin Namkai-Meche, 23.

Rick Best, 53, stood closest to Christian. He was trying to calm Christian down, by letting him know he had heard him.

"He was repeating back what this guy was saying. Like, 'I know you're a taxpayer. But this is not OK, that he was scaring people,' '' recalled Macy, whose account provides the most detailed chronology of the chaos that ensued.

Christian didn't seem to respond; just kept shouting. "He was not hearing anybody, just talking louder,'' she said.

At one point, the train operator got on the loudspeaker, saying something like whoever is creating the disturbance needed to exit the train immediately, Macy said. The operator also threatened to call police.

Christian screamed out that he was getting off the train at the next stop, and that "if anyone (expletive) followed, they were going to die,'' Macy recalled.

Namkai-Meche turned back toward Christian and briskly walked over to him, and loudly implored him, "You need to get off this train. Please, get off this train.''

Passengers Best, Namkai-Mache and a third man, Micah David-Cole Fletcher, 21, were trying to deescalate the tense situation, intervene and get Christian off the train, she said. Macy said she didn't know where the two teenage girls who were the target of his racist rants were seated. She said it appeared as if the men who were stabbed "were trying to be a barrier'' between Christian and the girls.

Someone attempted to move Christian away from the girls he was verbally harassing with a slight push or shove. "Touch me again, or I'm going to kill you,'' Macy heard Christian respond.

Namkai-Meche was holding up his phone, Macy said. She wasn't sure if Namkai-Meche was trying to show Christian something on the phone or was recording the interaction.

Suddenly, Christian hit the phone away and stabbed Namkai-Meche in the neck, she said.

"It was just a swift, hard hit,'' she said. "It was a nightmare.''

Macy said she didn't know which man was slashed with the knife first but believes the train may have been just pulling into the Hollywood station or had just stopped when the stabbings occurred.

The attacker looked at the other passengers, cursed at them and then fled.

"One minute people were on the train, and the next minute, next to nobody,'' she recalled.

Best didn't take more than a few steps and fell to the floor, she said. At least two men came to his aid. "Stay with us. You are strong. Stay with us,'' she recalled them saying.

Michael Kennedy was one of those men. He came up to the front car from the second car of the train, as other passengers raced away from the commotion. In written messages to The Oregonian/OregonLive, he said he and two other men started CPR chest compressions on Best until emergency medics arrived.

"It never occurred to me to do otherwise,'' wrote Kennedy. He said his training as a paramedic from more than a decade ago kicked in.

Namkai-Meche stumbled along the aisle away from Christian past Macy. She turned to face him. His flannel shirt was covered with blood; his face pale.

Holding his neck, he said, "I'm going to die,'' according to Macy.

"I looked at him and said, 'we can handle this. Lay down.' ''

He lay on the floor of the train. Macy crouched beside him, pulled off her black tank top and gave it to Namkai-Meche. He pressed the shirt to his neck wound. She placed her hand over his.

She noticed a deep, long gash along Namkai-Meche's neck.

Another man who she described as a veteran also tried to comfort Namkai-Meche and keep him from panicking. He told Namkai-Mache that his heart was beating, and he was OK, pointing out the sound of sirens and help on its way.

 "I just kept telling him, 'You're not alone. We're here,'' Macy said. "What you did was total kindness. You're such a beautiful man. I'm sorry the world is so cruel.''

And she prayed.

"When I said 'pray with me,' he just closed his eyes and tried to keep breathing,'' she recalled.

Fletcher stumbled off the train holding his neck, she said.

Macy remained on the train until police and emergency medics arrived. Medical personnel tried to work on Best but he was pronounced dead at the scene.

Medics put Namkai-Meche on a stretcher. Macy stayed by his side. Before he was carried away, he had a last message, she said: "Tell everyone on this train I love them. ''

Macy, who is studying psychology at the Cascade campus of Portland Community College, left her leather school bag, purse and cell phone behind and then stepped back to where Best was lying. She prayed for him and his family.

"I was saying, 'Creator – provide comfort to his family who don't know you're here,'' she recalled.

An officer called out to her: "You did what you could, it's time to come off the train.''

Once she stepped off, she realized she was only wearing a slip on top. Police interviewed witnesses on the Hollywood station platform. About 20 minutes had passed when she learned from an officer that Namkai-Meche had died at a local hospital.

The next night, Macy met Namkai-Meche's mother and father at a vigil held by the train stop. She handed his father a purple-painted, heart-shaped rock, her prayer rock.  She said the victim's parents thanked her for being with their son, telling her that she was "a mamma to our boy in that moment.''

Macy, a single mother of five children who rides the MAX to and from her community college courses at least three times a week, said she just did "what had to be done.''

"I just kept thinking this is someone's child,'' she said.

But Macy said it was Best, Namkai-Meche and Fletcher who she called "angels walking among us'' because they took a risk and stood up to defend others against Christian's racist rants.

"This man was so reckless and filled with hate,'' Macy recalled of Christian. "None of it makes sense. That's what's so sad.''

 
jon_mx said:
:goodposting:   That is the problem with hate speech, it can become any speech you disagree with. 
and then when you defend innocent people against this hate speech in person, you get get stabbed in the neck.

 
Yes, I worry that there will be far more violence because of this.  I don't think the Alt-Right will just accept the Mayor's decision and I don't think the Antifa or counter protestors will stay home either.  I think we've taken a very volatile situation and added rocket fuel to it.  
Portland is Fake Liberal.

 
and then when you defend innocent people against this hate speech in person, you get get stabbed in the neck.
As if one violent act even comes remotely close to outweighing the importance of having free speech. Besides, it was not the presence of free speech which caused the violence.  

 
He's about as conservative as Hillary is liberal.  You can't exactly segment 90%+ of the US population into two groups without some serious grey area.
Uh that's kind of what this thread is partly about. Trump stands against conservative principles over and over again, yest conservatives drop their principles to defend him.

And someone mentioned it, here in a great post I'd like to find, but so often, almost always - except for the nationalists and reddit4channers - Trumpite Republicans cop out to the whataboutism ("Hillary!" Obama!") and the emotionalism (hurt feelings, emojis, claims of being treated unfairly), where I don't recall Republicans ever doing that in the past. The conservatives I recall were intellectual online tough guys who would come with pistols firing, historical arguments, real constitutional arguments. That is so gone now, if someone feels like that as a Republican or conservative they're pretty much likely to be anti-Trump on any given point, and those people are not wanted by Team Trump.

 
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I've come to the conclusion that Trump is the result of 40 years of the middle class being decimated because of corporate greed and the government's apathy. 

Similarly to how Reagan's presidency was backlash against the social progress made in the 60s & 70s.

I feel like people are angry, and rightfully so. They look at immigrants who come over and barely speak English and become well-off in less than a generation. I think of a lot Americans feel left out. 

Obama was supposed to be different. He was supposed to put the corporations in check. But he basically kept the status quo and gave us unaffordable healthcare. And then what does he do after his presidency? Get paid hundreds of thousands of dollars for a speaking engagement. 

I don't think people are wrong in their frustrations, but trump isn't going to do anything to make matters better. 

What needs to happen is a literal "draining of the swamp." We need an entire new congress. It should be an unpaid position and lobbying should be illegal. Congress should be there to pass laws and create policy. Not get fat from corporate donations. Now is that gonna happen? Absolutely not. 

 
Wreck, Jon, I realize there's a hypocrisy war being waged, and while I realize you have 'a point' I think you're going to hit a reckoning moment with Trump. Maybe I'm wrong but things are getting pretty warped. The AG supposedly offered to resign just as an example. I said during the election that Trump has a 1:1 with almost every scandal and claim that was made with Obama (non-US parent) and the Clintons (harassment, foundation, daughter in waiting, etc.), but I don't think the comps hold when you get into the details either.  I think you will have to make a call eventually. Good luck.

 
Wreck, Jon, I realize there's a hypocrisy war being waged, and while I realize you have 'a point' I think you're going to hit a reckoning moment with Trump. 
I don't understand what you're saying.  I think I hit a reckoning moment with Trump a long time ago.  Really there's not much more he can say or do that is going to surprise me at this point.

 
During the election, I was active against Trump. From the primaries to even pushing the Libertarian ticket as an alternative in general. 

However, the unhinged opposition of the left has turned me from opposing him to being fairly neutral. I am not afraid to smack him with criticism and man there is plenty of that but I am also not afraid of applauding things that are good. Then again, that is how I have always viewed Presidents- whether I saw myself allied to them or the loyal opposition. Objective rational thought in political thinking in modern America seems to be an endangered animal nowadays. (On both sides of the political spectrum) 

 
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During the election, I was active against Trump. From the primaries to even pushing the Libertarian ticket as an alternative in general. 

However, the unhinged opposition of the left has turned me from opposing him to being fairly neutral. I am not afraid to smack him with criticism and man there is plenty of that but I am also not afraid of applauding things that are good. Then again, that is how I have always viewed Presidents- whether I saw myself allied to them or the loyal opposition. Objective rational thought in political thinking in modern America seems to be an endangered animal nowadays. (On both sides of the political spectrum) 
He ended up being worse than some of us feared. 

 
He ended up being worse than some of us feared. 
How so? 

Comments like that kind of remind me of what I was saying in that post. The mouth frothing hate overtakes the actual moronic things about him. 

In some ways he far exceeded my expectations. In some ways he delivered.

This Biden Administration is an objectively an epic failure and I would have opted for another 4 from Orange Man than these 4 from the grandpa in the family that no one in the family would let him go to the grocery store alone let alone run the nation. 

I don't want Trump back and I have plenty of negative comments I could make but so much of the criticism is unhinged. 

 
How so? 

Comments like that kind of remind me of what I was saying in that post. The mouth frothing hate overtakes the actual moronic things about him. 

In some ways he far exceeded my expectations. In some ways he delivered.

This Biden Administration is an objectively an epic failure and I would have opted for another 4 from Orange Man than these 4 from the grandpa in the family that no one in the family would let him go to the grocery store alone let alone run the nation. 

I don't want Trump back and I have plenty of negative comments I could make but so much of the criticism is unhinged. 
You obviously aren't paying attention to the January 6th Committee hearings. I don't care what you think he "delivered", he tried to destroy the single most important element of our democracy, our election. 

Clear and present danger to American democracy

 
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How so? 

Comments like that kind of remind me of what I was saying in that post. The mouth frothing hate overtakes the actual moronic things about him. 

In some ways he far exceeded my expectations. In some ways he delivered.

This Biden Administration is an objectively an epic failure and I would have opted for another 4 from Orange Man than these 4 from the grandpa in the family that no one in the family would let him go to the grocery store alone let alone run the nation. 

I don't want Trump back and I have plenty of negative comments I could make but so much of the criticism is unhinged. 
The world needs more level headed people like Chad in it. 

 
@FBG Moderatorpls move to PSF. 

I'd like to keep this thread open for posterity (yesterday several people accused me of supporting Trump when I had gone out of my way to take this thread out back in 2017 and had expressed my dissatisfaction with him even at the beginning of the primaries). It's my one way of answering invective over there and belongs over there. 

 
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@FBG Moderatorpls move to PSF. 

I'd like to keep this thread open for posterity (yesterday several people accused me of supporting Trump when I had gone out of my way to take this thread out back in 2017 and had expressed by dissatisfaction with him even at the beginning of the primaries). It's my one way of answering invective over there and belongs over there. 
The horror! 

 

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