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Aunt Jemima. Uncle Ben’s. Now Eskimo Pies. When will Redskins change their name? (1 Viewer)

So white actresses can't do voices of bi-racial cartoon characters now. Apparently bi-racial only equals black now. Also, I never heard any issues with black James Earl Jones doing the voice of white Darth Vader.

 
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Chemical X said:
I think everyone is at the point of being shouted at as being "racist".  If you don't "support" BLM, what does this mean?  So, companies are now supporting something intangible and if you don't come out and show your support, you are a racist.  This has shifted from white police killing black citizens (but not the other way around i believe) to solving racial and social inequalities, to monuments to the anthem to everything in between.  The conversation to be had is longer than i can post.  I mean, if someone came up to me and asked me if i support BLM, i am not sure how to answer. 
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I don't want to throw the baby out with the bath water, so I'll just highlight the bolded and leave be. 

 
The newest element to this is to "shut up and listen." I personally think I have been listening for the past thirty years and nothing has changed on either side. It's enough to make me want to tune both sides out and just get some good old fashioned personal responsibility back in fashion while also properly using vetted, tested, trained, and reasonably armed actors instead of a maintaining a supervised anarchy like the ghetto or a custodial democracy like ours is on a larger scale. Lots of people in prisons -- how much can democracy take of its own actors acting so criminally or being put in situations so easily to be charged for meaningless things? 

It seems both sides need to be called to account.  

 
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jobarules said:
So white actresses can't do voices of bi-racial cartoon characters now. Apparently bi-racial only equals black now. Also, I never heard any issues with black James Earl Jones doing the voice of white Darth Vader.
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I think some of this stuff is a real stretch- though it's also a stretch to find the few times a white person has been played by a non-white. As for bi-racial (assuming you mean Black and White), they are almost always grouped into the category of black in society. Think of the one-drop rule. These were actual laws in many States. 

 
Ilov80s said:
I think some of this stuff is a real stretch- though it's also a stretch to find the few times a white person has been played by a non-white. As for bi-racial (assuming you mean Black and White), they are almost always grouped into the category of black in society. Think of the one-drop rule. These were actual laws in many States. 
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I'm trying to keep this all strait.

You can be born with male organs but identify as a female.  But if you're 50/50 black/white you have to identify as black.

Who makes these rules, seems to contradict the whole self determination thing.

 
djmich said:
I'm trying to keep this all strait.

You can be born with male organs but identify as a female.  But if you're 50/50 black/white you have to identify as black.

Who makes these rules, seems to contradict the whole self determination thing.
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A mixed person can choose to identify however they want but you are being intentionally obtuse if you don’t think most mixed race people get treated by society as if they are black. There’s research that shows this. Also it was actually the law in the 20th century. In 1930, the US government got rid of the mixed race option for the census and only had black or white. If you had anything non-white in your heritage, you were not legally considered white.

 
Ilov80s said:
A mixed person can choose to identify however they want but you are being intentionally obtuse if you don’t think most mixed race people get treated by society as if they are black. There’s research that shows this. Also it was actually the law in the 20th century. In 1930, the US government got rid of the mixed race option for the census and only had black or white. If you had anything non-white in your heritage, you were not legally considered white.
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Yah, not on same wavelength here.

People born with ##### are treated as men.  And I'm pretty sure thats been the US governments position also (not sure past government practices are the right social barometer)?  I'm not defending the census or the government.

My point is society is evolving on the gender identification front but we're accepting of a more rigid "race" definition based on past practices from established organizations that we've ridiculed for their gender definition flaws.  At least thats my impression from your posts, you can clarify.

What does that mean mixed race gets treated like their black?  Whats the black treatment...police abuse?

 
Honus said:
Up next, the Dixie Chicks

https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-53180585
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I wanted to do a whole thread on this but everyone that is interested is likely in here. Some other bands or musicians that will be changing their names as to not offend anyone...

-Slash and Duff have announced they are just the "Roses" and will be touring in the Fall.

-Also Cat Stevens will now go by Pet Stevens to be more inclusive of all animals. 

 
djmich said:
Yah, not on same wavelength here.

People born with ##### are treated as men.  And I'm pretty sure thats been the US governments position also (not sure past government practices are the right social barometer)?  I'm not defending the census or the government.

My point is society is evolving on the gender identification front but we're accepting of a more rigid "race" definition based on past practices from established organizations that we've ridiculed for their gender definition flaws.  At least thats my impression from your posts, you can clarify.

What does that mean mixed race gets treated like their black?  Whats the black treatment...police abuse?
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I hear you and I am not defending it so much as providing context for understanding. I think some people's POV is for much of the history of movies and TV, black people were mostly limited to stereotypical subservient minor characters. Any black character or mixed character of any substance was likely getting played by a white person. So now that they have a voice, they want to be able to represent those roles. I have never seen those cartoon shows so I don't know what the mixed characters were like. I can say that as a teacher, I have taught many many mixed race kids and they much more  often identify, socialize and get grouped in with the black students than with the white students. It isn't something the kids, parents or school staff are consciously doing to make it that way. I think it's just how most Americans are quickly socialized to think. I am sure there is data out there from mixed people about who they believe should be cast in those roles. I also think what the role is matters, what kind of themes the show touches on matter. Ultimately, I think the best answer is cast mixed actors or play mixed characters.  

 
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Ilov80s said:
I hear you and I am not defending it so much as providing context for understanding. I think some people's POV is for much of the history of movies and TV, black people were mostly limited to stereotypical subservient minor characters. Any black character or mixed character of any substance was likely getting played by a white person. So now that they have a voice, they want to be able to represent those roles. I have never seen those cartoon shows so I don't know what the mixed characters were like. I can say that as a teacher, I have taught many many mixed race kids and they much more  often identify, socialize and get grouped in with the black students than with the white students. It isn't something the kids, parents or school staff are consciously doing to make it that way. I think it's just how most Americans are quickly socialized to think. I am sure there is data out there from mixed people about who they believe should be cast in those roles. I also think what the role is matters, what kind of themes the show touches on matter. Ultimately, I think the best answer is cast mixed actors or play mixed characters.  
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Thanks.  Interesting observation on the bolded

 
jobarules said:
So white actresses can't do voices of bi-racial cartoon characters now. Apparently bi-racial only equals black now. 
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I admittedly can't wrap my head around how folks expect to erase race when doing things like this. And by erase race, I mean get to the point in the world where we just see a person, not a white person or a black person. What you quoted just seems so contrary to what I believe we are hoping to achieve.

 
glvsav37 said:
too late. People are already calling for a change, but I suspect they will dig in their heels 

https://www.sportsbettingdime.com/news/golf/odds-masters-augusta-renamed-blm-movement-favorite/
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So surprised this went WAAAAY too far way too fast.  Oregon no longer calling battle of state schools in sports the Civil War.  There have been hundreds of civil wars in history with nothing to do about race. 

So now no one can be a golfing master?  Karate master?  Zen master?  Won't be able to get a masters degree anymore either.

 
Gonna have to rename the excellent Avengers movie to "A disagreement among superheroes normally friendly."  Sounds excellent.

 
facook said:
So surprised this went WAAAAY too far way too fast.  Oregon no longer calling battle of state schools in sports the Civil War.  There have been hundreds of civil wars in history with nothing to do about race. 

So now no one can be a golfing master?  Karate master?  Zen master?  Won't be able to get a masters degree anymore either.
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don't forget those racist bathrooms

The Houston Association of Realtors will use "primary" to describe bedrooms and bathrooms on its listing service and replace the word "master."

The move comes after several members raised the issue and called for a review, according to CNN affiliate KPRC.

Amid increasing calls for racial justice, "master" has fallen out of favor due to its association with slavery.
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What a freaking ridiculous country we live in.  Take something that is good and decent and just fly WAAAAY past the boundary of reason to try to create a very stupid new normal.  I wish the insane vocal minority of the population - on both ends of the spectrum - would shut up and go away.  Let the rest of us live in peace.

 
facook said:
What a freaking ridiculous country we live in.  Take something that is good and decent and just fly WAAAAY past the boundary of reason to try to create a very stupid new normal.  I wish the insane vocal minority of the population - on both ends of the spectrum - would shut up and go away.  Let the rest of us live in peace.
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Diversity has it's pros and cons. We just need to learn to be more respectful of each other... I plan to just be a hermit for the rest of my life and scream obscenities into the back of my cave. 

 
GordonGekko said:
You are using logic when logic has no chance to prevail.

What is the real tragedy here? Long term?

It's not going to be people gunned down in the streets. ( Although this is pretty sh*tty too)

It's going to be a young black American who is one day going to just try to live a normal life, try to get ahead, try to build a career, have a few laughs outside of work or have a hobby and the majority of people will be conditioned to see it's better to just ignore them.

Let's get real here, if you owned a small business, would you want to hire a black person right now? Esp if you are not black yourself. Even moreso, a black woman? How about a black woman you know is gay?  Does that make you a racist? A bigot? A hateful person? Or are you looking out for the risk/reward of the possible nightmare of someone saying the wrong thing at the wrong time then get on the camera of a IPhone then go viral and then destroy your life?

Is it worth your home? Your possible retirement fund? The safety and security of your children?

What's happening isn't making the future easier for all black people, it's getting a few black people rich off of soft serve push level extortion at the cost of generations of brutal loss. If a black person is shot, right or wrong, then the response is to burn down the infrastructure around which those black people live, how is that progress for the long term?

No one is coming to save you. No one is coming to save black people, they have to do it themselves, for themselves. Historically they've proven they can't in America, not against the odds and against the average. So like the short necked giraffes, they'll be left out in the wind to perish.

But to have a discussion like this, you are going to be called a racist or worse. So instead no one says anything. And they will also not extend goodwill nor opportunities either. Silently they won't want you near their kids, in their schools or their neighborhoods. Because they hate you? No, because they desire self preservation above all else.

Black Lives Matter is a failure for a reason far outside of race itself. It demands empathy yet gives none. Beware of any ideology that ask you to be better but doesn't apply it to themselves.
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Having trouble seeing the points here.

Why wouldn't a small business -- or any business for that matter -- want to hire a black man/woman/gay employee? Because of the off chance something is filmed at your establishment that gets you in trouble? Trouble for what exactly?

Or is that you will say something that's misinterpreted by that employee on camera that will get you in trouble? If you are treating your employees like a human being -- which is how you should be doing it anyway -- I don't see any risk at all and to suggest that you should feel more risk -- or that your livelihood is at risk by hiring such a person -- is downright ludicrous to me.

I also think it's myopic to say that what is going on right now is not making the future easier. People aren't "burning down the infrastructure" because of a reaction to a black person being shot -- it's because of the hundreds of years leading up to this point where this has been going on, and despite myriad approaches, getting attention to the issue has failed. It is literally the last resort. And it's not like you are walking out the door and seeing the world on fire. Peaceful demonstrations far outweigh the week+ of violence you saw in some locations after George Floyd. What you continue to see are videos of cops continuing brutality without accountability, videos surfacing from years prior pointing out bad actors and using the present attention to drive accountability.

Heartily disagree that the black community needs to save themselves. We all need to be in this together. Right now, the focus is on black lives, which is 100% ok with me. If we row together for change, it helps change for all of us, and increases awareness of ensuring there is justice and equity for all other groups that have been disenfranchised systematically for so long. To say historically they can't in America fundamentally misses the point that the deck has been stacked against them and other minority disenfranchised groups for so long.

They will only be "left out in the wind to perish" if we continue to let that happen. The majority of people HAVE been conditioned to ignore this issue, and it's time for that to change.

Rather than throw your hands up at past failure, or think that nothing is going to change -- or worst of all, continue to ignore it and not say anything -- it's time to get behind it and push for meaningful and fundamental changes to a fundamentally broken system.

Change starts with all of us.

 
facook said:
So surprised this went WAAAAY too far way too fast.  Oregon no longer calling battle of state schools in sports the Civil War.  There have been hundreds of civil wars in history with nothing to do about race. 

So now no one can be a golfing master?  Karate master?  Zen master?  Won't be able to get a masters degree anymore either.
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This is what happens when people with no spines bow to ignorant unintelligent mobs.

 
facook said:
So surprised this went WAAAAY too far way too fast.  Oregon no longer calling battle of state schools in sports the Civil War.  There have been hundreds of civil wars in history with nothing to do about race. 

So now no one can be a golfing master?  Karate master?  Zen master?  Won't be able to get a masters degree anymore either.
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This is outrageous.It’s unfair!

 
Dan Lambskin said:
This is outrageous.It’s unfair!
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:lmao:  Love you Dan.  It's not unfair.  It's stupid and unnecessary and focuses attention on minutia instead of the actually important movement we've seen in the last several weeks.  And by doing so it alienates people who might agree with the initial movement and causes them to throw up their hands and shut down.

 
facook said:
:lmao:  Love you Dan.  It's not unfair.  It's stupid and unnecessary and focuses attention on minutia instead of the actually important movement we've seen in the last several weeks.  And by doing so it alienates people who might agree with the initial movement and causes them to throw up their hands and shut down.
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Take a seat, young Skywalker

 
Wrigley said:
Or the Masters
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Did you see how they handled the protest from the feminists because there wasn't a female member at Augusta. They didn't want to put their normal sponsors in a tough spot, so they televised the Masters without any commercials. For better or worse, as far as this golf tournament is concerned, that name isn't going anywhere. 

 
facook said:
:lmao:  Love you Dan.  It's not unfair.  It's stupid and unnecessary and focuses attention on minutia instead of the actually important movement we've seen in the last several weeks.  And by doing so it alienates people who might agree with the initial movement and causes them to throw up their hands and shut down.
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totally agree

 
facook said:
Love you Dan.  It's not unfair.  It's stupid and unnecessary and focuses attention on minutia instead of the actually important movement we've seen in the last several weeks.  And by doing so it alienates people who might agree with the initial movement and causes them to throw up their hands and shut down.
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Was actually about to post this very thing, but you said it much better than I would have.

 
facook said:
:lmao:  Love you Dan.  It's not unfair.  It's stupid and unnecessary and focuses attention on minutia instead of the actually important movement we've seen in the last several weeks.  And by doing so it alienates people who might agree with the initial movement and causes them to throw up their hands and shut down.
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There isn't even going to be football so we can chill. Maybe they will change their mind 2021. Also, there is nothing stopping you from calling it the Civil War still. If you are alienated because they changed the name of your favorite artificial maple syrup or college football game, maybe you weren't really on board to begin with.

 
Ilov80s said:
There isn't even going to be football so we can chill. Maybe they will change their mind 2021. Also, there is nothing stopping you from calling it the Civil War still. If you are alienated because they changed the name of your favorite artificial maple syrup or college football game, maybe you weren't really on board to begin with.
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You missed my point.  Changing things that are blatantly racist is good.  I don't care about the syrup - if it's a racist character it SHOULD change.  Redskins should change imo.  I care when "they" go way overboard to try to tie a racist meaning to things that have no inherently racist meaning - like calling a stupid football game "The Civil War."  That's why the tongue-in-cheek attack of Yale is so effective.  It points out how ludicrous those who take it to the extreme can be (and are being).

How will you feel when you can no longer call UM's home stadium "The Big House"?  Seems like there are some pretty bad connotations to that name.  

 
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EYLive said:
Diversity has it's pros and cons. We just need to learn to be more respectful of each other... I plan to just be a hermit for the rest of my life and scream obscenities into the back of my cave. 
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Diversity is great.  Insanity is harmful.

 
facook said:
You missed my point.  Changing things that are blatantly racist is good.  I don't care about the syrup - if it's a racist character it SHOULD change.  Redskins should change imo.  I care when "they" go way overboard to try to tie a racist meaning to things that have no inherently racist meaning - like calling a stupid football game "The Civil War."  That's why the tongue-in-cheek attack of Yale is so effective.  It points out how ludicrous those who take it to the extreme can be (and are being).

How will you feel when you can no longer call UM's home stadium "The Big House"?  Seems like there are some pretty bad connotations to that name.  
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No I do agree that a lot of it is overboard and absurd really. I just hope we get a Civil War game this year and that’s what I will call it. 

 
GordonGekko said:
Spike Lee has a production company called "40 Acres And A Mule"

Where is your outrage?

When people demand equality then don't actually apply equality, it's just another form of socially acceptable extortion.
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Why would I be outraged by something I'd never heard of, and now that I have don't know what that means?

I'm FAR more outraged by the ludicrous witch-hunt for racism than I am by the things that MIGHT be racist.

But yes it works both ways.  You are right about that.

 
bradyfan said:
CNBC: Coca-Cola pauses advertising on all social media platforms globally

many companies are pausing advertising on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter.

Have they done something racist?  Sorry, I haven’t been following the news.
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I think all companies are going to hit pause on their marketing and every show, movie, etc is going to be very strong on casting more diversity although they have been saying they were doing that or moving in that direction for years. And we're talking about a largely progressive and forward group in Hollywood, bit shameful they don't have more to offer in their prime time line ups. 

 
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