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Yup. You, and most baseball fans would celebrate this.Bonds eclipsing Aaron will be a shameful day in the history of sports.I'm more interested in seeing if Howard will break the single season non-steroid real home run record.
You going to cry?Yup. You, and most baseball fans would celebrate this.Bonds eclipsing Aaron will be a shameful day in the history of sports.I'm more interested in seeing if Howard will break the single season non-steroid real home run record.
No, I'll probably break my tv, though. Kill two birds with one stone. Give zero attention to the cheater, and it'll justify me buying a new 50 inch plasma.You going to cry?Yup. You, and most baseball fans would celebrate this.Bonds eclipsing Aaron will be a shameful day in the history of sports.I'm more interested in seeing if Howard will break the single season non-steroid real home run record.
Samsung has a pretty nice looking line, we just got a 42".No, I'll probably break my tv, though. Kill two birds with one stone. Give zero attention to the cheater, and it'll justify me buying a new 50 inch plasma.You going to cry?Yup. You, and most baseball fans would celebrate this.Bonds eclipsing Aaron will be a shameful day in the history of sports.I'm more interested in seeing if Howard will break the single season non-steroid real home run record.
We don't, but there's no evidence that Howard is juicing. With Bonds, however, it's indisputable, unless you're deliberately being a moron.
Have you seen Howard? He's about as built as Lance Berkman.Alex Sanchez was busted for roids... so was Matt Lawton. Neither of these guys struck anyone as roidheads. You guys want to talk about burying your head in the sand? Keep believing that Sosa, Big Mac, Bonds, Conseco, etc were the only ones using. On top of that, pretty much anybody who wasn't doing steroids was doing meth. You can keep going back all throughout the history of baseball with this stuff. The whole thing is tainted with something or another, IMO you either accept it for what it is or you don't.
Howard is 'country boy' thick. Not steroids 'thick.'
He's got the same build I do.
Howard is 'country boy' thick. Not steroids 'thick.'
Hmmm.
Alex Sanchez was busted for roids... so was Matt Lawton. Neither of these guys struck anyone as roidheads. You guys want to talk about burying your head in the sand? Keep believing that Sosa, Big Mac, Bonds, Conseco, etc were the only ones using. On top of that, pretty much anybody who wasn't doing steroids was doing meth. You can keep going back all throughout the history of baseball with this stuff. The whole thing is tainted with something or another, IMO you either accept it for what it is or you don't.
Howard is 'country boy' thick. Not steroids 'thick.'
He's got the same build I do.
To be honest, my answer is yes.To better my argument, I'd say that Bonds never tested positive for steroids. Major League Baseball did not test for steroids when Bonds took them.Justin Gatlin ran faster than anyone in the history of mankind. Is that not worth a pause or reflection on your part?Bonds doesn't look anything like a cenatuar to me. In fact, he looks a whole lot healthier than most people his age, and better than most baseball players his age too. Bonds has hit more home runs than anyone in the history of the NL. If that's not worth a pause or reflection on your part, that's fine -- but I think you're missing out. At this point it's obvious that Bonds is no longer playing at an all time great level (although he's certainly an above average baseball player), so I'd avoid the whole "it's a honor to watch him play" shtick. But it's a tremendously impressive feat, of course, since no one else has ever done it.
The steroids talk is irrelevant to me. There never has been, is not, and never will be a level playing field to make meaningful comparisons between players of different eras. But Barry Lamar has hit more homers than any other NLer ever.
Essentially, your argument appeals to the "he didn't get his hand caught in the cookie jar" argument. And, therefore, are we to simply dismiss all other variables, factors, evidence? I mean, you don't have to read Game of Shadows to know the obvious. The position MLB took is deplorable in its own right and worthy of a different discussion. I'm fine with your Mexico hypothetical. Frankly, I think it's a bit tenuous what punishment he'd get if it were proven in a court of law that he was jamming needles in his tuckis in the good ol' USA. But, I still reserve the right to join the growing collective dismissal of his career records because of his use that he clearly benefited from. So, I give aTo be honest, my answer is yes.To better my argument, I'd say that Bonds never tested positive for steroids. Major League Baseball did not test for steroids when Bonds took them.Justin Gatlin ran faster than anyone in the history of mankind. Is that not worth a pause or reflection on your part?Bonds doesn't look anything like a cenatuar to me. In fact, he looks a whole lot healthier than most people his age, and better than most baseball players his age too. Bonds has hit more home runs than anyone in the history of the NL. If that's not worth a pause or reflection on your part, that's fine -- but I think you're missing out. At this point it's obvious that Bonds is no longer playing at an all time great level (although he's certainly an above average baseball player), so I'd avoid the whole "it's a honor to watch him play" shtick. But it's a tremendously impressive feat, of course, since no one else has ever done it.
The steroids talk is irrelevant to me. There never has been, is not, and never will be a level playing field to make meaningful comparisons between players of different eras. But Barry Lamar has hit more homers than any other NLer ever.
Hypo: Let's say Barry Bonds lived in Mexico for the entire off-season, and took steroids. And he occasionally took trips (say during the All Star Break) to Mexico for steroids. So he never broke any US or Mexico laws, since steroids aren't illegal in Mexico and it's not a violation of US law to inject yourself with steroids when you're in Mexico.
Now Barry has broken no laws and broke no major league baseball rules. What are your thoughts on him now?
anytime he passes career records because it's highly unlikely that he would've approached without the benefit of roids.
If I smoke weed in Amsterdam on a business trip, then come back and test positive for weed, I will be fired.To be honest, my answer is yes.To better my argument, I'd say that Bonds never tested positive for steroids. Major League Baseball did not test for steroids when Bonds took them.Justin Gatlin ran faster than anyone in the history of mankind. Is that not worth a pause or reflection on your part?Bonds doesn't look anything like a cenatuar to me. In fact, he looks a whole lot healthier than most people his age, and better than most baseball players his age too. Bonds has hit more home runs than anyone in the history of the NL. If that's not worth a pause or reflection on your part, that's fine -- but I think you're missing out. At this point it's obvious that Bonds is no longer playing at an all time great level (although he's certainly an above average baseball player), so I'd avoid the whole "it's a honor to watch him play" shtick. But it's a tremendously impressive feat, of course, since no one else has ever done it.
The steroids talk is irrelevant to me. There never has been, is not, and never will be a level playing field to make meaningful comparisons between players of different eras. But Barry Lamar has hit more homers than any other NLer ever.
Hypo: Let's say Barry Bonds lived in Mexico for the entire off-season, and took steroids. And he occasionally took trips (say during the All Star Break) to Mexico for steroids. So he never broke any US or Mexico laws, since steroids aren't illegal in Mexico and it's not a violation of US law to inject yourself with steroids when you're in Mexico.
Now Barry has broken no laws and broke no major league baseball rules. What are your thoughts on him now?
I don't think anyone is downplaying Bonds' greatness. He was a great player even before the 35 lb. weight gain.I think what has people upset is teh greatness of natural hitters like Aaron, Mays, and Ruth shamefully dropping out of the record books as the result of cheating.If Bonds' career numbers were similar to other cheaters, like Canseco, Sosa, or Palmiero, there wouldn't be as much hatred. No one cares if some steroid abuser sits at 500 craeer home runs. They can either choose to recognize it or not. But Bonds is going to someday be listed as number one on the all-time home run list. Asteric or not, his name just doesn't belong there.
:( You make being a jerk so difficult at times...I am speechless and therefore surrender.
Exactly. We're talking about the context of the record here more than anything. For obvious reasons, we don't recognize Justin Gatlin's 9.76/100m record after it was tainted by his positive steroid test and he accepted his 8-year ban from T&F. It happened, and he ran that fast, but we have every reason to dismiss it because he was caught cheating and would not have obtained that record without steroids.But, there's no reason to exhaust a lot of venom towards the middling also-rans who have so little effect on the landscape of their sport. It's enough for me that there will be a muted reaction to Bonds when he breaks the record. He won't ever enjoy the accolades that should come with the record, and that's as it should be because most folks understand that it will be inflated by steroid use.
Or, you could use it as a teaching opportunity:"Look kids, here's a guy who's breaking one of the most hallowed records in the history of sports, and he's not getting much of a celebration from the crowd. You know why they are booing him? Because he cheated his way to the record. There are several folks who have been sent to jail on his behalf. To add to this, he's been a real ### to his teammates, fans, even his own mom. This is how not to conduct yourself. Wanna' get some peanuts?"
I agree, the game deserves a good deal of hate for how they've ignored this issue. But, Lamar makes it ridiculously easy to be a hater on him, too.Don't hate the player...hate the game!
We've been through this a million times. Bonds didn't cheat. He violated no rules of MLB. Steroids weren't banned. If Bonds' moral decisions are too far south on your moral compass, that's fine; but for lots of people it's still a big deal (regardless of what the media says). In general these records are overrated (career accomplishment records; no one thinks Aaron was the greatest HR hitter of all time), but it's still impressive.
ty cobb down?
So you're saying Ty Cobb was a prosthetic penis?
Wrong. Yes he did and yes they were."The possession, sale or use of any illegal drug or controlled substance by Major League players and personnel is strictly prohibited ... [and those players involved] are subject to discipline by the Commissioner and risk permanent expulsion from the game.... This prohibition applies to all illegal drugs and controlled substances, including steroids…" - Fay Vincent, 1991
I don't think there's any doubt that he gets a bad rap because he's Barry Bonds and the media hates him. People forget about these things when it's a player they like, and labor on them when it's a player they hate.
It doesn't help that he's a cheat, either. Let's not forget this.
Chase,You ever see 61*? It kind of reminds me what Maris went through. No matter what he did, the media spun it to be a negative. It could be totally different and maybe he is a jerk, but I just don't see it. I mean, I see some idiot things he says, but if that's how we judged ball players, Yzerman and Ripken may be the only two "good" guys ever to play sports.
So is everyone else. Show me an athlete that hasn't bent the rules at some point in his career to get ahead.
Easier for you to show me who has and did, than who didn't. You want to assert they're all cheaters, fine. Demonstrate how Hank Aaron cheated, for starters. Then, let's go with Maris. Give me some dirt on Ruth while you're at it. To paint the entire league and its history with such a broad brush as cheaters is your perogative. Bonds clearly manipulated the rules in such a subversive way that people all around him are going to jail to protect him and the sources that would indict him. Me thinks this is a bit different than your typical cheater who doesn't touch second base on the double-play exchange.
Do you think any of those guys ever slid into second, knew they were out, only to have the ump make a bad call and say they were safe? I've never seen a runner say, "Ump, excuse me. I was actually out." Or a fielder attempt a tag only to miss but have the runner called out anyway? Do you think they told the ump to change the call? How about a basketball player who wasn't fouled but got the call anyway? Did they correct the ref?Technically, if they didn't, then they all cheated.
Technically, none of these things are cheating. These are acts adjudicated on the field of play and given a ruling. What Bonds did was a subversive and chronic, years-long attempt to circumvent MLB policy. I'm fine if you think this is ok. Just understand when the majority of a country will look upon Bonds's record with a cynical, muted reaction. It will be a record, no doubt. MLB shouldn't asterisk the thing or act like it didn't happen. But, reasoned fans will all understand the false pretense under which he obtains the title.
It's all cheating. Some more so than others. And in my eyes, if you're going to cheat, cheat big.
Since you concede that there's "big" cheating and otherwise, then I can agree in principal with that. Bonds's record is certainly the product of the former.
What stadium? At Pac Bell, sure. But, anywhere else, he's greeted with a smattering of cheers and mostly a robust chorus of boos.
Probably. Some seem to feel that Justin Gatlin is the world record holder in the 100m, despite his 8-year ban from T&F.
you must be 
