Bathroom guys - estimate needed (2 Viewers)

[Michael Brown]

I have used the same contractor to refinish my entire lower level of my house which included installation of a 20-ft steel beam, then had him do the wet bar too. All-in costs were pretty reasonable compared to some of the other numbers I was seeing, and they did a very good job on both. I had him quote out a bathroom renovation for the master bath, and the costs appear to be high in my non-professional opinion. Basically we're responsible for all tile and grout, frameless glass shower door, sink, toilet, vanity. What do you think he should charge us for the below statement of work?

-Demo the existing bathroom down to the studs including removing the existing floor. Remove the soffit in the shower area to open up that area. Remove all existing plumbing fixtures inside the shower area. Green board will be used mold/mildew resistant for the walls and ceiling. Cement board will be used for the floor, and the tub/shower area. Install all of the new plumbing fixtures in the shower area, vanity/sink, and toilet. A custom rubber membrane base will be installed before installing the tile to the shower floor. Customize a bench/seat area in the shower if decided. Install tile to the floor and walls in the shower area. Install new tile to the floor and 4 ft high around the walls. Supply and install door and window moldings. Install any new light fixtures that are existing. Any insulation needed will be installed. Tape, spackle, sand and paint the bathroom. Get rid of all debris.

All pricing is based on the above estimate. Any unforeseen issues or additional work will be discussed with the homeowner. Contractor will supply all of the ruff material. Owner supplies tile, plumbing fixtures, lighting fixtures/exhaust fan. Any additional electrical work or plumbing work that is needed will be additional cost. Shower glass door will be additional.   

 

[mr roboto]

150k. 

 

[Michael Brown]

150k. 

Dammit! I knew he was overcharging me...

 

[Michael Brown]

Also I'm in north NJ if that changes anything (which it usually does)

 

[gianmarco]

What's the sq ft of the shower and the entire bathroom?

 

[mr roboto]

Seems like it's basically labor plus some non-finish materials?  You need to buy the finish materials and fixtures?

I'd say 7k for all that labor. 

 

[Ignoratio Elenchi]

I'm in North/Central NJ and had a bathroom done about a year and a half ago.  The statement of work you listed sounds about what we had done, and I think the contractor charged us ~$5,500.  I guess it would vary based on complexity of work and size of bathroom, ours was pretty small and relatively simple.  

Edit: Re-reading, we didn't have tile on the walls outside the shower, and our guy didn't paint the walls, I did that since he wanted another couple hundred bucks for what amounted to an afternoon of work for myself.  So mr roboto's probably pretty close.  

 

[Michael Brown]

It's 4x7 for the entire bathroom, 8 feet high. There's no tub just a shower stall that's about 4x3

 

[fruity pebbles]

Thats a small bathroom. We had ours done, was 8x8. Down to the studs and i bought all fixtures, bathtub, glass doors etc. i also painted the room after the drywall went up. Tile floor and tile around the bathtub was included in the price. He put a new window and door in. He hired out the plumber and electrician and that was included in the price but things were basically back where they were. Did a fantastic job. His bill was $7500. The fixtures, glass door, toilet, tub, vanity etc cost me around $4000. 

 

[xulf]

We have a leak in our master from a DIY from someone previously.  Rip out of everything (shower, jet tub, two sinks) plus custom cabinets on the bottom of dual sinks and in between (minus countertop and fixtures) was ~11k.  Based on pics he does good work, and I expect 15k overall.  

 

[Galileo]

It's 4x7 for the entire bathroom, 8 feet high. There's no tub just a shower stall that's about 4x3

4 x 7 and the shower takes up 4 x 3???  This is a master bath? 

 

[Michael Brown]

4 x 7 and the shower takes up 4 x 3???  This is a master bath? 

Not the main bathroom in the house, just a tiny one off the master bedroom. There's basically a toilet, small sink, and shower stall. Shower area is 4x3 and the non shower area of the room is ~ 4x4

 

[Michael Brown]

We have a leak in our master from a DIY from someone previously.  Rip out of everything (shower, jet tub, two sinks) plus custom cabinets on the bottom of dual sinks and in between (minus countertop and fixtures) was ~11k.  Based on pics he does good work, and I expect 15k overall.  

Yeah there are multiple leaks in ours. The shower tile is probably from when the house was first built in the 60s. Tiles are literally not on the walls. The toilet is busted and hasn't been used in months. We haven't even been using the sink or shower, because running the water from either of those causes water to leak from the toilet tank for some reason. It's a complete #### show, which I hope he's not just taking advantage of that fact to gouge me. The costs being posted here are much more reasonable than the $12,700 i was quoted! Which is why I figured I'd ask here, because generally you guys are a lot smarter than the dopes I know IRL.

 

[xulf]

Yeah there are multiple leaks in ours. The shower tile is probably from when the house was first built in the 60s. Tiles are literally not on the walls. The toilet is busted and hasn't been used in months. We haven't even been using the sink or shower, because running the water from either of those causes water to leak from the toilet tank for some reason. It's a complete #### show, which I hope he's not just taking advantage of that fact to gouge me. The costs being posted here are much more reasonable than the $12,700 i was quoted! Which is why I figured I'd ask here, because generally you guys are a lot smarter than the dopes I know IRL.

10k to 15k is what I expected for me.  I don't think your quote is crazy considering .

 

[fruity pebbles]

Yeah there are multiple leaks in ours. The shower tile is probably from when the house was first built in the 60s. Tiles are literally not on the walls. The toilet is busted and hasn't been used in months. We haven't even been using the sink or shower, because running the water from either of those causes water to leak from the toilet tank for some reason. It's a complete #### show, which I hope he's not just taking advantage of that fact to gouge me. The costs being posted here are much more reasonable than the $12,700 i was quoted! Which is why I figured I'd ask here, because generally you guys are a lot smarter than the dopes I know IRL.

$12,700 plus you buy all the new stuff? Was tiling included in that price? The tile guy alone was over 2 grand in mine.

 

[gianmarco]

Yeah there are multiple leaks in ours. The shower tile is probably from when the house was first built in the 60s. Tiles are literally not on the walls. The toilet is busted and hasn't been used in months. We haven't even been using the sink or shower, because running the water from either of those causes water to leak from the toilet tank for some reason. It's a complete #### show, which I hope he's not just taking advantage of that fact to gouge me. The costs being posted here are much more reasonable than the $12,700 i was quoted! Which is why I figured I'd ask here, because generally you guys are a lot smarter than the dopes I know IRL.

 That seems high for that size bathroom and you having to buy all the tile and fixtures.  I would have expected that including everything.  Then again, I don't know if prices are just higher because of where you live.  I would get other quotes.

 

[Michael Brown]

Yeah I was thinking he would come in around $6-$8k, then the glass door adds another $1500 and then my FIL works in the tile industry and gets a good deal so that would've been another grand or so. So after the sink, toilet, etc if it was $10-$12k all in I'd say that's reasonable. But almost $13 outta the gate means we're talking potentially $16k+ for a room that's less square footage than my bed. Gonna have to shop this around.

 

[MarvinTScamper]

Seems to me he's bidding high on purpose.  Cramped, small job, little margins since your buying the supplies.  Probably doesn't really want the job, but would do it for a higher margin gain on labor 

 

[El Floppo]

150k. 

eta: but let's be honest- he's asking for WAY more than a bath tub converting to a shower.

 

[mr roboto]

I would guess 12-18k for everything (including materials as long as they weren't stupid expensive). That labor seems high to me. 

 

[NFL-ons]

$12,700, that's a nice payday!

Here you go.  Ask him to itemize his estimate:

Demo

Debris removal

Rough frame

Shower pan

Rough plumb

Electrical

Wall/Cement board

Tile work

Plaster

Paint

Trim work

Electrical finish

Plumbing installs

You can do the demo or get some grunt to do it for a couple bucks.  Bag debris in manageable quantities and you can put out on curb yourself.  MAKE SURE U SHUTOFF WATER SUPPLY TO BATHROOM BEFORE BEGINNING!   You can also find plenty of good tile guys to give u competitive quotes for that portion of the job.  If the rough electrical and plumbing is done well, you should b able to do fixture installs yourself and of course, u should paint.  Then u can look at the prices and logically determine if there are any unreasonable costs. 

Lastly, IMO, the shower pan install is THE most important part of this reno.  They are not difficult to do but must be done right!  Make sure u have confidence in whoever u have do this part of the project.  The only fix, if done incorrectly, is to rip it out and do again.  You don't want to go there.

Ok, second lastly, based upon the limited description in the initial work estimate, I can almost guarantee you the contractor has left some room to bump up the cost, after he gets into the job.

Whoever you use, make sure the estimate is signed before giving your deposit.

 

[Dan Lambskin]

Seems to me he's bidding high on purpose.  Cramped, small job, little margins since your buying the supplies.  Probably doesn't really want the job, but would do it for a higher margin gain on labor 

Yeah sounds like a ####ty job

i was gonna guess $5-$10K

 

[Johnny Rock]

Very high quote and too many crazy contingencies to bump the price later. 

4 ft high tile in the shower? Wtf? 

What's the plan for waterproofing the shower? I'd be worried there, especially if it already leaks. 

Might as well do the demo yourself and just pay a plumber time and materials. Get a separate quote for the shower if you're not comfortable with that like someone else said. With FIL in tile business there's your in to quality install and great value on the tile itself. That's your biggest risk to the job going south and you're well covered there.

Why give this guy an insane profit on such a small job (which I agree is possibly why he quoted it so high)? You don't need a GC and for sure not this guy IMO. He seems to be taking advantage of your past relationship and thinking you will agree to anything. 

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Price is at least $2000 to high.  Also, get your floor heated since you are going down to bare bones.  You will not regret it, assuming you have the capacity to carry the amps.  Some older homes are rather tight up against things and the cost of a panel upgrade would make it not such an attractive idea.

 

[Michael Brown]

$12,700, that's a nice payday!

Here you go.  Ask him to itemize his estimate:

Demo

Debris removal

Rough frame

Shower pan

Rough plumb

Electrical

Wall/Cement board

Tile work

Plaster

Paint

Trim work

Electrical finish

Plumbing installs

You can do the demo or get some grunt to do it for a couple bucks.  Bag debris in manageable quantities and you can put out on curb yourself.  MAKE SURE U SHUTOFF WATER SUPPLY TO BATHROOM BEFORE BEGINNING!   You can also find plenty of good tile guys to give u competitive quotes for that portion of the job.  If the rough electrical and plumbing is done well, you should b able to do fixture installs yourself and of course, u should paint.  Then u can look at the prices and logically determine if there are any unreasonable costs. 

Lastly, IMO, the shower pan install is THE most important part of this reno.  They are not difficult to do but must be done right!  Make sure u have confidence in whoever u have do this part of the project.  The only fix, if done incorrectly, is to rip it out and do again.  You don't want to go there.

Ok, second lastly, based upon the limited description in the initial work estimate, I can almost guarantee you the contractor has left some room to bump up the cost, after he gets into the job.

Whoever you use, make sure the estimate is signed before giving your deposit.

He's a friend of my cousin, so I don't think he's taking advantage. But yeah definitely possible that he's overquoting it because he doesn't want the job. The danger of course is that I find someone else to do it and continue to go with them for the rest of the jobs in the house. Probably have about $100k in planned home renovations over the next couple years, and we've talked about adding another floor to the house down the line. Not saying he has to take every job I offer him, but figured he'd want to keep the momentum going. But I digress.

From what I've found at least in my area, is that these contractors never want to itemize their jobs because then people can do precisely what you just said. Pick and choose which parts to do themselves vs a contractor.

 

[Michael Brown]

Very high quote and too many crazy contingencies to bump the price later. 

4 ft high tile in the shower? Wtf? 

What's the plan for waterproofing the shower? I'd be worried there, especially if it already leaks. 

Might as well do the demo yourself and just pay a plumber time and materials. Get a separate quote for the shower if you're not comfortable with that like someone else said. With FIL in tile business there's your in to quality install and great value on the tile itself. That's your biggest risk to the job going south and you're well covered there.

Why give this guy an insane profit on such a small job (which I agree is possibly why he quoted it so high)? You don't need a GC and for sure not this guy IMO. He seems to be taking advantage of your past relationship and thinking you will agree to anything. 

The 4ft high tile in the shower is just the way he worded it. It's fully tiled on the floor and walls of the shower; the 4-foot tiling will be around the other walls in the room, similarly to how he did it in my family room a couple years ago. Problem is that that bathroom job was part of a bigger overall job, so I never really got the cost of that broken out separately. I highly doubt he charged me $12,700 for that considering it was a full room demo, new drywall, ceiling install, floor tile, electrical, plumbing, and installation of a 20-foot steel beam to turn 2 rooms into 1, and the entire cost was $36k.

 

[Michael Brown]

Price is at least $2000 to high.  Also, get your floor heated since you are going down to bare bones.  You will not regret it, assuming you have the capacity to carry the amps.  Some older homes are rather tight up against things and the cost of a panel upgrade would make it not such an attractive idea.

Upgraded to 200amp when we first moved in a few years ago, so we have capacity for it. My next door neighbor actually sells the radiant heated floors, so I'm strongly considering it. Such a small area, but that's the bathroom I'd use in the middle of the night or for early morning showers, so it's the most likely to be the one I'd step on barefoot in the cold. I'm DEFINTIELY looking into radiant heating when we redo the driveway. Living in north Jersey and never having to worry about shoveling the driveway again? Um yeah where do I sign?

 

[huthut]

Just talked to a contractor about getting our bathrooms redone a week or so ago. One is ~5x7, the other is around 5x9. We were looking into redoing the tile, both showers, and the tile around the shower. Both bathrooms have pedestal sinks and we were looking at replacing them with some sort of 3'-4' cabinet setup w/ sink since having no storage in the bathroom is dumb. Just a rough guess in how much this stuff would cost? The estimate we got was 45k for both bathrooms which seemed much higher than I was expecting. I was guessing it would be between 16-25k. They also intentionally did not itemize it, where they had every part broken down, but at $0, and then just a single line for bulk work with the price.

 

[wilked]

Agree on radiant heat on floor. Short money to install, and from that point on you only pay when it is on. It's worth it simply to build the option in, and for those really cold months you will love it. 

 

[ghostguy123]

Rip it all out and make a walk in closet or something for like a grand.  Seems like a hell of a lot of money for a tiny bathroom (though I suppose if it somehow increases the value of the house around the same amount and spending the money isn't an issue then go for it). 

Is there really no way to make the bathroom usable without a complete tear out project down to the studs?  Even if it is jut the toilet.  Shower in the other bath.  How many bathrooms do you have?

This might be the classic example of why everyone needs a good reliable handyman.  I have one right now.  We'll see how long that lasts.  Or learn to do it all yourself.  Seems like an invaluable skill. 

 

[El Floppo]

Yes to radiant heat.

Is there a way to expandthe bath? As already mentioned, pretty small for a master. Feel free to pm floor plan if you want. Crazy busy this week, but will try to look it over.

 

[NFL-ons]

He's a friend of my cousin, so I don't think he's taking advantage. But yeah definitely possible that he's overquoting it because he doesn't want the job. The danger of course is that I find someone else to do it and continue to go with them for the rest of the jobs in the house. Probably have about $100k in planned home renovations over the next couple years, and we've talked about adding another floor to the house down the line. Not saying he has to take every job I offer him, but figured he'd want to keep the momentum going. But I digress.

From what I've found at least in my area, is that these contractors never want to itemize their jobs because then people can do precisely what you just said. Pick and choose which parts to do themselves vs a contractor.

Maybe I am misinterpreting the point of the thread.  Was it started to #####/brag about the cost of the reno, or, was it started to figure out the most cost efficient way to get the job done? 

I guess life is different in these haughty taughty neighborhoods, but I have never known a GC who takes the time to itemize on an estimate who won't give a cost breakdown.  If you can't just tell him the truth, "Hey friend of my cousin, Iknow u are really looking out for my welfare, as opposed to wanting to buy that brand new F350 Superduty or maybe pay off your coke dealer, but your price is a little out of my budget right now.  I am planning on shopping the job.  Is there any chance you could break down your estimate for me, so that when I get these other bids, I will be comparing apples to apples, instead of apples to oranges?", then pull out your handy dandy yellow pages and call the sub contractors yourself. 

To be overly cautious in my estimates, say your whole role on the job goes from 5 minutes to 20 hours.  If you can save $5k, that would come out to .... $250/hr.  Are u making that now? 

 

[parasaurolophus]

150k. 

"That's cheap as hell"

-Otis

 

[coyote5]

Maybe I am misinterpreting the point of the thread.  Was it started to #####/brag about the cost of the reno, or, was it started to figure out the most cost efficient way to get the job done? 

I guess life is different in these haughty taughty neighborhoods, but I have never known a GC who takes the time to itemize on an estimate who won't give a cost breakdown.  If you can't just tell him the truth, "Hey friend of my cousin, Iknow u are really looking out for my welfare, as opposed to wanting to buy that brand new F350 Superduty or maybe pay off your coke dealer, but your price is a little out of my budget right now.  I am planning on shopping the job.  Is there any chance you could break down your estimate for me, so that when I get these other bids, I will be comparing apples to apples, instead of apples to oranges?", then pull out your handy dandy yellow pages and call the sub contractors yourself. 

To be overly cautious in my estimates, say your whole role on the job goes from 5 minutes to 20 hours.  If you can save $5k, that would come out to .... $250/hr.  Are u making that now? 

Well that escalated quickly

 

[Johnny Rock]

Agree with those saying go with radiant floor. Put it in the shower floor too. 

 

[Foosball God]

My master bath redo cost around 18k.  It was bigger than yours, but I used my existing tub and existing cabinets.  New glass shower, new tile, new counter tops.  Northern Virginia.

 

[Michael Brown]

Well that escalated quickly

Yeah, I mean if I'm bragging then it's either because A) someone who I thought was a friend is ripping me off, or B) I'm so stupid that I considered the possibility that $13,000 was a reasonable price to pay for this amount of work. Neither of those seems particularly brag-worthy.

 

[Michael Brown]

Rip it all out and make a walk in closet or something for like a grand.  Seems like a hell of a lot of money for a tiny bathroom (though I suppose if it somehow increases the value of the house around the same amount and spending the money isn't an issue then go for it). 

Is there really no way to make the bathroom usable without a complete tear out project down to the studs?  Even if it is jut the toilet.  Shower in the other bath.  How many bathrooms do you have?

This might be the classic example of why everyone needs a good reliable handyman.  I have one right now.  We'll see how long that lasts.  Or learn to do it all yourself.  Seems like an invaluable skill. 

Three bathrooms in the house, this one and the one downstairs are virtually the same size and layout. The other main bath in the center of the house is a good amount bigger. But I really like having this one, for the occasional wakeup in the middle of the night or if nature calls during a party or something where my other two bathrooms are otherwise occupied, I have my sanctuary.

Eventually we will be building up and putting a master suite upstairs with a big walk-in. Right now, there's enough closet space in the room that we don't need a big walk-in. And I'd really like to be able to keep using this bathroom between now and however long it takes to do the addition up top. Like I said I'm no expert, but this is definitely more than just a handyman job. The shower is disgusting, on top of being way outdated. All this baby blue tile that looks like it's been there for 40 years (probably because it has been). And that's before getting into the leaks, etc. I tried shutting the water to the toilet once and couldn't twist the lever on the side of the bowl. So I decided to get a pair of pliers and eventually a wrench to do it. I succeeded in ripping (yes, ripping) the metal in half. It's not a stretch to say that every aspect of this bathroom is on its last legs.

 

[Johnny Rock]

Rip it all out and make a walk in closet or something for like a grand.  Seems like a hell of a lot of money for a tiny bathroom (though I suppose if it somehow increases the value of the house around the same amount and spending the money isn't an issue then go for it). 

Is there really no way to make the bathroom usable without a complete tear out project down to the studs?  Even if it is jut the toilet.  Shower in the other bath.  How many bathrooms do you have?

This might be the classic example of why everyone needs a good reliable handyman.  I have one right now.  We'll see how long that lasts.  Or learn to do it all yourself.  Seems like an invaluable skill. 

Ripping out a bathroom makes no sense for his use and enjoyment of the home or for eventual resale. 

 

[NutterButter]

Seems like youve gotten by fine without that bathroom. I'd turn it into a grow room.   Now instead of dropping 12k, you'll now have a steady secondary income stream.  

 

[ROCKET]

You can't put a price on being the first one to christen the crapper.

 

[Michael Brown]

Seems like youve gotten by fine without that bathroom. I'd turn it into a grow room.   Now instead of dropping 12k, you'll now have a steady secondary income stream.  

Now see THIS is thinking outside the box. And with my Italian FIL's ties to the world of north Jersey manual labor, it shouldn't be too difficult finding a method for distribution

 

[NutterButter]

Now see THIS is thinking outside the box. And with my Italian FIL's ties to the world of north Jersey manual labor, it shouldn't be too difficult finding a method for distribution

Once you get your operation rolling, don't forget your fellow New Jerseyian that was the genesis of this idea.