Ben Roethlisberger (1 Viewer)

[Adebisi]

If there are any naysayers left, they eithero not or have not seen Ben play enough, especially the past couple years.Tend to think fantasy football=reality.Are Steeler haters.Are horrible fishermen.Do not fully know or understand the game of football.Have a QB on the team they follow who is also elite, thereby thinking that by saying Ben is elite somehow diminishes their QB's "eliteness".

@ posts like this."If you disagree with me, that just means you either don't understand football or you just hate my team."

So which one are you? I'll take a guess and say you are a #3 and a #6. Probably a #5 as well.

I'm sorry, but I am becoming more and more of the opinion that this Steelers-Patriots "hatred" is very one-sided. I don't believe Patriots fans really have any reason to "hate" the Steelers. Sorry if that comes across as disappointing.I'm also fairly certain that Brady is already considered one of the all-time greats, and that nothing Roethlisberger does can/will take away from that. Am I wrong about that?So what am I missing here? I already said that I consider him 4th best, behind only (in no particular order) Manning, Brady, and Brees. That's not adequate?

 

[Adebisi]

If there are any naysayers left, they eithero not or have not seen Ben play enough, especially the past couple years.Tend to think fantasy football=reality.Are Steeler haters.Are horrible fishermen.Do not fully know or understand the game of football.Have a QB on the team they follow who is also elite, thereby thinking that by saying Ben is elite somehow diminishes their QB's "eliteness".

@ posts like this."If you disagree with me, that just means you either don't understand football or you just hate my team."

Agreed.But it does remind me of a lot of recent Tom Brady threads as well. Think you accused me of wearing black and gold shades cause we had differing opinions.Some fans are going to stick up for their guy regardless.

I vaguely remember saying that to you, and IIRC, it was really just some good-natured ribbing. You seem to be one of the more grounded, objective Steeler fans around here.

 

[treat88]

I vaguely remember saying that to you, and IIRC, it was really just some good-natured ribbing. You seem to be one of the more grounded, objective Steeler fans around here.

Coming from a quality poster (Pats fan thing aside),.....thanks.Same.

 

[Adebisi]

I vaguely remember saying that to you, and IIRC, it was really just some good-natured ribbing. You seem to be one of the more grounded, objective Steeler fans around here.

Coming from a quality poster (Pats fan thing aside),.....thanks.Same.

 

[Frenchy Fuqua]

For the SP oldtimers you'll remember these same threads featured Tom Brady about five years ago. For some reason they all disappeared when he won his 3rd SB. Give Ben time.

 

[Adebisi]

For the SP oldtimers you'll remember these same threads featured Tom Brady about five years ago. For some reason they all disappeared when he won his 3rd SB. Give Ben time.

The Brady threads didn't go away entirely until about halfway through 2007.

 

[Frenchy Fuqua]

For the SP oldtimers you'll remember these same threads featured Tom Brady about five years ago. For some reason they all disappeared when he won his 3rd SB. Give Ben time.

The Brady threads didn't go away entirely until about halfway through 2007.

The 2nd wave of anti-Brady threads came because he cheated.

 

[Adebisi]

For the SP oldtimers you'll remember these same threads featured Tom Brady about five years ago. For some reason they all disappeared when he won his 3rd SB. Give Ben time.

The Brady threads didn't go away entirely until about halfway through 2007.

The 2nd wave of anti-Brady threads came because he cheated.

 

[SSOG]

72% completion percentage and 9.1 Y/A signal elite to me.The odd thing about Ben is that for as accurate as he is he does throw a relatively large number of interceptions.

A lot of that is just Pittsburgh's offense. It's predicated on using a high risk, high reward passing game with huge yard per completion totals to stake a lead, then leaning on a low risk, low reward running game to make sure it holds up. The passing game has a very high percentage of negative plays (sacks and picks) compared to league average, but it also has a very high percentage of positive plays. Ben's career TD% is 5.3%, which is even including some pretty bad seasons, and his career ypa of 8.0 is almost inhuman (5th best all time, behind 3 hall of famers from the '40s and '50s and Tony Romo- who runs a similar high-risk high-reward passing game, and tied with Steve Young and Kurt Warner). And this is despite the fact that he's very early in his prime, and a QB's career numbers peak at the very end of his prime.

 

[Ghost Rider]

I'm sorry, but I am becoming more and more of the opinion that this Steelers-Patriots "hatred" is very one-sided. I don't believe Patriots fans really have any reason to "hate" the Steelers. Sorry if that comes across as disappointing.

That's probably because the Patriots almost always seem to beat the Steelers in big games, so Steelers fans hate the Patriots because they are the team that always stops them from getting to the next level (in the years where NE gets further than Pitt), while Pats fans probably look at the Steelers as just another team their team beats up on.

 

[Sea Bass]

I love these threads. Haven't we concluded yet that everyone who has ever worn a Steeler jersey is either underrated or destined for the HOF...............or both.

 

[cj*]

Trent Dilfer has a superbowl ring. The team around the qb is much more important.

 

[Steelfan7]

I agree that Ben Roethlisberger doesn't have an argument for the title of best QB in the NFL... but I'd say he's definitely the best YOUNG QB in the NFL. There isn't another QB under the age of 30 I'd rather have leading my team. If every player in the league was put into a player pool and we had a Madden-style fantasy draft, I'd take Roethlisberger #1 overall.

I would easily take Matt Ryan over him... easily

I gave up on Switz' ability to see talent the second he typed that Onterrio Smith was the steal of the draft.

 

[switz]

I agree that Ben Roethlisberger doesn't have an argument for the title of best QB in the NFL... but I'd say he's definitely the best YOUNG QB in the NFL. There isn't another QB under the age of 30 I'd rather have leading my team. If every player in the league was put into a player pool and we had a Madden-style fantasy draft, I'd take Roethlisberger #1 overall.

I would easily take Matt Ryan over him... easily

I gave up on Switz' ability to see talent the second he typed that Onterrio Smith was the steal of the draft.

Instead of addressing the content of the post, attack the poster... classy.Nevermind the fact that Smith was an incredible talent. He just happened to be a headcase as well. But when he was on the field, he was a monster, there was nothing wrong with my TALENT evaluation there.

Oh and BTW, Smith called himself the SOD, not me.

Guess we can all ignore everything you write since you clearly have no clue what you're talking about

 

[Steelfan7]

I agree that Ben Roethlisberger doesn't have an argument for the title of best QB in the NFL... but I'd say he's definitely the best YOUNG QB in the NFL. There isn't another QB under the age of 30 I'd rather have leading my team. If every player in the league was put into a player pool and we had a Madden-style fantasy draft, I'd take Roethlisberger #1 overall.

I would easily take Matt Ryan over him... easily

I gave up on Switz' ability to see talent the second he typed that Onterrio Smith was the steal of the draft.

Instead of addressing the content of the post, attack the poster... classy.Nevermind the fact that Smith was an incredible talent. He just happened to be a headcase as well. But when he was on the field, he was a monster, there was nothing wrong with my TALENT evaluation there.

Oh and BTW, Smith called himself the SOD, not me.

Guess we can all ignore everything you write since you clearly have no clue what you're talking about

Where in my post did I attack you? I questioned your ability to see talent and my doubts are proven by you still thinking that Smith was some uber stud.

 

[CMU37484]

switz............liked your comment on Matt Ryan, trying to respond to it while ignoring all the mindless bickering about New England and your pal apparently hating on you because of Onterrio Smith. Seriously, who cares and why was that necessary to say?

Anyways..........curious why you'd rather have Matt Ryan honestly but I guess the question being more in a redraft, keeper, or are you just speaking on terms of actual NFL team?

As a Roethislberger owner (the reason I thought this thread might be worth a visit honestly ) I think THIS year in fantasy he's proven to be a Top 10, closer to Top 5 talent for stats and production, which is what we're all about around here.

I'd take him over anyone right now except Brees, Brady, Rodgers, and Manning in my opinion (maybe Schaub too). The BEST part is that he was drafted WAY later than all those guys, even Ryan. 10th round in my league.

I've watched almost every Steelers game and they have clearly evolved into a passing team. With Ward, Holmes, Miller, and the speedy Wallace he's got serious weapons at his disposal and a very average to below average running game so he can't depend on it as much as Matt Ryan. Plus, not unlike Atlanta, his defense is not closing out games....they're rarely killing the clock in the 4th quarter as they seem to be letting teams hang around.

 

[Chase Stuart]

72% completion percentage and 9.1 Y/A signal elite to me.The odd thing about Ben is that for as accurate as he is he does throw a relatively large number of interceptions.

A lot of that is just Pittsburgh's offense. It's predicated on using a high risk, high reward passing game with huge yard per completion totals to stake a lead, then leaning on a low risk, low reward running game to make sure it holds up. The passing game has a very high percentage of negative plays (sacks and picks) compared to league average, but it also has a very high percentage of positive plays. Ben's career TD% is 5.3%, which is even including some pretty bad seasons, and his career ypa of 8.0 is almost inhuman (5th best all time, behind 3 hall of famers from the '40s and '50s and Tony Romo- who runs a similar high-risk high-reward passing game, and tied with Steve Young and Kurt Warner). And this is despite the fact that he's very early in his prime, and a QB's career numbers peak at the very end of his prime.

Wouldn't you say it's a lot easier to have a high Y/A average if you take a sack whenever no one's open instead of throwing the ball away?

 

[Evilgrin 72]

72% completion percentage and 9.1 Y/A signal elite to me.The odd thing about Ben is that for as accurate as he is he does throw a relatively large number of interceptions.

A lot of that is just Pittsburgh's offense. It's predicated on using a high risk, high reward passing game with huge yard per completion totals to stake a lead, then leaning on a low risk, low reward running game to make sure it holds up. The passing game has a very high percentage of negative plays (sacks and picks) compared to league average, but it also has a very high percentage of positive plays. Ben's career TD% is 5.3%, which is even including some pretty bad seasons, and his career ypa of 8.0 is almost inhuman (5th best all time, behind 3 hall of famers from the '40s and '50s and Tony Romo- who runs a similar high-risk high-reward passing game, and tied with Steve Young and Kurt Warner). And this is despite the fact that he's very early in his prime, and a QB's career numbers peak at the very end of his prime.

Wouldn't you say it's a lot easier to have a high Y/A average if you take a sack whenever no one's open instead of throwing the ball away?

If he'd thrown the ball away every time he was sacked this year, he'd be rocking an 8.55 YPA. And we all know it's not possible to throw it away EVERY time.Besides which, if you (this board, not you Chase) get past numbers for once and actually just go by what you see... the high sack #s and INT #s are something you have to live with. What's not really captured in stats is how many times he avoids a pass rush, scrambles and fires a 9-yard strike for a drive-saving first down. Converting in situations that 95% of QBs would either throw the ball away or take a sack and force a punt is his greatest strength. A play like that, however, just goes down as a 9-yard completion in the stats, but means infinitely more in the flow of the game. That's what he does best.IIRC, I saw a graphic recently that showed Roethlisberger has the highest 4th quarter QB rating in the league over the past couple seasons. Add to this the fact that he's already nearly halfway to Elway's all-time 4th quarter comebacks record AND consistently has the highest QB rating post-contact and it shows that while his style may produce some ugly stats in the sack and INT% departments, it WINS games. That's the bottom line.

 

[Adebisi]

72% completion percentage and 9.1 Y/A signal elite to me.The odd thing about Ben is that for as accurate as he is he does throw a relatively large number of interceptions.

A lot of that is just Pittsburgh's offense. It's predicated on using a high risk, high reward passing game with huge yard per completion totals to stake a lead, then leaning on a low risk, low reward running game to make sure it holds up. The passing game has a very high percentage of negative plays (sacks and picks) compared to league average, but it also has a very high percentage of positive plays. Ben's career TD% is 5.3%, which is even including some pretty bad seasons, and his career ypa of 8.0 is almost inhuman (5th best all time, behind 3 hall of famers from the '40s and '50s and Tony Romo- who runs a similar high-risk high-reward passing game, and tied with Steve Young and Kurt Warner). And this is despite the fact that he's very early in his prime, and a QB's career numbers peak at the very end of his prime.

Wouldn't you say it's a lot easier to have a high Y/A average if you take a sack whenever no one's open instead of throwing the ball away?

If he'd thrown the ball away every time he was sacked this year, he'd be rocking an 8.55 YPA. And we all know it's not possible to throw it away EVERY time.Besides which, if you (this board, not you Chase) get past numbers for once and actually just go by what you see... the high sack #s and INT #s are something you have to live with. What's not really captured in stats is how many times he avoids a pass rush, scrambles and fires a 9-yard strike for a drive-saving first down. Converting in situations that 95% of QBs would either throw the ball away or take a sack and force a punt is his greatest strength. A play like that, however, just goes down as a 9-yard completion in the stats, but means infinitely more in the flow of the game. That's what he does best.IIRC, I saw a graphic recently that showed Roethlisberger has the highest 4th quarter QB rating in the league over the past couple seasons. Add to this the fact that he's already nearly halfway to Elway's all-time 4th quarter comebacks record AND consistently has the highest QB rating post-contact and it shows that while his style may produce some ugly stats in the sack and INT% departments, it WINS games. That's the bottom line.

I knew this was coming; I've read it so many times from Pittsburgh fans that I could have almost posted it myself word for word. We need to copy & paste this to each of the weekly "Ben Roethlisberger is/isn't an elite QB" threads from now on so we can save Evilgrin, Choke, and God's Brother some time.

 

[Chase Stuart]

72% completion percentage and 9.1 Y/A signal elite to me.The odd thing about Ben is that for as accurate as he is he does throw a relatively large number of interceptions.

A lot of that is just Pittsburgh's offense. It's predicated on using a high risk, high reward passing game with huge yard per completion totals to stake a lead, then leaning on a low risk, low reward running game to make sure it holds up. The passing game has a very high percentage of negative plays (sacks and picks) compared to league average, but it also has a very high percentage of positive plays. Ben's career TD% is 5.3%, which is even including some pretty bad seasons, and his career ypa of 8.0 is almost inhuman (5th best all time, behind 3 hall of famers from the '40s and '50s and Tony Romo- who runs a similar high-risk high-reward passing game, and tied with Steve Young and Kurt Warner). And this is despite the fact that he's very early in his prime, and a QB's career numbers peak at the very end of his prime.

Wouldn't you say it's a lot easier to have a high Y/A average if you take a sack whenever no one's open instead of throwing the ball away?

If he'd thrown the ball away every time he was sacked this year, he'd be rocking an 8.55 YPA. And we all know it's not possible to throw it away EVERY time.Besides which, if you (this board, not you Chase) get past numbers for once and actually just go by what you see... the high sack #s and INT #s are something you have to live with. What's not really captured in stats is how many times he avoids a pass rush, scrambles and fires a 9-yard strike for a drive-saving first down. Converting in situations that 95% of QBs would either throw the ball away or take a sack and force a punt is his greatest strength. A play like that, however, just goes down as a 9-yard completion in the stats, but means infinitely more in the flow of the game. That's what he does best.IIRC, I saw a graphic recently that showed Roethlisberger has the highest 4th quarter QB rating in the league over the past couple seasons. Add to this the fact that he's already nearly halfway to Elway's all-time 4th quarter comebacks record AND consistently has the highest QB rating post-contact and it shows that while his style may produce some ugly stats in the sack and INT% departments, it WINS games. That's the bottom line.

Roethlisberger's numbers this year are terrific. If he'd thrown the ball away every time he was sacked last year, he'd be rocking a 6.41 YPA last year.QB rating is a terrible statistic, so I don't really care what his 4th quarter QB rating is.If Ben played as well the past three years as he has this year, I don't think anyone would criticize him.

 

[Comer]

Fantasy starter................Yes

Elite...................

 

[nxmehta]

He's a winner, end of story. If you don't define two rings at the age of 27 elite, then you've got a really strange definition of "elite".

 

[switz]

Anyways..........curious why you'd rather have Matt Ryan honestly but I guess the question being more in a redraft, keeper, or are you just speaking on terms of actual NFL team?As a Roethislberger owner (the reason I thought this thread might be worth a visit honestly ) I think THIS year in fantasy he's proven to be a Top 10, closer to Top 5 talent for stats and production, which is what we're all about around here. I'd take him over anyone right now except Brees, Brady, Rodgers, and Manning in my opinion (maybe Schaub too). The BEST part is that he was drafted WAY later than all those guys, even Ryan. 10th round in my league.

I was speaking from an NFL perspective, and I see Ryan as one of those rare QBs that could enter Peyton Manning type territory.As far as FF goes, I was high on Big Ben last year, and was disappointed. This year so far he's been one of the top producers. No argument there.I always look at players from an NFL perspective first, FF second.

 

[switz]

I agree that Ben Roethlisberger doesn't have an argument for the title of best QB in the NFL... but I'd say he's definitely the best YOUNG QB in the NFL. There isn't another QB under the age of 30 I'd rather have leading my team. If every player in the league was put into a player pool and we had a Madden-style fantasy draft, I'd take Roethlisberger #1 overall.

I would easily take Matt Ryan over him... easily

I gave up on Switz' ability to see talent the second he typed that Onterrio Smith was the steal of the draft.

Instead of addressing the content of the post, attack the poster... classy.Nevermind the fact that Smith was an incredible talent. He just happened to be a headcase as well. But when he was on the field, he was a monster, there was nothing wrong with my TALENT evaluation there.

Oh and BTW, Smith called himself the SOD, not me.

Guess we can all ignore everything you write since you clearly have no clue what you're talking about

Where in my post did I attack you? I questioned your ability to see talent and my doubts are proven by you still thinking that Smith was some uber stud.

No, you didn't question it. You stated that I couldn't spot talent.

You also claim I said Smith was an uber stud, which I didn't. I said he had incredible talent, I never said he was an uberstud. And again, you're denying he had talent says more about you than me.

 

[Chase Stuart]

He's a winner, end of story. If you don't define two rings at the age of 27 elite, then you've got a really strange definition of "elite".

Is Marvel Smith one of the elite LTs in the NFL?

 

[Copeman]

He's a winner, end of story. If you don't define two rings at the age of 27 elite, then you've got a really strange definition of "elite".

Is Marvel Smith one of the elite LTs in the NFL?

 

[Comer]

He's a winner, end of story. If you don't define two rings at the age of 27 elite, then you've got a really strange definition of "elite".

Is Marvel Smith one of the elite LTs in the NFL?

Don't roll eyes he does have a point. He won't be elite until he can win a SB with an average to below average D.

 

[Copeman]

He's a winner, end of story. If you don't define two rings at the age of 27 elite, then you've got a really strange definition of "elite".

Is Marvel Smith one of the elite LTs in the NFL?

Don't roll eyes he does have a point. He won't be elite until he can win a SB with an average to below average D.

He has a point? Please tell me then, what is it? What does Marvel have to do with Ben being or not being an elite QB have to do with anything? Because he too, has 2 SB's? Is this the benchmark we are going by now?As for you second statement, that's just ludicrous. He won the last SB in spite of his defense. And if you had paid attention on his first SB, had it not been for his great play in the 3 playoff games leading up to that SB, they wouldn't have even made it there.

 

[CMU37484]

He's a winner, end of story. If you don't define two rings at the age of 27 elite, then you've got a really strange definition of "elite".

Is Marvel Smith one of the elite LTs in the NFL?

Don't roll eyes he does have a point. He won't be elite until he can win a SB with an average to below average D.

Well, based on that Drew Brees isn't "elite" either.

 

[mcintyre1]

He's a winner, end of story. If you don't define two rings at the age of 27 elite, then you've got a really strange definition of "elite".

Is Marvel Smith one of the elite LTs in the NFL?

Don't roll eyes he does have a point. He won't be elite until he can win a SB with an average to below average D.

That "above average" Defense nearly handed the last SB away by letting Fitz run wild in the 4th quarter. Put Kyle Orton on that team and Arizona is still celebrating their first Superbowl win.

 

[Comer]

He's a winner, end of story. If you don't define two rings at the age of 27 elite, then you've got a really strange definition of "elite".

Is Marvel Smith one of the elite LTs in the NFL?

Don't roll eyes he does have a point. He won't be elite until he can win a SB with an average to below average D.

That "above average" Defense nearly handed the last SB away by letting Fitz run wild in the 4th quarter. Put Kyle Orton on that team and Arizona is still celebrating their first Superbowl win.

That D ran in a TD at the end of the first half when it should have been a TD for ARI and turned momentum around but, I guess you did not watch the SB last season.

 

[mcintyre1]

Yeah, the D played well in the first half. They also nearly let the game slip away in the 4th quarter. Are you seriously not willing to give Roethlisberger credit for manufacturing the game winning TD drive? That drive, alone, qualifies him as elite.

 

[Adebisi]

Lot of ridiculous things being said by both sides at this point.

 

[Copeman]

That D ran in a TD at the end of the first half when it should have been a TD for ARI and turned momentum around but, I guess you did not watch the SB last season.

No response to the late 4th quarter drive Arizona had against the supposed vaunted Steeler defense you alluded to, that had Fitz walk into the endzone, only to be negated by the Big Ben led drive at the very end that resulted in one of the finest come from behind drives ever in SB history and one of the best TD passes in a big game you will ever see huh? I didn't think you would.

 

[Copeman]

That D ran in a TD thrown by another supposed elite QB based on my reasoning at the end of the first half when it should have been a TD for ARI and turned momentum around but, I guess you did not watch the SB last season.

fixed

 

[Chase Stuart]

I don't know if anyone remembers it, but at the end of the SB last year Marvel Smith did an excellent job pass blocking to allow the Steelers to score the game wining TD. If he missed one block there, the Steelers likely lose. Does that drive, alone, make him an elite LT?

 

[Comer]

That D ran in a TD at the end of the first half when it should have been a TD for ARI and turned momentum around but, I guess you did not watch the SB last season.

No response to the late 4th quarter drive Arizona had against the supposed vaunted Steeler defense you alluded to, that had Fitz walk into the endzone, only to be negated by the Big Ben led drive at the very end that resulted in one of the finest come from behind drives ever in SB history and one of the best TD passes in a big game you will ever see huh? I didn't think you would.

In Ben's own words,He thought when he threw the pass it was picked. Was it a great drive.............. yes. Was it against a really good D...........no. Was it a great catch......... absolutely. If Harrison does not pick that pass off it would have been a different result.

 

[mcintyre1]

I don't know if anyone remembers it, but at the end of the SB last year Marvel Smith did an excellent job pass blocking to allow the Steelers to score the game wining TD. If he missed one block there, the Steelers likely lose. Does that drive, alone, make him an elite LT?

Marvel Smith was on IR for that game.

 

[Adebisi]

The thing about 4th quarter comebacks that is often overlooked is that you have to fall behind first in order to have a shot at one.

 

[Chase Stuart]

I don't know if anyone remembers it, but at the end of the SB last year Marvel Smith did an excellent job pass blocking to allow the Steelers to score the game wining TD. If he missed one block there, the Steelers likely lose. Does that drive, alone, make him an elite LT?

Marvel Smith was on IR for that game.

Darn!

 

[Evilgrin 72]

72% completion percentage and 9.1 Y/A signal elite to me.The odd thing about Ben is that for as accurate as he is he does throw a relatively large number of interceptions.

A lot of that is just Pittsburgh's offense. It's predicated on using a high risk, high reward passing game with huge yard per completion totals to stake a lead, then leaning on a low risk, low reward running game to make sure it holds up. The passing game has a very high percentage of negative plays (sacks and picks) compared to league average, but it also has a very high percentage of positive plays. Ben's career TD% is 5.3%, which is even including some pretty bad seasons, and his career ypa of 8.0 is almost inhuman (5th best all time, behind 3 hall of famers from the '40s and '50s and Tony Romo- who runs a similar high-risk high-reward passing game, and tied with Steve Young and Kurt Warner). And this is despite the fact that he's very early in his prime, and a QB's career numbers peak at the very end of his prime.

Wouldn't you say it's a lot easier to have a high Y/A average if you take a sack whenever no one's open instead of throwing the ball away?

If he'd thrown the ball away every time he was sacked this year, he'd be rocking an 8.55 YPA. And we all know it's not possible to throw it away EVERY time.Besides which, if you (this board, not you Chase) get past numbers for once and actually just go by what you see... the high sack #s and INT #s are something you have to live with. What's not really captured in stats is how many times he avoids a pass rush, scrambles and fires a 9-yard strike for a drive-saving first down. Converting in situations that 95% of QBs would either throw the ball away or take a sack and force a punt is his greatest strength. A play like that, however, just goes down as a 9-yard completion in the stats, but means infinitely more in the flow of the game. That's what he does best.IIRC, I saw a graphic recently that showed Roethlisberger has the highest 4th quarter QB rating in the league over the past couple seasons. Add to this the fact that he's already nearly halfway to Elway's all-time 4th quarter comebacks record AND consistently has the highest QB rating post-contact and it shows that while his style may produce some ugly stats in the sack and INT% departments, it WINS games. That's the bottom line.

I knew this was coming; I've read it so many times from Pittsburgh fans that I could have almost posted it myself word for word. We need to copy & paste this to each of the weekly "Ben Roethlisberger is/isn't an elite QB" threads from now on so we can save Evilgrin, Choke, and God's Brother some time.

So true. But then - what we're saying is also true.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

72% completion percentage and 9.1 Y/A signal elite to me.The odd thing about Ben is that for as accurate as he is he does throw a relatively large number of interceptions.

A lot of that is just Pittsburgh's offense. It's predicated on using a high risk, high reward passing game with huge yard per completion totals to stake a lead, then leaning on a low risk, low reward running game to make sure it holds up. The passing game has a very high percentage of negative plays (sacks and picks) compared to league average, but it also has a very high percentage of positive plays. Ben's career TD% is 5.3%, which is even including some pretty bad seasons, and his career ypa of 8.0 is almost inhuman (5th best all time, behind 3 hall of famers from the '40s and '50s and Tony Romo- who runs a similar high-risk high-reward passing game, and tied with Steve Young and Kurt Warner). And this is despite the fact that he's very early in his prime, and a QB's career numbers peak at the very end of his prime.

Wouldn't you say it's a lot easier to have a high Y/A average if you take a sack whenever no one's open instead of throwing the ball away?

If he'd thrown the ball away every time he was sacked this year, he'd be rocking an 8.55 YPA. And we all know it's not possible to throw it away EVERY time.Besides which, if you (this board, not you Chase) get past numbers for once and actually just go by what you see... the high sack #s and INT #s are something you have to live with. What's not really captured in stats is how many times he avoids a pass rush, scrambles and fires a 9-yard strike for a drive-saving first down. Converting in situations that 95% of QBs would either throw the ball away or take a sack and force a punt is his greatest strength. A play like that, however, just goes down as a 9-yard completion in the stats, but means infinitely more in the flow of the game. That's what he does best.IIRC, I saw a graphic recently that showed Roethlisberger has the highest 4th quarter QB rating in the league over the past couple seasons. Add to this the fact that he's already nearly halfway to Elway's all-time 4th quarter comebacks record AND consistently has the highest QB rating post-contact and it shows that while his style may produce some ugly stats in the sack and INT% departments, it WINS games. That's the bottom line.

Roethlisberger's numbers this year are terrific. If he'd thrown the ball away every time he was sacked last year, he'd be rocking a 6.41 YPA last year.QB rating is a terrible statistic, so I don't really care what his 4th quarter QB rating is.If Ben played as well the past three years as he has this year, I don't think anyone would criticize him.

Whether or not you like the QB rating metric, it applies the same to every QB, so even if you find it somewhat meaningless, it does accurately reflect the fact that he plays very well late in games.

 

[Copeman]

That D ran in a TD at the end of the first half when it should have been a TD for ARI and turned momentum around but, I guess you did not watch the SB last season.

No response to the late 4th quarter drive Arizona had against the supposed vaunted Steeler defense you alluded to, that had Fitz walk into the endzone, only to be negated by the Big Ben led drive at the very end that resulted in one of the finest come from behind drives ever in SB history and one of the best TD passes in a big game you will ever see huh? I didn't think you would.

In Ben's own words,He thought when he threw the pass it was picked. I never heard this, funny being a die hard Steeler fan one would have thought I would have. Must have been sleeping when he mentioned thatWas it a great drive.............. yes. Was it against a really good D...........no. Arizona defense was playing great all during the playoff run. No they weren't the best, but they were playing at a high level. Also, this pass was thrown in the biggest most pressure filled moment of the season. If that doesn't tell you something, I don't know what else to say.Was it a great catch......... absolutely. If Harrison does not pick that pass off it would have been a different result.if my aunt were a dude, she'd be my uncle

 

[Ghost Rider]

People, people, I hate to play the semantics game, but it is a PASSER rating, not a QB rating.

 

[mcintyre1]

That D ran in a TD at the end of the first half when it should have been a TD for ARI and turned momentum around but, I guess you did not watch the SB last season.

No response to the late 4th quarter drive Arizona had against the supposed vaunted Steeler defense you alluded to, that had Fitz walk into the endzone, only to be negated by the Big Ben led drive at the very end that resulted in one of the finest come from behind drives ever in SB history and one of the best TD passes in a big game you will ever see huh? I didn't think you would.

In Ben's own words,He thought when he threw the pass it was picked. Was it a great drive.............. yes. Was it against a really good D...........no. Was it a great catch......... absolutely. If Harrison does not pick that pass off it would have been a different result.

Ben's throw before the winning throw was an even better pass. That went right through Holmes's hands.

 

[Ghost Rider]

If Harrison does not pick that pass off it would have been a different result.

There is no way you can say that. The game does not play out exactly the same way if Arizona leads 14-10 at the half instead of trailing 17-7. We have no idea what would have happened had the score been different at the half. Are you really that naive?

 

[Steeler]

I don't know if anyone remembers it, but at the end of the SB last year Marvel Smith did an excellent job pass blocking to allow the Steelers to score the game wining TD. If he missed one block there, the Steelers likely lose. Does that drive, alone, make him an elite LT?

For reals?!?!?

 

[Jeremy]

I think he's become elite. I don't think he was one when "he won" his first SB, though. I'd say the same thing about Brady. Lot of factors go into winning a SB beyond the QB.

 

[Frenchy Fuqua]

I don't know if anyone remembers it, but at the end of the SB last year Marvel Smith did an excellent job pass blocking to allow the Steelers to score the game wining TD. If he missed one block there, the Steelers likely lose. Does that drive, alone, make him an elite LT?

Marvel Smith was on IR for that game.

LOL. It pays to watch the games, particularly the Super Bowl.

 

[Tau837]

He won the last SB in spite of his defense.

Was this the Super Bowl when the defense picked off the other team in the end zone and returned it the length of the field for a TD, creating a 10-14 point swing?