Ben Roethlisberger (1 Viewer)

[Copeman]

He won the last SB in spite of his defense.

Was this the Super Bowl when the defense picked off the other team in the end zone and returned it the length of the field for a TD, creating a 10-14 point swing?

I along with others have already addressed this. Please try and keep up.

 

[CrossEyed]

I don't know if anyone remembers it, but at the end of the SB last year Marvel Smith did an excellent job pass blocking to allow the Steelers to score the game wining TD. If he missed one block there, the Steelers likely lose. Does that drive, alone, make him an elite LT?

Marvel Smith was on IR for that game.

 

[Drunken Cowboy]

He's a winner, end of story. If you don't define two rings at the age of 27 elite, then you've got a really strange definition of "elite".

Is Marvel Smith one of the elite LTs in the NFL?

As you very well know, QB's are judged by wins much more so than any other position. How many QB's have won multiple superbowls as a starter and are not considered elite? If he wins a 3rd before he retires I don't think there can really be any argument.

 

[Chase Stuart]

He's a winner, end of story. If you don't define two rings at the age of 27 elite, then you've got a really strange definition of "elite".

Is Marvel Smith one of the elite LTs in the NFL?

As you very well know, QB's are judged by wins much more so than any other position. How many QB's have won multiple superbowls as a starter and are not considered elite? If he wins a 3rd before he retires I don't think there can really be any argument.

Judged by wins... by you. Lots of people don't think a QB is more responsible for wins and losses than the other 40+ players on the active roster.

 

[Copeman]

He's a winner, end of story. If you don't define two rings at the age of 27 elite, then you've got a really strange definition of "elite".

Is Marvel Smith one of the elite LTs in the NFL?

As you very well know, QB's are judged by wins much more so than any other position. How many QB's have won multiple superbowls as a starter and are not considered elite? If he wins a 3rd before he retires I don't think there can really be any argument.

Judged by wins... by you. Lots of people don't think a QB is more responsible for wins and losses than the other 40+ players on the active roster.

 

[Chase Stuart]

He's a winner, end of story. If you don't define two rings at the age of 27 elite, then you've got a really strange definition of "elite".

Is Marvel Smith one of the elite LTs in the NFL?

As you very well know, QB's are judged by wins much more so than any other position. How many QB's have won multiple superbowls as a starter and are not considered elite? If he wins a 3rd before he retires I don't think there can really be any argument.

Judged by wins... by you. Lots of people don't think a QB is more responsible for wins and losses than the other 40+ players on the active roster.

It's not like we have a lack of stats by which to judge QBs. If there's any position where we don't need to look at wins and losses to judge performance, it's QB. Defensive players? It makes more sense. Linemen? Maybe. But for QBs, we've got more data than any other position.

 

[Copeman]

It's not like we have a lack of stats by which to judge QBs. If there's any position where we don't need to look at wins and losses to judge performance, it's QB. Defensive players? It makes more sense. Linemen? Maybe. But for QBs, we've got more data than any other position.

Agreed. But how does this point in any way change this topic?

 

[Frenchy Fuqua]

Since wins, losses playoffs and Super Bowls mean nothing here.

Roethlisberger vs. Manning thru age 27 (Ben still has a few games)

Completion %

Ben 63.4%

Peyton 62.9%

TD %

Ben 5.3%

Peyton 4.9%

INT %

Ben 3.6%

Peyton 3.3%

YPA

Ben 7.98

Peyton 7.36

QB Rating

Ben 90.9

Peyton 88.1

 

[Copeman]

Since wins, losses playoffs and Super Bowls mean nothing here.

Roethlisberger vs. Manning thru age 27 (Ben still has a few games)

Completion %

Ben 63.4%

Peyton 62.9%

TD %

Ben 5.3%

Peyton 4.9%

INT %

Ben 3.6%

Peyton 3.3%

YPA

Ben 7.98

Peyton 7.36

QB Rating

Ben 90.9

Peyton 88.1

These are football stats. With alot of the guys on this board its all about the glamour or "fantasy football" stats. They won't understand all of this stuff you listed.

 

[switz]

Since wins, losses playoffs and Super Bowls mean nothing here.

Roethlisberger vs. Manning thru age 27 (Ben still has a few games)

Completion %

Ben 63.4%

Peyton 62.9%

TD %

Ben 5.3%

Peyton 4.9%

INT %

Ben 3.6%

Peyton 3.3%

YPA

Ben 7.98

Peyton 7.36

QB Rating

Ben 90.9

Peyton 88.1

With Manning having almost twice as many attempts... in fact, Roethlisberger in his career hasn't had as many pass attempts in a season as Manning did each of his seasons through age 27. So you're comparison is apples and oranges. And only once in his career has Roethlisberger thrown more TDs than Manning did as a rookie QB on a terrible team.

That above post is a serious case of spinning stats

Why don't we just compare THIS SEASON so far.....

 

[aburt19]

He's a winner, end of story. If you don't define two rings at the age of 27 elite, then you've got a really strange definition of "elite".

Is Marvel Smith one of the elite LTs in the NFL?

As you very well know, QB's are judged by wins much more so than any other position. How many QB's have won multiple superbowls as a starter and are not considered elite? If he wins a 3rd before he retires I don't think there can really be any argument.

Judged by wins... by you. Lots of people don't think a QB is more responsible for wins and losses than the other 40+ players on the active roster.

I don't think that QB should be judged solely on wins. But I would disagree with the statement "than the other 40+ players on the active roster". I youchange that to the top 25 players on the team, including the other 21 starters, I might agree with that. I have trouble believing that the starting QB isnot more responsible than the third string QB.

 

[Copeman]

Since wins, losses playoffs and Super Bowls mean nothing here.

Roethlisberger vs. Manning thru age 27 (Ben still has a few games)

Completion %

Ben 63.4%

Peyton 62.9%

TD %

Ben 5.3%

Peyton 4.9%

INT %

Ben 3.6%

Peyton 3.3%

YPA

Ben 7.98

Peyton 7.36

QB Rating

Ben 90.9

Peyton 88.1

With Manning having almost twice as many attempts... in fact, Roethlisberger in his career hasn't had as many pass attempts in a season as Manning did each of his seasons through age 27. So you're comparison is apples and oranges. And only once in his career has Roethlisberger thrown more TDs than Manning did as a rookie QB on a terrible team.

That above post is a serious case of spinning stats

I think you're missing the point. He's really not comparing Ben to Manning per se (in other words who is better among the two). He's merely stating the football stats are nearly identical among the two, and only one is considered as "elite" by some of you, while the other is not, eventhough that other guy has more SB wins and a better record in bigger games.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Since wins, losses playoffs and Super Bowls mean nothing here.

Roethlisberger vs. Manning thru age 27 (Ben still has a few games)

Completion %

Ben 63.4%

Peyton 62.9%

TD %

Ben 5.3%

Peyton 4.9%

INT %

Ben 3.6%

Peyton 3.3%

YPA

Ben 7.98

Peyton 7.36

QB Rating

Ben 90.9

Peyton 88.1

These are football stats. With alot of the guys on this board its all about the glamour or "fantasy football" stats. They won't understand all of this stuff you listed.

Not sure how relevant any of this is. I was under the impression we were talking about Roethlisberger now, not his career. In that case, I'd care about his stats last year (bad) and this year (great). And who cares about how Peyton Manning was 10 years ago?

 

[DawgPoundNJ]

Big Ben's definitely overtaken Manning in the goober factor as well.

 

[switz]

I think you're missing the point. He's really not comparing Ben to Manning per se (in other words who is better among the two). He's merely stating the football stats are nearly identical among the two, and only one is considered as "elite" by some of you, while the other is not, even though that other guy has more SB wins and a better record in bigger games.

Except as I pointed out, their stats aren't really "nearly identical" when you take them out of the context of attempts.In other words, if you want to play the game he's playing, Ronnie Brown has a career passer rating of 126.4, has never thrown an INT, I guess since his stats are better, he's elite? Hyperbole? Yes, but it illustrates the flaw in the stats being used to try to prove "eliteness"...ETA - per pro-football-reference.com, here are player's with similar careers so far to Roethlisberger:Career Eli Manning, Jay Fiedler, David Garrard, David Carr, Eric Hipple, Scott Mitchell, Bill Nelsen, Jake Delhomme, Carson Palmer, Tony RomoNone of them are "elite". As in the case with some, Ben may become elite at some point in time, but there was a point in time we all thought Carson Palmer would join the elite, and it didn't happen.

 

[fred_1_15301]

He's a winner, end of story. If you don't define two rings at the age of 27 elite, then you've got a really strange definition of "elite".

Is Marvel Smith one of the elite LTs in the NFL?

Don't roll eyes he does have a point. He won't be elite until he can win a SB with an average to below average D.

Not even getting into whether or not I consider him elite, your logic is ridiculous. Having a good defense should not preclude a qb from reaching elite status. It shouldn't even influence your determination.

 

[Dought Man]

Big Ben's definitely overtaken Manning in the goober factor as well.

yeah, but Manning is "likable goober" which is why he gets all the cherry commercial deals. Ben gives off that, "I stare into people's windows at night" vibe when you see him off the field, so he only gets stuff like Fathead and smaller ads.

 

[switz]

He's a winner, end of story. If you don't define two rings at the age of 27 elite, then you've got a really strange definition of "elite".

Is Marvel Smith one of the elite LTs in the NFL?

Don't roll eyes he does have a point. He won't be elite until he can win a SB with an average to below average D.

Not even getting into whether or not I consider him elite, your logic is ridiculous. Having a good defense should not preclude a qb from reaching elite status. It shouldn't even influence your determination.

Winning a SB doesn't make a QB elite at all, regardless of whether they have a good defense or not.

 

[steelcityman]

Ben's top 5, is that elite? I guess so. To say he isnt top 5, you hate the Steelers, hate Ben personally, or are an ### clown.

 

[fred_1_15301]

That D ran in a TD at the end of the first half when it should have been a TD for ARI and turned momentum around but, I guess you did not watch the SB last season.

No response to the late 4th quarter drive Arizona had against the supposed vaunted Steeler defense you alluded to, that had Fitz walk into the endzone, only to be negated by the Big Ben led drive at the very end that resulted in one of the finest come from behind drives ever in SB history and one of the best TD passes in a big game you will ever see huh? I didn't think you would.

In Ben's own words,He thought when he threw the pass it was picked. Was it a great drive.............. yes. Was it against a really good D...........no. Was it a great catch......... absolutely. If Harrison does not pick that pass off it would have been a different result.

Completely hypothetical. You're not using a lot of logic in this thread.

 

[Copeman]

I think you're missing the point. He's really not comparing Ben to Manning per se (in other words who is better among the two). He's merely stating the football stats are nearly identical among the two, and only one is considered as "elite" by some of you, while the other is not, even though that other guy has more SB wins and a better record in bigger games.

Except as I pointed out, their stats aren't really "nearly identical" when you take them out of the context of attempts.In other words, if you want to play the game he's playing, Ronnie Brown has a career passer rating of 126.4, has never thrown an INT, I guess since his stats are better, he's elite? Hyperbole? Yes, but it illustrates the flaw in the stats being used to try to prove "eliteness"...

How would one go about discussing "if a QB has become elite" without using some kind of statistical evidence in regards to said QB in relation to another perceived "elite" QB? How does one become elite? It doesn't happen overnight. You have to go back in their history a little bit.People discuss how a QB throws for 40 TD's year in and year out and is elite, yet now we can't talk football stats?

 

[fred_1_15301]

Since wins, losses playoffs and Super Bowls mean nothing here.

Roethlisberger vs. Manning thru age 27 (Ben still has a few games)

Completion %

Ben 63.4%

Peyton 62.9%

TD %

Ben 5.3%

Peyton 4.9%

INT %

Ben 3.6%

Peyton 3.3%

YPA

Ben 7.98

Peyton 7.36

QB Rating

Ben 90.9

Peyton 88.1

With Manning having almost twice as many attempts... in fact, Roethlisberger in his career hasn't had as many pass attempts in a season as Manning did each of his seasons through age 27. So you're comparison is apples and oranges. And only once in his career has Roethlisberger thrown more TDs than Manning did as a rookie QB on a terrible team.

That above post is a serious case of spinning stats

Why don't we just compare THIS SEASON so far.....

Gotta agree with Switz on this one. Attempts is a key stat that was left out in this analysis. Lets not even try to compare Ben to Peyton. Lets just not go there. Peyton is God as far as I'm concerned and there is nobody even on the same level (not even Brady or Brees).

 

[Frenchy Fuqua]

Since wins, losses playoffs and Super Bowls mean nothing here.

Roethlisberger vs. Manning thru age 27 (Ben still has a few games)

Completion %

Ben 63.4%

Peyton 62.9%

TD %

Ben 5.3%

Peyton 4.9%

INT %

Ben 3.6%

Peyton 3.3%

YPA

Ben 7.98

Peyton 7.36

QB Rating

Ben 90.9

Peyton 88.1

With Manning having almost twice as many attempts... in fact, Roethlisberger in his career hasn't had as many pass attempts in a season as Manning did each of his seasons through age 27. So you're comparison is apples and oranges. And only once in his career has Roethlisberger thrown more TDs than Manning did as a rookie QB on a terrible team.

That above post is a serious case of spinning stats

Why don't we just compare THIS SEASON so far.....

So in grand the world of Switz quantity of stats is superior to quality of stats. Spoken like a true fantasy footballer.

 

[switz]

Since wins, losses playoffs and Super Bowls mean nothing here.

Roethlisberger vs. Manning thru age 27 (Ben still has a few games)

Completion %

Ben 63.4%

Peyton 62.9%

TD %

Ben 5.3%

Peyton 4.9%

INT %

Ben 3.6%

Peyton 3.3%

YPA

Ben 7.98

Peyton 7.36

QB Rating

Ben 90.9

Peyton 88.1

With Manning having almost twice as many attempts... in fact, Roethlisberger in his career hasn't had as many pass attempts in a season as Manning did each of his seasons through age 27. So you're comparison is apples and oranges. And only once in his career has Roethlisberger thrown more TDs than Manning did as a rookie QB on a terrible team.

That above post is a serious case of spinning stats

Why don't we just compare THIS SEASON so far.....

So in grand the world of Switz quantity of stats is superior to quality of stats. Spoken like a true fantasy footballer.

No, that's not what I said. Try re-reading. Having a 100% completion rate on 1 pass is not as impressive as a 100% completion rate on five passes, is it?

 

[fred_1_15301]

Since wins, losses playoffs and Super Bowls mean nothing here.

Roethlisberger vs. Manning thru age 27 (Ben still has a few games)

Completion %

Ben 63.4%

Peyton 62.9%

TD %

Ben 5.3%

Peyton 4.9%

INT %

Ben 3.6%

Peyton 3.3%

YPA

Ben 7.98

Peyton 7.36

QB Rating

Ben 90.9

Peyton 88.1

With Manning having almost twice as many attempts... in fact, Roethlisberger in his career hasn't had as many pass attempts in a season as Manning did each of his seasons through age 27. So you're comparison is apples and oranges. And only once in his career has Roethlisberger thrown more TDs than Manning did as a rookie QB on a terrible team.

That above post is a serious case of spinning stats

Why don't we just compare THIS SEASON so far.....

So in grand the world of Switz quantity of stats is superior to quality of stats. Spoken like a true fantasy footballer.

The stats are very comparable and Manning has done it with many more attempts. I think Switz's point is very valid here and I'm a Ben fan...............

 

[switz]

Ben's top 5, is that elite? I guess so. To say he isnt top 5, you hate the Steelers, hate Ben personally, or are an ### clown.

I have Ben as top-10, borderline but not quite top-5, I don't hate the Steelers, I don't hate Ben, and I'm not a clown...

 

[fred_1_15301]

Ben's top 5, is that elite? I guess so. To say he isnt top 5, you hate the Steelers, hate Ben personally, or are an ### clown.

I have Ben as top-10, borderline but not quite top-5, I don't hate the Steelers, I don't hate Ben, and I'm not a clown...

Not going to bash your list but I'm curious who is in your top 5? I'll make a guess......Manning, Brady, Brees, Ryan and Rivers?

 

[NorrisB]

Since wins, losses playoffs and Super Bowls mean nothing here.

Roethlisberger vs. Manning thru age 27 (Ben still has a few games)

Completion %

Ben 63.4%

Peyton 62.9%

TD %

Ben 5.3%

Peyton 4.9%

INT %

Ben 3.6%

Peyton 3.3%

YPA

Ben 7.98

Peyton 7.36

QB Rating

Ben 90.9

Peyton 88.1

These are football stats. With alot of the guys on this board its all about the glamour or "fantasy football" stats. They won't understand all of this stuff you listed.

How about total yards and TDs and att/gm those are conveniently left out. I'd bet Ben's att/gm average are somewhere around 25-30 in the league

 

[switz]

Ben's top 5, is that elite? I guess so. To say he isnt top 5, you hate the Steelers, hate Ben personally, or are an ### clown.

I have Ben as top-10, borderline but not quite top-5, I don't hate the Steelers, I don't hate Ben, and I'm not a clown...

Not going to bash your list but I'm curious who is in your top 5? I'll make a guess......Manning, Brady, Brees, Ryan and Rivers?

I agree that Ben is a good QB, but was surprised that there are others out there who don't think he is ... While I wouldn't lump him in with Brady, Favre, Brees, or Manning (peyton), I think he is in the next tier, and though I would take Ryan, Eli, and maybe Rivers over him, there's no way anyone could legitimately say he's not a good QB. I can see an argument for top-5, but there's no argument that he's not top-10 in today's NFL.

 

[Chase Stuart]

I think everyone agrees that Brees/Manning/Brady belong in their own tier. I'd probably put Rivers and maybe Ryan in the next tier. After that, I think there's a very large group of QBs of comparable quality -- Warner, Romo, Rodgers, Cutler, McNabb, Manning, Flacco and Schaub. Roethlisberger is in that tier, IMO. At this point, we might have to say that Kyle Orton is, too.

If I had to take a QB for the rest of the season, I'd definitely take the first five guys ahead of Ben. If I trusted that Roethlisberger would play at the level he's been at so far this year for the remainder of the year, of course he'd be in that group as well. But you could say the same thing about Orton or Eli or Schaub, who are playing just as elite football and Roethlisberger is so far. Since we can't guarantee that performance, I'd simply put Ben in that QB6-15 range. Not elite, but certainly nothing bad. And you can obviously win the Super Bowl with a QB with that sort of ability.

Another nice improvement in Roethlisberger's game this season; he has only 3 fumbles so far in '09, after having 23 in '07-'08 and leading the league in fumbles in '08.

 

[Copeman]

Ugh.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

I've been one of the largest Big Ben detractors out there, but if he keeps playing like this for the next 3 or so years I'll glady eat me words.

That said, as far as being considered elite goes for me the attempt to get to that status starts now for him. I'm not convinced that he did anything in the last 5 years that any of the league's 2nd tier QBs wouldn't have accomplished. Yeah, that 75% win percentage or whatever sounds great at first glance, until you notice that the defense held their opponents to below 20 points in a startling 65% of those games (and often much lower).

For comparison's sake, here are the records of some of the other guys that have come up in games in which their defense gave up sub 20 points.

Jay Cutler

14-1 (93.3% win pct)

Philip Rivers

26-3 (90%)

Kyle Orton

22-1 (96%)

It's not hard to win with a great defense.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

As for you second statement, that's just ludicrous. He won the last SB in spite of his defense.

Pot, meet kettle.That may be one of the more absurd statements I've seen on this board. The Steelers' defense gave up 16 net points to the Cards in that game (allowed 23, scored 7 on their own on the INT return). Only twice all year in 19 tries did a defense give up fewer net points than that to the Cardinals, and one of those came in a blizzard.For comparison's sake, here are the quarterbacks of the teams who put up enough points against the Cardinals in 2008 to overcome 16 net points allowed by their defense:Jason CampbellBrett FavreTrent EdwardsTony RomoJake DelhommeShaun HillSeneca WallaceEli ManningDonovan McnabbGus FrerroteTom BradySeneca Wallace (again)Matt RyanDonovan Mcnabb (again)In only 5 out of Arizona's 20 games in 2008 did a quarterback fail to lead his team to more than the 16 points that Roethlisberger had to deliver in the Super Bowl to win that game (and 2 of those 5 were the Rams, which shouldn't even count). He's not exactly fighting against all odds there...

 

[Tau837]

I've been one of the largest Big Ben detractors out there, but if he keeps playing like this for the next 3 or so years I'll glady eat me words.That said, as far as being considered elite goes for me the attempt to get to that status starts now for him. I'm not convinced that he did anything in the last 5 years that any of the league's 2nd tier QBs wouldn't have accomplished. Yeah, that 75% win percentage or whatever sounds great at first glance, until you notice that the defense held their opponents to below 20 points in a startling 65% of those games (and often much lower).For comparison's sake, here are the records of some of the other guys that have come up in games in which their defense gave up sub 20 points.Jay Cutler14-1 (93.3% win pct)Philip Rivers26-3 (90%)Kyle Orton22-1 (96%)It's not hard to win with a great defense.

 

[Tau837]

As for you second statement, that's just ludicrous. He won the last SB in spite of his defense.

Pot, meet kettle.That may be one of the more absurd statements I've seen on this board. The Steelers' defense gave up 16 net points to the Cards in that game (allowed 23, scored 7 on their own on the INT return). Only twice all year in 19 tries did a defense give up fewer net points than that to the Cardinals, and one of those came in a blizzard.For comparison's sake, here are the quarterbacks of the teams who put up enough points against the Cardinals in 2008 to overcome 16 net points allowed by their defense:Jason CampbellBrett FavreTrent EdwardsTony RomoJake DelhommeShaun HillSeneca WallaceEli ManningDonovan McnabbGus FrerroteTom BradySeneca Wallace (again)Matt RyanDonovan Mcnabb (again)In only 5 out of Arizona's other 20 games in 2008 did a quarterback fail to lead his team to more than the 16 points that Roethlisberger had to deliver in the Super Bowl to win that game (and 2 of those 5 were the Rams, which shouldn't even count). He's not exactly fighting against all odds there...

Wow, Free BaGeL is on fire!

 

[Tau837]

He won the last SB in spite of his defense.

Was this the Super Bowl when the defense picked off the other team in the end zone and returned it the length of the field for a TD, creating a 10-14 point swing?

I along with others have already addressed this. Please try and keep up.

No one has addressed it in such a way as to justify the bolded. Maybe you want to try again?

 

[Copeman]

He won the last SB in spite of his defense.

Was this the Super Bowl when the defense picked off the other team in the end zone and returned it the length of the field for a TD, creating a 10-14 point swing?

I along with others have already addressed this. Please try and keep up.

No one has addressed it in such a way as to justify the bolded. Maybe you want to try again?

Sure I will address it again, as many others here have said the same thing. I merely stated in spite of regarding the defense and how they blew the lead late in the game, only to have Big Ben generate what many people including NFL writers and broadcaster to say....that the last drive was pretty much one of the best if not the best they had ever seen in the SB. And the last pass (2 passes actually) to Santonio sealed the deal. Under all the pressure in a big game, something he has done countless times in regular season games as well as meaningful games.The list of QB's that FreebaGel made, has 2 QB's that have even come close to Ben's accomplishments, and they are and have been considered "elite".

Are you really going to compare Seneca Wallace, Jason Campbell, Gus Frerotte, et al....to Big Ben? Really? All credibility has been lost as soon as I saw that. I never saw such ticky tack stat comparisons in my life.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

If there are any naysayers left, they eithero not or have not seen Ben play enough, especially the past couple years.Tend to think fantasy football=reality.Are Steeler haters.Are horrible fishermen.Do not fully know or understand the game of football.Have a QB on the team they follow who is also elite, thereby thinking that by saying Ben is elite somehow diminishes their QB's "eliteness".

This post is right on the

 

[Fear & Loathing]

He's a winner, end of story. If you don't define two rings at the age of 27 elite, then you've got a really strange definition of "elite".

Is Marvel Smith one of the elite LTs in the NFL?

As you very well know, QB's are judged by wins much more so than any other position. How many QB's have won multiple superbowls as a starter and are not considered elite? If he wins a 3rd before he retires I don't think there can really be any argument.

Judged by wins... by you. Lots of people don't think a QB is more responsible for wins and losses than the other 40+ players on the active roster.

Those people are just flat-out wrong.

 

[ScottNorwood]

The guy is a winner. I love his moxy on 4th and inches situations.

 

[Frenchy Fuqua]

Since wins, losses playoffs and Super Bowls mean nothing here.

Roethlisberger vs. Manning thru age 27 (Ben still has a few games)

Completion %

Ben 63.4%

Peyton 62.9%

TD %

Ben 5.3%

Peyton 4.9%

INT %

Ben 3.6%

Peyton 3.3%

YPA

Ben 7.98

Peyton 7.36

QB Rating

Ben 90.9

Peyton 88.1

These are football stats. With alot of the guys on this board its all about the glamour or "fantasy football" stats. They won't understand all of this stuff you listed.

Not sure how relevant any of this is. I was under the impression we were talking about Roethlisberger now, not his career. In that case, I'd care about his stats last year (bad) and this year (great). And who cares about how Peyton Manning was 10 years ago?

OK

With a completion percentage over 70 (72.5) and a yards-per-attempt average over 9.0 (9.12), Roethlisberger is doing what only three other quarterbacks have ever done over the course of a complete season – seasons that were high points of each Hall of Famer’s career.

* In 1945, Sammy Baugh completed 70.3 percent of his passes and averaged 9.2 yards per attempt, but he and the Washington Redskins lost the NFL Championship game, 15-14, on the frozen field of the Cleveland Rams. It didn’t help that an early Baugh pass hit his goal post for a safety.

* The feat wasn’t accomplished again until 1989, when Roethlisberger’s idol, Joe Montana, completed 70.2 percent of his passes and averaged 9.1 yards per attempt. He won a ring and both the league and Super Bowl MVP awards that year.

* In 1994, Steve Young completed 70.3 percent of his passes and averaged 9.2 yards per attempt. He also won a ring and the league and Super Bowl MVP awards.

Link

 

[FreeBaGeL]

He won the last SB in spite of his defense.

Was this the Super Bowl when the defense picked off the other team in the end zone and returned it the length of the field for a TD, creating a 10-14 point swing?

I along with others have already addressed this. Please try and keep up.

No one has addressed it in such a way as to justify the bolded. Maybe you want to try again?

Sure I will address it again, as many others here have said the same thing. I merely stated in spite of regarding the defense and how they blew the lead late in the game, only to have Big Ben generate what many people including NFL writers and broadcaster to say....that the last drive was pretty much one of the best if not the best they had ever seen in the SB. And the last pass (2 passes actually) to Santonio sealed the deal. Under all the pressure in a big game, something he has done countless times in regular season games as well as meaningful games.The list of QB's that FreebaGel made, has 2 QB's that have even come close to Ben's accomplishments, and they are and have been considered "elite".

Are you really going to compare Seneca Wallace, Jason Campbell, Gus Frerotte, et al....to Big Ben? Really? All credibility has been lost as soon as I saw that. I never saw such ticky tack stat comparisons in my life.

Please read it again, in context this time. No one else seems to be having a problem understanding it.If you think that the intent of that post was to say that Seneca Wallace is as good a quarterback as Roethlisberger, then I don't know what else I can say. That's the exact opposite of the point.

The point was that you (ridiculously) said that the Steelers and Roethlisberger won last year's quarterback in SPITE of a defense that gave up a net 16 points to one of the most prolific offenses in the league. As a measure of how absurd that statement was, I showed you that even some of the worst quarterbacks in the league had no problem scoring 17+ offensive points against the Cardinals, which is what the Steeler's offense was tasked with doing in the Super Bowl. They had it easy because of the defense, not in spite of it.

Yeah, that was a great drive at the end of the game by Big Ben. But with an offense that put up 13 offensive points against the Cardinals for the first 57 minutes, for most teams with normal defenses that last minute drive would have been irrelevant because they would have been down by 2-3 scores at that point.

 

[CrossEyed]

Is there anything better than a Browns fan trying to find ways to criticize Roethlisberger?

 

[Bojang0301]

A lot of banter about nothing in this thread. It's really gone downhill. Seriously breaking down % of stats through Manning and Ben through the age of 27... and you guys wonder why announcers will state stupid facts like a player being the first one since October 24, 1963 to tear a whole in his pants and still run for over 3.8 yards per carry. Blah, blah, blah. You arn't winning anyone over by saying your stats are better than theirs or that they don't understand "football" numbers. You want a fact I'll give you some facts: Big Ben is a hard nosed QB who will lead the team in crunch time and win you games. He makes some awful mistakes but he also makes plays no other QB would be able to make (insert Brady or Manning(s) or Rivers or Brees here cause they can't shake DL's and LB's off them like this guy, they can't). He has two superbowl rings and I'll be damned if I would want any other QB wearing Steeler black and gold. Theres your facts.

 

[Copeman]

The point was that you (ridiculously) said that the Steelers and Roethlisberger won last year's quarterback in SPITE of a defense that gave up a net 16 points to one of the most prolific offenses in the league. As a measure of how absurd that statement was, I showed you that even some of the worst quarterbacks in the league had no problem scoring 17+ offensive points against the Cardinals, which is what the Steeler's offense was tasked with doing in the Super Bowl. They had it easy because of the defense, not in spite of it.

I already stated that the "in spite" was in direct reference to the last few minutes of the game when Arizona took the lead on a Steelers defensive blown coverage, and Big Ben orchestrated what many people, including sports writers and on air analysts, said is one of the most if not THE most impressive drives in SB history.It appears that you are the one that is not reading/comprehending.You showed me that some QB's scored as many points on the Cards. That means nothing to me. We are discussing whether or not Ben is "elite" One cannot even be in the that discussion without being/winning the Super Bowl. Ben did that. He has won it twice. The others (minus the couple I already said) are nothing close.If you think just any QB can orchestrate that kind of comeback win you are very naive. In his first SB where admittingly he was not very good, had it not been for his exceptional play in the 3 playoff games that got the Steelers there, they wouldn't have even made it.Also, as I said, it was well known and discussed that as of the playoffs/SB last year, the Cards defense had started playing very well. That was widely known.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Since wins, losses playoffs and Super Bowls mean nothing here.

Roethlisberger vs. Manning thru age 27 (Ben still has a few games)

Completion %

Ben 63.4%

Peyton 62.9%

TD %

Ben 5.3%

Peyton 4.9%

INT %

Ben 3.6%

Peyton 3.3%

YPA

Ben 7.98

Peyton 7.36

QB Rating

Ben 90.9

Peyton 88.1

These are football stats. With alot of the guys on this board its all about the glamour or "fantasy football" stats. They won't understand all of this stuff you listed.

Not sure how relevant any of this is. I was under the impression we were talking about Roethlisberger now, not his career. In that case, I'd care about his stats last year (bad) and this year (great). And who cares about how Peyton Manning was 10 years ago?

OK

With a completion percentage over 70 (72.5) and a yards-per-attempt average over 9.0 (9.12), Roethlisberger is doing what only three other quarterbacks have ever done over the course of a complete season – seasons that were high points of each Hall of Famer’s career.

* In 1945, Sammy Baugh completed 70.3 percent of his passes and averaged 9.2 yards per attempt, but he and the Washington Redskins lost the NFL Championship game, 15-14, on the frozen field of the Cleveland Rams. It didn’t help that an early Baugh pass hit his goal post for a safety.

* The feat wasn’t accomplished again until 1989, when Roethlisberger’s idol, Joe Montana, completed 70.2 percent of his passes and averaged 9.1 yards per attempt. He won a ring and both the league and Super Bowl MVP awards that year.

* In 1994, Steve Young completed 70.3 percent of his passes and averaged 9.2 yards per attempt. He also won a ring and the league and Super Bowl MVP awards.

Link

This illustrates my only real point here... for years I've been pimping this guy and the detractors routinely pointed to the low number of attempts as a major influence on his high comp% and YPA stats. I continually argued that he came from a "fun 'n' gun" type offense in college and was equipped to play that kind of game, and surmised that his stats wouldn't suffer nearly as precipitous a drop with increased attempts as many claimed. Finally, this season is bearing that out.I'm burned out on arguing elite/not elite. Bottom line is that there's no more than 2 QBs (and maybe less) in this league I would trade Ben for, and that makes him elite in my book. Many may disagree and call me a homer, but the truth of the matter is, being a homer has nothing to do with it. I hated every QB they had between Bradshaw and Roethlisberger and they were ALL Steelers. I know what I'm watching. I know the difference I feel when the Steelers are down 17-13 with the ball on their own 20 with 1:48 and 1 time out. In the past, it was about time to switch to a Gilligan's Island re-run and wait for next week. Now, I not only hope Pittsburgh can pull out a win, I actually EXPECT it to happen. That's because of one man and one man alone - Ben Roethlisberger.

 

[Jman]

The epic c0ckgobbling in this thread has reached Madden/Farve proportions.

He's going to have to file his own rape charges against all of the nuthummers in Pittsburgh at this rate.

 

[Adebisi]

He makes some awful mistakes but he also makes plays no other QB would be able to make (insert Brady or Manning(s) or Rivers or Brees here cause they can't shake DL's and LB's off them like this guy, they can't).

They don't have to. Brady and Manning, in particular, will sidestep the rush to buy more time, and/or get the pass off before the rush gets there in the first place. They also make fewer "awful mistakes."

 

[Adebisi]

I hated every QB they had between Bradshaw and Roethlisberger and they were ALL Steelers.

With all due respect, I think to some extent, this clouds the judgment of Steelers fans a bit.I have a friend who dated nothing but ugly girls & fat chicks growing up. Not surprisingly, he ended up marrying the first reasonably attractive un-obese girl who showed the slightest hint of interest in him during college. She's maybe a 6, but in his eyes, she's a 10.So there you go.

 

[CrossEyed]

The epic c0ckgobbling in this thread has reached Madden/Farve proportions.He's going to have to file his own rape charges against all of the nuthummers in Pittsburgh at this rate.

Still bitter after 4 years?