It looks as though the Bengals and Broncos have swapped first round picks, 17th and 24th, respectively. Plus, the Bengals get Deltha O'Neal.4/9/2004 - In one fell swoop Friday, the Bengals got a Pro Bowl cornerback, picked up a fourth-round draft pick, and still remained in prime position in the first round of the NFL Draft. Late Thursday night, Cincinnati completed a trade with Denver in which they swapped first-round picks and the Broncos gave the Bengals cornerback Deltha O’Neal and a fourth-rounder to move up from No. 24 to No. 17 in the first round. This makes me think that Marvin wasn't real excited with the prosepect of Gamble, meaning they are proably looking at DT or LB with the 24th pick.
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
Bengals/Broncos Trade (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter bshipper
- Start date
GreedoShotFirst
Footballguy
for the Bengals. I think this is a good move for them.
GreedoShotFirst
Footballguy
Goat Herders
Footballguy
Well, they've wanted to get rid of O'neal as I understand it, plus they've got an extra 2nd rounder (Washington) so giving up the 4th isn't a huge deal.I don't want to hypothesize too much too quickly, but I doubt they moved up to take Ben Troupe higher then they already could have had him, so the target is clearly someone else. Interesting....HERD
Moving up for a TE? You're right - not likely.For a WR? Hmm, how many were projected between 17 & 24? The Top4 should be gone by 16, so no help there.RB? Seeing how they were 24 and the projected slots for RBs are 21 & 22, this seems to fit the situation, but not Denver's "drafting RBs late" philosophy.CB? Lord knows they've been drafting CBs high lately with no success. Getting ahead of CIN & NO seems to fit this scenario.LB? Are they going after DJ WIlliams? they've moved into the right slot for that as well.Very interesting....Time to review the mocks.Herd? Get to work!
Homer J Simpson
I don't push
Wasn't Denver trying to make O'Neal a wide receiver last year? That doesn't bode well for his skills as a corner. I'm a huge Bengal fan and really don't like this trade.
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
Hard to say who Denver is targetting with the 17th pick. I hope Its not one of the top 2 RB's. I'm hoping dallas can land one of them. Any one think they might be looking at CB Strait from OU? or do you believe they could've gotten him at pick #24.
Drugrunner
Just call me HORSE
WTF?!?!So what's the speculation? Did Denver moved ahead of Dallas and NE to get the RB they covet?Does that make sense?
Homer J Simpson
I don't push
Couldn't agree more! I don't know if O'Neal is a headcase, a slacker, or just got into Shanahan's doghouse, but I think they're very pleased with this trade. I don't think it was to target a specific player or position, just a chance to drop some luggage and move into a better position--and with two 2nd rounders, they can still move up.Oneal's obviously a stellar athlete and has had success in the past, I just hope Marvin Lewis can bring out the corner in him again.
I believe the Broncos are just happy to be rid of O'Neil... They consider him a huge bust. He was useless at CB, so they moved him to WR this year where he didn't even play. I don't think they are specifically targetting someone in this move. They are just moving up into a better position for what they consider to be a very low price.
GOD HATES US ALL
Footballguy
All I know is the Bronco's gave up ALOT to move up seven spots in the last half of the first rd.Great trade and a no brainer for the Bengals
Another Bengals fan checking in here and not sure if I like this move. Only logic I can see here is that Lewis figures the top 2 CBs (Hall and Robinson) will be off the board by the 17th pick and picking up an extra 4th rounder and a player was worth moving down. Lewis must not view any other CB after Hall and Robinson as being worth the 17th pick. But what about a DT or LB at 17? My question is for the Bronco homers: What kind of value is O'Neal? The link said Pro Bowl player but is he really that good? WHat are his strengths and weaknesses? I haven't watched many Broncos games in the last couple years so have very little info on him.
MrKlaw
Footballguy
This could be a move by the Bronco's to get into a better position to move up again with their two 2nd round picks as ammo. Who knows who they are targeting, but if Winslow starts to slip twords the #10 spot I could see them making the move to get him. One of the top 4 WR's could also be targeted. I don't see all of them going in the top 10 and one could easily slip to them at #17 although they will probably have to jump up a couple slots ahead of San Fransisco.
WR is good guess(clayton or evans... evans might have been there at #24, roy & mike williams probably gone already, maybe reggie if teams like TB & SF pass on WR... i think they are just ahead of #17... TB #15?/SF#?), they might get kevin jones, they are better positioned for DJ or vilma if they want, & they might be in better position for DT like starks(harris long gone, & wilfork probably off the board by #17, too)?
jurb26
Footballguy
I have to think that Den is moving up in effort to land a WR. I know they would love to get Winslow, but he will not slip far enough for that to be realistic IMO. As for Deltha, I am very much so afraid of him as a return man vs. the Steelers. As far as Pro Bowl CB, the Bungles are fooling themsleves.
LOL at pro-bowl CB O'Neal. He did make a pro-bowl but I don't remember how many years ago. He is a tremendous athlete with terrific upside but has not worked to meet his potential. He is likely one of the players Rod Smith referred to when he said the team had no heart, no dedication whatever he said.Who do the Broncos like in the first round? I don't believe it is a CB they have Champ and really like Walls. I would not be surprised to see them take either S Jackson or the last of the Williams WR's. I also like the DJ Williams pick. With both Gold and Mobley still in limbo the LB corp could use some help.
crazygutgut
Footballguy
If another team isn't drafting a CB ahead of the Panthers, that is cool with me.
Fullback Fro
yesno
My guess is Denver will not be picking at #17. This is just the first move before draft day and could see them jumping up again either before or during the draft.
I don't necessarily think that Denver is looking to draft a RB at this spot, but we should be careful not to put too much weight on when Denver drafted RB's in the past. They have had two HOF-caliber backs. One of them was drafted in the sixth, and one was drafted in the second (and this surprised people since Denver "always drafts RB's late"). If they see a RB that they really want at 17 they may take him.Mostly, I think it was just Denver just wanting to get rid of O'Neal, and trading perceived trash & a fourth rounder to move up seven spots in the first round is always a good deal. It gives them an outside shot at a top 4 WR, probably the RB of their choosing if they want it, or various defensive options.
Arm Chair Express
Footballguy
Sure it makes sense, They trade away their pro-bowl RB for a Pro-bowl corner, now they move up to replace their RB with either Jackson or Jones, which would end up probowlers in that system. More than likely though they will address their hole at Linebacker. They may even trade up to grab a WR or try to get into the top 10 to grab Winslow if he falls past Det. or Cleveland.
Bluesbomber
Footballguy
My first instinct was RB but maybe they are positioning to trade to NE or Dal for a targeted player and pick once they get nervous one of them won't get the rb they want?
Considering this trade, how long do the Pats wait to get something done with Detroit or, conversely, how long does it take the Lions to contact the Broncos? This trade could have a significant impact on the first round.The offer between the teams, Pats/Lions, was to be ratified during the draft and dependent upon players left on the board, which is a synopsis of all I have read. The Lions should place a call into the Broncos, opinion. This move could force someone's hand. Tough to tell what the Rat is thinking but that pick at #6 would, potentially, grant him access to Winslow; R. Williams; Fitz; M. Williams; Taylor or one of the prime DL or DT. Detroit has a better shot at Jackson and Jones at #17 versus #21.Does anyone else see this?
Tenderknee
Footballguy
I think that Denver has evaluated the situation relating to whether or not they figure to have a shot at a good receiving TE next year (after Sharpe retires!!!) due to someone becoming available as a free agent. Their offense is much better with that TE available as a target. Rod Smith has a few more years left, so WR is not as urgent, but if they could get a Mike Williams, I think that Lelie and Williams would be equivalent to a young Rod Smith and Ed McCaffrey. Though the hands may not be as good, the types are what I consider equivalent.So if a veteran receiving TE is going to be available next year as a free agent, AND it is not possible to get Mike Williams, THEN I see them picking up that RB. In any case, at 17, they have options that will help the team regardless (on offense).If they choose to pick a defensive player, as mentioned earlier, you probably can pick from the best of the DL, LB, DB in the draft at 17. The 17 spot is a very good spot to be this year considering the amount of skill players expected to go early in the 1st round.Good move for the Broncos in my opinion.
TheFanatic
Footballguy
I'm thinking this as well. I'm thinking that Dallas and NE are really nervous right now. Personally I think it's a WR that Denver is going to go after, but if it's RB, Dallas and NE are going to be pissed....
Great deal for both teams at this point. Cincy doesn't lose much by moving down and gain O'Neal (who does need work but we'll see what Marvin can get out of him) and a 4th while Denver rids themselfs of an abundance of picks and excess baggage.Edit to add: I don't see Denver taking a back in the first they have enough backs to cover them right now. DT makes sense and so does LB.
Last edited by a moderator:
maybe, but hearst is ancient, not sure if anderson is still thought of as starter material, & droughns played fullback last year... if bronc's get better in a hurry, they may not be in this kind of position to get a potentially elite RB(until recently it was thought DET would take him or jackson at #6)... i know, they have had success with guys like davis, anderson & gary who were mid-late rounders who they could just plug into their system. but imo, they looked even better with a more talented RB like portis, a second rounder, plugged in behind their league best run blocking scheme. maybe this didn't escape skeletor's attention, & the wheels are turning on how good they could be if they handpicked a FIRST rounder behind said run blocking scheme... maybe this could propel them deeply into the playoffs?focusing even more on the running game might be timely & oppurtune, seeing as their passing game doesn't look to have the parts it did few years ago... plummer instead of elway is huge downgrade, mccaffery done, rod smith is older & may be in decline/diminishing speed & skills, or will be soon, & lelie has flashed potential but not demonstrated consistency, & it is hardly a given that he will emerge as a superstar... i think he will be ok, but for now he should be listed as closer to donte' stallworth than charles rogers & 'dre johnson, as far as top WR's taken in past two respective draft classes, in terms of boom/bust potential.
Last edited by a moderator:
bigfun54
Footballguy
I fail to see how this is anything other than positive for the Bengals. I don't know enough about Denver, but Cincy is not the 17th player in the draft away from the playoffs. I just don't see how the player and draft pick they received is somehow less significant than moving down 7 spots. So now, if there is someone the Bengals want to jump at they have O'Neal plus 2 3rd's and now 2 4ths to package in a move up. I think it is a good, not great, move and only confirms... Viva le Marvin!!!!
TheFanatic
Footballguy
And Buffalo had MANY more needs last year than Denver does this year, considering the year Henry had the year prior and they still took McGahee. The Broncos don't have Henry coming off a pro bowl season. They have Garrison Hearst who hasn't been the primary starter in 3 years. He's shared time.I know the Broncos have a great line, but can Hearst handle the 290 carries Portis had last year in 13 games?
Hearst had 178 carries in 12 games. Portis ran the ball 22 times a game. Hearst ran the ball 14 times a game. The Broncos are going to have a RBBC this year, but can we expect the 33 year old Hearst to be there next year? Is it that out of the question for Denver to grab a RB for next year and possibly this year and then a WR or 2 with those picks in the 2nd round?
EastBayFunk
Footballguy
Kevin Jones immediately came to mind. The only two teams likely to take him before #25 were Dallas and New England, both of whom Denver just skipped ahead of. Shanahan needs a RB and Jones seems like a decent replacement for Portis.A WR is also a definite possibility. Michael Clayton, despite his average speed, is still coveted by NFL teams for his ability to move the chains. With McCaffrey retiring and Smith aging it is possible that Shanahan is looking for a replacement. Now would be the time to draft that player. Rashaun Woods would also be a good complement to Lelie. My only concern with this scenario is that Denver might have had a chance at both guys with the 25th pick and would've been able to get a comparable player in Keary Colbert much later.Defensively they might be looking at an interior lineman. Perhaps they're after someone like Randy Starks. Time will tell.
Last edited by a moderator:
Sonny Lubick Blowup Doll
Footballguy
Am I the first to mention (in this thread -- skimmed it) that Deltha singlehandidly blew the game against New England?...on the worst coverage I've seen since high school?The T.D. he gave up was his ticket out of there...and everybody knew it. He was moved to WR :rotflmao: shortly thereafter. The fact that the Broncos got something in return for him, is A LOT more than most Denver fans expected.
Deltha O'Neal is crap. Nice move not giving up too much for him. Hopefully they don't make our mistake and give him a fat new contract. Picking up a 4th is solid in what is shaping up to be a pretty deep draft. The Bengals could wind up with a solid player at that pick. There are still some solid players for the Bengals if they deal down, the only problem for them may be that adding that other stud pass rusher opposite Justin Smith at DE with Udeze or Will Smith may be out of the question now, as well as Wilfork or Tommie Harris. There are plenty of quality DT's & LB's on the board in the later part of the 1st round and my guess is that they feel they'll wind up with a pretty solid player. They could also wind up with a guy like Vernon Carey, the huge tackle from Miami who can play guard and move to tackle when he's ready. This will help them address their CB issues, their DT or LB issues, maybe their guard issues, and still be able to add some quality depth in the later rounds. The Bengals drafting was pretty solid last year, so I think we should hand them the benefit of the doubt. The Broncos clearly have some other moves in mind. They have any number or routes they can go. Reggie Williams is a clear possibility here. Either he or Michael Jenkins, who is skyrocketing up some boards, should be available to team with Ashley Lelie for the foreseeable future at WR and replace an aging Rod Smith. The addition of Jenkins would give them two real tall, real fast, WR's with solid to excellent hands. Moving up may also give them a shot at drafting Steven Jackson, the powerful RB out of Oregon State and give Shanahan the stud RB he covets with the loss of Portis to compete with mini-me Quentin Griffin. The other option for them here would probably be to see if a guy like Wilfork or Tommie Harris fell to them at #17. Anyway you shake a stick at it, one of those 5 guys should be there, but the order is probably Wilfork, Harris, Williams, Jackson, Jenkins. We'll see.
