Bengals To Trade Houshmandzadeh? (1 Viewer)

[Delusions Of Adequacy]

This is why Chad Johnson makes a lot more money than TJ Houshmandzadeh.

These are the Bengals we're talking about. They don't have exactly have a stellar rep of making smart personnel decisions.

I don't find that argument very compelling. I think there's a consensus in the NFL regarding who's more valuable between Housh and Chad. What Chad brings to the table is much more unique and much harder to find. Wasn't his price tag reported to be two first round picks this past offseason? Wasn't there even a rumor that the Bengals turned down that offer from the Redskins? TJ Housh is like a Keenan McCardell type of WR. He's good, but he's not a franchise player. You don't pay big bucks for a catch-and-fall possession WR when you already have a lot of cash tied up in your franchise QB and WR. Housh isn't particularly fast. He isn't particularly good after the catch. He's 31 years old and he's looking for a big payday. I don't blame the Bengals for trying to unload him. I'd be doing the same thing.

Chad and Housh have been in the league for the exact same number of years and Chad is far ahead of TJ in every statistical category. He's one of the most hated players on these boards judging by the constant negativity I see from posters, but you can't ignore the raw numbers. His career statistics compare favorably with most of the best WRs of his generation.

I think you could find consensus in the league regarding the relative values of Rudi Johnson and Cedric Benson. Yet the Bengals have functionally traded Rudi for Benson

 

[Michael Fox Fan]

Chad is a five time Pro Bowler.TJ is a possession WR whose only success came after Chad had established himself as a star and started commanding double teams. It would be a lot easier to replace TJ than Chad. A guy like Jabar Gaffney or Mark Clayton could step into TJ's role and do fine. On the flipside, it would be very difficult to find an elite vertical WR who could challenge the secondary and command double coverage.This is why Chad Johnson makes a lot more money than TJ Houshmandzadeh.

Are you really comparing TJ to Gaffney and Clayton? Really?

 

[Michael Fox Fan]

Housh has put up better numbers for far more than four weeks of one season. He has done so for 2 years and 4 weeks now and counting.

That's debatable. TJ Houshmandzadeh has never had more receiving yards than Chad Johnson in a season.TJ Houshmandzadeh's career high in receiving yards is 1143 yards. Chad Johnson has eclipsed that mark each of the past 6 years. The NFL doesn't use PPR scoring. TJ is probably a better red zone target than Chad, but his yardage totals are lagging far behind.

TJ has played in 2 less games over the time period and has scored 8 more TDs. On top of that he has nearly 40 more receptions and less than 400 less yds. Per game averages over the time period:Housh: 6.65/73.6/0.68Johnson: 5.24/80.2/0.43Johnson has been a bit overrated the past 3 years while Housh has been underrated. Different breads of WR no doubt. I'd say Housh has both looked more impressive the past 2+ years and posted more impressive numbers however.

I'm sure EBF will downplay this very rational assessment of the two players.

 

[BuckeyeArt]

How do you make this statement

Johnson has been a bit overrated the past 3 years while Housh has been underrated. Different breads of WR no doubt. I'd say Housh has both looked more impressive the past 2+ years and posted more impressive numbers however.

and then follow it up with this

Also, he would immediately become the WR1 and concentration of coverage while now he is 1a or b and many times gets single coverage or miss matches due to Johnson.

8 minutes later?Wasn't the question about who was a better WR, not who put up better numbers?

 

[jurb26]

How do you make this statement

Johnson has been a bit overrated the past 3 years while Housh has been underrated. Different breads of WR no doubt. I'd say Housh has both looked more impressive the past 2+ years and posted more impressive numbers however.

and then follow it up with this

Also, he would immediately become the WR1 and concentration of coverage while now he is 1a or b and many times gets single coverage or miss matches due to Johnson.

8 minutes later?Wasn't the question about who was a better WR, not who put up better numbers?

Housh is better, but there isn't a vast discrepancy in his and Johnson's ability. I really don't see how this is all that hard to follow. I never said Housh was far and away the better WR. He is better than the general perception and Johnson is not as good as the general perception. That doesn't mean Johnson isn't good. Nobody on SF is nearly as good as Johnson, even though Housh is still IMO playing better and has played better the past few years. Given the fact that SF has nobody close to either Housh or Johnson's ability that would make Housh, if playing there, the easy choice for defensive coordinators to focus on in the passing game.

 

[Lash]

That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about Mark Clayton and Gaffney. I'll let their stats speak for themselves.

I think you could put either guy in the WR2 spot alongside a healthy Chad Johnson and get decent results. Their stats wouldn't be as good, but I don't think the downgrade from Housh to them would have a significant negative effect on Cincy's offense. That's the point I was trying to make. Slow possession WRs who don't make big plays generally aren't that hard to replace, which is why they don't make the type of money that guys like Chad, Burress, and Owens make.

it would be hard to have a significant negative effect on the 31st ranked offense

 

[BuckeyeArt]

How do you make this statement

Johnson has been a bit overrated the past 3 years while Housh has been underrated. Different breads of WR no doubt. I'd say Housh has both looked more impressive the past 2+ years and posted more impressive numbers however.

and then follow it up with this

Also, he would immediately become the WR1 and concentration of coverage while now he is 1a or b and many times gets single coverage or miss matches due to Johnson.

8 minutes later?Wasn't the question about who was a better WR, not who put up better numbers?

Housh is better, but there isn't a vast discrepancy in his and Johnson's ability. I really don't see how this is all that hard to follow. I never said Housh was far and away the better WR. He is better than the general perception and Johnson is not as good as the general perception. That doesn't mean Johnson isn't good. Nobody on SF is nearly as good as Johnson, even though Housh is still IMO playing better and has played better the past few years. Given the fact that SF has nobody close to either Housh or Johnson's ability that would make Housh, if playing there, the easy choice for defensive coordinators to focus on in the passing game.

This

Housh is better

and this

while now he is 1a or b and many times gets single coverage or miss matches due to Johnson.

are contradictory. If defensive coordinators are many times giving him the single coverage, doesn't that imply that they think Johnson is the one who can hurt them more?

 

[jurb26]

How do you make this statement

Johnson has been a bit overrated the past 3 years while Housh has been underrated. Different breads of WR no doubt. I'd say Housh has both looked more impressive the past 2+ years and posted more impressive numbers however.

and then follow it up with this

Also, he would immediately become the WR1 and concentration of coverage while now he is 1a or b and many times gets single coverage or miss matches due to Johnson.

8 minutes later?Wasn't the question about who was a better WR, not who put up better numbers?

Housh is better, but there isn't a vast discrepancy in his and Johnson's ability. I really don't see how this is all that hard to follow. I never said Housh was far and away the better WR. He is better than the general perception and Johnson is not as good as the general perception. That doesn't mean Johnson isn't good. Nobody on SF is nearly as good as Johnson, even though Housh is still IMO playing better and has played better the past few years. Given the fact that SF has nobody close to either Housh or Johnson's ability that would make Housh, if playing there, the easy choice for defensive coordinators to focus on in the passing game.

This

Housh is better

and this

while now he is 1a or b and many times gets single coverage or miss matches due to Johnson.

are contradictory. If defensive coordinators are many times giving him the single coverage, doesn't that imply that they think Johnson is the one who can hurt them more?

How many times would Housh see the weaker coverage in SF vs. Cinci? You're making this difficult when it isn't. It's simple. Housh and Johnson help each other by diverting coverage from one another at times. Many more times than either would if the other wasn't around. Housh wouldn't have that in SF as no other WR is in the ball park with him or Johnson.

 

[BuckeyeArt]

How many times would Housh see the weaker coverage in SF vs. Cinci? You're making this difficult when it isn't.

I don't disagree with this at all. Never did.

 

[Bizkiteer]

Chad is a five time Pro Bowler.TJ is a possession WR whose only success came after Chad had established himself as a star and started commanding double teams. It would be a lot easier to replace TJ than Chad. A guy like Jabar Gaffney or Mark Clayton could step into TJ's role and do fine. On the flipside, it would be very difficult to find an elite vertical WR who could challenge the secondary and command double coverage.This is why Chad Johnson makes a lot more money than TJ Houshmandzadeh.

You're delusional.

He's talking actual football and not fantasy football. The only thing that is delusional...is your comment.

 

[Bizkiteer]

Poll the 32 GM's in the NFL, who they would rather have...CJ or Housh, you'll get hands down CJ 32 times.

 

[FFdork]

Not to interrupt the fruitful discussion of Housh vs. Ocho (we've never had that discussion before on these boards), but ProFootballTalk is reporting that this rumor is false:

NINERS NOT INTERESTED IN T.J., WILLIAMSPosted by Mike Florio on October 7, 2008, 6:27 p.m.Contrary to a report from the Dayton Daily News indicating that the 49ers are interested in trading for receiver T.J. Houshmandzadeh or receiver Roy Williams, a league source tells us that the Niners are interested in neither player.It struck us as unusual that a newspaper in Dayton would have access to internal discussions involving the 49ers, and we probably should have said so.Regardless, we’re told that the story isn’t true. It could be that the Bengals would like to conjure a trade market for Houshmandzadeh, and that the Bengals are leaking rumors of the supposed deliberations of other teams in order to get someone to call about Houshmandzadeh’s availability. If the Bengals were to initiate trade discussions, they might be regarded as anxious to trade him, which would then drive down the price tag.

Now, of course the 49ers might deny interest publicly for any number of reasons, but it does seem odd that a newspaper in Dayton would have good connections to the 49er front office. The theory that this is a rumor being spread by the Bengals themselves seems more plausible. Even more likely is that this is some beat reporter drumming up a story where there really is none.

 

[Bizkiteer]

Chad is a five time Pro Bowler.TJ is a possession WR whose only success came after Chad had established himself as a star and started commanding double teams. It would be a lot easier to replace TJ than Chad. A guy like Jabar Gaffney or Mark Clayton could step into TJ's role and do fine. On the flipside, it would be very difficult to find an elite vertical WR who could challenge the secondary and command double coverage.This is why Chad Johnson makes a lot more money than TJ Houshmandzadeh.

Are you really comparing TJ to Gaffney and Clayton? Really?

You're not reading his post, he's pointing out that it's easier to replace TJ spot...giving an examples of players that could fill the spot. He's not saying that TJ is the same as them, just the fact that the possession WR spot is easier to fill with marginal talent or better.

 

[ratbast]

Hasn't Housh had back issues for a few years now? I remember reading about his back more than once. Ive always stayed away from him because of it. Tough bast made me regret it too.

 

[Moniker]

Chad is a five time Pro Bowler.TJ is a possession WR whose only success came after Chad had established himself as a star and started commanding double teams. It would be a lot easier to replace TJ than Chad. A guy like Jabar Gaffney or Mark Clayton could step into TJ's role and do fine. On the flipside, it would be very difficult to find an elite vertical WR who could challenge the secondary and command double coverage.This is why Chad Johnson makes a lot more money than TJ Houshmandzadeh.

You're delusional.

Actually, he's absolutely correct.

 

[Michael Fox Fan]

Chad is a five time Pro Bowler.TJ is a possession WR whose only success came after Chad had established himself as a star and started commanding double teams. It would be a lot easier to replace TJ than Chad. A guy like Jabar Gaffney or Mark Clayton could step into TJ's role and do fine. On the flipside, it would be very difficult to find an elite vertical WR who could challenge the secondary and command double coverage.This is why Chad Johnson makes a lot more money than TJ Houshmandzadeh.

Are you really comparing TJ to Gaffney and Clayton? Really?

You're not reading his post, he's pointing out that it's easier to replace TJ spot...giving an examples of players that could fill the spot. He's not saying that TJ is the same as them, just the fact that the possession WR spot is easier to fill with marginal talent or better.

Um.....no. I am reading his post. He clearly stated that Gaffney and Clayton could step in for TJ and "do fine". It's not a stretch to call that "comparing TJ to Gaffney and Clayton".And yes, I do understand that he's also saying CJ is tougher to replace than TJ. I'm just taking issue with the use of Gaffney and Clayton to illustrate the point.

 

[packersfan]

Poll the 32 GM's in the NFL, who they would rather have...CJ or Housh, you'll get hands down CJ 32 times.

I'll take that bet. As I posted before - when you take the totality of Chad Johnson (including all of his off-the-field BS) into account, it's very possible a lot of GMs would prefer the guy who's been arguably more productive the past few seasons and doesn't bring with him all of that BS. This isn't just about talent. Hell, if you polled all 32 GMs, you might get a consensus that the most talented WR on that team isn't Johnson or Housh, but rather Chris Henry. But there's only one team in the league which wanted anything to do with Henry this season.It's also the one which (assuming this report has any validity) would rather keep Chad Johnson than T.J. Houshmandzadeh.

 

[packersfan]

Now, of course the 49ers might deny interest publicly for any number of reasons, but it does seem odd that a newspaper in Dayton would have good connections to the 49er front office. The theory that this is a rumor being spread by the Bengals themselves seems more plausible. Even more likely is that this is some beat reporter drumming up a story where there really is none.

Maybe Bengals' homers can provide us with some insight into this beat writer's credibility. Not saying the rumor is true or false - it very well might be a load of BS - but I don't think it's surprising at all that a beat writer in any city could generate sources with members of another team's organization. That's a big part of how the job works. If the beat writer in question is any good at all, his connections run throughout the league and aren't just located within the Bengals' organization.Again, I'm not trying to support this rumor. It could be false. I'm just taking issue with the statement that a beat writer in Dayton couldn't have connections with the 49ers or any other team in the league beyond the Bengals.

 

[baconisgood]

This is why Chad Johnson makes a lot more money than TJ Houshmandzadeh.

These are the Bengals we're talking about. They don't have exactly have a stellar rep of making smart personnel decisions.

I don't find that argument very compelling. I think there's a consensus in the NFL regarding who's more valuable between Housh and Chad. What Chad brings to the table is much more unique and much harder to find. Wasn't his price tag reported to be two first round picks this past offseason? Wasn't there even a rumor that the Bengals turned down that offer from the Redskins? TJ Housh is like a Keenan McCardell type of WR. He's good, but he's not a franchise player. You don't pay big bucks for a catch-and-fall possession WR when you already have a lot of cash tied up in your franchise QB and WR. Housh isn't particularly fast. He isn't particularly good after the catch. He's 31 years old and he's looking for a big payday. I don't blame the Bengals for trying to unload him. I'd be doing the same thing.

Chad and Housh have been in the league for the exact same number of years and Chad is far ahead of TJ in every statistical category. He's one of the most hated players on these boards judging by the constant negativity I see from posters, but you can't ignore the raw numbers. His career statistics compare favorably with most of the best WRs of his generation.

I think you could find consensus in the league regarding the relative values of Rudi Johnson and Cedric Benson. Yet the Bengals have functionally traded Rudi for Benson

No, no they didn't. If anything they traded Rudi for Benson + 2.5 million.

 

[derek19]

If this happens, trade Housh away as fast as you can. As long as Nolan is the head coach, the 49ers will never win.

 

[FantasyTrader]

Chad is a five time Pro Bowler.TJ is a possession WR whose only success came after Chad had established himself as a star and started commanding double teams. It would be a lot easier to replace TJ than Chad. A guy like Jabar Gaffney or Mark Clayton could step into TJ's role and do fine. On the flipside, it would be very difficult to find an elite vertical WR who could challenge the secondary and command double coverage.This is why Chad Johnson makes a lot more money than TJ Houshmandzadeh.

You're delusional.

Actually, he's absolutely correct.

Actually, he's absolutely not. Yes, his statement is correct that it's easier to replace a possession WR than Chad Johnson. I don't believe Housh is a possession receiver. I believe he's Torry Holt. The 2nd fastest of two WR's on a team doesn't make a guy a "possession receiver" people.

 

[Bizkiteer]

Poll the 32 GM's in the NFL, who they would rather have...CJ or Housh, you'll get hands down CJ 32 times.

I'll take that bet. As I posted before - when you take the totality of Chad Johnson (including all of his off-the-field BS) into account, it's very possible a lot of GMs would prefer the guy who's been arguably more productive the past few seasons and doesn't bring with him all of that BS. This isn't just about talent. Hell, if you polled all 32 GMs, you might get a consensus that the most talented WR on that team isn't Johnson or Housh, but rather Chris Henry. But there's only one team in the league which wanted anything to do with Henry this season.It's also the one which (assuming this report has any validity) would rather keep Chad Johnson than T.J. Houshmandzadeh.

That why Chad's name comes up in the NFL circles as being one of the elite WR's in the NFL and Housh NEVER does. Basic point, it's easier to look good when the other guy is pulling the constant double coverage. I'm not saying Housh is a bad WR, but clearly NFL defenses gameplan for CJ as the primary focus is on him first on any given gameday.

 

[Manster]

Chad is a five time Pro Bowler.TJ is a possession WR whose only success came after Chad had established himself as a star and started commanding double teams. It would be a lot easier to replace TJ than Chad. A guy like Jabar Gaffney or Mark Clayton could step into TJ's role and do fine. On the flipside, it would be very difficult to find an elite vertical WR who could challenge the secondary and command double coverage.This is why Chad Johnson makes a lot more money than TJ Houshmandzadeh.

jabar gafney? mark clayton? i think you are overvaluing Chad and undervaluing Housh. lets get one thing straight Housh is the best possession WR in the NFL. you cant trivialize what he's done.

 

[packersfan]

Poll the 32 GM's in the NFL, who they would rather have...CJ or Housh, you'll get hands down CJ 32 times.

I'll take that bet. As I posted before - when you take the totality of Chad Johnson (including all of his off-the-field BS) into account, it's very possible a lot of GMs would prefer the guy who's been arguably more productive the past few seasons and doesn't bring with him all of that BS. This isn't just about talent. Hell, if you polled all 32 GMs, you might get a consensus that the most talented WR on that team isn't Johnson or Housh, but rather Chris Henry. But there's only one team in the league which wanted anything to do with Henry this season.It's also the one which (assuming this report has any validity) would rather keep Chad Johnson than T.J. Houshmandzadeh.

That why Chad's name comes up in the NFL circles as being one of the elite WR's in the NFL and Housh NEVER does. Basic point, it's easier to look good when the other guy is pulling the constant double coverage. I'm not saying Housh is a bad WR, but clearly NFL defenses gameplan for CJ as the primary focus is on him first on any given gameday.

Again, I'm not questioning his talent. I've stated that several times now. But this game isn't just about talent. If it was, Chris Henry would probably be a perennial Pro Bowler. There are plenty of other issues with Johnson that could sway GMs away from him. And for all of his talent, he's playing like absolute garbage right now. Meanwhile, Houshmandzadeh is headed for another season of 90+ receptions and a healthy number of touchdowns.

 

[chris1969]

Here are the last 3 seasons for Housh/Johnson:

Housh:

31/351/3

112/1143/12

90/1081/9 (missed 2 games this year)

233/2575/24

Johnson:

14/159/1

93/1440/8

87/1369/7

194/2968/16

Having seen more Cinci games over the past 3 years than I would have cared too. I'd have to say Housh has been every bit better than Johnson than those numbers would indicate.

Agreed!

How do you make this statement

Johnson has been a bit overrated the past 3 years while Housh has been underrated. Different breads of WR no doubt. I'd say Housh has both looked more impressive the past 2+ years and posted more impressive numbers however.

and then follow it up with this

Also, he would immediately become the WR1 and concentration of coverage while now he is 1a or b and many times gets single coverage or miss matches due to Johnson.

8 minutes later?Wasn't the question about who was a better WR, not who put up better numbers?

AgreedHoush is better, but there isn't a vast discrepancy in his and Johnson's ability. I really don't see how this is all that hard to follow. I never said Housh was far and away the better WR. He is better than the general perception and Johnson is not as good as the general perception. That doesn't mean Johnson isn't good. Nobody on SF is nearly as good as Johnson, even though Housh is still IMO playing better and has played better the past few years. Given the fact that SF has nobody close to either Housh or Johnson's ability that would make Housh, if playing there, the easy choice for defensive coordinators to focus on in the passing game.

Bruce is better than both in an ancient Chris Carter kinda way. Housh is the closest thing to Torry Holt as... well, uhm Torry Holt. If you want Isaac Bruce to produce in this stage of his career, you find another Torry Holt.

Poll the 32 GM's in the NFL, who they would rather have...CJ or Housh, you'll get hands down CJ 32 times.

I'm willing to bet you find 23 that say they wouldn't touch Ocho Stinko with a 10 foot pole.

Not to interrupt the fruitful discussion of Housh vs. Ocho (we've never had that discussion before on these boards), but ProFootballTalk is reporting that this rumor is false:

NINERS NOT INTERESTED IN T.J., WILLIAMS

Posted by Mike Florio on October 7, 2008, 6:27 p.m.

Contrary to a report from the Dayton Daily News indicating that the 49ers are interested in trading for receiver T.J. Houshmandzadeh or receiver Roy Williams, a league source tells us that the Niners are interested in neither player.



It struck us as unusual that a newspaper in Dayton would have access to internal discussions involving the 49ers, and we probably should have said so.

Regardless, we’re told that the story isn’t true. It could be that the Bengals would like to conjure a trade market for Houshmandzadeh, and that the Bengals are leaking rumors of the supposed deliberations of other teams in order to get someone to call about Houshmandzadeh’s availability. If the Bengals were to initiate trade discussions, they might be regarded as anxious to trade him, which would then drive down the price tag.

Now, of course the 49ers might deny interest publicly for any number of reasons, but it does seem odd that a newspaper in Dayton would have good connections to the 49er front office. The theory that this is a rumor being spread by the Bengals themselves seems more plausible. Even more likely is that this is some beat reporter drumming up a story where there really is none.

Uhmmm, why is it odd that a newspaper in Dayton would have knowledge of trade talks in Cincy? So the 49ers denied it. I denied looking up Mary Towler's dress in the 4th grade, but it didn't mean that snitch Jessie Barker didn't know what she was talking about!

Poll the 32 GM's in the NFL, who they would rather have...CJ or Housh, you'll get hands down CJ 32 times.

I'll take that bet. As I posted before - when you take the totality of Chad Johnson (including all of his off-the-field BS) into account, it's very possible a lot of GMs would prefer the guy who's been arguably more productive the past few seasons and doesn't bring with him all of that BS. This isn't just about talent. Hell, if you polled all 32 GMs, you might get a consensus that the most talented WR on that team isn't Johnson or Housh, but rather Chris Henry. But there's only one team in the league which wanted anything to do with Henry this season.

It's also the one which (assuming this report has any validity) would rather keep Chad Johnson than T.J. Houshmandzadeh.

That seems both true and sad. If Cincy really wanted to improve this year, they'd trade both CJ and Henry for Isaac Bruce.

 

[Mikey16x]

 

[teamroc]

Poll the 32 GM's in the NFL, who they would rather have...CJ or Housh, you'll get hands down CJ 32 times.

Zero chance of that. We're not talking entire career. At this moment in time (and the last 30 games), Housh is clearly outplaying CJ. And it's not CJ drawing the defense. It's not CJ getting double covered. This year has been even worse. Maybe CJ is still hurting. Maybe he's getting old. But from what I've seen this year, CJ is really struggling. He's not even getting open, and his YAC is garbage.

 

[Moniker]

Chad is a five time Pro Bowler.TJ is a possession WR whose only success came after Chad had established himself as a star and started commanding double teams. It would be a lot easier to replace TJ than Chad. A guy like Jabar Gaffney or Mark Clayton could step into TJ's role and do fine. On the flipside, it would be very difficult to find an elite vertical WR who could challenge the secondary and command double coverage.This is why Chad Johnson makes a lot more money than TJ Houshmandzadeh.

You're delusional.

Actually, he's absolutely correct.

Actually, he's absolutely not. Yes, his statement is correct that it's easier to replace a possession WR than Chad Johnson. I don't believe Housh is a possession receiver. I believe he's Torry Holt. The 2nd fastest of two WR's on a team doesn't make a guy a "possession receiver" people.

Housh is Torry Holt. lol. Holt has proven that he can handle the WR1, Housh has not. You can start making that comparison when Housh is playing without a guy like CJ drawing the double coverage.

 

[two_dollars]

Let me know if there's anything other than rumors.

 

[Das Boot]

Poll the 32 GM's in the NFL, who they would rather have...CJ or Housh, you'll get hands down CJ 32 times.

Zero chance of that. We're not talking entire career. At this moment in time (and the last 30 games), Housh is clearly outplaying CJ. And it's not CJ drawing the defense. It's not CJ getting double covered. This year has been even worse. Maybe CJ is still hurting. Maybe he's getting old. But from what I've seen this year, CJ is really struggling. He's not even getting open, and his YAC is garbage.

From a team cancer perspective I'm not a C85 fan, but he is definitely playing hurt this season and will be for the whole season if he makes it that far so I can and do respect him a lot for that.

 

[cvnpoka]

Here are the last 3 seasons for Housh/Johnson:Housh:31/351/3112/1143/1290/1081/9 (missed 2 games this year)233/2575/24Johnson:14/159/193/1440/887/1369/7194/2968/16Having seen more Cinci games over the past 3 years than I would have cared too. I'd have to say Housh has been every bit better than Johnson than those numbers would indicate.

thank you. someone with some sense.ebf, it should be obv that comparing raw career numbers is disingenuous. tj was not productive in his early years. for the last 3 years his numbers are better than chads. im not sure whos better. thats for the scouts to decide. im a bengals fan and i watch a lot of bengals and i would prefer tj at this point but im sure im biased by chads abysmal recent play.comparing tj to jabar is just so lol bad im not sure you can ever be taken seriously.

 

[the rover]

Can some mod please just nuke this whole worthless thread? The pointless bickering isn't even entertaining.

TIA

 

[QuizGuy66]

As a Who Dey fan here's my thoughts.

1) It's a little tough to grade Chad this particular year as he's playing hurt.

2) That said, they are two very different receivers. Personally as a preference I like Hou$h better, mainly because he consistently goes across the middle and makes tough catches in traffic knowing he's going to take a shot. I love Chad, but he is much more reluctant to get hit IMO.

3) Chad can make the bigger play when healthy. I hope that's still the case. He's looked way out of synch so far this year.

4) Short of Housh demanding it through his agent in private, I really don't see the Bengals trading him. I think that the moves they made in jettisoning some contracts were designed with keeping Housh in mind.

5) It has nothing to do with the above, but I've been very impressed with Antonio Chatman so far this year. Not enough to see him moved up to #2 with Housh gone, mind you, but enough to see the position as an overall strength once again.

-QG

 

[Magnus_CA]

This would be perfectly in line with their management. Deal your only consistent player. Good call Bengals!

Only the Bengals would turn down a ridiculously too-good-to-be-true offer for Johnson and then possibly decide to get rid of the WR who's clearly better.

Ain't THAT the truth!Follows the pattern of cutting Rudi Johnson (and Kenny Watson to make room for Chris Henry) while signing Cedric Benson.

They just resigned Kenny.

 

[UFO]

Enough about CJ, if TJ is dealt doesn't Henry move into a starting role. I think at this moment in time he has the most natural talent of any of the Cincy WRs and he ever gets his head in straight (big IF) he could assume the role of the #1 in Cincy.

Also I would think if the niners are really interested in getting a WR I think Roy Williams makes a lot more sense. He knows Martz's offense and could move right in as their #1 where he actually performed decently during his time in Detroit. He certainly is a more gifted WR than TJ as well.

 

[Da Beers]

If this happens, trade Housh away as fast as you can. As long as Nolan is the head coach, the 49ers will never win.

From a fantasy perspective, who cares if they win? All I know is that he'd arguably be going to a better situation with Martz, and frankly I'd be a buyer if I thought this rumor was true.

 

[FFdork]

Uhmmm, why is it odd that a newspaper in Dayton would have knowledge of trade talks in Cincy? So the 49ers denied it. I denied looking up Mary Towler's dress in the 4th grade, but it didn't mean that snitch Jessie Barker didn't know what she was talking about!

Sometimes it hardly seems worth posting in here. If you and the other person that responded would actually read my entire post I acknowledged that there are lots of reasons the 49ers might deny interest. However, while I think PFT is kind of the Enquirer of NFL news, I'm going to go out on a limb that Florio has better connections than 99.9% of the people on this board.It's not odd that the newspaper in Dayton would know something about the Bengal's plans, i.e. that they would like to trade Housh. That was part of the point they're making in the PFT article I posted. It would be a little odd for the paper to have a good contact within the 49er organization to gauge the level of interest the 49ers have. Not impossible, but it's far more likely that: 1. the Bengals are putting this out there to drum up interest or 2. a beat reporter heard the 49ers made a call and made it out to be a little bigger than it is to sell some papers.

Nice font BTW.

 

[Ballstein]

Enough about CJ, if TJ is dealt doesn't Henry move into a starting role. I think at this moment in time he has the most natural talent of any of the Cincy WRs and he ever gets his head in straight (big IF) he could assume the role of the #1 in Cincy.Also I would think if the niners are really interested in getting a WR I think Roy Williams makes a lot more sense. He knows Martz's offense and could move right in as their #1 where he actually performed decently during his time in Detroit. He certainly is a more gifted WR than TJ as well.

TJ is better than roy williams, dont kid yourself

 

[FantasyTrader]

Chad is a five time Pro Bowler.TJ is a possession WR whose only success came after Chad had established himself as a star and started commanding double teams. It would be a lot easier to replace TJ than Chad. A guy like Jabar Gaffney or Mark Clayton could step into TJ's role and do fine. On the flipside, it would be very difficult to find an elite vertical WR who could challenge the secondary and command double coverage.This is why Chad Johnson makes a lot more money than TJ Houshmandzadeh.

You're delusional.

Actually, he's absolutely correct.

Actually, he's absolutely not. Yes, his statement is correct that it's easier to replace a possession WR than Chad Johnson. I don't believe Housh is a possession receiver. I believe he's Torry Holt. The 2nd fastest of two WR's on a team doesn't make a guy a "possession receiver" people.

Housh is Torry Holt. lol. Holt has proven that he can handle the WR1, Housh has not. You can start making that comparison when Housh is playing without a guy like CJ drawing the double coverage.

You make a very valid point here. None of us REALLY know. But just because he hasn't, doesn't mean he can't.

 

[Bl Deep]

This would be perfectly in line with their management. Deal your only consistent player. Good call Bengals!

Only the Bengals would turn down a ridiculously too-good-to-be-true offer for Johnson and then possibly decide to get rid of the WR who's clearly better.

Puh-leeze. TJ is a good player, but he owes a lot of his success to Chad. A good possession WR is not as valuable as an elite vertical WR who can stretch the field. That's why Chad got paid and TJ didn't.

Wow..... just wow... another guy who just doesn't get it.

 

[Bl Deep]

Chad is a five time Pro Bowler.TJ is a possession WR whose only success came after Chad had established himself as a star and started commanding double teams. It would be a lot easier to replace TJ than Chad. A guy like Jabar Gaffney or Mark Clayton could step into TJ's role and do fine. On the flipside, it would be very difficult to find an elite vertical WR who could challenge the secondary and command double coverage.This is why Chad Johnson makes a lot more money than TJ Houshmandzadeh.

You're delusional.

Actually, he's absolutely correct.

Actually, he's absolutely not. Yes, his statement is correct that it's easier to replace a possession WR than Chad Johnson. I don't believe Housh is a possession receiver. I believe he's Torry Holt. The 2nd fastest of two WR's on a team doesn't make a guy a "possession receiver" people.

Housh is Torry Holt. lol. Holt has proven that he can handle the WR1, Housh has not. You can start making that comparison when Housh is playing without a guy like CJ drawing the double coverage.

LOL.... Holt came into his own in the shadow of perennial probowler Issace Bruce.... short memories... I don't think it is even arguable that a guy like Housh/Brandon Marshall is more valuable than a CJ/Santonio Holmes type... I know i wouldn't blinik twice before taking housh over CJ...

 

[Bl Deep]

Enough about CJ, if TJ is dealt doesn't Henry move into a starting role. I think at this moment in time he has the most natural talent of any of the Cincy WRs and he ever gets his head in straight (big IF) he could assume the role of the #1 in Cincy.Also I would think if the niners are really interested in getting a WR I think Roy Williams makes a lot more sense. He knows Martz's offense and could move right in as their #1 where he actually performed decently during his time in Detroit. He certainly is a more gifted WR than TJ as well.

TJ is better than roy williams, dont kid yourself

You stick Roy Williams with Carson Palmer and i think the conversation changes.... Agreed getting Roy makes more sense than housh for the niners....

 

[North]

They will never trade Housh. They can't keep both him and Chad after this year. If you were in charge of making these decisions who would you keep? Chad= always running his mouth, wants out. Or Housh= the consummate professional.

I don't think there's anyway that the Bungals can screw this up. You can get the same value for Housh or Chad, which one would you keep?

 

[Fullback Fro]

Chad is a five time Pro Bowler.TJ is a possession WR whose only success came after Chad had established himself as a star and started commanding double teams. It would be a lot easier to replace TJ than Chad. A guy like Jabar Gaffney or Mark Clayton could step into TJ's role and do fine. On the flipside, it would be very difficult to find an elite vertical WR who could challenge the secondary and command double coverage.This is why Chad Johnson makes a lot more money than TJ Houshmandzadeh.

Are you really comparing TJ to Gaffney and Clayton? Really?

You're not reading his post, he's pointing out that it's easier to replace TJ spot...giving an examples of players that could fill the spot. He's not saying that TJ is the same as them, just the fact that the possession WR spot is easier to fill with marginal talent or better.

Um.....no. I am reading his post. He clearly stated that Gaffney and Clayton could step in for TJ and "do fine". It's not a stretch to call that "comparing TJ to Gaffney and Clayton".And yes, I do understand that he's also saying CJ is tougher to replace than TJ. I'm just taking issue with the use of Gaffney and Clayton to illustrate the point.

Again, Clayton is ahead of where Housh was at this point in his career.

 

[TankRizzo]

They will never trade Housh. They can't keep both him and Chad after this year. If you were in charge of making these decisions who would you keep? Chad= always running his mouth, wants out. Or Housh= the consummate professional.

I don't think there's anyway that the Bungals can screw this up. You can get the same value for Housh or Chad, which one would you keep?

 

[Michael Fox Fan]

Chad is a five time Pro Bowler.TJ is a possession WR whose only success came after Chad had established himself as a star and started commanding double teams. It would be a lot easier to replace TJ than Chad. A guy like Jabar Gaffney or Mark Clayton could step into TJ's role and do fine. On the flipside, it would be very difficult to find an elite vertical WR who could challenge the secondary and command double coverage.This is why Chad Johnson makes a lot more money than TJ Houshmandzadeh.

Are you really comparing TJ to Gaffney and Clayton? Really?

You're not reading his post, he's pointing out that it's easier to replace TJ spot...giving an examples of players that could fill the spot. He's not saying that TJ is the same as them, just the fact that the possession WR spot is easier to fill with marginal talent or better.

Um.....no. I am reading his post. He clearly stated that Gaffney and Clayton could step in for TJ and "do fine". It's not a stretch to call that "comparing TJ to Gaffney and Clayton".And yes, I do understand that he's also saying CJ is tougher to replace than TJ. I'm just taking issue with the use of Gaffney and Clayton to illustrate the point.

Again, Clayton is ahead of where Housh was at this point in his career.

great analysis

 

[Fullback Fro]

Chad is a five time Pro Bowler.TJ is a possession WR whose only success came after Chad had established himself as a star and started commanding double teams. It would be a lot easier to replace TJ than Chad. A guy like Jabar Gaffney or Mark Clayton could step into TJ's role and do fine. On the flipside, it would be very difficult to find an elite vertical WR who could challenge the secondary and command double coverage.This is why Chad Johnson makes a lot more money than TJ Houshmandzadeh.

Are you really comparing TJ to Gaffney and Clayton? Really?

You're not reading his post, he's pointing out that it's easier to replace TJ spot...giving an examples of players that could fill the spot. He's not saying that TJ is the same as them, just the fact that the possession WR spot is easier to fill with marginal talent or better.

Um.....no. I am reading his post. He clearly stated that Gaffney and Clayton could step in for TJ and "do fine". It's not a stretch to call that "comparing TJ to Gaffney and Clayton".And yes, I do understand that he's also saying CJ is tougher to replace than TJ. I'm just taking issue with the use of Gaffney and Clayton to illustrate the point.

Again, Clayton is ahead of where Housh was at this point in his career.

great analysis

Thanks

 

[CalBear]

If this happens, trade Housh away as fast as you can. As long as York is the owner, the 49ers will never win.

Fixed that for you.

 

[cvnpoka]

They will never trade Housh. They can't keep both him and Chad after this year. If you were in charge of making these decisions who would you keep? Chad= always running his mouth, wants out. Or Housh= the consummate professional.I don't think there's anyway that the Bungals can screw this up. You can get the same value for Housh or Chad, which one would you keep?

chad is under contract so i think he is staying.not sure about their cap structure but i would think they would want to resign tj.if, as you say, they cant keep both then it makes absolutely no sense to reject the 1st rounder+ for chad earlier this year. i know this is the bungles but i cant imagine they are that dumb.methinks they will resign tj, esp since they seem to be intent on saving money, by letting willie anderson and rudi go. so they should have cap space.

 

[North]

They will never trade Housh. They can't keep both him and Chad after this year. If you were in charge of making these decisions who would you keep? Chad= always running his mouth, wants out. Or Housh= the consummate professional.I don't think there's anyway that the Bungals can screw this up. You can get the same value for Housh or Chad, which one would you keep?

chad is under contract so i think he is staying.not sure about their cap structure but i would think they would want to resign tj.if, as you say, they cant keep both then it makes absolutely no sense to reject the 1st rounder+ for chad earlier this year. i know this is the bungles but i cant imagine they are that dumb.methinks they will resign tj, esp since they seem to be intent on saving money, by letting willie anderson and rudi go. so they should have cap space.

They rejected the first rounder offered for Chad earlier b/c they could afford to have both on their roster this year but next year they won't be able to afford both of their salaries. Even if they Franchise Housh next year they still end up paying him around 8 million, and it would probably piss him off. I just don't think they could afford to keep both, just as Arizona won't keep both Fitz and Q.