azngangster
Footballguy
As most of you know, Griese is now the starting qb for the bears. My question is, does this change at the qb position help or hurt bernard berrian?
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Bernard Berrian (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter azngangster
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ImTheScientist
Footballguy
Just traded Berrian for Cotchery 
Jeff Haseley
Moderator
My thoughts exactly, although I would've bolded the increase.
Full disclosure: I am a Bears homer, and I own Berrian.
I can't see Berrian's value changing very much. Rex liked to throw the deep ball -- whether he completed it, well, that's another story. But at least Berrian had the chances. I don't see Griese throwing as many deep balls. I don't think Lovie is going to let Griese just start airing it out with 40 yard bombs. I see the move from Rex to Griese as Lovie finally saying that our D is good enough to win the game, so we can't let the qb lose the game for us like Rex has been doing. So those 40 yard bombs will turn into more 10 yard passes, which I can see being thrown more to Berrian.
All in all, I think he comes out where he started.
I can't see Berrian's value changing very much. Rex liked to throw the deep ball -- whether he completed it, well, that's another story. But at least Berrian had the chances. I don't see Griese throwing as many deep balls. I don't think Lovie is going to let Griese just start airing it out with 40 yard bombs. I see the move from Rex to Griese as Lovie finally saying that our D is good enough to win the game, so we can't let the qb lose the game for us like Rex has been doing. So those 40 yard bombs will turn into more 10 yard passes, which I can see being thrown more to Berrian.
All in all, I think he comes out where he started.
SteveInChicago
Footballguy
Shorter passes and lesss interceptions = more passes.In PPR his value definitely goes upIn non-PPR his value is probably around the same.
AnonymousBob
Footballguy
Is Griese going to blindly hurl the ball down the field and pray Berrian comes up with it?
To commish is my wish
Footballguy
DoubleG
Footballguy
No - which is why, imho, Berrian's value in non-PPR dips a little. I think Moose will get more passes coming his way as well. In summary, I would bump everyone's value slightly (fewer TOs = longer drives = more chances) except Berrian's - Berrian was Rex's guy. I don't think Griese airs it out as much and I don't he think he looks Berrian's way as much.In the interest of full disclosure I am a huge Bears fan - but own no Bears offensive players in FF.(I play FF with my head, not my heart 
)
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mlball77
Footballguy
Grossman locks onto Berrian quite a lot. Even though I think the QB will improve slightly, Berrian's numbers seem likely to dip a bit (I say this as a Bears fan and a Berrian owner). I think Muhsin might be the big winner here... or at least small winner. I really think he'll get a few more looks across the middle from Griese.
broncofan13000
Footballguy
I was thinking the same, his value is so low right now that he can't do any worse. We don't really know how Griese will divide up the passes, and there is a decent chance that Mushin sees an upgrade in catches. Could be a decent flyer in ppr leagues catching short-medium range routes...and if he doesn't work out, throw him back on the WW...
Southside Stosh
Footballguy
Unless Berrian's signiture route becomes 'the five yard slant' I think his value goes down. You won't hear "Griese deep ball to Berrian" from the play by play guy a lot this season.
Bears_Man2
Footballguy
I don't know that it changes much.
No matter who is QB, Moose still won't get separation so Berrian will get his targets. I hope Griese makes more use of Olsen/Clark.
In short, Berrian does everything (underneath, over the top), but block, better than Moose.
No matter who is QB, Moose still won't get separation so Berrian will get his targets. I hope Griese makes more use of Olsen/Clark.
In short, Berrian does everything (underneath, over the top), but block, better than Moose.
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Reservoir Dog
Footballguy
Berrian's value will go up, imo. I've been following Griese's career for years, and he's always been a pretty accurate passer. Those who are saying that he has a weak arm have obviously never seen him play. He's not John Elway, but he can definitely get the ball down the field. I think is a HUGE move in Chicago, Lovie just saved their season.
Add Griese immediately if you have room on your roster!
Add Griese immediately if you have room on your roster!
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DoubleG
Footballguy
I agree with the accuracy part - and I don't think most people think he can't throw deep - he just won't as often as Rex did. IMHO, I think the Bears should allow Griese to throw deep, I just don't think they will at this point. I can see Griese playing it much closer to the vest for several weeks.
H.K.
Footballguy
IMHO, Berrian's value will take a monster hit. No way he gets the targets he did with Grossman. Despite Berrian's penchant for dropping passes and giving up on routes, Grossman still continued to throw to him. Ironically, Grossman's reliance on Berrian cost him his job. Griese won't make the same mistake. There are a lot of 1 or 2 catch games in Berrian's future.Actually, in spite of Berrian's drops, Rex trying to force the ball to Mushin has gotten him into more trouble in the 1st three games. Three of his last four INT's have been trying to force it to #87. Mushin gets abxolutely -0- separation at this point in his career and doesn't appear to have the ability to make a play on the ball in traffic. The rest of the Bear receivers aren't much better as the insist on keeping Davis in front of Bradley on the depth chart. I think Griese will be focussing more on the two TE's, but will have to throw to Berrian as he seems like the only WR capable of getting separation.Most people had BB as a WR3 at the beginning of the year and although he's played like a WR3-4 (ranking #38 in non-ppr) so far, we've expected more from him. IMHO, he gets back to where we expected him, but the upside will be limited. He should be a decent WR3 with Griese simply by being a #1 WR on a team that will be unable to run against teams like MIN and GB and will be in more high scoring games due to a deteriorating D. If you grabbed BB hoping for a WR2 with upside, I would wait until after the Det game and put him on the block. I expect him to do well this week as the Bears will have to throw often and Det not really having a CB that can cover him.That is all.
PsychoMan
Footballguy
You'll see a new Bears team this week.
New QB - honestly cannot possibly be worse than grossman, although he might have to knock the rust off for a game or 2
Defense now decimated with injuries - there are at least 3 pro bowl defenders and a couple other starters not playing next week so it looks like the Bears will be playing from behind which means more passes thrown Bernardo's way.
Not sure how Berrian doesn't get an upgrade IMO. I think he's gotta see more targets and the balls should be thrown better.
New QB - honestly cannot possibly be worse than grossman, although he might have to knock the rust off for a game or 2
Defense now decimated with injuries - there are at least 3 pro bowl defenders and a couple other starters not playing next week so it looks like the Bears will be playing from behind which means more passes thrown Bernardo's way.
Not sure how Berrian doesn't get an upgrade IMO. I think he's gotta see more targets and the balls should be thrown better.
FFFanaticc
Footballguy
agree 100%.How can anyone not think the entire Bears passing game will improve? If nothing else, they should be much more proficiant in the Red Zone, which is good for all the Bears players. Heck, this might even help Cedrick Benson.Besides, even if Greise is not much better than Rex, at least they play the Lions this week. Did anyone see the Phily-Detroit game last week?
Deuce'sWild
Footballguy
I'm still on the fence here. I do think Grossman locked onto Berrian, but it also seems that Berrian is there best WR, so he SHOULD get the most targets. He might not get as many deep looks, but that's to be seen. I would guess against Det he's a very good WR3 play. But, I'm not sure what to make of this until we see a couple of games.
I'm going to roll the dice with Berrian this week (over Galloway).
I'm going to roll the dice with Berrian this week (over Galloway).
WarRedbirds
Footballguy
Well put, LHUCKS. Why would the guy be in the NFL if he couldn't throw it 40 yards to hit Berrian in stride?
To be fair here, Berrian had trouble catching Grossmans's passes that hit him in the chest. I think the inconsistancy from his wrs and tes as well as the mediocre line infront of him contributed to his poor play more than anything. I bet Griese's confidence will be shot too once the wrs/tes start dropping good despite being force because the line collapsed around him.
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Sleeper 43
Footballguy
I truly believe this weeks Shark Special is getting Berrian on the cheap, his targets don't lie either.
Griese will have 300 yard games.
Griese will have 300 yard games.
Pop quiz: How many of Rex's INT's this last game were on targets to Berrian?Pop quiz #2: How man of Rex's INT's were targets to Mushin.
And the answer is : zero to Berrian and 3 to Mushin...from NFL.Com play by play15:00) 8-R.Grossman pass deep middle intended for 87-M.Muhammad INTERCEPTED by 42-A.Henry at DAL 11. 42-A.Henry to DAL 34 for 23 yards (81-R.Davis). (12:01) 8-R.Grossman pass short right intended for 87-M.Muhammad INTERCEPTED by 42-A.Henry at CHI 28. 42-A.Henry for 28 yards, TOUCHDOWN. 15) (Shotgun) 8-R.Grossman pass short left intended for 87-M.Muhammad INTERCEPTED by 31-R.Williams at DAL 47. 31-R.Williams ran ob at DAL 47 for no gain.
Correct. As has been pointed out in numerous threads thus far, Moose is just absolutely UNABLE to gain any kind of seperation on mediocre to good cover corners. Berrian will be just fine. If you have an owner who see's a downgrade, make the move. Berrian can get open vs. some pretty good coverage (even rolled safeties) and can get the YAC you need for good production. I'm not predicting something crazy, but hopefully Griese will be able to get the ball out and into his "open' WR's hands.malaka said:
Paddy O'Seanessy
Footballguy
FascinatingThe Bears have two NFL grade players on offense, Kruetz and Berrianmalaka said:
not a Rex defense Grossman IS the best QB on the team
Guy on the train responded to my question, "Why not Orton?" with "drinking problem" -- worse than Griese's?! (Missed a start at Denver due to injury from falling down in his driveway)
Muhammed hasn't been "in the game" for 10 months now
Fantasy rule: someone has to score. Since that's Berrian he's the only play. However, since Griese is not an improvement his greater production will be due to graciousness of the opponent. Detroit should be kind.
AnonymousBob
Footballguy
We all seem to be in agreement that Griese will be an upgrade over Berrian. IMO that's the very reason Berrian will be in for a decrease-Griese may or may not be able to throw the deep ball but if he truly is a better qb he won't lock onto one guy. Spreading the ball around isn't always good for receivers when it comes to fantasy football.
ImTheScientist
Footballguy
Paddy O'Seanessy
Footballguy
at least he didn't say we agree that Griese is an upgrade over "Wrecks"
AnonymousBob
Footballguy
I realize I often don't write things in the clearest manner but I don't understand what was so confusing about what I wrote.ETA-just caught it. Ooops. I hope you all know what I meant. Griese >>> Grossman.
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Deuce'sWild
Footballguy
Griese will be an upgrade over Grossman is what you meant to type AB
AnonymousBob
Footballguy
Moose and Berrian are the only options for Griese to throw to?
buddyboy
Footballguy
I do think this week vs Detroit should be a good week for Berrian. Over the course of the season I think he takes a slight hit after losing a QB who did lock on to him, to one who I think will spread the ball around. I traded Berrian this week, because I agree with Switz. I also agree the position that will see the most improvement will be TE.
LHUCKS
Footballguy
Really his only options are the TEs and Berrian. Moose can't get open and the RBs aren't much of a factor in this situation.Berrian will continue to get plenty of targets...write it down.
428143
Footballguy
bcr8f
Footballguy
Griese's no Culpepper.
Fantasy Fix Fred
Footballguy
the bears will be more efficient thats for sure with Griese. Rex was a loose cannon behind center. Griese will right the ship this year for the bears. If stinkin Dilfer can do it for the Ravens, Griese should be able to do it for the bears. With that lame comparison I think stone hand berrian will be the same, maybe slightly bump him
mlball77
Footballguy
This is very interesting data, thanks.However, it only is a small portion of the story, imho. The bulk of the story, with regard to future implications, is not who Grossman was passing to when he was picked off the last few times, but it is instead where Grossman's targets typically go (or how they were divided up amongst his receiving options). I'd love to see those if they could easily be provided.Since I see Griese not as a guy that can't throw deep, but as a guy that probably isn't as prone to lock onto Berrian and likely more willing to throw across the middle more (something Grossman does very little it seems), then I think Berrian's numbers drop a bit... and Muhsin and the TE's edge upward.Edit to add: Looks like Berrian has 27 targets to Muhsin's 18. Not as far apart as I thought. Starting to think Maybe the TE's benefit the most from this change...
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