Bernard vs Ellington (1 Viewer)

[hotboyz]

Why is there so much faith that Gio Bernard is gonna have a big yr but so much doubt about Ellington?

I realize the excitement over Hue Jackson being with Bernard but they also drafted one if the top Rb in this Draft class. The only comp for carries Ellington has is Dwyer and Stefon Taylor.

The first thing I hear everyone say is their not sure if Ellington can handle a heavy load. Well him and Bernard are about the same size. Hell they are the same type of player. Gio has AJ and Marvin on the outside to ease pressure Ellington has Fitz Floyd and now Brown. So why all the love for Bernard but questions about Ellington?

 

[need2know]

Gio is the pick here. He really passes the eye test. Ellington has shown flashes, but not as much. Plus I hate arz schedule this year. Gio by a mile for me

 

[hotboyz]

Ellington doesn't pass the eye test he avg 5.5 yds per carry he got bout same rushing yds on 50 less carries. He does have a tough schedule playing the NFC west but Bernard got 6 games games against AFC north

 

[Khy]

Gio is the pick here. He really passes the eye test. Ellington has shown flashes, but not as much. Plus I hate arz schedule this year. Gio by a mile for me

This is complete nonsense... Ellington matched Gio's rushing production on 50 less carries in a harder division on a worse team last season. He averaged 1.4ypc more than Gio and 0.3ypr more. How did he not pass the eye test but someone who produced at a grossly worse rate did? That's like saying "Ehhh... I wasn't too fond of Alfred Morris... but did you see that Trent Richardson?!"

They are both in for the same amount of workload more than likely, difference being Ellington probably has a better path to goal-line carries... and Ellington is available in the third where Gio is gone in the second.

In my opinion you'd have to be taking some kind of crazy pills to draft Gio over Ellington right now. Even if they were at the same ADP I'd want Ellington... if I can get Ellington a round later? Please.

 

[need2know]

Gio is the pick here. He really passes the eye test. Ellington has shown flashes, but not as much. Plus I hate arz schedule this year. Gio by a mile for me

This is complete nonsense... Ellington matched Gio's rushing production on 50 less carries in a harder division on a worse team last season. He averaged 1.4ypc more than Gio and 0.3ypr more. How did he not pass the eye test but someone who produced at a grossly worse rate did? That's like saying "Ehhh... I wasn't too fond of Alfred Morris... but did you see that Trent Richardson?!"

They are both in for the same amount of workload more than likely, difference being Ellington probably has a better path to goal-line carries... and Ellington is available in the third where Gio is gone in the second.

In my opinion you'd have to be taking some kind of crazy pills to draft Gio over Ellington right now. Even if they were at the same ADP I'd want Ellington... if I can get Ellington a round later? Please.

Good points.

I may have to nudge ellington up a bit in my rankings. Still like gio more though

 

[hotboyz]

Gio is the pick here. He really passes the eye test. Ellington has shown flashes, but not as much. Plus I hate arz schedule this year. Gio by a mile for me

This is complete nonsense... Ellington matched Gio's rushing production on 50 less carries in a harder division on a worse team last season. He averaged 1.4ypc more than Gio and 0.3ypr more. How did he not pass the eye test but someone who produced at a grossly worse rate did? That's like saying "Ehhh... I wasn't too fond of Alfred Morris... but did you see that Trent Richardson?!"

They are both in for the same amount of workload more than likely, difference being Ellington probably has a better path to goal-line carries... and Ellington is available in the third where Gio is gone in the second.

In my opinion you'd have to be taking some kind of crazy pills to draft Gio over Ellington right now. Even if they were at the same ADP I'd want Ellington... if I can get Ellington a round later? Please.

Exactly I think u may be able to get Ellington a lil later than that

 

[Banger]

there was a pretty good thread earlier in the year on this exact topic....too lazy to look for it though...

 

[IheartGuinness]

Gio is the pick here. He really passes the eye test. Ellington has shown flashes, but not as much. Plus I hate arz schedule this year. Gio by a mile for me

In my opinion you'd have to be taking some kind of crazy pills to draft Gio over Ellington right now. Even if they were at the same ADP I'd want Ellington... if I can get Ellington a round later? Please.

The defenses on their respective schedules don't give you pause? Seattle, San Fran, St. Louis twice for Ellington...granted, a couple of those are at the tail end of the season and might be after the FF playoffs are complete. But I still think it's enough of a difference to warrant siding with Gio, especially if you're torn between the two.

 

[Captain Hook]

Gio is the pick here. He really passes the eye test. Ellington has shown flashes, but not as much. Plus I hate arz schedule this year. Gio by a mile for me

This is complete nonsense... Ellington matched Gio's rushing production on 50 less carries in a harder division on a worse team last season. He averaged 1.4ypc more than Gio and 0.3ypr more. How did he not pass the eye test but someone who produced at a grossly worse rate did? That's like saying "Ehhh... I wasn't too fond of Alfred Morris... but did you see that Trent Richardson?!"

They are both in for the same amount of workload more than likely, difference being Ellington probably has a better path to goal-line carries... and Ellington is available in the third where Gio is gone in the second.

In my opinion you'd have to be taking some kind of crazy pills to draft Gio over Ellington right now. Even if they were at the same ADP I'd want Ellington... if I can get Ellington a round later? Please.

How about the fact that Gio is the clear bell cow RB (as much as Bengals offense can have one) while Ellington will get lots of touches between more limited carries but more receptions?

I love Ellington and watch him even in practice here but Bernard goes earlier in the second while Ellington is going late second or early third round (in REAL $$ drafts)

 

[bmsarvis]

I think ya might be backwards in that statement bud

 

[zamboni]

I tend to focus a lot less on strength of schedule than most do - you never know which defenses will turn out better than expected, and worse than expected

And I'm admittedly not enough of a scout to see which passes the eyeball test better - both sure seemed to last year

To me, that leaves situation - right now, Ellington's sure seems better since he doesn't *seem* to have the same competition as Bernard does with Hill. Obviously things can change, but I think Gio is being overvalued and Ellington undervalued on situation alone.

 

[hotboyz]

Gio is the pick here. He really passes the eye test. Ellington has shown flashes, but not as much. Plus I hate arz schedule this year. Gio by a mile for me

This is complete nonsense... Ellington matched Gio's rushing production on 50 less carries in a harder division on a worse team last season. He averaged 1.4ypc more than Gio and 0.3ypr more. How did he not pass the eye test but someone who produced at a grossly worse rate did? That's like saying "Ehhh... I wasn't too fond of Alfred Morris... but did you see that Trent Richardson?!"

They are both in for the same amount of workload more than likely, difference being Ellington probably has a better path to goal-line carries... and Ellington is available in the third where Gio is gone in the second.

In my opinion you'd have to be taking some kind of crazy pills to draft Gio over Ellington right now. Even if they were at the same ADP I'd want Ellington... if I can get Ellington a round later? Please.

How about the fact that Gio is the clear bell cow RB (as much as Bengals offense can have one) while Ellington will get lots of touches between more limited carries but more receptions?I love Ellington and watch him even in practice here but Bernard goes earlier in the second while Ellington is going late second or early third round (in REAL $$ drafts)

How do u consider Gio the bell cow wher the team drafted arguably most talented Rb in the draft and still had BJGE meanwhile the only comp for Ellington is Journeyman Jonathan Dwyer and Stefon Taylor?

Ellington is the bellow for Arizona

 

[hotboyz]

Gio is the pick here. He really passes the eye test. Ellington has shown flashes, but not as much. Plus I hate arz schedule this year. Gio by a mile for me

In my opinion you'd have to be taking some kind of crazy pills to draft Gio over Ellington right now. Even if they were at the same ADP I'd want Ellington... if I can get Ellington a round later? Please.

The defenses on their respective schedules don't give you pause? Seattle, San Fran, St. Louis twice for Ellington...granted, a couple of those are at the tail end of the season and might be after the FF playoffs are complete. But I still think it's enough of a difference to warrant siding with Gio, especially if you're torn between the two.

Sure Ellington faces tough defenses but Gio faces Steelers Ravens and Browns twice very good defenses in there own right

 

[Khy]

Gio is the pick here. He really passes the eye test. Ellington has shown flashes, but not as much. Plus I hate arz schedule this year. Gio by a mile for me

In my opinion you'd have to be taking some kind of crazy pills to draft Gio over Ellington right now. Even if they were at the same ADP I'd want Ellington... if I can get Ellington a round later? Please.

The defenses on their respective schedules don't give you pause? Seattle, San Fran, St. Louis twice for Ellington...granted, a couple of those are at the tail end of the season and might be after the FF playoffs are complete. But I still think it's enough of a difference to warrant siding with Gio, especially if you're torn between the two.

Sure... but not really. Last I checked Seattle, San Fran, St Louis and Arizona were all in the same division during Ellington's rookie season last year?

Week 1 - STL - 0s

Week 6 - SF - 7 rushes, 56 yards, 8ypc, 1 TD - 5 rec, 36 yards, 7.2 ypr

Week 7 - SEA - 3 rushes, 3 yards, 1ypc, 0 TD - 2 reception, 10 yards, 5.0ypr

Week 13 - STL - 11 rushes, 46 yards, 4.18ypc, 1 TD - 2 rec, 17 yards, 8.5 ypr

Week 15 - SEA - 15 rushes, 64 yards, 4.27ypc 0 TDs - 2 rec, 8 yards, 4.0 ypr

Week 16 - SF - 9 rushes, 30 yards, 3.3ypc - 3 rec, 12 yards, 4.0ypr

So... we obviously drop the Week 1 game vs STL, I'd say it's fair to drop his 3 carry game against Seattle also. Past that though, he had 42 for 196 yards and 2 TDs and went 14 rec for 83 yards via the air. Averaged out that's about 10.5 carries, 49 yards, 4.6ypc, 0.5TDs and 3.5 rec for 20.75 yards per game.

I'll take 4.6ypc and a 50/50 shot at a TD against the leagues best defenses any day. But that's just me. Gio didn't even average 4.6 yards on the season, let alone against the NFC West. Hell, even if you include his bad 3 rushes for 3 yards game against Seattle, he still averaged 4.42ypc vs Gio's 4.1ypc on the season.

This is an easy no brainer for me, I'm not even sure why it's a debate.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Gio is the pick here. He really passes the eye test. Ellington has shown flashes, but not as much. Plus I hate arz schedule this year. Gio by a mile for me

In my opinion you'd have to be taking some kind of crazy pills to draft Gio over Ellington right now. Even if they were at the same ADP I'd want Ellington... if I can get Ellington a round later? Please.

The defenses on their respective schedules don't give you pause? Seattle, San Fran, St. Louis twice for Ellington...granted, a couple of those are at the tail end of the season and might be after the FF playoffs are complete. But I still think it's enough of a difference to warrant siding with Gio, especially if you're torn between the two.

Sure... but not really. Last I checked Seattle, San Fran, St Louis and Arizona were all in the same division during Ellington's rookie season last year?

Week 1 - STL - 0s

Week 6 - SF - 7 rushes, 56 yards, 8ypc, 1 TD - 5 rec, 36 yards, 7.2 ypr

Week 7 - SEA - 3 rushes, 3 yards, 1ypc, 0 TD - 2 reception, 10 yards, 5.0ypr

Week 13 - STL - 11 rushes, 46 yards, 4.18ypc, 1 TD - 2 rec, 17 yards, 8.5 ypr

Week 15 - SEA - 15 rushes, 64 yards, 4.27ypc 0 TDs - 2 rec, 8 yards, 4.0 ypr

Week 16 - SF - 9 rushes, 30 yards, 3.3ypc - 3 rec, 12 yards, 4.0ypr

So... we obviously drop the Week 1 game vs STL, I'd say it's fair to drop his 3 carry game against Seattle also. Past that though, he had 42 for 196 yards and 2 TDs and went 14 rec for 83 yards via the air. Averaged out that's about 10.5 carries, 49 yards, 4.6ypc, 0.5TDs and 3.5 rec for 20.75 yards per game.

I'll take 4.6ypc and a 50/50 shot at a TD against the leagues best defenses any day. But that's just me. Gio didn't even average 4.6 yards on the season, let alone against the NFC West. Hell, even if you include his bad 3 rushes for 3 yards game against Seattle, he still averaged 4.42ypc vs Gio's 4.1ypc on the season.

This is an easy no brainer for me, I'm not even sure why it's a debate.

Wait, so you think demonstrating that a guy averaged 70 total yards per game supports the premise that his opposing defenses are no major concern? What am I missing here?

 

[Khy]

Gio is the pick here. He really passes the eye test. Ellington has shown flashes, but not as much. Plus I hate arz schedule this year. Gio by a mile for me

In my opinion you'd have to be taking some kind of crazy pills to draft Gio over Ellington right now. Even if they were at the same ADP I'd want Ellington... if I can get Ellington a round later? Please.

The defenses on their respective schedules don't give you pause? Seattle, San Fran, St. Louis twice for Ellington...granted, a couple of those are at the tail end of the season and might be after the FF playoffs are complete. But I still think it's enough of a difference to warrant siding with Gio, especially if you're torn between the two.

Sure... but not really. Last I checked Seattle, San Fran, St Louis and Arizona were all in the same division during Ellington's rookie season last year?

Week 1 - STL - 0s

Week 6 - SF - 7 rushes, 56 yards, 8ypc, 1 TD - 5 rec, 36 yards, 7.2 ypr

Week 7 - SEA - 3 rushes, 3 yards, 1ypc, 0 TD - 2 reception, 10 yards, 5.0ypr

Week 13 - STL - 11 rushes, 46 yards, 4.18ypc, 1 TD - 2 rec, 17 yards, 8.5 ypr

Week 15 - SEA - 15 rushes, 64 yards, 4.27ypc 0 TDs - 2 rec, 8 yards, 4.0 ypr

Week 16 - SF - 9 rushes, 30 yards, 3.3ypc - 3 rec, 12 yards, 4.0ypr

So... we obviously drop the Week 1 game vs STL, I'd say it's fair to drop his 3 carry game against Seattle also. Past that though, he had 42 for 196 yards and 2 TDs and went 14 rec for 83 yards via the air. Averaged out that's about 10.5 carries, 49 yards, 4.6ypc, 0.5TDs and 3.5 rec for 20.75 yards per game.

I'll take 4.6ypc and a 50/50 shot at a TD against the leagues best defenses any day. But that's just me. Gio didn't even average 4.6 yards on the season, let alone against the NFC West. Hell, even if you include his bad 3 rushes for 3 yards game against Seattle, he still averaged 4.42ypc vs Gio's 4.1ypc on the season.

This is an easy no brainer for me, I'm not even sure why it's a debate.

Wait, so you think demonstrating that a guy averaged 70 total yards per game supports the premise that his opposing defenses are no major concern? What am I missing here?

A guy that averaged 70 total yards per game vs the top defenses in the league on an average of 14 touches a game? Yeah... I do, what? Also, yards per game is an awful stat to every look for fantasy value from. We're talking about a guy that had less than 10 touches in 10 of his 15 games and somehow still almost had the same production as Gio (and from a point-per-touch standpoint) he did better.

Gio PPT in standard PPR - 0.93/ppt

Ellington PPT in standard PPR - 1.08/ppt

By comparison:

Charles - 1.15/ppt

McCoy - 0.84/ppt

Forte - 0.82/ppt

So Ellington played in a tougher division, with a significantly worse offensive line, a significantly worse offense and with much less opportunity and at every turn and point produced at a better clip than Gio last year. People seem to be blinded by the fact that Ellington was a 6th Round draft pick and Gio was a 2nd rounder. Were they both great from a PPT standpoint? Sure, the only guy who beat any of them out really was Charles. Either one could be a Top 5 RB this season with enough opportunity. Ellington has a much clearer path to said opportunity, he doesn't have a Jeremy Hill and BJGE stealing carries and more importantly goal-line touches from him and you can get him over a full round later in the draft.

 

[Dondante]

Should there really be any debate at all over two guys probably separated by 5 or 8 picks in a snake draft? NFC West is tough but it's not "zero rushing TDs" tough. Besides, all of the offenses in the NFCW are better this year - maybe even markedly so. I have less faith in the AFCN offenses AND defenses than I do in the NFCW. Either way I don't think you can go wrong with either of these two guys. That being said I think if you're really being honest with yourselves, Ray Rice is the same basic player as these two this year as well.

Also, in auction drafts you can easily acquire both of these players (all three, even).

Don oot

 

[jurb26]

Gio is the pick here. He really passes the eye test. Ellington has shown flashes, but not as much. Plus I hate arz schedule this year. Gio by a mile for me

In my opinion you'd have to be taking some kind of crazy pills to draft Gio over Ellington right now. Even if they were at the same ADP I'd want Ellington... if I can get Ellington a round later? Please.

The defenses on their respective schedules don't give you pause? Seattle, San Fran, St. Louis twice for Ellington...granted, a couple of those are at the tail end of the season and might be after the FF playoffs are complete. But I still think it's enough of a difference to warrant siding with Gio, especially if you're torn between the two.

Sure... but not really. Last I checked Seattle, San Fran, St Louis and Arizona were all in the same division during Ellington's rookie season last year?

Week 1 - STL - 0s

Week 6 - SF - 7 rushes, 56 yards, 8ypc, 1 TD - 5 rec, 36 yards, 7.2 ypr

Week 7 - SEA - 3 rushes, 3 yards, 1ypc, 0 TD - 2 reception, 10 yards, 5.0ypr

Week 13 - STL - 11 rushes, 46 yards, 4.18ypc, 1 TD - 2 rec, 17 yards, 8.5 ypr

Week 15 - SEA - 15 rushes, 64 yards, 4.27ypc 0 TDs - 2 rec, 8 yards, 4.0 ypr

Week 16 - SF - 9 rushes, 30 yards, 3.3ypc - 3 rec, 12 yards, 4.0ypr

So... we obviously drop the Week 1 game vs STL, I'd say it's fair to drop his 3 carry game against Seattle also. Past that though, he had 42 for 196 yards and 2 TDs and went 14 rec for 83 yards via the air. Averaged out that's about 10.5 carries, 49 yards, 4.6ypc, 0.5TDs and 3.5 rec for 20.75 yards per game.

I'll take 4.6ypc and a 50/50 shot at a TD against the leagues best defenses any day. But that's just me. Gio didn't even average 4.6 yards on the season, let alone against the NFC West. Hell, even if you include his bad 3 rushes for 3 yards game against Seattle, he still averaged 4.42ypc vs Gio's 4.1ypc on the season.

This is an easy no brainer for me, I'm not even sure why it's a debate.

Wait, so you think demonstrating that a guy averaged 70 total yards per game supports the premise that his opposing defenses are no major concern? What am I missing here?

A guy that averaged 70 total yards per game vs the top defenses in the league on an average of 14 touches a game? Yeah... I do, what? Also, yards per game is an awful stat to every look for fantasy value from. We're talking about a guy that had less than 10 touches in 10 of his 15 games and somehow still almost had the same production as Gio (and from a point-per-touch standpoint) he did better.

Gio PPT in standard PPR - 0.93/ppt

Ellington PPT in standard PPR - 1.08/ppt

By comparison:

Charles - 1.15/ppt

McCoy - 0.84/ppt

Forte - 0.82/ppt

So Ellington played in a tougher division, with a significantly worse offensive line, a significantly worse offense and with much less opportunity and at every turn and point produced at a better clip than Gio last year. People seem to be blinded by the fact that Ellington was a 6th Round draft pick and Gio was a 2nd rounder. Were they both great from a PPT standpoint? Sure, the only guy who beat any of them out really was Charles. Either one could be a Top 5 RB this season with enough opportunity. Ellington has a much clearer path to said opportunity, he doesn't have a Jeremy Hill and BJGE stealing carries and more importantly goal-line touches from him and you can get him over a full round later in the draft.

Totally agree with Khy on this and think he's made great pions throughout the thread. I'm not sure why, but Gio backers seem to be a highly passionate group and I think he's actually been one of the more overrated players in fantasy for about 7 months. I'll take Ellington here. The only way I see Gio out scoring him is injury to either Ellington or Hill.

 

[Banger]

The gap between the two was very large months ago and has been steadily closing. I still prefer Ellington given his draft position but he's getting more pricey. By the time I draft they'll likely be pretty much side by side which they probably should be.

 

[Dondante]

Gio is the pick here. He really passes the eye test. Ellington has shown flashes, but not as much. Plus I hate arz schedule this year. Gio by a mile for me

In my opinion you'd have to be taking some kind of crazy pills to draft Gio over Ellington right now. Even if they were at the same ADP I'd want Ellington... if I can get Ellington a round later? Please.

The defenses on their respective schedules don't give you pause? Seattle, San Fran, St. Louis twice for Ellington...granted, a couple of those are at the tail end of the season and might be after the FF playoffs are complete. But I still think it's enough of a difference to warrant siding with Gio, especially if you're torn between the two.

Sure... but not really. Last I checked Seattle, San Fran, St Louis and Arizona were all in the same division during Ellington's rookie season last year?

Week 1 - STL - 0s

Week 6 - SF - 7 rushes, 56 yards, 8ypc, 1 TD - 5 rec, 36 yards, 7.2 ypr

Week 7 - SEA - 3 rushes, 3 yards, 1ypc, 0 TD - 2 reception, 10 yards, 5.0ypr

Week 13 - STL - 11 rushes, 46 yards, 4.18ypc, 1 TD - 2 rec, 17 yards, 8.5 ypr

Week 15 - SEA - 15 rushes, 64 yards, 4.27ypc 0 TDs - 2 rec, 8 yards, 4.0 ypr

Week 16 - SF - 9 rushes, 30 yards, 3.3ypc - 3 rec, 12 yards, 4.0ypr

So... we obviously drop the Week 1 game vs STL, I'd say it's fair to drop his 3 carry game against Seattle also. Past that though, he had 42 for 196 yards and 2 TDs and went 14 rec for 83 yards via the air. Averaged out that's about 10.5 carries, 49 yards, 4.6ypc, 0.5TDs and 3.5 rec for 20.75 yards per game.

I'll take 4.6ypc and a 50/50 shot at a TD against the leagues best defenses any day. But that's just me. Gio didn't even average 4.6 yards on the season, let alone against the NFC West. Hell, even if you include his bad 3 rushes for 3 yards game against Seattle, he still averaged 4.42ypc vs Gio's 4.1ypc on the season.

This is an easy no brainer for me, I'm not even sure why it's a debate.

Wait, so you think demonstrating that a guy averaged 70 total yards per game supports the premise that his opposing defenses are no major concern? What am I missing here?

A guy that averaged 70 total yards per game vs the top defenses in the league on an average of 14 touches a game? Yeah... I do, what? Also, yards per game is an awful stat to every look for fantasy value from. We're talking about a guy that had less than 10 touches in 10 of his 15 games and somehow still almost had the same production as Gio (and from a point-per-touch standpoint) he did better.

Gio PPT in standard PPR - 0.93/ppt

Ellington PPT in standard PPR - 1.08/ppt

By comparison:

Charles - 1.15/ppt

McCoy - 0.84/ppt

Forte - 0.82/ppt

So Ellington played in a tougher division, with a significantly worse offensive line, a significantly worse offense and with much less opportunity and at every turn and point produced at a better clip than Gio last year. People seem to be blinded by the fact that Ellington was a 6th Round draft pick and Gio was a 2nd rounder. Were they both great from a PPT standpoint? Sure, the only guy who beat any of them out really was Charles. Either one could be a Top 5 RB this season with enough opportunity. Ellington has a much clearer path to said opportunity, he doesn't have a Jeremy Hill and BJGE stealing carries and more importantly goal-line touches from him and you can get him over a full round later in the draft.

Totally agree with Khy on this and think he's made great pions throughout the thread. I'm not sure why, but Gio backers seem to be a highly passionate group and I think he's actually been one of the more overrated players in fantasy for about 7 months. I'll take Ellington here. The only way I see Gio out scoring him is injury to either Ellington or Hill.

Sure, but by how much?

 

[Khy]

The gap between the two was very large months ago and has been steadily closing. I still prefer Ellington given his draft position but he's getting more pricey. By the time I draft they'll likely be pretty much side by side which they probably should be.

Sure, if their draft position gets closer than it's a different discussion. But I did my FBG PC draft last weekend, Gio went at 2.03 so I couldn't have even gotten him in the 2nd if I wanted too (drafting out of the 5 hole) I was able to swing around and grab Antonio Brown at 2.08 (Calvin at 1.05) and then come back and get Ellington at 3.05 as I liked him better than the other RBs on the board and Cameron went the pick right before me otherwise I'd probably have went Cameron. That's besides the point though... the gap between Gio and Ellington there was 14 picks, that's over a round later for a guy who should produce almost the exact same as Gio if not better. Even if Gio was available I'd have still probably prefered to go Antonio Brown into Ellington instead of the alternative which would've been something along the lines of Gio in the 2nd followed by Garcon or Andre Johnson in the 3rd.

 

[hotboyz]

That was my whole point of starting this thread I keep hearing everyone say they not sure Ellington can be a full time back but why not the same concern for Gio? It's amazing how identical these 2 players are but the feeling on them is so completely opposite and I'm trying to understand why

 

[Banger]

That was my whole point of starting this thread I keep hearing everyone say they not sure Ellington can be a full time back but why not the same concern for Gio? It's amazing how identical these 2 players are but the feeling on them is so completely opposite and I'm trying to understand why

draft position and probably seeing Gio on Hard Knocks.

 

[Khy]

That was my whole point of starting this thread I keep hearing everyone say they not sure Ellington can be a full time back but why not the same concern for Gio? It's amazing how identical these 2 players are but the feeling on them is so completely opposite and I'm trying to understand why

Welcome to the Shark Pool, where tons of people (myself included at time) spew complete nonsensical irrational thoughts just to conform to their own bias against or for a player. There are people on these boards that have been pounding their chest about David Wilson's retirement because they said he was too small to play in this league without being hurt and they were right. When they really weren't, he didn't get hurt he had a undiagnosed spinal condition which was unforeseen by everyone.

Same thing goes for Ellington and Gio. Rotoworld lists Gio at 5' 9" and 208lbs and Ellington at 5' 9" and 199lbs. However, a recent report from Cards GM Steve Keim stated that Ellington added about 8-10lbs this offseason which would make him around 207-209lbs or you know... the exact same size to the oz as Gio Bernard. Yet, you don't here even 1/8 as many posts about Gio being too small for a feature back role as you do for Ellington.

Either way, what is this deal with people thinking that some how a difference of 8lbs immediately transforms a guy from "too small, will get hurt" to "man, he's built just right, he's small and shift, but big and compact all at the same time"? There is no possible way you can ever convince me that 8-10lbs is the difference between a guy being too small or too big. If I take a big dump before I go to bed I'll wake up and the scale will tell me I'm 3-5lbs lighter than I was the night before, there's no feasible way that type of weight has that much bearing on a players ability to take hits.

 

[IheartGuinness]

Gio is the pick here. He really passes the eye test. Ellington has shown flashes, but not as much. Plus I hate arz schedule this year. Gio by a mile for me

Yes, I think so, too. I only play in PPR leagues, and if Ellington falls to me in the right spot, I'll certainly draft him. But between the two, I'd rather have Gio. More receptions, receiving yards, and TDs last year.

 

[Khy]

Gio is the pick here. He really passes the eye test. Ellington has shown flashes, but not as much. Plus I hate arz schedule this year. Gio by a mile for me

Yes, I think so, too. I only play in PPR leagues, and if Ellington falls to me in the right spot, I'll certainly draft him. But between the two, I'd rather have Gio. More receptions, receiving yards, and TDs last year.

True, but misleading. Gio only had 3/16 games under 10 total touches, compared to Ellington who had 6/16 under 10 touches. Ellington averaged more yardage per touch by a huge margin (5.34 for Gio vs 6.52 for Ellington).

If we subtract the games under 10 touches from each of them Gio averaged 15.85 touches/game at 5.28 yards per touch vs Ellington who averaged 13.3 touches/game at 6.56 yards per touch. Comes out to about 83.68 ypg for Gio vs 87.25 ypg for Ellington. Ellington outproduced Gio on every-single-level last season except TD production and it wasn't even particularly close. Gio will probably have around 10 or so more receptions than him this season but lose out on every other stat to Ellington. The only reason Gio had more TDs last year is because Ellington was being used a significant amount less per game and he had Mendy stealing most of the short yardage/goal line carries last season. This year he's the only game in town, meanwhile Gio has to compete with likely the best short yardage back in this years draft for TDs in Hill.

 

[Ditka Butkus]

I think Bernard has better talent backing him up which may cut into his carries in fact I just read a blurb on Rotoworld that Cincinnati plans on giving Hill 10-15 carries per game.

ETA:

The Cincinnati Enquirer's Paul Dehner expects Bengals second-round RB Jeremy Hill to see 10-15 carries per game.
Dehner also believes there's "no chance" BenJarvus Green-Ellis wins the short-yardage job over Hill behind Giovani Bernard. If Hill is to see 10-15 totes a week, he'd finish the season in the 160-240 carries range. While anything over 200 might be asking too much, the writing is on the wall for Hill to be a major contributor as OC Hue Jackson implements his run-heavy tendencies. We've been hammering Hill as a real value pick at his current late-9th-round ADP. Aug 6 - 6:54 PM

 

[maf005]

Extrapolating starting rbs projections based on #s gained primarily in a passing down role is a precarious task

 

[IheartGuinness]

I think Bernard has better talent backing him up which may cut into his carries in fact I just read a blurb on Rotoworld that Cincinnati plans on giving Hill 10-15 carries per game.

ETA:

The Cincinnati Enquirer's Paul Dehner expects Bengals second-round RB Jeremy Hill to see 10-15 carries per game.
Dehner also believes there's "no chance" BenJarvus Green-Ellis wins the short-yardage job over Hill behind Giovani Bernard. If Hill is to see 10-15 totes a week, he'd finish the season in the 160-240 carries range. While anything over 200 might be asking too much, the writing is on the wall for Hill to be a major contributor as OC Hue Jackson implements his run-heavy tendencies. We've been hammering Hill as a real value pick at his current late-9th-round ADP. Aug 6 - 6:54 PM

I just don't see the rookie making that much of an impact. He'll be a factor, but it's not like Gio is Steven Jackson or Frank Gore--in other words, he's not at the tail-end of a long career that logged extensive miles. I realize that Hill's role is more to complement than it is to usurp, but I still think Gio will be given plenty of opportunities to shine.

 

[Banger]

Last year BJGE had 220 carries and Gio had 170 for a total of 390 carries

Last year Mendy had 217 carries and Ellington had 118 with 54 carries for other for a total of 389 carries

This year BJGE is either gone or barely plays and Mendy is gone in AZ. I think it's very likely that both guys slip into the starter roles and end up very similar in carries...probably around 240 or so with the remainder split among the Hill on Cincy and Taylor/Dwyer in AZ.

 

[haterade]

Someone should mention AZs much improved o-line.

I guess that someone is me.

I think the historical dearth of successful runners in AZ is blinding people to just how good a season El had last season.

 

[jurb26]

Someone should mention AZs much improved o-line.

I guess that someone is me.

I think the historical dearth of successful runners in AZ is blinding people to just how good a season El had last season.

Arz should be massively improved up front this year and I've been driving that bus for a while. I'm going to have to start pumping the breaks a little though. Cooper is apparently not looking good in camp and is showing linger effects of the broken leg from last year. It may me another full season before he shows what he can really do. I, still a fan of their improvement, just a little less so.

 

[Griffindor]

I think Bernard has better talent backing him up which may cut into his carries in fact I just read a blurb on Rotoworld that Cincinnati plans on giving Hill 10-15 carries per game.

ETA:

The Cincinnati Enquirer's Paul Dehner expects Bengals second-round RB Jeremy Hill to see 10-15 carries per game.
Dehner also believes there's "no chance" BenJarvus Green-Ellis wins the short-yardage job over Hill behind Giovani Bernard. If Hill is to see 10-15 totes a week, he'd finish the season in the 160-240 carries range. While anything over 200 might be asking too much, the writing is on the wall for Hill to be a major contributor as OC Hue Jackson implements his run-heavy tendencies. We've been hammering Hill as a real value pick at his current late-9th-round ADP. Aug 6 - 6:54 PM

That's not what that blurb says.