Best Buy can kiss my fanny good-bye (1 Viewer)

[Politician Spock]

Not in this case, Spock. Follow the quotes.

Time to humor the drunk:

Perhaps I should try bartering some Christmas cookies for some fruit at the grocery store. After all they sell Christmas cookies don't they?

Hey, if they're willing to accept it, why not?

Ethics

Please keep up.

 

[Politician Spock]

Oh, I see. Kind of the same way I paid for my item by giving them 2 items in exchange.

Yes, and if they were items they didn't sell, you defrauded them. I wasn't the one who claimed you defrauded them. It depends on whether or not they sell what you gave them.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

and I'm saying they paid for those items in credit given.

Credit. Not cash. Merchandise. Not cash. They exchanged merchandise for merchandise. As did I.

 

[Sam Quentin]

Is negotiation unethical?

 

[Ragg]

If we lived in a barter society, then have at it.

It's unethical to barter because it is not the way that transactions are typically conducted in the U.S. these days? So I can trade my goods/services for money (we call this "working") and in turn trade that money for different goods/services ("shopping"). But I can't eliminate the money part and do it in one step?Actually I just saw a piece on TV the other day about how many small businesses are bartering goods and services to save themselves money. So maybe soon we will be "living in a barter society".

 

[Gatorman]

I just wanted to add that I loved this thread.The first time, when it was GRID at Blockbuster.

Exactly, especially since grid pulls off being sanctamonius (sp) much better than GM does.

i've never tried that look on for style.can you teach me?

Nope, I can't wear it either, and neither of us can pull it off like Grid.Anyhoo....carry on.Melly on the side of truth and honesty is what makes reading this worthwhile. Just don't let those Mafia guys you do business with hear about it or you may just end up like Ralphy.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Yes, and if they were items they didn't sell, you defrauded them. I wasn't the one who claimed you defrauded them. It depends on whether or not they sell what you gave them.

they sell what I gave them. They sell many more of what I gave them than they sell what I got in return, although I admit that's only a way of justifying something that is clearly unethical.

 

[MelvinTScupper]

Credit. Not cash. Merchandise. Not cash. They exchanged merchandise for merchandise. As did I.

where did they mislead the customer again?try www.dictionary.com for the definition of fraud

 

[Bob Sacamano]

So maybe soon we will be "living in a barter society".

Just don't try to trade Melvin for a sheep. Prices are

 

[MelvinTScupper]

It's unethical to barter because it is not the way that transactions are typically conducted in the U.S. these days? So I can trade my goods/services for money (we call this "working") and in turn trade that money for different goods/services ("shopping"). But I can't eliminate the money part and do it in one step?Actually I just saw a piece on TV the other day about how many small businesses are bartering goods and services to save themselves money. So maybe soon we will be "living in a barter society".

good luck.I hope your "work for free shirts" works out well for you.

 

[MelvinTScupper]

Just don't try to trade Melvin for a sheep. Prices are

congrats on your 100th post, btw - glad to see all it took to get you active was lying/cheating/misleading major corporations.Welcome.

 

[Politician Spock]

Is negotiation unethical?

Depends on what type of negotiating it is. Extortion is seen by many as unethical. For example, you will pay me $50,000 or I tell the press about the prostitutes you paid for on the company dime. That is extortion that threatens the company's future.Is that much different than: you give me fruit for these cookies or I will never shop here again and neither will the 50 people that know me. We could split hairs on the equality of these examples, but it's obvious that not all types of negotiation are ethical.

 

[Gatorman]

Just don't try to trade Melvin for a sheep. Prices are

To Melvin, sheep are more than just commodities to be bartered for, and yes this smiley still applies: baaaa!

 

[Bob Sacamano]

where did they mislead the customer again?try www.dictionary.com for the definition of fraud

"A deception deliberately practiced in order to secure unfair or unlawful gain"I didn't gain from the transaction. Both parties ended up at least as well off as they were. If anything, I gave up more value than I got in return. Those bastards defrauded me!!! Edit: thanks for pointing this out Melvin. I owe you one.

 

[Ragg]

Yes, and if they were items they didn't sell, you defrauded them. I wasn't the one who claimed you defrauded them. It depends on whether or not they sell what you gave them.

Why, they can't take an item they normally don't sell and sell it? Or take it and return it to someone who does sell it? Meanwhile they have a happy customer walking around their store with money/credit in their pocket.

 

[MelvinTScupper]

where did they mislead the customer again?try www.dictionary.com for the definition of fraud

"A deception deliberately practiced in order to secure unfair or unlawful gain"I didn't gain from the transaction. Both parties ended up at least as well off as they were. If anything, I gave up more value than I got in return. Those bastards defrauded me!!! Edit: thanks for pointing this out Melvin. I owe you one.

deception - pretending you bought the DVD's at Targetdeliberate - removing Best Buy stickersto secure gain - new DVDunfair - you didn't buy them, you don't know what was paidunlawful - see deceptionyep, sums it up nicely

 

[Bob Sacamano]

congrats on your 100th post, btw - glad to see all it took to get you active was lying/cheating/misleading major corporations.Welcome.

Thanks! I wouldn't consider myself acive, though. I just feel the need to stop lurking occasionally to right egregious wrongs.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

to secure gain - new DVD

But I had TWO new DVDs. 2<1Try to keep up here.

 

[scoobygang]

Thanks! I wouldn't consider myself acive, though. I just feel the need to stop lurking occasionally to right egregious wrongs.

You don't give yourself enough credit.Savvy FFA vets will always remember you as the man who outed Kid C. as Air Conditioner.The finest piece of investigative journalism to ever grace the yellow board.

 

[General Malaise]

Time to humor the drunk:

Perhaps I should try bartering some Christmas cookies for some fruit at the grocery store. After all they sell Christmas cookies don't they? 

Hey, if they're willing to accept it, why not? 

Ethics 

Please keep up.

My, aren't we being a pompous ####! You know, for somebody that likes to sit on his high pedestal of retail glory and call people arses, you might want to stop and consider your own behavior, lest the peons beneath you discover you have no clothes.Let's review...QUOTE (General Malaise @ Dec 30 2003, 11:19 AM)

They are just trying to make Bob look unethical because it helps their stance here. This is the same mentality that went into the hounding of Chemical Beagle over the Pier1 thread.I too have returned unopened CD's to a store (Fred Meyer) that I received as a gift and exchanged the CDs for something else. No receipt. Fred Meyer could have told me to get lost or prove that the CD was purchased there, but they didn't. They said "Yeah, we'll take that in exchange".

Melvin's reply:

just so we're clearethics = what you can get away with?

This is where Captain Retail steps in...

That's pretty much the direction American society is heading.

YEAH....stupid people.My reply:

you're being obtuse on purpose. it was Fred Meyer's decision to either take the CD or not. The decision rested on their shoulders and they gladly accepted.Ethics has nothing to do with the transaction above and you know that.

To which you say:

Again, the ethics response was in regards to Christmas Cookies for fruit, not DVDs.

BUT NOT IN THIS EXAMPLE!So I said "Follow the quotes, Spock", but instead of doing that, you picked earlier quotes that weren't at all pertinent to what I was discussing, then preceded to insult me for the 100th time in this thread.Jeez....you try and keep up.

 

[MelvinTScupper]

to secure gain - new DVD

But I had TWO new DVDs. 2<1Try to keep up here.

big ####### deal....2 DVD's of Police Academy 5 < 1 DVD of LOTR - Two Towerskeep up

 

[scoobygang]

to secure gain - new DVD

But I had TWO new DVDs. 2<1Try to keep up here.

big ####### deal....2 DVD's of Police Academy 5 < 1 DVD of LOTR - Two Towerskeep up

Sure, but I do believe he already specified that he had two major release DVDs that he wished to exchange for an obscure concert DVD. So in this instance, that particular critique is moot.

 

[Ragg]

deception - pretending you bought the DVD's at Targetdeliberate - removing Best Buy stickersto secure gain - new DVDunfair - you didn't buy them, you don't know what was paidunlawful - see deceptionyep, sums it up nicely

So your whole problem is that he removed the Best Buy stickers? If he had left them on or told they guy at Target where they came from then this would all be ok? What if Bob's sister had removed them and he didn't know where she got them - still ok? What if she casually mentioned that she often shops at Best Buy, or did most of her Christmas shopping there this year? Still ok? How much does he have to "disclose" to the guy at Target to stay north of the Mason-Dixon line of ethics? Target had every opportunity to ask for proof (receipt). They didn't because they wanted the business. Policies like this will not drive Target out of business, it will help them grow.

 

[MelvinTScupper]

to secure gain - new DVD

But I had TWO new DVDs. 2<1Try to keep up here.

big ####### deal....2 DVD's of Police Academy 5 < 1 DVD of LOTR - Two Towerskeep up

Sure, but I do believe he already specified that he had two major release DVDs that he wished to exchange for an obscure concert DVD. So in this instance, that particular critique is moot.

not if the obtuse concert DVD is > the two new releases. It's not like he's giving them money, so I ain't buying this. They gave him the credit for the two DVD's he misled them into believing were theirs. He spent the credit.I guarantee you, if they knew the facts, he wouldn't have been able to process this transaction.

 

[MelvinTScupper]

If he had left them on or told they guy at Target where they came from then this would all be ok?

yes

 

[General Malaise]

to secure gain - new DVD

But I had TWO new DVDs. 2<1Try to keep up here.

big ####### deal....2 DVD's of Police Academy 5 < 1 DVD of LOTR - Two Towerskeep up

Only in your little realm of nerdom, supper.

 

[Ragg]

big ####### deal....2 DVD's of Police Academy 5 < 1 DVD of LOTR - Two Towers

Bite your tongue! PA5 was a CLASSIC!

 

[Bob Sacamano]

It's not like he's giving them money, so I ain't buying this.

Would you exchange it?

 

[Ragg]

Would you exchange it?

:rotflmao:

 

[MelvinTScupper]

to secure gain - new DVD

But I had TWO new DVDs. 2<1Try to keep up here.

big ####### deal....2 DVD's of Police Academy 5 < 1 DVD of LOTR - Two Towerskeep up

Only in your little realm of nerdom, supper.

opened myself up for that one....I suppose some porn movie would have been a better example for you?

 

[MelvinTScupper]

Would you exchange it?

only with a receipt.

 

[Sam Quentin]

For example, you will pay me $50,000 or I tell the press about the prostitutes you paid for on the company dime. That is extortion that threatens the company's future.

American Beauty -- Good filmIn this example, what specifically about the negotiation process is unethical?

 

[General Malaise]

to secure gain - new DVD

But I had TWO new DVDs. 2<1Try to keep up here.

big ####### deal....2 DVD's of Police Academy 5 < 1 DVD of LOTR - Two Towerskeep up

Only in your little realm of nerdom, supper.

opened myself up for that one....I suppose some porn movie would have been a better example for you?

now you're being stupid.Porno DVD's aren't sold at Target OR Best Buy.

 

[MelvinTScupper]

to secure gain - new DVD

But I had TWO new DVDs. 2<1Try to keep up here.

big ####### deal....2 DVD's of Police Academy 5 < 1 DVD of LOTR - Two Towerskeep up

Only in your little realm of nerdom, supper.

opened myself up for that one....I suppose some porn movie would have been a better example for you?

now you're being stupid.Porno DVD's aren't sold at Target OR Best Buy.

see, now THAT's a valid reason to hate them

 

[jplvr]

to secure gain - new DVD

But I had TWO new DVDs. 2<1Try to keep up here.

big ####### deal....2 DVD's of Police Academy 5 < 1 DVD of LOTR - Two Towerskeep up

Sure, but I do believe he already specified that he had two major release DVDs that he wished to exchange for an obscure concert DVD. So in this instance, that particular critique is moot.

not if the obtuse concert DVD is > the two new releases. It's not like he's giving them money, so I ain't buying this. They gave him the credit for the two DVD's he misled them into believing were theirs. He spent the credit.I guarantee you, if they knew the facts, he wouldn't have been able to process this transaction.

I think Kramer's buddy already pointed out that Target gave him the lowest price that the DVD's had sold for in the past (whatever time period). He then used the credit for those lowest prices to buy something that no one probably was going to buy anyway. Again, what is the problem?You seem to think that Target was victimized by Bob because they inferred that he bought the DVD's at a Target by taking them back there. Target really doesn't give a #### where he bought the thing as long as he's taking the lowest possible price in exchange. Many people don't know where the gifts they get came from. If I had a DVD, knew Target sold them, and there was a Target a block from my house, I'd probably go there first to look to exchange a gift. They get a DVD and I get store credit to spend there. If they don't do it, I move along to the next closest place. One place I wait in line and receive something for my troubles. The other place I do not. Which place do you think that I'll remember in a good light?

 

[MelvinTScupper]

He then used the credit for those lowest prices to buy something that no one probably was going to buy anyway. Again, what is the problem?

you're right, Target sure is lucky to have customers who will take junk off their hands, and get great DVD's they can mark back up and make a ton of dough.

 

[Politician Spock]

Why, they can't take an item they normally don't sell and sell it? Or take it and return it to someone who does sell it? Meanwhile they have a happy customer walking around their store with money/credit in their pocket.

Believing the store sells what you are returning is inherent to your choice in returning it to them, or else you would just return a DVD to hardware store because it is close to you. If you return a product to Circuit City believing they sell it when in fact they don't and convince the employee to take the return, then yes you have in fact defruded them. They probably will sell it, but probably not even close to the amount of credit they gave you for it.

 

[Sam Quentin]

Believing the store sells what you are returning is inherent to your choice in returning it to them, or else you would just return a DVD to hardware store because it is close to you. If you return a product to Circuit City believing they sell it when in fact they don't and convince the employee to take the return, then yes you have in fact defruded them. They probably will sell it, but probably not even close to the amount of credit they gave you for it.

:wacko:

 

[General Malaise]

Believing the store sells what you are returning is inherent to your choice in returning it to them, or else you would just return a DVD to hardware store because it is close to you. If you return a product to Circuit City believing they sell it when in fact they don't and convince the employee to take the return, then yes you have in fact defruded them. They probably will sell it, but probably not even close to the amount of credit they gave you for it.

Is fraud a two way street? What if they credit him far lower for what they sell the product? Is that fraud or just good business?

 

[Politician Spock]

Time to humor the drunk:

Perhaps I should try bartering some Christmas cookies for some fruit at the grocery store. After all they sell Christmas cookies don't they? 

Hey, if they're willing to accept it, why not? 

Ethics 

Please keep up.

My, aren't we being a pompous ####! You know, for somebody that likes to sit on his high pedestal of retail glory and call people arses, you might want to stop and consider your own behavior, lest the peons beneath you discover you have no clothes.Let's review...QUOTE (General Malaise @ Dec 30 2003, 11:19 AM)

They are just trying to make Bob look unethical because it helps their stance here.  This is the same mentality that went into the hounding of Chemical Beagle over the Pier1 thread.I too have returned unopened CD's to a store (Fred Meyer) that I received as a gift and exchanged the CDs for something else.  No receipt.  Fred Meyer could have told me to get lost or prove that the CD was purchased there, but they didn't.  They said "Yeah, we'll take that in exchange".

Melvin's reply:

just so we're clearethics = what you can get away with?

This is where Captain Retail steps in... YEAH....stupid people.My reply:

you're being obtuse on purpose. it was Fred Meyer's decision to either take the CD or not. The decision rested on their shoulders and they gladly accepted.Ethics has nothing to do with the transaction above and you know that.

To which you say:BUT NOT IN THIS EXAMPLE!So I said "Follow the quotes, Spock", but instead of doing that, you picked earlier quotes that weren't at all pertinent to what I was discussing, then preceded to insult me for the 100th time in this thread.Jeez....you try and keep up.

GM, Please try to keep up. I was the first one to mention the word "ethics", but it was in response to the Chrirtmas Cookies/Fruit transaction. It was MelvinTScupper and yourself that applied ethics to the DVD transaction. I never agreed with MelvinTScupper appying ethics to the DVD transacation, but posted that his definition of "ethics" is pretty much the direction American society is heading. If you have an problem with the DVD/ethics issue, take it up with MelvinTScupper. I never agreed with him.

 

[MelvinTScupper]

Is fraud a two way street? What if they credit him far lower for what they sell the product? Is that fraud or just good business?

does he have a receipt? of course it is, if they knowingly give him less than he paid.

 

[Courtjester]

Go Melvin!!! Fight the good fight!!

 

[Sam Quentin]

For example, you will pay me $50,000 or I tell the press about the prostitutes you paid for on the company dime. That is extortion that threatens the company's future.

American Beauty -- Good filmIn this example, what specifically about the negotiation process is unethical?

Spock....help me........

 

[Politician Spock]

For example, you will pay me $50,000 or I tell the press about the prostitutes you paid for on the company dime. That is extortion that threatens the company's future.

American Beauty -- Good filmIn this example, what specifically about the negotiation process is unethical?

Completely depends on where your ethical limits lie. Not everyone has the same ethics. Some believe anything that is legal is ethical. Some believe some legal things are unethical. Some believe some illegal are ethical. To some extortion is ethical.

 

[Politician Spock]

Is fraud a two way street? What if they credit him far lower for what they sell the product? Is that fraud or just good business?

They buy it from the vendor for less than they sell it. Would it be wrong for them to only give you the wholesale value for something you didn't buy from them.But to answer our question, yes it is a two way street. They could defraud as well.

 

[Sam Quentin]

For example, you will pay me $50,000 or I tell the press about the prostitutes you paid for on the company dime. That is extortion that threatens the company's future.

American Beauty -- Good filmIn this example, what specifically about the negotiation process is unethical?

Completely depends on where your ethical limits lie. Not everyone has the same ethics. Some believe anything that is legal is ethical. Some believe some legal things are unethical. Some believe some illegal are ethical. To some extortion is ethical.

we were talking about negotiaionIf I say give me 1000 dollars and you say no, that is a perfectly legitimate and ethical negotiation.If I then say, if you don't do it, I'll break your legs, Now I've threatened you with bodily harm which most would agree is wrong, and it is not within my rights to do.The negotiation process is ok, it's threatening violence that is wrong.In the prostitution example, it's failure to report this activity to the company and profiting from it that makes you an accessory to the original crime and not the bartering process itself.Back to the cookies example, I am well within my rights as a person to only shop at stores which will exchange fruit for my cookies. Taking my business elewhere is a legal and ethical perogative. Breaking your legs or becoming an accessory to criminal activity are neither legal or ethical.

 

[Statorama]

AH HA!I just spent my lunch hour playing video games for free at Best Buy. They didn't seem to mind me hogging the machine, but they probably thought the Big Gulp and Nachos were a bit much.I did it in the name of General Malaise! Take THAT Best Buy!Edited to add:I also took all of the Lord of the Rings DVD's and moved them to the comedy section...under the "R" section no less!Hey, it's the best "Best Buy Terrorism" I could perform on my lunch break.

 

[Joe T]

1) Store policies are flexible.2) The thing that got GM really hot was that they couldn't at least try to prove that the ####### things was sold at that price.3) There was a manager involved that should've realized that it's just $8 bucks as well; might as well keep the customer.4) He bought the thing there (at that very store). They should be able to figure out how much he bought it for. 5) On returns to other stores: if it were something they didn't sell, they wouldn't take it. If they didn't want to exchange it, they wouldn't have to. Target chose to forgo the hassle and gain a happy customer.6) Retail sucks. Retail people suck. Alot of the customers retail people have to put up with suck.

 

[Joe T]

I lost my receipt. I want my eight dollars. 'want to compare bank accounts' 'I'll take that bet.'

 

[General Malaise]

AH HA!I just spent my lunch hour playing video games for free at Best Buy. They didn't seem to mind me hogging the machine, but they probably thought the Big Gulp and Nachos were a bit much.I did it in the name of General Malaise! Take THAT Best Buy!Edited to add:I also took all of the Lord of the Rings DVD's and moved them to the comedy section...under the "R" section no less!Hey, it's the best "Best Buy Terrorism" I could perform on my lunch break.

:rotflmao: