Best MLB player - outfield (1 Viewer)

[guru_007]

I understand two of these players still have some to go in their career, but taking into account all aspects of the game, which is the best player?

Feel free to discuss

 

[whoknew]

Kaline is clearly the choice.

 

[guru_007]

Kaline is clearly the choice.

Care to support this theory?zero mvp awards, never hit 30 homers in a season, never more than 200 hits in a year.

 

[whoknew]

Kaline is clearly the choice.

Care to support this theory?zero mvp awards, never hit 30 homers in a season, never more than 200 hits in a year.

Sure.Career numbers OBP/SLG/OPS+Clemente .359/.475/130Andruw Jones .343/.500/116ICHIRO! .378/.440/120 (and he's only played 7 seasons, so he shouldn't even count)Kaline .376/.480/134

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Strange mix of players as I wish you would have taken Jones out and put another rightfielder in there instead.

Anyway it's Kaline. 3000 hits, 400 HRS, well above average range in prime years, cannon arm, and he hit for average. He was also a leader, an example to players and fans, and someone who gave it his all every single time he took the field. His and Clemente's numbers are similiar but the edge would go to Kaline because of power. The rest of their game was about the same and CLemente was a little better hitting for average. Career OPS + is 134 to 130 Kaline so these guys compared well in fielding (22 gold gloves betweeen them), hitting, base runnning, and elsewhere. Kaline had more power though.

I'll compare those two to Ichiro. Ichiro has above average range but if you look at peak years Kaline and Clemente were actually better. For his career Ichiro has a range factor of .45 higher than the league average while Kaline was .14. However look at Kaline's first seven years and you'll find he was .37 above the league average and had 93 outfield assists to 57 for Ichiro. Kaline also hit for power, a ton more than Ichiro and since he was a .300 hitter. Kaline OPS+ numbers compared to Ichiros are 134 to 120 for career and if you just take Kaline's prime years this isn't even close. Kaline was easily better than Ichiro.

Clemente had over 120 outfield assists in his first 7 years but Ichiro is far and away the better hitter. Clemente really didn't start to hit with the best of them until mid way through his career. But you have to consider the whole body of work when making this call and Clemente over his career was a Hall of Famer. Ichiro has the advantage up to this point in their careers but Clemente was a late bloomer who had his peak years six to 15.

So in closing Kaline>Clemente>Ichiro

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Kaline is clearly the choice.

Care to support this theory?zero mvp awards, never hit 30 homers in a season,

Clemente and Ichiro have one MVP each and neither of those two ever hit more than 30 HRs in a season either. Ichiro has 66 for his whole effing career.

 

[guru_007]

Kaline is clearly the choice.

Care to support this theory?zero mvp awards, never hit 30 homers in a season,

Clemente and Ichiro have one MVP each and neither of those two ever hit more than 30 HRs in a season either. Ichiro has 66 for his whole effing career.

1 MVP award is >>> zero Also saw you edited out topped 200 hits in a season. I was trying to find another right fielder to throw in the mix, but I wanted some opines of Andruw Jones here, as he is more than likely going to top 500 HR's in his career, and has a string of gold gloves. I think these four outfielders were all superior defensively and offensively (be it batting average, base running or power numbers).

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Kaline is clearly the choice.

Care to support this theory?zero mvp awards, never hit 30 homers in a season,

Clemente and Ichiro have one MVP each and neither of those two ever hit more than 30 HRs in a season either. Ichiro has 66 for his whole effing career.

1 MVP award is >>> zero Also saw you edited out topped 200 hits in a season.

I don't think 200 hits is that important of a stat but Kaline did have 200 hits in 1955. As far as MVPs Kaline finished second twice and third once. Clemente first once and third once. Ichiro first once. Kaline was robbed in 1955 when Yogi Berra won it and again in 1963 when Elston Howard won it. New York bias and this is something that is known around baseball. The 1963 one is still a sore subject for older Tiger fans. I think the 1955 was a bigger robbery as Kaline was far superior to Berra that year.

I was trying to find another right fielder to throw in the mix, but I wanted some opines of Andruw Jones here, as he is more than likely going to top 500 HR's in his career, and has a string of gold gloves. I think these four outfielders were all superior defensively and offensively (be it batting average, base running or power numbers).

Jones is gonna be in the HOF and he's an excellent fielder. Better than the other three? Hard to say because they played in right and Ichiro just moved to center this year. I think regardless Jones is the second best fielding centerfielder of his era (Griffey Jr) and probably top ten all-time, maybe top five. I think generally speaking in terms of outfielders Jones compares to Kaline and Clemente but is a notch below all around. I'd like to give Ichiro about three more years but he measures up well also.

 

[BlueDemon]

I guess no one ever heard of some kid that called the say hey kid? I think he may have played centerfield and hit something like 600 plus homers. Had a decent glove and an ok arm too.

MAYS best outfielder ever, end of conversation.

 

[Lombaowski]

I guess no one ever heard of some kid that called the say hey kid? I think he may have played centerfield and hit something like 600 plus homers. Had a decent glove and an ok arm too. MAYS best outfielder ever, end of conversation.

I don't think the original poster was talking about best ever.

 

[numberSE7EN]

Kaline is clearly the choice.

Care to support this theory?zero mvp awards, never hit 30 homers in a season,

Clemente and Ichiro have one MVP each and neither of those two ever hit more than 30 HRs in a season either. Ichiro has 66 for his whole effing career.

Theres more to the game than homeruns dude

 

[NY/NJMFDIVER]

Well its clearly between Kaline and Clemente for me. Good debate, relatively evenly matched on the stat line, both equal more or less in the world series and postseason, strong defensive reputations.

I didn't see either one play, but based on what I've heard folks watch them say, Clemente is the better defender. The only meaningful stat I can use to back it up are those extra 100 outfield assists. In fairness, Clemente did make twice as many errors, which are not all of the story, but deserve mentioning.

And regarding the power numbers, I dont think you can compare the cozy Tiger Stadium with the cavernous Forbes Field. I don't know if Clemente gets to 400 career dongs there, but I guarantee you he gets to 300.

And Clemente's book is SOMEWHAT ajar, because while he died late in his career, his last few seasons were still pretty strong, and he might have compiled the career numbers to make this a no brainer.

I mean, if he had 3300 hits, 1500 rbi and 280 homers,

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Kaline is clearly the choice.

Care to support this theory?zero mvp awards, never hit 30 homers in a season,

Clemente and Ichiro have one MVP each and neither of those two ever hit more than 30 HRs in a season either. Ichiro has 66 for his whole effing career.

Theres more to the game than homeruns dude

I was commenting on the original point that Kaline never had a 30 run season....DUDE.

 

[Statorama]

I guess no one ever heard of some kid that called the say hey kid? I think he may have played centerfield and hit something like 600 plus homers. Had a decent glove and an ok arm too. MAYS best outfielder ever, end of conversation.

I don't think the original poster was talking about best ever.

I was thinking of Mays when I saw this thread as well, but obviously the poster was just looking for who was the best out of the choices he gave.I would have loved to have seen Clemente play, but he died before I got the chance.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

And regarding the power numbers, I dont think you can compare the cozy Tiger Stadium with the cavernous Forbes Field. I don't know if Clemente gets to 400 career dongs there, but I guarantee you he gets to 300.

Well they actually have research that considers both park and league factors called AIR. A 100 air means that a player hit in average settings. Kaline's was 98, Clemente's was 97 over their careers so that means that Kaline hit in marginally better settings. Also remember that stats like OPS+ are also park adjusted. So I doubt Clemente would have faired any better at Tiger Stadium or Kaline worse at Forbes. Also keep in mind that Tiger Stadium being "cozy" is a misnomer. It was 440 to straight away center and during the years Kaline played the park factor was always between 97 and 104. Forbes Field was always between 97 and 101 so Tiger Stadium was just a little bit better for hitters than Forbes Field.

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

I hate the Tigers so I voted Clemente.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

I hate the Tigers so I voted Clemente.

You're i-dead to me.

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

I hate the Tigers so I voted Clemente.

You're i-dead to me.

Actually, I voted Kaline. Mostly for this:

Some fan yelled out to Kaline in right field "you ain't no Mickey Mantle." Kaline responded "Son, no one is half as good as Mickey Mantle."

 

[Doctor Detroit]

I hate the Tigers so I voted Clemente.

You're i-dead to me.

Actually, I voted Kaline. Mostly for this:

Some fan yelled out to Kaline in right field "you ain't no Mickey Mantle." Kaline responded "Son, no one is half as good as Mickey Mantle."

Kaline is a class act. He was a damn good player but yeah, not many guys were half as good as Mantle. I noticed something interesting the other day when looking through the all time HR list. Mantle of course has the most for a switch hitter but after him the cupboard is pretty bare. Second all time is Eddie Murray and third?Chipper Jones. Wow.

 

[Please See Mine]

I hate the Tigers so I voted Clemente.

You're i-dead to me.

Actually, I voted Kaline. Mostly for this:

Some fan yelled out to Kaline in right field "you ain't no Mickey Mantle."

Kaline responded "Son, no one is half as good as Mickey Mantle."

Kaline is a class act. He was a damn good player but yeah, not many guys were half as good as Mantle. I noticed something interesting the other day when looking through the all time HR list. Mantle of course has the most for a switch hitter but after him the cupboard is pretty bare. Second all time is Eddie Murray and third?Chipper Jones. Wow.

Are you surprised that Chipper has that many or surprised that there is no one better than Chipper? Or are you giving Chipper his due?I think Chipper is actually a little underrated. .305 lifetime average, 8 straight seasons over 100 RBI's (with 86 and 96, in 140 and 137 games bookending it), an MVP, .288 BA with 13 HR's in the postseason. He'll end with 2,500 hits, well over 400 HR's and a .300 BA. Obviously not the greatest fielder, but really he should probably be in the HOF, however I wonder if he will be overshadowed by the insane steroid-era numbers.

Good Posting Here

 

[Doctor Detroit]

I hate the Tigers so I voted Clemente.

You're i-dead to me.

Actually, I voted Kaline. Mostly for this:

Some fan yelled out to Kaline in right field "you ain't no Mickey Mantle."

Kaline responded "Son, no one is half as good as Mickey Mantle."

Kaline is a class act. He was a damn good player but yeah, not many guys were half as good as Mantle. I noticed something interesting the other day when looking through the all time HR list. Mantle of course has the most for a switch hitter but after him the cupboard is pretty bare. Second all time is Eddie Murray and third?Chipper Jones. Wow.

Are you surprised that Chipper has that many or surprised that there is no one better than Chipper? Or are you giving Chipper his due?I think Chipper is actually a little underrated. .305 lifetime average, 8 straight seasons over 100 RBI's (with 86 and 96, in 140 and 137 games bookending it), an MVP, .288 BA with 13 HR's in the postseason. He'll end with 2,500 hits, well over 400 HR's and a .300 BA. Obviously not the greatest fielder, but really he should probably be in the HOF, however I wonder if he will be overshadowed by the insane steroid-era numbers.

Good Posting Here

I think I was giving him due but was still surprised. I guess I'm getting old when I look at how many HRs and how long Chipper has been a great player. Always have liked him a lot.