Chase Stuart
Footballguy
Who do you think was the best team in NFL history before 1966?
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Best NFL team in history (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Chase Stuart
- Start date
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
this or the 1957 Lions
Ted Lange as your Bartender
Footballguy
I'll go with this team:
1962 Green Bay Packers
Record: 13-1-0, Finished 1st in NFL West Division
1962 NFL Champions
Scored 415 points (29.6/g), 1st of 14 in the NFL.
Allowed 148 points (10.6/g), 1st.
Differential of 267 points (19.1/g), 1st.
Expected W-L: 12.9-1.1.
Takeaway/Giveaway Differential +22 (1.6/g), 1st.
Coached by Vince Lombardi (13-1-0)
1962 Green Bay Packers
Record: 13-1-0, Finished 1st in NFL West Division
1962 NFL Champions
Scored 415 points (29.6/g), 1st of 14 in the NFL.
Allowed 148 points (10.6/g), 1st.
Differential of 267 points (19.1/g), 1st.
Expected W-L: 12.9-1.1.
Takeaway/Giveaway Differential +22 (1.6/g), 1st.
Coached by Vince Lombardi (13-1-0)
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
1949 Philadelphia Eagles
Record 11-1
Won the Championship but also had some other remarkable feats...
Ranked 1st on offense in points scored 364= 30 points a game they scored in an era where 20 was more than good usually.
Ranked 1st in defense for points allowed 134= 11 points a game...so they won by an avg of almost 20 a week.
Ranked 1st in rush yds, TDs, ranked 1st on defense in rush yds and TD allowed as well.
This was year 2 of back to back championships so they were a machine at this point.
Steve Van Buren who was inducted into the HoF in 1965 was the lead back on this team, 5 time All Pro.
Also Pete Pihos was a remarkable two way player who played End and DE...in the 40s if you were an End that was like a WR for the yungins in the SP. He also was a 5 time All Pro and he and Van Buren made an outstanding core to this football team.
Record 11-1
Won the Championship but also had some other remarkable feats...
Ranked 1st on offense in points scored 364= 30 points a game they scored in an era where 20 was more than good usually.
Ranked 1st in defense for points allowed 134= 11 points a game...so they won by an avg of almost 20 a week.
Ranked 1st in rush yds, TDs, ranked 1st on defense in rush yds and TD allowed as well.
This was year 2 of back to back championships so they were a machine at this point.
Steve Van Buren who was inducted into the HoF in 1965 was the lead back on this team, 5 time All Pro.
Also Pete Pihos was a remarkable two way player who played End and DE...in the 40s if you were an End that was like a WR for the yungins in the SP. He also was a 5 time All Pro and he and Van Buren made an outstanding core to this football team.
i just did a calculation saturday for fun of win % and % points scored , out of opoints scored + allowed from 1950 to 2009.
the highest % of points in that 60 year period :
1st- 1962 packers - with only 1 loss gets my vote pre-super bowl
2-nd 1985 bears
3-rd 1973 dolphins
these were the only teams scoring over 70% of points scored , out of what they scored and allowed . odd that the 73 phins, 15-2 have a better % than the undefeated 72 team . but it shows how good the team really was .
statistically, the 1950 browns were more dominant than any of the 50' lion teams . and btw the 57 lions team was one of the weakest champs using the win% + point % system . on a side note only 2 champs in 60 yrs have 6 losses , 88 49ers and 07 giants . of the 60 champs using the two % systems added together, the 07 giants are the weakest champ in 60 years . makes the 07 loss hurt even worse !
the highest % of points in that 60 year period :
1st- 1962 packers - with only 1 loss gets my vote pre-super bowl
2-nd 1985 bears
3-rd 1973 dolphins
these were the only teams scoring over 70% of points scored , out of what they scored and allowed . odd that the 73 phins, 15-2 have a better % than the undefeated 72 team . but it shows how good the team really was .
statistically, the 1950 browns were more dominant than any of the 50' lion teams . and btw the 57 lions team was one of the weakest champs using the win% + point % system . on a side note only 2 champs in 60 yrs have 6 losses , 88 49ers and 07 giants . of the 60 champs using the two % systems added together, the 07 giants are the weakest champ in 60 years . makes the 07 loss hurt even worse !
I just came in here to say the '48 & '49 Eagles. Only back-to-back SHUT-OUT Championship Wins in NFL history.Ministry of Pain said:
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Chase Stuart
Footballguy
What is the win% and % points scored thing? I can calculate it for you if you like.
i didnt do pre-1950 because of segregation . i figured teams of the past could not compete after so just picked 1950 as a start point . but that is impresive philly stats . i would like to compare the 2 year % with 62 and 61 or 63 gb . although the 1950 browns beat the 48/49 champion eagles handily to open the 1950 season . but its interesting to just look at numbers for each year or compare b2b champs. ive been meaning to post the numbers i did sometime . ill put post ww2 in there . and i didnt mean to be jerky to 57 lions guy .the 57 # are not good . but the 52 and 53 teams were pretty good . a guy i knows dad watched the lions and layne . he says layne was like stabler . he had many ways to beat you and would usually find a way .
immadimwitty
Footballguy
the only team in league history to be striped of the title they rightfully won. Pottsville Maroons 1925 World Champions of Professional Football
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
Nevermind, I figured it out. Without saying what I think of the system, here are the top teams according to that formula:
Code:
pf pa w l t win% pts% rank league year team246 19 11 0 1 0.958 0.928 1.887 NFL 1923 Canton Bulldogs198 22 12 0 1 0.962 0.900 1.862 NFL 1929 Green Bay Packers184 15 10 0 2 0.917 0.925 1.841 NFL 1922 Canton Bulldogs151 7 8 0 3 0.864 0.956 1.819 APFA 1920 Akron Pros197 20 11 1 1 0.885 0.908 1.792 NFL 1927 New York Giants258 32 9 1 1 0.864 0.890 1.753 APFA 1920 Buffalo All-Americans164 21 10 1 2 0.846 0.886 1.733 APFA 1920 Decatur Staleys205 43 12 1 1 0.893 0.827 1.719 NFL 1926 Frankford Yellow Jackets211 29 9 1 2 0.833 0.879 1.713 APFA 1921 Buffalo All-Americans382 98 11 1 0 0.917 0.796 1.713 NFL 1942 Chicago Bears270 45 10 2 0 0.833 0.857 1.690 NFL 1925 Pottsville Maroons438 197 15 0 0 1.000 0.690 1.690 AAFC 1948 Cleveland Browns298 77 12 1 1 0.893 0.795 1.688 NFL 1929 New York Giants440 209 17 0 0 1.000 0.678 1.678 NFL 1972 Miami Dolphins547 208 18 1 0 0.947 0.725 1.672 NFL 1985 Chicago Bears431 155 14 1 0 0.933 0.735 1.669 NFL 1962 Green Bay Packers378 134 12 1 0 0.923 0.738 1.661 NFL 1949 Philadelphia Eagles466 170 12 1 0 0.923 0.733 1.656 NFL 1941 Chicago Bears204 53 11 1 2 0.857 0.794 1.651 NFL 1926 Chicago Bears299 116 13 1 0 0.929 0.720 1.649 NFL 1934 Chicago Bears557 253 18 1 0 0.947 0.688 1.635 NFL 1984 San Francisco 49ers155 29 10 2 2 0.786 0.842 1.628 NFL 1926 Pottsville Maroons291 87 12 2 0 0.857 0.770 1.627 NFL 1931 Green Bay Packers229 60 7 1 1 0.833 0.792 1.626 NFL 1924 Cleveland Bulldogs655 323 18 1 0 0.947 0.670 1.617 NFL 2007 New England Patriots437 146 13 2 0 0.867 0.750 1.616 AAFC 1946 Cleveland Browns467 174 15 2 0 0.882 0.729 1.611 NFL 1968 Baltimore Colts241 108 11 1 0 0.917 0.691 1.607 NFL 1942 Washington Redskins230 65 11 2 1 0.821 0.780 1.601 NFL 1925 Chicago Cardinals424 188 13 1 1 0.900 0.693 1.593 AAFC 1947 Cleveland Browns587 265 17 2 0 0.895 0.689 1.584 NFL 1991 Washington Redskins428 183 15 2 0 0.882 0.700 1.583 NFL 1973 Miami Dolphins128 42 8 1 2 0.818 0.753 1.571 NFL 1928 Providence Steam Roller326 109 11 2 1 0.821 0.749 1.571 NFL 1924 Frankford Yellow Jackets128 53 9 1 1 0.864 0.707 1.571 APFA 1921 Chicago Staleys238 59 10 3 0 0.769 0.801 1.571 NFL 1934 Detroit Lions123 35 9 2 1 0.792 0.778 1.570 NFL 1923 Chicago Bears438 199 15 2 0 0.882 0.688 1.570 NFL 1975 Pittsburgh Steelers269 124 11 1 1 0.885 0.684 1.569 NFL 1936 Green Bay Packers568 279 17 2 0 0.895 0.671 1.565 NFL 1989 San Francisco 49ersChase Stuart
Footballguy
Another way to do the calculation would be to use standard deviations. This enables modern teams to compete with teams from the past. So I looked at how many standard deviations each team was above (or below) average in both winning percentage and points scored. I gave them 100 points if they were average, and 15 points for each point above standard deviation they were; so if a team's winning percentage was 3 standard deviations above average, they'd get 145 in the "wins" category below. I then added the two categories and subtracted 100 to get the "avg" column.
And pre-SB era:
Code:
wins pts avg year lg tm135 144 179 1985 NFL Chicago Bears135 137 172 1978 NFL Pittsburgh Steelers129 140 169 1996 NFL Green Bay Packers134 135 168 1989 NFL San Francisco 49ers133 134 168 1984 NFL San Francisco 49ers134 132 167 2007 NFL New England Patriots127 137 164 1962 NFL Green Bay Packers130 133 163 1994 NFL San Francisco 49ers127 136 163 2002 NFL Tampa Bay Buccaneers132 130 162 2004 NFL New England Patriots129 133 162 1999 NFL St. Louis Rams134 126 160 1972 NFL Miami Dolphins128 131 159 1991 NFL Washington Redskins129 130 159 1986 NFL New York Giants127 131 158 1955 NFL Cleveland Browns131 128 158 1983 NFL Washington Redskins128 129 157 1987 NFL San Francisco 49ers131 126 157 1982 NFL Washington Redskins126 131 157 1979 NFL Pittsburgh Steelers128 129 157 1999 NFL Jacksonville Jaguars129 128 157 1998 NFL Minnesota Vikings127 130 156 2001 NFL St. Louis Rams121 135 156 1969 NFL Minnesota Vikings129 127 156 1998 NFL Denver Broncos129 126 156 1995 NFL Dallas Cowboys125 130 155 1968 NFL Baltimore Colts124 131 155 2000 NFL Baltimore Ravens128 126 155 1923 NFL Canton Bulldogs121 133 155 1978 NFL Dallas Cowboys128 126 154 1993 NFL Dallas Cowboys126 128 154 1997 NFL Denver Broncos126 128 154 1973 NFL Miami Dolphins127 127 154 1971 NFL Dallas Cowboys128 125 153 1966 NFL Green Bay Packers127 126 153 1967 NFL Baltimore Colts123 130 152 1970 NFL Minnesota Vikings126 126 152 1992 NFL Dallas Cowboys128 124 152 1977 NFL Dallas Cowboys128 124 152 2006 NFL San Diego Chargers125 126 151 1920 APFA Akron Pros132 119 151 2003 NFL New England Patriots124 127 151 1975 NFL Pittsburgh Steelers125 126 151 1964 NFL Baltimore Colts124 126 150 1986 NFL Chicago Bears125 125 150 1949 NFL Philadelphia Eagles127 123 150 1995 NFL Kansas City Chiefs122 128 150 1969 AFL Kansas City Chiefs126 124 150 1983 NFL Los Angeles Raiders124 126 150 2005 NFL Indianapolis Colts132 118 150 2004 NFL Pittsburgh Steelers123 127 150 2006 NFL Baltimore Ravens
Code:
wins pts avg year lg tm127 137 164 1962 NFL Green Bay Packers127 131 158 1955 NFL Cleveland Browns128 126 155 1923 NFL Canton Bulldogs125 126 151 1920 APFA Akron Pros125 126 151 1964 NFL Baltimore Colts125 125 150 1949 NFL Philadelphia Eagles123 126 149 1946 AAFC Cleveland Browns122 127 149 1961 NFL Green Bay Packers123 125 148 1951 NFL Cleveland Browns123 126 148 1921 APFA Buffalo All-Americans125 123 148 1920 APFA Buffalo All-Americans124 124 148 1964 AFL Buffalo Bills123 125 148 1963 NFL Chicago Bears123 124 147 1956 NFL Detroit Lions123 124 147 1929 NFL Green Bay Packers121 126 147 1927 NFL New York Giants124 123 147 1922 NFL Canton Bulldogs121 125 147 1938 NFL New York Giants124 123 146 1948 AAFC Cleveland Browns124 122 146 1920 APFA Decatur Staleys123 123 146 1952 NFL Detroit Lions125 121 146 1926 NFL Frankford Yellow Jackets123 122 145 1941 NFL Chicago Bears123 123 145 1950 NFL Cleveland Browns123 122 145 1963 AFL San Diego Chargers120 125 144 1954 NFL Cleveland Browns124 120 143 1965 NFL Green Bay Packers118 125 143 1958 NFL Baltimore Colts121 122 143 1956 NFL New York Giants123 119 143 1960 AFL Houston Oilers
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Buddy Ball 2K3
Footballguy
/threadvalhallan said:
PlasmaDogPlasma
Footballguy
That was before the Browns joined the league and started kicking the Eagles butts in '50.
thanks chase stewart . i use a small calculater, an old book, computer search and paper and clipboard . took me hours to do last saturday . we just invented fire here .
anyways to compare 49 eagles and 62 packers :
eagles 12-1 .9231
packers 14.1 .9333
% points scored of pnts scored+pnts allowed
eagles 378-134 .7383
packers 431-155 .7355
total above #s
eagles 1.6621
packers 1.6688
although avg win margin
eagles 20.33
packers 18.4
anyways to compare 49 eagles and 62 packers :
eagles 12-1 .9231
packers 14.1 .9333
% points scored of pnts scored+pnts allowed
eagles 378-134 .7383
packers 431-155 .7355
total above #s
eagles 1.6621
packers 1.6688
although avg win margin
eagles 20.33
packers 18.4
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Walter34
Footballguy
The fact that they lost the championship game may eliminate them based on that fact alone, but the 1942 Bears have some impressive credentials.
They are the closest a team has come to the perfect season other than the 72 Dolphins, similar to the 2007 pats
11-0 before losing the title game
376 pts for against only 86 against in those 11 games
The following game scores:
Green Bay Packers 44 28
Cleveland Rams 21 7
Chicago Cardinals 41 14
New York Giants 26 7
Philadelphia Eagles 45 14
Detroit Lions 16 0
Brooklyn Dodgers 35 0
Green Bay Packers 38 7
Detroit Lions 42 0
Cleveland Rams 47 0
Chicago Cardinals 21 7
They are the closest a team has come to the perfect season other than the 72 Dolphins, similar to the 2007 pats
11-0 before losing the title game
376 pts for against only 86 against in those 11 games
The following game scores:
Green Bay Packers 44 28
Cleveland Rams 21 7
Chicago Cardinals 41 14
New York Giants 26 7
Philadelphia Eagles 45 14
Detroit Lions 16 0
Brooklyn Dodgers 35 0
Green Bay Packers 38 7
Detroit Lions 42 0
Cleveland Rams 47 0
Chicago Cardinals 21 7
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
There have been some undefeated champions. The 1948 Browns went 15-0 in the AAFC. In the '20s, the 1920 Akron Pros (with Fritz Pollard, the first black "QB", being the team's star), 1922 Canton Bulldogs, 1923 Canton Bulldogs, and 1929 Green Bay Packers all had undefeated seasons (but each had at least one tie, too.)
Genghis Khan
Footballguy
'55 Cleveland Browns.
9-2-1
9-2-1
'57 Lions won the league title, but only outscored their opponents 251 to 231 in the regular season and they lost four games. '41 Bears, '49 Eagles, '50 Browns, , '52 Lions, '54 Browns and '62 Packers are better choices I think.
