Billy Ball Thorton
Footballguy
BEST LINE IN THE NFL?
Chiefs
Hawks
Maybe Vikes
Who is the FBG census of the best oline entering 2006?
Chiefs
Hawks
Maybe Vikes
Who is the FBG census of the best oline entering 2006?
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Best Oline in the NFL (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Billy Ball Thorton
- Start date
Bonecrusher
Footballguy
This_Is_Not_VRR
Footballguy
Chiefs get my vote.
Stillers Jr.
Footballguy
Seahawks
M
MLBrandow
Guest
IND #1? Hahahahaha. Any offensive line would be #1 if Peyton Manning and Edgerring James prevented them from rushing more than 5 guys.I don't think it's any contest. Kansas City has the past few years been simply the best OL.
Put KC's OL in IND, and Manning could rush for 1,400 yards a season.
Sweetness_34
Footballguy
Seattle will not be that good with Hutch gone.
BoulderBob
Footballguy
The Bears line protected a pretty bad QB last year, and their rushers averaged 4.3 ypc. Get rid of Houston, and replace them with Chicago and you have a good list.
Chaos
Footballguy
KC I feel is the best
SEA would have been right there but the loss of Hutch drops them to 2nd tier
DEN OL is a great scheme so they're 2nd tier
CIN could be considered 2nd tier
PIT is 2nd tier
IND is 2nd tier
SD is 2nd tier
CHI and ATL are also pretty good but ATL lost their OLT to Cleveland
Next are some surprise entries for 2006
MIA is building and they have Houck coaching them
CLE (don't laugh) have built the talent level and Jeff Davidson is an up and coming OL coach
SEA would have been right there but the loss of Hutch drops them to 2nd tier
DEN OL is a great scheme so they're 2nd tier
CIN could be considered 2nd tier
PIT is 2nd tier
IND is 2nd tier
SD is 2nd tier
CHI and ATL are also pretty good but ATL lost their OLT to Cleveland
Next are some surprise entries for 2006
MIA is building and they have Houck coaching them
CLE (don't laugh) have built the talent level and Jeff Davidson is an up and coming OL coach
FunkyPlutos
Footballguy
You give me a hernia from laughing so hard!!
SoFresh&SoClean
Footballguy
Does this mean there are no teams worthy of a first tier status?
SoFresh&SoClean
Footballguy
This is roughly my order off the top of my head.
Kansas City- aging, but they still get it done, very good line
Cincinnati- complete line, don't give up many sacks, 1500yd backs for a few years now, these guys really are the force behind Cincy's offense
Indy- Could be interchagable with Cincy here, both are very talented and do the same sort of thing
Denver- Proven over and over again, doesn't rely on positional superstars
Seattle- losing Hutch wil definitely hurt them, still have the best LT in the game
Pitt- work well as a unit, get the job done
San Diego- somewhat young, improving
Atlanta- top-notch run-blocking team
..something like that
I agree that Cleveland and Miami are up-and-comers, watch out for them.
Kansas City- aging, but they still get it done, very good line
Cincinnati- complete line, don't give up many sacks, 1500yd backs for a few years now, these guys really are the force behind Cincy's offense
Indy- Could be interchagable with Cincy here, both are very talented and do the same sort of thing
Denver- Proven over and over again, doesn't rely on positional superstars
Seattle- losing Hutch wil definitely hurt them, still have the best LT in the game
Pitt- work well as a unit, get the job done
San Diego- somewhat young, improving
Atlanta- top-notch run-blocking team
..something like that
I agree that Cleveland and Miami are up-and-comers, watch out for them.
Chris Smith
The Head Goon!
Indy's offensive line does not in any way belong in a top-ten list. This is a case where an intelligent quarterback dictating the game masks some weakness up front. Manning makes them much better than they are.The top two offensive lines in football this year are
1. Cincinnati
1(b) Kansas City
I believe that the Bengals may have made the leap forward into the top-tier this season. They return the same starting five who played terrific last year and are in their prime. The Chiefs are beginning to age which will impact their play at some point over the next two years.
Denver and Atlanta don't have the talent of many other units but make up for it with tremendous coaching and very good schemes. Atlanta had a huge hole at tackle but filled it nicely with the Gandy trade.
Teams that are very close to moving into the top tier when it comes to O-Line play...
New York Giants... agressive, hard nose run blocking group
Washington... Healthy, this starting five is as good as anybody.
Seattle will miss the presence of Hutchinson at guard big time as he is all-world talent.
Pittsburgh is a top-five group.
Right now, I would rank the top five as follows...
1. Bengals
2. Chiefs
3. Steelers
4. Giants
5. Redskins
ChampBailey24
Footballguy
1. KC
2. Denver
3. Cincinnati
4. Seattle
5. Pittsburgh
2. Denver
3. Cincinnati
4. Seattle
5. Pittsburgh
Chris Smith
The Head Goon!
Denver is certainly capable of cracking the top five this year. I would put them in the same tier as Washington and the Giants.Seattle though, I am not so sure about.
Hutchinson is all-world and they will not replace him easily. At one guard position, Chris Gray is getting old and his best years are behind him. They cannot rely on him to start much longer. Center Robbie Tobeck is also getting up there in age and it wouldn't be a big shock to see 2nd-year talented lineman Chris Spencer see some action at center this year. He is the future for the club. Guard Floyd Womack is serviceable but doesn't have the athleticism to replace Hutchinson or even come close and Tom Ashworth who was picked up from the Patriots is a solid starter but doesn't have a large upside to his game.
This unit will still be top fifteen, but I expect a fall from their work in 2005.
-OZ-
Footballguy
If the question is running OL, Chiefs are the top, but they aren't that great a pass blocking OL, and they're getting old.
I'd put Denver and Cincy up as the top 2 for 2006.
Hawks, Steelers and Redskins have a damn good like too.
If forced, I'll rank them:
1. Cincy
2. Denver
3. KC
4. Steelers
5. Redskins
I might be
but I see a lot of similarities between Cincy and KC a few years back, only CJ vs. Gonzo, and Palmer has a stronger arm. Also, Rudi is younger than Priest, but overall their talent is similar. Not to mention the backup RBs have / can be huge after / if the opportunity comes.
I'd put Denver and Cincy up as the top 2 for 2006.
Hawks, Steelers and Redskins have a damn good like too.
If forced, I'll rank them:
1. Cincy
2. Denver
3. KC
4. Steelers
5. Redskins
I might be
but I see a lot of similarities between Cincy and KC a few years back, only CJ vs. Gonzo, and Palmer has a stronger arm. Also, Rudi is younger than Priest, but overall their talent is similar. Not to mention the backup RBs have / can be huge after / if the opportunity comes.
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fridayfrenzy
Footballguy
Did you not have the Seatle O-line ranked 14th before last season?
-2nd highest YPC average in the NFL-3rd highest rushing yards in the NFL
-2nd most rushing first downs in the NFL
-1st in rushing TDs in the NFL
-6th least sacks allowed in the NFL
You are bashing Tobeck based on his age, but seem to forget he was a Pro Bowler last season.
Should we be expecting you to rank them in the 20s now?
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DoctorDetroit
Chocolate Thunder
Wow. I didn't think you could say anything good about the Hawks. Steelers aren't the best in any group but they are near the top everywhere which is very rare.
We're now even. Let's resume
.
Chris Smith
The Head Goon!
Good response. Seattle was in a group of twelve teams in which I graded a 'B' for. However since they were # 14 in the table you are referring to, I will respond to it. Last season prior to the season starting, it appeared that the Seahawks had some ??? to answer.#1 - Chris Gray appeared to be contemplating retirement and his age is at the point where skills can begin to erode quicklyDid you not have the Seatle O-line ranked 14th before last season?
-3rd highest rushing yards in the NFL
-2nd most rushing first downs in the NFL
-1st in rushing TDs in the NFL
-6th least sacks allowed in the NFL
You are bashing Tobeck based on his age, but seem to forget he was a Pro Bowler last season.
Should we be expecting you to rank them in the 20s now?
#2 - Tobeck did not appear to be the stud center he once had been and was also getting up in age.
#3 - Pork Chop was known more for his cool nickname and love of food than being a great blocker
#4 - There appeared to be a possible huge weakness at right tackle. Pork Chop was thought to be too slow for that spot and Hunter/Willis were too raw.
Obviously the season proved this group was still an elite unit. I believe too often Pro Bowl lineman get by on reputation more so than what they did throughout the year but Tobeck did play quite well. However having Hutchinson on his side was a huge plus and he'll be missed in a big way this season.
Can Gray and Tobeck continue to play very well despite their advanced ages?
Sure they both could come out and have a great year but the potential is there for the wear and tear to catch up to them.
Will the Seahawks be able to fill the hole left by Hutchinson?
Sorry but no chance of that. Hutchinson is that good.
Tom Ashworth is a good lineman but not a great one. Therefore there is nowhere for this unit to go but down this season irregardless of where I ranked them last year. I've just begun fleshing out my thoughts on the OLs this year but there is no way they will be a top five unit this season.
Not sure too many folks picked Kevin Jones to finish as the 31st best running back last year as well but things happen during the season that make preseason rankings disappointing.
Analyzing offensive lines, all you can do is break down individual talent, cohesion, schemes, past successes, age / experience and possible weak points.
It is probably the most difficult position to grade as the cameras follow the ball but I have done my best to improve on last season with study and the addition of allowing scheme/coaching to have more of a role in determining the unit's possible success this season. I believe I have a pretty good handle on it this year and look forward to sharing it with you all down the road.
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Phlash
Footballguy
Agreed.Next year, this line looks like it could dominate
LT Matt Light - top 10 LT when healthy
LG Logan Mankins - great rookie season, looks to build upon that; great skils for a guard (plays angry, strong, explosive)
C Russ Hochstein - solid center, has protected Brady and the ballcarriers well for the past couple of years
RG Stephen Neal - came on huge last year, absolutely dominating in many matchups. A former college wrestling all-star, he is still learning the game but quickly improving.
RT Nick Kazcur - played LT when Light was injured in '05 and played admirably. Put him on the right side where there is less pressure, and he should shine.
fridayfrenzy
Footballguy
Good thought process, although you never mentioned how well Locklear played and how he is truning into a nice Tackle. Mayeb this was the reason you ranked them so low, it appears you never even put locklear into the discussion, and talked about Hunter and Willis instead.The 2006 Seattle O-line will be....Good response. Seattle was in a group of twelve teams in which I graded a 'B' for. However since they were # 14 in the table you are referring to, I will respond to it. Last season prior to the season starting, it appeared that the Seahawks had some ??? to answer.#1 - Chris Gray appeared to be contemplating retirement and his age is at the point where skills can begin to erode quicklyDid you not have the Seatle O-line ranked 14th before last season?
-3rd highest rushing yards in the NFL
-2nd most rushing first downs in the NFL
-1st in rushing TDs in the NFL
-6th least sacks allowed in the NFL
You are bashing Tobeck based on his age, but seem to forget he was a Pro Bowler last season.
Should we be expecting you to rank them in the 20s now?
#2 - Tobeck did not appear to be the stud center he once had been and was also getting up in age.
#3 - Pork Chop was known more for his cool nickname and love of food than being a great blocker
#4 - There appeared to be a possible huge weakness at right tackle. Pork Chop was thought to be too slow for that spot and Hunter/Willis were too raw.
Obviously the season proved this group was still an elite unit. I believe too often Pro Bowl lineman get by on reputation more so than what they did throughout the year but Tobeck did play quite well. However having Hutchinson on his side was a huge plus and he'll be missed in a big way this season.
Can Gray and Tobeck continue to play very well despite their advanced ages?
Sure they both could come out and have a great year but the potential is there for the wear and tear to catch up to them.
Will the Seahawks be able to fill the hole left by Hutchinson?
Sorry but no chance of that. Hutchinson is that good.
Tom Ashworth is a good lineman but not a great one. Therefore there is nowhere for this unit to go but down this season irregardless of where I ranked them last year. I've just begun fleshing out my thoughts on the OLs this year but there is no way they will be a top five unit this season.
Not sure too many folks picked Kevin Jones to finish as the 31st best running back last year as well but things happen during the season that make preseason rankings disappointing.
Analyzing offensive lines, all you can do is break down individual talent, cohesion, schemes, past successes, age / experience and possible weak points.
It is probably the most difficult position to grade as the cameras follow the ball but I have done my best to improve on last season with study and the addition of allowing scheme/coaching to have more of a role in determining the unit's possible success this season. I believe I have a pretty good handle on it this year and look forward to sharing it with you all down the road.
RT-Locklear
RG-Ashworth
C-Tobeck
LG-Womack
LT-Jones
Use that line for you rankings.
Chris Smith
The Head Goon!
Yes he surprised me last year as Hunter was the young player being talked about (as I remember anyways) to win the starting job. Locklear wasn't your proto-typical tackle and looked to be slotting into a backup guard/tackle role. Thanks for your input. The starting five looks good but not having Hutch is huge. Guessing at this point I believe they will fall in the 9 to 15 range in my rankings this year. The good news for Seattle is they are in good shape down the road with young'uns such as Spencer and Locklear ready to take the mantle in due time.Good thought process, although you never mentioned how well Locklear played and how he is truning into a nice Tackle. Mayeb this was the reason you ranked them so low, it appears you never even put locklear into the discussion, and talked about Hunter and Willis instead.The 2006 Seattle O-line will be....Good response. Seattle was in a group of twelve teams in which I graded a 'B' for. However since they were # 14 in the table you are referring to, I will respond to it. Last season prior to the season starting, it appeared that the Seahawks had some ??? to answer.#1 - Chris Gray appeared to be contemplating retirement and his age is at the point where skills can begin to erode quicklyDid you not have the Seatle O-line ranked 14th before last season?
-3rd highest rushing yards in the NFL
-2nd most rushing first downs in the NFL
-1st in rushing TDs in the NFL
-6th least sacks allowed in the NFL
You are bashing Tobeck based on his age, but seem to forget he was a Pro Bowler last season.
Should we be expecting you to rank them in the 20s now?
#2 - Tobeck did not appear to be the stud center he once had been and was also getting up in age.
#3 - Pork Chop was known more for his cool nickname and love of food than being a great blocker
#4 - There appeared to be a possible huge weakness at right tackle. Pork Chop was thought to be too slow for that spot and Hunter/Willis were too raw.
Obviously the season proved this group was still an elite unit. I believe too often Pro Bowl lineman get by on reputation more so than what they did throughout the year but Tobeck did play quite well. However having Hutchinson on his side was a huge plus and he'll be missed in a big way this season.
Can Gray and Tobeck continue to play very well despite their advanced ages?
Sure they both could come out and have a great year but the potential is there for the wear and tear to catch up to them.
Will the Seahawks be able to fill the hole left by Hutchinson?
Sorry but no chance of that. Hutchinson is that good.
Tom Ashworth is a good lineman but not a great one. Therefore there is nowhere for this unit to go but down this season irregardless of where I ranked them last year. I've just begun fleshing out my thoughts on the OLs this year but there is no way they will be a top five unit this season.
Not sure too many folks picked Kevin Jones to finish as the 31st best running back last year as well but things happen during the season that make preseason rankings disappointing.
Analyzing offensive lines, all you can do is break down individual talent, cohesion, schemes, past successes, age / experience and possible weak points.
It is probably the most difficult position to grade as the cameras follow the ball but I have done my best to improve on last season with study and the addition of allowing scheme/coaching to have more of a role in determining the unit's possible success this season. I believe I have a pretty good handle on it this year and look forward to sharing it with you all down the road.
RT-Locklear
RG-Ashworth
C-Tobeck
LG-Womack
LT-Jones
Use that line for you rankings.
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DoctorDetroit
Chocolate Thunder
Good analysis in this thread.
Chaos Commish
Footballguy
I just want to know why San Diego was mentioned, unless it was meant to be a joke like Arizona. That line is atrocious.
fridayfrenzy
Footballguy
You do know things have changed since LT was a rookie right?
This_Is_Not_VRR
Footballguy
At the very least, the Seahawks have the 5th best o-line in the league. Losing Hutchinson hurts, but they still have perhaps the best tackle to play the game since Anthony Munoz in Walter Jones. Mack Strong is the best blocking FB in the game. And most importantly, Sean Locklear is fast becoming one of the better young right tackles in the NFL. He more than held his own this year against guys like Reggie Hayward, Leonard Little, Renaldo Wynn, Julius Peppers, Michael Strahan, etc, etc. And while Tobeck is getting up there in age, he still displayed pro bowl form last season. And then there is backup C Chris Spencer, who may very well be talented enough to push Tobeck for the starting job. The guy has boat loads of talent, and he was the highest drafted center in Seahawks history. As for Pork Chop, I would label him as more than serviceable. I think that he could start for a lot of teams in the NFL. I love his versatility, too. And from all reports, Ashworth is solid. But I have to admit, I've seen more of him in those Tom Brady Visa commericals than I have on the field.Lastly, the loss of Hutchinson will not be felt all that much in the passing game.Here's why:
M
MLBrandow
Guest
How bout them Buccaneers!!
Kenyatta's comin back!
Kenyatta's comin back!
ChampBailey24
Footballguy
And Torrin Tucker!
Chris Smith
The Head Goon!
The offensive line played very well in 2004 and probably was deserving of a top-ten grade based on that season. However it soon became apparent last year that much of the success the unit achieved was the direct result of great coaching from Hudson Houck who left to coach the Miami Dolphins OL a year ago and had very good success there as well.You want a good sleeper OL this year. Pick Miami. Pretty good talent in combination with one of the best OL coaches in the game today.
M
MLBrandow
Guest
Kenyatta's got so much experience, he's going to level up in training camp!And Torrin Tucker!
ChampBailey24
Footballguy
And Tucker has been playing very well recently!Kenyatta's got so much experience, he's going to level up in training camp!And Torrin Tucker!
redman
Footballguy
This is as good of a place to start as any. How many of these lines are returning all of their starters from last year? I know Washington is and Seattle is not. Atlanta isn't either, and I seem to recall Indy shuffling their line. As continuity is a pretty important aspect of a good line, this should be considered.
GregR_2
Footballguy
For those who didn't look at the link, that ranking is the top 10 Run-blocking O-lines. And I'd think everyone should agree Houston should rank up there. You don't rank top 10 in yards per carry when your passing game is so ineffective teams can just focus on stopping the run, unless you have a good run-blocking line. Houston's problem is if you look over on the right side of the page that link points to, where they are ranked 32nd in pass protection.Maybe someone who has the time could take both the run and pass ratings from that site and add them together to see who has the lowest rating overall?
cstu
Footballguy
Yeah, I bet LT is just begging to get his 2002 and 2003 OL's back.Never in my life did I think a Oline would be dependent on the might Roman Oben
Do you think there could have been anything else that caused his low average in 2004, like say a torn groin that he played though? Or maybe that in 2005 he had a scrub playing left tackle and a punk from the Raiders purposely damaged his ribs after a tackle?
This_Is_Not_VRR
Footballguy
I certainly wasn't impressed with the Skins o-line in the playoffs against Seattle. Yes, Portis wasn't at 100%, but that was beside the point. The holes simply weren't there.Of course, maybe Seattle's defense is just that goodRG Randy Thomas
RT Jon Jansen
C Casey Rabach
LT Chris Samuels
LG Derrick Dockery
Four current or recent Pro Bowl players along that Washington Offensive Line. And one of the best (if not the best) Offensive Line Coaches in the history of the NFL in current Assistant Head Coach Joe Bugel. RB Clinton Portis had plenty of holes to run through while averaging almost 100 yards per game rushing...and QB Mark Brunell had plenty of time to throw the ball all year long.
Washington has the best Offensive Line in the NFL going into the 2006 season...this is a very nice mix of solid veteran players all coming into the prime of their NFL careers.
redman
Footballguy
And of course in that game they had 42-year old Ray Brown replacing Randy Thomas at RG, who IMHO was their best lineman last year.I certainly wasn't impressed with the Skins o-line in the playoffs against Seattle. Yes, Portis wasn't at 100%, but that was beside the point. The holes simply weren't there.Of course, maybe Seattle's defense is just that goodRG Randy ThomasRT Jon Jansen
C Casey Rabach
LT Chris Samuels
LG Derrick Dockery
Four current or recent Pro Bowl players along that Washington Offensive Line. And one of the best (if not the best) Offensive Line Coaches in the history of the NFL in current Assistant Head Coach Joe Bugel. RB Clinton Portis had plenty of holes to run through while averaging almost 100 yards per game rushing...and QB Mark Brunell had plenty of time to throw the ball all year long.
Washington has the best Offensive Line in the NFL going into the 2006 season...this is a very nice mix of solid veteran players all coming into the prime of their NFL careers.
This_Is_Not_VRR
Footballguy
You certainly must think very highly of Randy Thomas. I'd say that it's a major stretch to make out that line to be the best in football heading into next year. I'd be curious to hear if anyone outside of Redskins land shares your sentiment.And of course in that game they had 42-year old Ray Brown replacing Randy Thomas at RG, who IMHO was their best lineman last year.I certainly wasn't impressed with the Skins o-line in the playoffs against Seattle. Yes, Portis wasn't at 100%, but that was beside the point. The holes simply weren't there.Of course, maybe Seattle's defense is just that goodRG Randy Thomas
RT Jon Jansen
C Casey Rabach
LT Chris Samuels
LG Derrick Dockery
Four current or recent Pro Bowl players along that Washington Offensive Line. And one of the best (if not the best) Offensive Line Coaches in the history of the NFL in current Assistant Head Coach Joe Bugel. RB Clinton Portis had plenty of holes to run through while averaging almost 100 yards per game rushing...and QB Mark Brunell had plenty of time to throw the ball all year long.
Washington has the best Offensive Line in the NFL going into the 2006 season...this is a very nice mix of solid veteran players all coming into the prime of their NFL careers.
At any rate, I love Jansen. Any guy who can play with two broken thumbs is okay in my book
