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Better real QB: Romo or Cutler? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Wrigley
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Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Romo. Not even close.
Nero
Footballguy
Agree.
Blackjacks
Footballguy
Yes. Romo by far
Concept Coop
Footballguy
Romo.
Braktastic
Footballguy
Interesting question. To date? Romo. Going forward? I suspect it will be Cutler.
Adam Harstad
Moderator
I'd lean Romo, but I think both are fantastic, probably among the top 10 at the position. I'd take either over Joe Flacco.
MattFancy
Footballguy
Pains me to say it, but I think I'd go Romo. Cutler seems to always be hurt lately. Now the 2nd back surgery for Romo is certainly going to leave him a question mark going forward, but I think I'd still give him the slight edge.
To me though, Romo/Rivers/Cutler are all pretty much the same QB. They can win a game by making some great throws that few other QBs can make. But, they can also do something completely stupid that loses the game. When they're on, they're some of thr better QBs in the league.
To me though, Romo/Rivers/Cutler are all pretty much the same QB. They can win a game by making some great throws that few other QBs can make. But, they can also do something completely stupid that loses the game. When they're on, they're some of thr better QBs in the league.
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
Neither
I think they're in the same ballpark, but if I had to pick one or the other (with identical contracts), I'd go with Romo.
First rookie quarterback to start all sixteen games and make the playoffs.
First rookie quarterback to win two playoff games
Most starts by a quarterback in first season: 19
Most starts by a quarterback in first two seasons: 37
Most starts by a quarterback in first three seasons: 55
Most starts by a quarterback in first four seasons: 73
Most starts by a quarterback in first five seasons: 93
Most wins by a quarterback in first 80 consecutive starts: 54
Most combined regular and postseason wins in first three years as a quarterback: 36 (tied with Dan Marino)
Only quarterback to start and win a playoff game in each of his first five seasons
Most road playoff wins by a quarterback: 6
Most touchdowns in a postseason: 11 (tied with Joe Montana and Kurt Warner)
Most touchdowns without an interception in a postseason: 11 (tied with Joe Montana)
First quarterback to have a passer rating over 100 in all four games of a single postseason.
Most consecutive playoff games with three passing touchdowns: 3 (tied with Bernie Kosar, Kurt Warner, and Aaron Rodgers)
Note that after only five years Flacco already has more road playoff wins than any other QB in the HISTORY of the NFL. And his best years are ahead of him.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Romo's contract has more guaranteed money than Flacco's....
Look at the ages of these players too, Romo and Cutler are on the downside of careers where they have won nothing and Flacco is entering his prime. If we are talking about fantasy stats, Romo and Cutler are better, but not in real life.
[SIZE=10pt]The Dallas Cowboys have signed Tony Romohttp://www.footballoutsiders.com/player/23611/tony-romo[/SIZE] to a "six-year" extension (starting in 2014) for $108 million. It will significantly lower his 2013 cap number but also pay him $55 million guaranteed -- surprisingly, that's more guaranteed money than the Ravens gave Joe Flaccoearlier this offseason. You'll hear a lot of crying and moaning about how Flacco is a winner and Romo only has won one playoff game in his career, but overall there's no question which player has been better over the past few years. Romo was seventh in DYAR and tenth in DVOA this year. (He's listed on our site as sixth/ninth, but he drops a spot with some end-season PBP changes.) Romo has been in the top 11 for quarterback DVOA every single year he's been in the NFL. Joe Flacco has never been in the top 11 for quarterback DVOA.
[SIZE=10pt]When they asked me at this year's Sloan Conference who was the most underrated player in the NFL, I said Romo. Not only is he one of the league's top quarterbacks, he also has an outstanding record in the fourth quarter of close games as long as those games are not on national television. (No, I don't know why he has his worst fourth quarters on the biggest stages.)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]However, there is one issue with giving Romo all this money. He's going to be 33 this year, and his decline phase is likely to begin in the next year or two. Flacco is just 28, just about to hit his prime. I've always thought the idea that the Cowboys should get rid of Romo was ridiculous. And replace him with what? Are top-ten quarterbacks just floating around for free out there? However, seven years is an awful long time to have Romo on the books. There's going to be some serious dead cap money in the last couple years of this deal.[/SIZE]
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Romo. Despite his notorious late season hiccups, he is still in that 8-10 range when discussing the best starting QBs in the league.
Cutler has gotten a little better at not turning the ball over, but is probably an average NFL starting QB. Okay, he might be slightly above average (in the 11-13 range), but Romo is still better.
Cutler has gotten a little better at not turning the ball over, but is probably an average NFL starting QB. Okay, he might be slightly above average (in the 11-13 range), but Romo is still better.
Adam Harstad
Moderator
Joe Flacco is also tied for the fewest pro bowl appearances by any player in the history of the NFL, to say nothing of All-Pros. He's 16th among active QBs in passer rating (83.7) and 18th in yards per attempt (6.9). He got a lot of wins because he played with a fantastic defense. You know who else got a lot of wins because he played with a fantastic defense? Mark Sanchez. Sanchez is the only QB in history to make the AFCCG in each of his first two seasons, and he's one of the 10 highest-rated passers in postseason history. Sanchez has 4 career road playoff wins, a mere 2 behind Joe Flacco (and the exact same number as Flacco had at the end of his 5th season), and Sanchez is the only guy in history to play 6 playoff games in his first two years in the league. The Jets actually said that his total wins and his postseason performance were the reasons they gave him that massive contract. There's more to quarterback quality than getting a lot of wins and having a few good postseason games.
You know those 6 road wins Flacco had? In one of them, he was 9/23 for 135 yards with 0 TDs and 0 INTs. That's a 39% completion% and a QB rating of 59. In another road "win", he was 4/10 for 34 yards with 0 TDs and an INT (though in fairness, he also chipped in 5 rushing yards). If QB rating was on a scale from 1-10, his would have been perfect. On a scale of 1-158.3, though a QB rating of 10.0 is pretty bad. You'll pardon me if I don't give too much credence to his 6 career road playoff wins. I'm pretty sure that Tony Romo and Jay Cutler would have been perfectly capable of going 4/10 for 34 yards and 1 INT and letting Baltimore's defense and running game win a road playoff game for them, too.
Judging quarterbacks strictly by the quality of their play and not by the quality of their teammates, Joe Flacco looks an awful lot like a mediocre quarterback who had an unbelievable 4-game stretch (legitimately one of the best in history, especially given the stakes), and as a result became the highest-paid player in the league.
thriftyrocker
Footballguy
Romo is better.
It's telling that all Chicago coaches have decided their best chance is to neuter Cutler and not put the game in his hands.
Dallas hasn't made that decision with Romo. They give him the keys every week. They rely on him to keep them in a lot of games. Yes his history is to fall apart in crunch time but his history is also to make a ton of great plays along the way.
Cutler is just an arm. NFL wise I would prefer Flacco as I trust his decision making more. Cutler may fit the prototype better but he's not a good NFL QB.
Romo's good years are about 3:1 TD:INT. Cutlers are about 3:2.
It's telling that all Chicago coaches have decided their best chance is to neuter Cutler and not put the game in his hands.
Dallas hasn't made that decision with Romo. They give him the keys every week. They rely on him to keep them in a lot of games. Yes his history is to fall apart in crunch time but his history is also to make a ton of great plays along the way.
Cutler is just an arm. NFL wise I would prefer Flacco as I trust his decision making more. Cutler may fit the prototype better but he's not a good NFL QB.
Romo's good years are about 3:1 TD:INT. Cutlers are about 3:2.
Tau837
Footballguy
at the bolded. If you're going to make this claim, let's see your top 10. I want to see which guys you are ranking Cutler over.
Tau837
Footballguy
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
Def not top 10!
Furthermore, how can you rank either ahead of a guy who you know is capable of catching fire throughout the postseason?
Adam Harstad
Moderator
Sure. These rankings are strictly meant as an "if I had to play a game tomorrow, and I had a perfectly average team in every way, who would I want quarterbacking it?"
Top tier:
Peyton Manning, Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, Tom Brady. I'll let someone else argue the order, since it's irrelevant to this discussion.
Second tier:
Russell Wilson, Philip Rivers, Ben Roethlisberger, Tony Romo. Probably in that exact order.
Third tier:
Matt Ryan, Cam Newton, Andrew Luck, Jay Cutler. It's a lot harder to put an order to these guys. Looking at it and going over it, I'd probably put Cutler last in this group, which would make him QB12 instead of QB10. So I'm glad I said "probably" among the top 10 and not "definitely" among the top 10.
Notable omissions-
Robert Griffin III: will easily be there some day. Is not there today.
Matt Stafford: His amazing beginning to the season convinced me I was wrong about him, but the way he fell apart without Calvin convinced me I was wrong to think I was wrong. Too reliant on huge volume and the best receiver in the NFL to be a top-12 QB.
Nick Foles: Hard to imagine a better start to his career, but I think Chip Kelly makes him look better than he is, and I'd need to see a larger sample size.
Joe Flacco: Pretty sure I've covered that already this thread.
Colin Kaepernick: He was close for me. Like Griffin, he'll be there someday, but I wouldn't put him there today.
Andy Dalton: Lol, no.
Alex Smith: Double lol, no.
Eli Manning: He's Joe Flacco on the downside of his career.
Michael Vick: One of the most dangerous weapons in the league, but we're a couple years removed from any quality film on him.
Anyone I missed? Which do you disagree with?
He carried the team to Super Bowl with his arm and a defense that wasn't that great. He put up historic numbers in the postseason. Also, he has playe in a conservative offense his whole career, which has kept his numbers down.
This year the Ravens had no O-line, a historically bad run game, and undrafted rookie Marlon Brown was the 2nd most targeted receiver
Adam Harstad
Moderator
Because Jake Delhomme isn't even in the league anymore.Def not top 10!
Furthermore, how can you rank either ahead of a guy who you know is capable of catching fire throughout the postseason?
Also, Flacco isn't he highest paid player. Any time someone says that it just shows me that they don't understand how NFL contracts work.
Adam Harstad
Moderator
thriftyrocker
Footballguy
Adam Harstad
Moderator
Not to nitpick, but I said he was PROBABLY in the top 10, then when I ranked I said I'd PROBABLY put him 12th, and then I followed that up in literally the very next sentence by saying "So I'm glad I said "probably" among the top 10 and not "definitely" among the top 10."
Tau837
Footballguy
Well, top 10 was the crux of the disagreement. I knew there were more than 10 I'd prefer over Cutler.Sure. These rankings are strictly meant as an "if I had to play a game tomorrow, and I had a perfectly average team in every way, who would I want quarterbacking it?"
Top tier:
Peyton Manning, Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, Tom Brady. I'll let someone else argue the order, since it's irrelevant to this discussion.
Second tier:
Russell Wilson, Philip Rivers, Ben Roethlisberger, Tony Romo. Probably in that exact order.
Third tier:
Matt Ryan, Cam Newton, Andrew Luck, Jay Cutler. It's a lot harder to put an order to these guys. Looking at it and going over it, I'd probably put Cutler last in this group, which would make him QB12 instead of QB10. So I'm glad I said "probably" among the top 10 and not "definitely" among the top 10.
Notable omissions-
Robert Griffin III: will easily be there some day. Is not there today.
Matt Stafford: His amazing beginning to the season convinced me I was wrong about him, but the way he fell apart without Calvin convinced me I was wrong to think I was wrong. Too reliant on huge volume and the best receiver in the NFL to be a top-12 QB.
Nick Foles: Hard to imagine a better start to his career, but I think Chip Kelly makes him look better than he is, and I'd need to see a larger sample size.
Joe Flacco: Pretty sure I've covered that already this thread.
Colin Kaepernick: He was close for me. Like Griffin, he'll be there someday, but I wouldn't put him there today.
Andy Dalton: Lol, no.
Alex Smith: Double lol, no.
Eli Manning: He's Joe Flacco on the downside of his career.
Michael Vick: One of the most dangerous weapons in the league, but we're a couple years removed from any quality film on him.
Anyone I missed? Which do you disagree with?
Personally, I'd also prefer Stafford, Foles, and Kaepernick to Cutler, and I don't see much of a difference between Cutler and Flacco. Playing on a perfectly average offense would be a downgrade for Cutler and an upgrade for Flacco. That puts Cutler in the 15-16 range if he does indeed deserve to be ranked above Dalton, Smith, Bradford, Palmer, et al. And even if he does, IMO there is less separation between him and the next cluster than between him and the guys I'd rank above him.
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fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
I used to make fun of Flacco, not anymore though.... You realize in the last two years during the playoffs he has thrown 15 TDs and 1 INT with a QBR well over 100? Not like he's been throwing to Megatron and AJ Green either. If it wasn't for a dropped pass in 2011 which he threw a perfect ball, the guy could be a back to back Super Bowl Champ. Yet you like Romo and Cutler over Flacco?Adam Harstad said:Because Jake Delhomme isn't even in the league anymore.fantasycurse42 said:Def not top 10!Just Win Baby said:
Furthermore, how can you rank either ahead of a guy who you know is capable of catching fire throughout the postseason?
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
I think Flacco is better than Adam does, but I still wouldn't call him elite. I think Adam's top 8 is dead accurate, although I'd put Ryan and Luck in that 2nd tier. I'd then have Flacco and Cam both ahead of Cutler, with Cutler then somewhere in the next tier. And I agree that Foles need to have a bigger sample size before he can put in the top 10.
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thriftyrocker
Footballguy
If the question becomes "If you're starting an NFL franchise tomorrow which QB would you rather have" he's not even in my top 20.
Adam Harstad
Moderator
I don't believe that there is anything fundamentally different about the playoffs compared to the regular season, so I prefer to judge a player based off of a 100-game sample instead of a 4-game sample.I used to make fun of Flacco, not anymore though.... You realize in the last two years during the playoffs he has thrown 15 TDs and 1 INT with a QBR well over 100? Not like he's been throwing to Megatron and AJ Green either. If it wasn't for a dropped pass in 2011 which he threw a perfect ball, the guy could be a back to back Super Bowl Champ. Yet you like Romo and Cutler over Flacco?Adam Harstad said:Because Jake Delhomme isn't even in the league anymore.fantasycurse42 said:Def not top 10!Just Win Baby said:
Furthermore, how can you rank either ahead of a guy who you know is capable of catching fire throughout the postseason?
My Jake Delhomme comparison wasn't meant to make fun of Flacco. I think it's a pretty fair comparison.
From 2008-2012, Joe Flacco started 80 regular season games. His numbers were 1503/2484 for 17,600/102/56
From 2003-2008, Jake Delhomme started 79 regular season games. His numbers were 1402/2346 for 17,202/112/70
Flacco's regular season QB rating was 86.3. Comp% = 60.5%. YPA = 7.1. 46 more TDs than INTs.
Delhomme's regular season QB rating was 85.9. Comp% = 59.8%. YPA = 7.3. 42 more TDs than INTs.
Both guys played on teams built around the defense and running game. Delhomme went 49-30. Flacco went 54-26. Delhomme had 1 pro bowl to Flacco's 0. Flacco had that magical 2012 playoff run, but people forget how ridiculous Delhomme was in 2003- 1000 yards, 6 TDs vs. 1 INT, a QB rating over 100 in three of the four games and 96.6 in the fourth, an obscene 9.7 yards per attempt passing. Delhomme had a SB appearance and a second NFCCG appearance during that span. His postseason QB rating was 95 even, and his YPA was 8.6, both substantially better than Flacco's career marks.
Now, just because Delhomme experienced an epic meltdown after that run doesn't mean I'd expect Flacco to do the same. I'm just saying, I don't see anything substantially different between Flacco's body of work from 2008 to 2012 and Delhomme's body of work from 2003 to 2008.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
There's not a need for anything lengthy. It's Romo in a landslide.
Adam Harstad
Moderator
Agree to disagree, then. Looking at the names, I think I'd lean towards slotting Cutler at 12th in the league, but I think he's closer to 9th than he is to 13th. You asked for my list, and I've provided it. If you'd like to discuss any particular player I've got Cutler over, I'd be happy to- you know I never shy away from a friendly disagreement- but it seems to me like we just fundamentally disagree here, and I doubt either of us would be able to change the other's mind.Just Win Baby said:Well, top 10 was the crux of the disagreement. I knew there were more than 10 I'd prefer over Cutler.Adam Harstad said:Sure. These rankings are strictly meant as an "if I had to play a game tomorrow, and I had a perfectly average team in every way, who would I want quarterbacking it?"Just Win Baby said:
Top tier:
Peyton Manning, Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, Tom Brady. I'll let someone else argue the order, since it's irrelevant to this discussion.
Second tier:
Russell Wilson, Philip Rivers, Ben Roethlisberger, Tony Romo. Probably in that exact order.
Third tier:
Matt Ryan, Cam Newton, Andrew Luck, Jay Cutler. It's a lot harder to put an order to these guys. Looking at it and going over it, I'd probably put Cutler last in this group, which would make him QB12 instead of QB10. So I'm glad I said "probably" among the top 10 and not "definitely" among the top 10.
Notable omissions-
Robert Griffin III: will easily be there some day. Is not there today.
Matt Stafford: His amazing beginning to the season convinced me I was wrong about him, but the way he fell apart without Calvin convinced me I was wrong to think I was wrong. Too reliant on huge volume and the best receiver in the NFL to be a top-12 QB.
Nick Foles: Hard to imagine a better start to his career, but I think Chip Kelly makes him look better than he is, and I'd need to see a larger sample size.
Joe Flacco: Pretty sure I've covered that already this thread.
Colin Kaepernick: He was close for me. Like Griffin, he'll be there someday, but I wouldn't put him there today.
Andy Dalton: Lol, no.
Alex Smith: Double lol, no.
Eli Manning: He's Joe Flacco on the downside of his career.
Michael Vick: One of the most dangerous weapons in the league, but we're a couple years removed from any quality film on him.
Anyone I missed? Which do you disagree with?
Personally, I'd also prefer Stafford, Foles, and Kaepernick to Cutler, and I don't see much of a difference between Cutler and Flacco. Playing on a perfectly average offense would be a downgrade for Cutler and an upgrade for Flacco. That puts Cutler in the 15-16 range if he does indeed deserve to be ranked above Dalton, Smith, Bradford, Palmer, et al. And even if he does, IMO there is less separation between him and the next cluster than between him and the guys I'd rank above him.
False Start
Footballguy
Do people forget that Romo throws interceptions at the worst possible times in real football games?
Adam Harstad
Moderator
This is a completely different question, and at first blush, I'd be inclined to agree. For starting a franchise, I'd bump Griffin, Stafford, Foles, and Kaepernick ahead, for sure. Guys like Locker, Dalton, Flacco, and Bradford suddenly become much more interesting decisions. Not to mention the incoming rookies- I'd take anybody selected in the top 10 over Cutler at a minimum, and might even lean towards any legitimate first rounder.
Adam Harstad
Moderator
He doesn't, at least not at a rate any higher than any other QB. It just seems that way because of the availability heuristic.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
He also has, according to ESPN, the most game-winning drives in the 4th quarter or OT since 2011.
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
The road in the regular season leads to the playoffs, the road in the playoffs leads to the Super Bowl, key difference... Give me a decent QB in Sept through December that lights it up in Jan-Feb seven days a week & twice on SundayI don't believe that there is anything fundamentally different about the playoffs compared to the regular season, so I prefer to judge a player based off of a 100-game sample instead of a 4-game sample.I used to make fun of Flacco, not anymore though.... You realize in the last two years during the playoffs he has thrown 15 TDs and 1 INT with a QBR well over 100? Not like he's been throwing to Megatron and AJ Green either. If it wasn't for a dropped pass in 2011 which he threw a perfect ball, the guy could be a back to back Super Bowl Champ. Yet you like Romo and Cutler over Flacco?Adam Harstad said:Because Jake Delhomme isn't even in the league anymore.fantasycurse42 said:Def not top 10!Just Win Baby said:
Furthermore, how can you rank either ahead of a guy who you know is capable of catching fire throughout the postseason?
Adam Harstad
Moderator
Yes, obviously the playoffs behave fundamentally differently than the regular season in that they are single-elimination and a champion is crowned at the end. I just don't see any reason to believe that playoff performance should be treated as more predictive than regular-season performance. If one QB has been excellent in 100 regular-season games and bad in 4 playoff games (say, Tony Romo), and another QB has been bad in 100 regular-season games and excellent in 4 playoff games (say, Mark Sanchez), I don't know why anyone would prefer the latter guy. The postseason meaning of the games is fundamentally different in the playoffs, but the games themselves are exactly the same. Football is football, so give me the guy who has been better at football over the much larger sample.The road in the regular season leads to the playoffs, the road in the playoffs leads to the Super Bowl, key difference... Give me a decent QB in Sept through December that lights it up in Jan-Feb seven days a week & twice on Sunday
I assume that by worst possible times you mean in the 4th quarter.
Romo has the highest career fourth-quarter passer rating (101.9) in NFL history, ahead of Aaron Rodgers (99.2), Steve Young (97.9), Kurt Warner (91.9) and Tom Brady (91.6).
ShaHBucks
Footballguy
I'm not sure how you defend Cutler by laughing at Alex Smith and Andy Dalton. They all dam near put together the same kind of season. And Cutler has never played on the level Smith did last season, granted he's never been as bad as Smith pre- good coaching either. Whatever, i just found that interesting since Cutler is more of a fan/media fave of the bunch.Adam Harstad said:Sure. These rankings are strictly meant as an "if I had to play a game tomorrow, and I had a perfectly average team in every way, who would I want quarterbacking it?"Just Win Baby said:
Top tier:
Peyton Manning, Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, Tom Brady. I'll let someone else argue the order, since it's irrelevant to this discussion.
Second tier:
Russell Wilson, Philip Rivers, Ben Roethlisberger, Tony Romo. Probably in that exact order.
Third tier:
Matt Ryan, Cam Newton, Andrew Luck, Jay Cutler. It's a lot harder to put an order to these guys. Looking at it and going over it, I'd probably put Cutler last in this group, which would make him QB12 instead of QB10. So I'm glad I said "probably" among the top 10 and not "definitely" among the top 10.
Notable omissions-
Robert Griffin III: will easily be there some day. Is not there today.
Matt Stafford: His amazing beginning to the season convinced me I was wrong about him, but the way he fell apart without Calvin convinced me I was wrong to think I was wrong. Too reliant on huge volume and the best receiver in the NFL to be a top-12 QB.
Nick Foles: Hard to imagine a better start to his career, but I think Chip Kelly makes him look better than he is, and I'd need to see a larger sample size.
Joe Flacco: Pretty sure I've covered that already this thread.
Colin Kaepernick: He was close for me. Like Griffin, he'll be there someday, but I wouldn't put him there today.
Andy Dalton: Lol, no.
Alex Smith: Double lol, no.
Eli Manning: He's Joe Flacco on the downside of his career.
Michael Vick: One of the most dangerous weapons in the league, but we're a couple years removed from any quality film on him.
Anyone I missed? Which do you disagree with?
ShaHBucks
Footballguy
I'm not sure how you defend Cutler by laughing at Alex Smith and Andy Dalton. They all dam near put together the same kind of season. And Cutler has never played on the level Smith did last season before he was benched, granted he's never been as bad as Smith pre- good coaching either. Whatever, i just found that interesting since Cutler is more of a fan/media fave of the bunch.Adam Harstad said:Sure. These rankings are strictly meant as an "if I had to play a game tomorrow, and I had a perfectly average team in every way, who would I want quarterbacking it?"Just Win Baby said:
Top tier:
Peyton Manning, Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, Tom Brady. I'll let someone else argue the order, since it's irrelevant to this discussion.
Second tier:
Russell Wilson, Philip Rivers, Ben Roethlisberger, Tony Romo. Probably in that exact order.
Third tier:
Matt Ryan, Cam Newton, Andrew Luck, Jay Cutler. It's a lot harder to put an order to these guys. Looking at it and going over it, I'd probably put Cutler last in this group, which would make him QB12 instead of QB10. So I'm glad I said "probably" among the top 10 and not "definitely" among the top 10.
Notable omissions-
Robert Griffin III: will easily be there some day. Is not there today.
Matt Stafford: His amazing beginning to the season convinced me I was wrong about him, but the way he fell apart without Calvin convinced me I was wrong to think I was wrong. Too reliant on huge volume and the best receiver in the NFL to be a top-12 QB.
Nick Foles: Hard to imagine a better start to his career, but I think Chip Kelly makes him look better than he is, and I'd need to see a larger sample size.
Joe Flacco: Pretty sure I've covered that already this thread.
Colin Kaepernick: He was close for me. Like Griffin, he'll be there someday, but I wouldn't put him there today.
Andy Dalton: Lol, no.
Alex Smith: Double lol, no.
Eli Manning: He's Joe Flacco on the downside of his career.
Michael Vick: One of the most dangerous weapons in the league, but we're a couple years removed from any quality film on him.
Anyone I missed? Which do you disagree with?
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Buffaloes
Footballguy
Hoss Style
Footballguy
Stats are a funny thing, huh?
I can dig up the article if needed, but somewhere I read about how Romo is GREAT when it comes to catching up when the team is down, but pretty darn bad when the game is close and he's trying to get the lead or hold it (it could just be one of those previous two, I don't remember exactly).
But even without the stats, for those of us that watch the games, can we really honestly say that he doesn't make bad plays often in critical times? From the game he flubbed the hold for the PAT, all the way to this season - it happens.
He's not the worst, but to cover up his meltdowns with a 4th Qtr rating stat is kinda missing the point, in my opinion.
I think it stands out more for Romo because he actually is VERY talented, so when he makes a mistake at a critical time, people scratch their heads because it's not what a "big time" QB is supposed to do, yet he seems to have the talent to be just that - Big Time.
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Warrior
Footballguy
Agreed. Romo's team is usually down in the 4th. That leads to prevent defenses. Not difficult to look elite when you're in there against backups that are giving you a 15 yard cushion.
Whenever the Cowboys close in, Romo's stats experience a steep drop.
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