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Big offseason upgrades? Who fixed what? Homers..? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter daveR
- Start date
Snorkelson
Footballguy
Lions have a real front office it looks like. And finally look like we may make special teams tackles, added lots of depth type talent that will help there. Low level signings outside of Marvin jones but they make sense and you can see where the pieces fit. Retained key fa (although would have liked to keep Abdul-quddus, the one good thing Miami did this offseason).
MAC_32
Footballguy
O'Neil is gone though. Downgrade for the 9ers, who knows about the Browns. Whitner and Dansby won't be missed on the field. Dansby may be missed off of it. Curious if Gipson's regression was all O'Neil or not.My Browns have released their top tacklers from 2015. A bad defense has gotten worse.
In the other hand, they will assuredly have new top tacklers this season.My Browns have released their top tacklers from 2015. A bad defense has gotten worse.
flapgreen
Footballguy
Run It Up
Footballguy
A lot of handwaving and dismissing the Pats acquisition of Bennett, come October no one will be surprised at how dumb NEs offense is.
Solder and Vollmer healthy going into the season, getting more depth on the interior.
Pats were on a record breaking pace last season while everything was falling apart. Started the season without Solder, Lafell or Deviln, no one knew who/what Dion Lewis was.
Added depth at TE and WR with Clay Harbor and Chris Hogan. If people were surprised by NEs 4TE redzone package they are gonna be even more surprised by their 2TE 2HB package, 4 incredibly capable big bodied receivers in Gronk, Bennett, Harbor and Develin, throw in Edelman or Lewis
Solder and Vollmer healthy going into the season, getting more depth on the interior.
Pats were on a record breaking pace last season while everything was falling apart. Started the season without Solder, Lafell or Deviln, no one knew who/what Dion Lewis was.
Added depth at TE and WR with Clay Harbor and Chris Hogan. If people were surprised by NEs 4TE redzone package they are gonna be even more surprised by their 2TE 2HB package, 4 incredibly capable big bodied receivers in Gronk, Bennett, Harbor and Develin, throw in Edelman or Lewis
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Casting Couch
Footballguy
New England and Oakland did very well this off season.
flapgreen
Footballguy
No one is ever surprised by the Pats. Always a contenderA lot of handwaving and dismissing the Pats acquisition of Bennett, come October no one will be surprised at how dumb NEs offense is.
Solder and Vollmer healthy going into the season, getting more depth on the interior.
Pats were on a record breaking pace last season while everything was falling apart. Started the season without Solder, Lafell or Deviln, no one knew who/what Dion Lewis was.
Added depth at TE and WR with Clay Harbor and Chris Hogan. If people were surprised by NEs 4TE redzone package they are gonna be even more surprised by their 2TE 2HB package, 4 incredibly capable big bodied receivers in Gronk, Bennett, Harbor and Develin, throw in Edelman or Lewis
snellman
Footballguy
Vikings signed Boone and Andre Smith to hopefully help what was the biggest weakness last season and give a little nastiness to the o-line (Boone especially). Not sure about the Griffith signing or the resigning of Sendejo. Sendejo has shown some promise, but it seems like he is always looking to make the highlight reel hit and has injured a number of his teammates in doing so. WR was the other weakness that was not addressed, but there wasn't much more talent in the FA pool than what was already on the roster so I am ok with the lack of activity.
The biggest move could be the move back indoors.
The biggest move could be the move back indoors.
Run It Up
Footballguy
You're right, a little hyperbole there. But still, the Bennett thread is very surprising, seems like at least half of the people are expecting Scott Chandler levels of production from Bennett, those people are crazy.
Run It Up
Footballguy
Thinking too simplistic here, that trade helped both teams this year and it helps the Pats in the future a great deal.GordonGekko said:
1 year of Chandler Jones at the cost of not being able to afford any of the moves the Pats made - or the moves they will be making, in return they got a second and Jonathon Cooper. Jones was gone, despite disappearing quite often he was still an elite DE, which means hes going to get paid. When have the Pats paid anyone other than Mccourty or Brady? Jones' contract is gonna be terrible, the Cardinals say they can resign him, thats not happening, not if they wanna actually win games. So the Pats lost Chandler Jones and got a former first rounder and a 2nd round pick out of it. Then signed 3 other former first round picks for peanuts. Then traded a 6th for a year of probably the second most complete TE in the NFL after Gronk. Extending Chung was smart, last two years hes been one of the best SS in the league, cheap extension.
In case you weren't watching last year, Chandler Jones was leading the league in sacks for half the season. Then disappeared completely, all the while getting outplayed by a highly scouted castoff from Cleveland, who will be among those who get to split what would have been Chandler Jones contract among the three of them.
Sucks losing Jones, but this is one of the few times I think BB managed to get the absolute most out of losing a piece. I hope whoever signs Chandler Jones to his multi year 100+ million dollar contract enjoys participation awards.
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flapgreen
Footballguy
As a Bears fan, I can tell you how dominate Bennett can be. If the Pats can keep him on the right path and keep everyone healthy, they should contend as always. He's a great blocker and receiver but there's a reason he's been on do many teams. If anyone can keep him straight, it's Belichek, though.
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
But can Bennett get in line? Plenty of good players go there and it works, but just as many go there and cant conform.
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flapgreen
Footballguy
That's a good question. I'll give Bennett this. He's never been known as a bad teammate or bad guy like Marshall was. Everyone seems to like him but get tired of his antics. If you've read much about him, he's a really strange dude. I think he'll be fine in New England for a couple years, which I'm sure is all they're expecting. Great athlete and cheap for a TE of his caliber. If the Bears we're on the brink of the Super Bowl, I don't think they would've traded him.
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Run It Up
Footballguy
Gronk 70-85 rec, 1300 yards, 10-15 TDs.
Edelman 90-100+ rec, 1000 yards, 6-9 TDs
Bennett 65-80 rec, 700-900 yards, 6-10 TDs.
Better than Hernandez. Think Brady has more than 40 through the air this year, for the second time (if Brady plays 16 games
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thatguy
Footballguy
I'd put Edelman at 100-120 1250 8-10 if healthy 16 games. Agree with Gronk and Marty.Gronk 70-85 rec, 1300 yards, 10-15 TDs.
Edelman 90-100+ rec, 1000 yards, 6-9 TDs
Bennett 65-80 rec, 700-900 yards, 6-10 TDs.
Better than Hernandez. Think Brady has more than 40 through the air this year, for the second time (if Brady plays 16 games
daveR
Footballguy
steelers1080
Footballguy
Don't think any team vastly improved during FA even if they did make lots of moves. Most teams either got better or worse by a little bit. Denver and Cleveland probably lost the most, but Denver definitely has farther to fall.
Some teams made smart upgrades such as AZs pass rush, Steelers TE situation (as a homer), and Chicagos LB situation. Don't think that Miami, NYG, or Houston will improve much even with their flashy moves.
Some teams made smart upgrades such as AZs pass rush, Steelers TE situation (as a homer), and Chicagos LB situation. Don't think that Miami, NYG, or Houston will improve much even with their flashy moves.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Looks like the annual kick off of the Patriots will put up 8,000 yards of offense and 70 TDs campaign is getting an early start. NE has averaged 6000/47 offensively the past three seasons.Gronk 70-85 rec, 1300 yards, 10-15 TDs.
Edelman 90-100+ rec, 1000 yards, 6-9 TDs
Bennett 65-80 rec, 700-900 yards, 6-10 TDs.
Better than Hernandez. Think Brady has more than 40 through the air this year, for the second time (if Brady plays 16 games
Adding up the high side for these players, that's 3200/34. And that is ignoring any other WR (at the moment, Washington, Hogan, Amendola, and Martin to factor in), nothing from any RBs at all . . .rushing or receiving (Lewis, White, Bolden, Brown, and Develin), and anything else other rookies or players not mentioned will contribute (probably not much, but still something).
From the projections listed, IMO Gronk and Bennett are too high. Gronk probably 1150/11. Bennett probably 50/600/6. Edelman good for 6.5-70-0.4 per game for however many games he plays. Call it 14 games = roughly 90/975/6. My quick pass totals for those three are in the 2725/22 range. All in all, too many mouths to feed.
Not singling Run It Up out, but other people will suggest Hogan will put up LaFell numbers circa 2014. Others will allocate Lewis 1500/10. Projections will start looking like video game numbers.
At some point, I still think NE will start reducing Brady's workload and increase team carries pounding the ball on the ground. I know that sounds odd given that they don't really have a top notch pounder in the backfield right now, but Brady isn't getting any younger and he would likely benefit from fewer drop backs and attempts, maybe down to 550 attempts. That's only 5 fewer attempts per game, but it might help Brady and key targets stay fresher later in the season. And dare I suggest that they start taking him out after three quarters if they are up 3-4 scores.
Run It Up
Footballguy
I think my numbers are realistic provided NE can play 16 games with Brady and at least 10 with a stable line.
I based my numbers for Edelman aand Gronk off last year. On my phone but I have projections for most of the offense on my pc at home. If Brady plays 16 games I had him breaking the 40 TDs mark and getting pretty close to 5k yards.
The Pats have averaged 600+ attempts with ease the last half decade,it just takes a little bit to push them over the edge. As I said above, a much worse team was on record breaking pace last year, they should get better, the only thing in their way is a possible Brady suspension and an on paper brutal schedule.
I based my numbers for Edelman aand Gronk off last year. On my phone but I have projections for most of the offense on my pc at home. If Brady plays 16 games I had him breaking the 40 TDs mark and getting pretty close to 5k yards.
The Pats have averaged 600+ attempts with ease the last half decade,it just takes a little bit to push them over the edge. As I said above, a much worse team was on record breaking pace last year, they should get better, the only thing in their way is a possible Brady suspension and an on paper brutal schedule.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
This isn't a Patriots thread, but there are plenty of other potential concerns for NE. IMO, Brady serving a suspension probably isn't one of them. No matter what the appellate court rules, I don't see Deflategate being over and done with. A "victory" for either side will be appealed by the losing party to the Supreme Court. And a decision to remanded the case back to the lower court won't result in a suspension. So pretty much in all outcomes the court case will live on unless either party caves or a settlement is reached.
As far as other concerns, Brady is getting up there and at some point he will no longer produce as a Top 3 elite. As NE has experienced in 2 of the past 3 seasons, injuries can destroy your season. And the OL play was horrible last year when Brady often getting rid of the ball in under 2 seconds. Those are 3 concerns that should worry Patriot fans more than a Brady suspension.
As far as other concerns, Brady is getting up there and at some point he will no longer produce as a Top 3 elite. As NE has experienced in 2 of the past 3 seasons, injuries can destroy your season. And the OL play was horrible last year when Brady often getting rid of the ball in under 2 seconds. Those are 3 concerns that should worry Patriot fans more than a Brady suspension.
daveR
Footballguy
Yep. And, that's my problem. They might not be the best in the NFL, but there are other, worse guys, to drop first. I don't know how dumping YOUR best can be good when there are other holes to fill. They did this a couple years ago when they brought these two (Dansby & Whittner) in. They dropped TJ Ward & D'Quell Jackson. It was widely received as a tremendous upgrade, but it wasn't. If you're going to sign FAs, either fill a hole or make sure the upgrade is huge!Deadpan said:
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Huh? I haven't heard anyone say it was a bad move. They got him for pennies and he's always been a very good player (and while he's a weirdo, he's not really a bad seed).
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I was addressing this "A lot of handwaving and dismissing the Pats acquisition of Bennett..." I gathered he himself liked the acquisition.
Run It Up
Footballguy
Not to further derail the thread, wasn't gonna comment further, but pride and all that...
Seen a lot of people on this board put his floor at what Chandler did which is probably fair if you dont think hes a very good player, but then they puut his ceiling as a middling TE2. That is what I'm saying is crazy.
They liken the best case to Gronk/Hernandez which is flawed in itself, more realistically it's what can NE do with two Gronks.
Seen a lot of people on this board put his floor at what Chandler did which is probably fair if you dont think hes a very good player, but then they puut his ceiling as a middling TE2. That is what I'm saying is crazy.
They liken the best case to Gronk/Hernandez which is flawed in itself, more realistically it's what can NE do with two Gronks.
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Anarchy99
Footballguy
IMO, Bennett will be someone in between Gronk and Chandler. I don't think he reaches Hernandez's best season totals, and it probably won't be close.
The season Bennett had 90 catches in Chicago, the Bears had 4 players with over 100 targets (Jeffery, Forte, Bennett, and Marshall). Everyone else combined didn't add up to 100 targets, and the high mark was 32.
Brady has had only 2 seasons where he had 3 players with 100 targets. By comparison, he's had 8 seasons with only 1 player hitting 100 targets.
Gronk, Edelman, and Lewis all seem like locks to get 100 targets if they stay healthy. If Bennett somehow is added to that, that leaves table scraps for everyone else. Over the past 3 seasons, projected over a full season, Edelman has averaged 153 targets and Gronk 137 targets. At the rate he was going, Lewis would have been projected out to 112 targets. That's 402 targets from 3 players. If we project Brady at 600 attempts, that leaves under 200 targets for Bennett, Hogan, Washington, Amendola, Martin, White, Bolden, and any other fringe RB, TE, WR, additional free agents, or rookies. Hernandez got 113 targets in his best season with the Pats.
The best case scenario for Bennett is he is the fourth option in terms of targets (barring injuries), and he may not even end up that high if they decide on a primary WR2 in a role similar to LaFell or Lloyd.
If you are thinking Gronk, the Sequel, I think you are going to end up pretty disappointed.
Doesn't he have a temper where he doesn't like serious competition in camp? Likes it to be nice n easy?
IIRC He was in a fight years ago and never let it go, which eventually led to him being cut.
Sorry if I'm wrong but, if not I just can't see him making the Patriots. BB and his staff will push him to get the best out of him and he will get roughed up by the D and...to do all that then watch Gronk play? It doesn't fit for me.
When the Pats were awesome with two TEs they were record breaking. I have a hard time putting Aaron's stats onto Bennett too. I remember Hernandez being significantly better than Bennett, way more fluid and probably faster.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Run It Up
Footballguy
Hernandez was somewhere between a HB and TE. Bennett and Gronk share a mold. Bennett will not play a role similar to Hernandez.
Even if Lewis pushes Bennett for 3rd in targets there's plenty of room for both to approach 100 targets. Is the year you're referring to 2014? When Jules, Lafell and Gronk all almost broke 1k yards? Cause this team is better than that team.
Even if Lewis pushes Bennett for 3rd in targets there's plenty of room for both to approach 100 targets. Is the year you're referring to 2014? When Jules, Lafell and Gronk all almost broke 1k yards? Cause this team is better than that team.
Googling-For Dallas he was called "mopey" behind Witten.Dr. Octopus said:
I see fights with Kyle Fuller and Kyle Long
Mouthy at Giants camp
I stopped googling there. With NY, Coughlin hasn't done "camp coughlin" like in Jax but it's been a typical challenging camp. BB and Coughlin have similar roots and some similar tendencies, I'm still of the opinion he gets cut.
I had forgotten about Witten and him. He was young then so I'm willing to discard it, but he was not productive with a better TE around.
