Bizarre series during Redskin-Colts game (1 Viewer)

[Marvelous]

PFT has a decent writeup on the events (complete with their editorial)

10. Someone Needs to be Fired in Washington.There was an extremely bizarre situation that unfolded in Sunday's game between the Redskins and the Colts. After receiver Antwaan Randle El scored on an 87-yard punt return in the second quarter, he was flagged for unsportsmanlike conduct. That pushed the kickoff from the 30 to the 15. On the kickoff, Sean Taylor was offside (but surprisingly didn't spit on anyone). That pushed the ball from the 15 to the 10.Exit kicker Nick Novak. Enter punter Derrick Frost.That's right, the 'Skins were going to punt the ball. Per the instructions of special teams coach Danny Smith.The only problem? You can't punt the ball on a kickoff. By rule. How in the hell does a guy who is the special teams coach for an NFL franchise not know that?To make matters worse, Frost got pissy when he was told that he couldn't punt the ball, removing his helmet and drawing an automatic unsportsmanlike conduct penalty.That pushed the ball from the 10 to the five.The Redskins were leading 14-10 at the time. With the ensuing short field, the Colts were able to squeeze out a field goal before halftime.They'd score 23 more unanswered points in the second half.Though we suspect that the defeat was inevitable, the failure of a special teams coach to know that a punt was prohibited on a kickoff is inexcusable. It's like a hitting coach in (yawn) baseball not knowing that a bunt attempt that goes foul with two strikes results in an out. It's like a basketball coach thinking a foul on a three-point shot results in only two free throws. It's like a hockey coach not knowing what in the hell those blue lines are for.Smith is a veteran coach, and he has plenty of experience with special teams. But, c'mon, how does the guy think it's okay to choose to punt on a kickoff? Sorry, Danny, you might be a really nice guy. But you gotta go.

I watched the game and don't usually pay that much attention to the announcers except when I want a little more info. So the rest of my post is now a rant on the poor announcng.They made no mention of why Randle El got an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty. It turns out, the goal post cannot used as a prop in an end zone celebration. Then the Redskins punted the ball from the 10. The whistle blows. The announcers made no mention that the Redskins punted the ball rather than kicked off and that that was not allowed. I am still baffled that if the Redskins indeed tried an illegal play, why wasn't there some illegal prodedure penalty.When Derrick Frost takes his helmet off, the announcers finally start talking about what is taking place on the field. I thought the announcers were supposed to help us understand what is going on, but they provided no insight in this sequence of events.

 

[redman]

I agree on the poor announcing.

The unsportsmanlike conduct penalties for celebrations are getting ridiculous, and I'm one who's pretty conservative in that regard.

 

[Mik789fl]

Try to name 3 announcers or color-commentators who show "insight". Most color guys merely state the obvious,most announcers are content to scream and yell when they think a "big" play has happened and then need to get the next promo by the network a.s.a.p. Curt Gowdy and Al Deragodis,where have you gone?

 

[djcolts]

Try to name 3 announcers or color-commentators who show "insight". Most color guys merely state the obvious,most announcers are content to scream and yell when they think a "big" play has happened and then need to get the next promo by the network a.s.a.p. Curt Gowdy and Al Deragodis,where have you gone?

I can't name one. NFL announcers are terrible - and it is partially because the announcers are too busy washing the balls of the stars (pardon my French) and not paying attention to the details of the game.

 

[redman]

Try to name 3 announcers or color-commentators who show "insight". Most color guys merely state the obvious,most announcers are content to scream and yell when they think a "big" play has happened and then need to get the next promo by the network a.s.a.p. Curt Gowdy and Al Deragodis,where have you gone?

Surprisingly Troy Aikman was working the booth for this game. He's usually good, as is Moose Johnston and John Madden. I still wish that all-too-brief-taste of Jaws and Vermeil we got in the MNF booth on opening weekend would be replicated. :(

 

[djcolts]

Try to name 3 announcers or color-commentators who show "insight". Most color guys merely state the obvious,most announcers are content to scream and yell when they think a "big" play has happened and then need to get the next promo by the network a.s.a.p. Curt Gowdy and Al Deragodis,where have you gone?

Surprisingly Troy Aikman was working the booth for this game. He's usually good, as is Moose Johnston and John Madden. I still wish that all-too-brief-taste of Jaws and Vermeil we got in the MNF booth on opening weekend would be replicated. :(

Aikman used to be good, but probably some of FOX's "consultants" made some "suggestions" to him and probably wrecked what he used to be doing well.As for Jaws and Vermeil - maybe in some weird way we're better off with the one memory of a well-announced NFL game. If they were made permanent anaylsts to MNF next year, ESPN would find a way to ruin them, anyway.

 

[TommyGilmore]

How can you not know the rules? If you could punt on a kickoff, wouldn't you do it every single time???.

 

[Pip's Invitation]

Remember how bad the special teams play of the Ray Rhodes Eagles squads was?

Guess who was Ray's special teams coach? Danny Smith.

We Philly fans were clamoring for him to be fired, but Ray was too loyal. He bumped him over to defensive backs coach, which was a meaningless title because Ray coached the defensive backs himself.

Why this guy still has a job in the NFL, I have no idea. But I'm happy that he's working for a division rival.

 

[AB in DC]

How can you not know the rules? If you could punt on a kickoff, wouldn't you do it every single time???.

Why? Kickoffs tend to go 65-70 yards easily. I forget how far back a punter stands behind the LOS, but you rarely see a punter nail a 55-60 yard punt with any consistency.

 

[TeddyKGB]

How can you not know the rules? If you could punt on a kickoff, wouldn't you do it every single time???.

Why? Kickoffs tend to go 65-70 yards easily. I forget how far back a punter stands behind the LOS, but you rarely see a punter nail a 55-60 yard punt with any consistency.

Assuming they will get a clean kick with no rush, the advantage afforded the coverage team by the longer hang time should more than compensate for the lost yardage.

 

[John Mamula]

How can you not know the rules? If you could punt on a kickoff, wouldn't you do it every single time???.

Why? Kickoffs tend to go 65-70 yards easily. I forget how far back a punter stands behind the LOS, but you rarely see a punter nail a 55-60 yard punt with any consistency.

Assuming they will get a clean kick with no rush, the advantage afforded the coverage team by the longer hang time should more than compensate for the lost yardage.

 

[Das Boot]

Why did the refs tell him Frost he couldn't punt the ball?

Shouldn't they have waited to see if he indeed did punt it, then thrown a flag?

I didn't know refs would step in and prevent an apparently upcoming illegal play from proceeding.

 

[Rig24]

You would think that Gibbs, with as long as he has been in the game, would have caught on and stopped it. Maybe he was checking in on his crashcar team.

 

[code]

Our league discussed/debated this on our forum...one owner rewound the game on Tivo and noted that it sounded like the ref said "free kick" when in fact he certainly should have said "re-kick"...speculation was that the Skins heard this and proceded assuming the refs knew better...after the whistles start blowing (and the helmet penalty) the ref clearly directs "we'll kickoff"...

 

[apalmer]

Why did the refs tell him Frost he couldn't punt the ball?Shouldn't they have waited to see if he indeed did punt it, then thrown a flag?I didn't know refs would step in and prevent an apparently upcoming illegal play from proceeding.

Casual conversation:Ref: OK, go ahead and tee it up.Frost: I'm not using a tee. I'm punting it.Ref: You can't do that. You're not allowed to punt a kickoff.Frost: ###### ###, you ######### rule nazi! (rips off hlmet)Penalty.

 

[BigJim®]

Try to name 3 announcers or color-commentators who show "insight".

Since you asked, another PFT blurb that was blatant during the the Vikes telecast: After Minnesota running back Chester Taylor used patience and then raw speed for a 95-yard touchdown run in the third quarter, Ron Pitts said that it was "longest run of the year for Taylor and I gotta believe the longest of the year period for the Vikings."

 

[jwvdcw]

How can you not know the rules? If you could punt on a kickoff, wouldn't you do it every single time???.

Why? Kickoffs tend to go 65-70 yards easily. I forget how far back a punter stands behind the LOS, but you rarely see a punter nail a 55-60 yard punt with any consistency.

but those punts are not taking into account how far back from the line of scrimmage he is.

 

[TommyGilmore]

Our league discussed/debated this on our forum...one owner rewound the game on Tivo and noted that it sounded like the ref said "free kick" when in fact he certainly should have said "re-kick"

Actually, the official NFL rule defines a kickoff as "one type of free kick".In NFL jargon "free kick" just means "without being snapped".

 

[Jayrod]

How can you not know the rules? If you could punt on a kickoff, wouldn't you do it every single time???.

Why? Kickoffs tend to go 65-70 yards easily. I forget how far back a punter stands behind the LOS, but you rarely see a punter nail a 55-60 yard punt with any consistency.

but those punts are not taking into account how far back from the line of scrimmage he is.

That's why they always punt on a free kick. Punt yardage is recorded from the line of scrimmage. Most punters stand @ 12 yards begind the LOS. Add in the additional yardage for that and the extra hang time for the coverage team to get down the field and you would see teams punt instead of kickoff every time.

 

[Marvelous]

Why did the refs tell him Frost he couldn't punt the ball?Shouldn't they have waited to see if he indeed did punt it, then thrown a flag?I didn't know refs would step in and prevent an apparently upcoming illegal play from proceeding.

From my recollection, Frost actually punted the ball, but the whistle blew right before the play started. Frost actually got off a very good punt and was upset that it would not could. That is why he was arguing with the ref and then took off his helmet. As soon as it came off, he realized he did something wrong and shut up, but the flag came out anyhow.Once again, no explaination on why the whistle blew. No explaination on why whether there would have been a penalty if the Redskins had kicked it. I have no idea what they were blabbering about.

 

[redman]

Why did the refs tell him Frost he couldn't punt the ball?Shouldn't they have waited to see if he indeed did punt it, then thrown a flag?I didn't know refs would step in and prevent an apparently upcoming illegal play from proceeding.

From my recollection, Frost actually punted the ball, but the whistle blew right before the play started. Frost actually got off a very good punt and was upset that it would not could. That is why he was arguing with the ref and then took off his helmet. As soon as it came off, he realized he did something wrong and shut up, but the flag came out anyhow.Once again, no explaination on why the whistle blew. No explaination on why whether there would have been a penalty if the Redskins had kicked it. I have no idea what they were blabbering about.

It was bizarre all the way around. I've even wondered whether they sent Frost out to kick it off from the tee given that Novak's not known for great kickoffs, and he misunderstood and punted by mistake. The bottom line is that we have no explanation.

 

[bigfeet_88]

How can you not know the rules? If you could punt on a kickoff, wouldn't you do it every single time???.

Why? Kickoffs tend to go 65-70 yards easily. I forget how far back a punter stands behind the LOS, but you rarely see a punter nail a 55-60 yard punt with any consistency.

Assuming they will get a clean kick with no rush, the advantage afforded the coverage team by the longer hang time should more than compensate for the lost yardage.

Uhmmm, if you could punt on a kick off, the chances of an onside kick recovery would sky rocket. Just kick the ball straight up in the air slightly forward. Knowing exactly which side you would punt to would give a huge advantage to the kicking team. I would do this everytime.

 

[The Rook]

How can you not know the rules? If you could punt on a kickoff, wouldn't you do it every single time???.

Why? Kickoffs tend to go 65-70 yards easily. I forget how far back a punter stands behind the LOS, but you rarely see a punter nail a 55-60 yard punt with any consistency.

Assuming they will get a clean kick with no rush, the advantage afforded the coverage team by the longer hang time should more than compensate for the lost yardage.

Uhmmm, if you could punt on a kick off, the chances of an onside kick recovery would sky rocket. Just kick the ball straight up in the air slightly forward. Knowing exactly which side you would punt to would give a huge advantage to the kicking team. I would do this everytime.

Receiving team could just call for fair catch. What makes onside kick live is the fact it hits the ground as it comes off the tee.

 

[fornov]

I've always wondered why when a team wants to try an onside kick, they don't just try to drill it at a front line guy and recover the rebound. Obviously, you'd need some good accuracy on the line drive, but it would be something to try in the first half as a "didn't see it coming" sort of play. Even if you miss the guy, the line drive would catch the receiving team off guard and leave them without much of a return.

 

[fatness]

Frost actually got off a very good punt and was upset that it would not could.

This reminds me of "Green Eggs and Ham".

 

[redman]

Frost actually got off a very good punt and was upset that it would not could.

This reminds me of "Green Eggs and Ham".

 

[dawgtrails]

I've always wondered why when a team wants to try an onside kick, they don't just try to drill it at a front line guy and recover the rebound. Obviously, you'd need some good accuracy on the line drive, but it would be something to try in the first half as a "didn't see it coming" sort of play. Even if you miss the guy, the line drive would catch the receiving team off guard and leave them without much of a return.

Well, they wouldnt need much of a return because your kicker only kicked the ball to the 50 yard line.To try and drill one of the guys who is 12-15 yards away is, well, unlikely to happen

 

[AB in DC]

How can you not know the rules? If you could punt on a kickoff, wouldn't you do it every single time???.

Why? Kickoffs tend to go 65-70 yards easily. I forget how far back a punter stands behind the LOS, but you rarely see a punter nail a 55-60 yard punt with any consistency.

but those punts are not taking into account how far back from the line of scrimmage he is.

Umm, reading comprehension down? I specifically deducted 10 yards from the average kickoff distance to compare it with punting distance.

That's why they always punt on a free kick.

No, they always punt on a free kick because they're not allowed to use a tee. If it's kickoff w/o tee vs punt, punt is obviously better

If it's kickoff w/tee vs punt, I don't think so.

 

[TommyGilmore]

Wow, even ESPN seems to be clueless:

For the first time this season, Randle El produced an electrifying punt return -- 87 yards, all the way into the end zone to give the Redskins a 14-10 lead. But then he leaped into the goal post, which is not on the NFL's list of approved celebration props. That cost Washington 15 yards on the ensuing kickoff. And then Sean Taylor was called for an offside penalty, which moved the Redskins back to their 10-yard line. Thus, punter Derrick Frost was brought on for the free kick. But he kicked before the whistle and the play was ruled dead. Frost ripped off his helmet and screamed at the officials, costing the Redskins a 15-yard unsportsmanlike penalty. Frost eventually kicked from his 5-yard line.

 

[protoslacker]

Wow, even ESPN seems to be clueless:

For the first time this season, Randle El produced an electrifying punt return -- 87 yards, all the way into the end zone to give the Redskins a 14-10 lead. But then he leaped into the goal post, which is not on the NFL's list of approved celebration props. That cost Washington 15 yards on the ensuing kickoff. And then Sean Taylor was called for an offside penalty, which moved the Redskins back to their 10-yard line. Thus, punter Derrick Frost was brought on for the free kick. But he kicked before the whistle and the play was ruled dead. Frost ripped off his helmet and screamed at the officials, costing the Redskins a 15-yard unsportsmanlike penalty. Frost eventually kicked from his 5-yard line.

That's what I thought I saw on the play. I don't know bout that other stuff.....or...The kicker threw a tantrum and took his helmet off and then the punter came in I think. Man.. I'm confused again.