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Bloom's Draft Grades - NFC North (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Sigmund Bloom
- Start date
huskers15
Footballguy
No vikings data showing.
sorry bout that, fixed
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
When EJ got hurt last year, they had to get Napoleon Harris off the scrap heap to take his place. I think Brinkley is an upgrade to the #2 spot at least. Also, they lost some key components in their special teams squad and I think Brinkley could be a standout there.They needed some LB depth as Harris, Vinny Ciurciu, and Dontarrious Thomas will all likely be gone.Brinkley was a guy that I thought might have a chance to make some noise in the next year or two as a 3-4 ILB. It's too bad he got hurt because he was really coming into his own.
Chicago Hooligan
Footballguy
I guess they should've drafted someone who's at his best when double-teamed.
JFT Ben
Footballguy
Also, if you look at what went around what would have been the Packers' third round picks (or before their 4th round pick) it was not like they were giving up that much. There was a major run on CBs and WRs (I counted 16), with only a few OTs or OGs taken. Now it could be argued a CB could have been useful, it was far from a necessity. In fact, only two OLBs (Levy and McKenzie) and one ILB (Maiava) were taken, and the DTs and DEs were marginal 3-4 prospects. Not a big loss giving up the thirds as the draft fell GB's way. Plus, I'd say Matthews (seems to be the biggest issue) has much more upside than Barwin, and I'd say a power fullback in the mold of Lorenzo Neal or Will Henderson will significantly help their running game.
Chicago Hooligan
Footballguy
vikings.com seems not to have updated their depth chart recently, but I don't think they did anything in the secondary to reduce the amount of big plays they gave up last year. Harvin will be a returner and gadget player as a rookie. The QBs wouldn't start for most teams. Improvements to the putrid kick coverage teams are coming from undrafted guys or free agents?
I mean... they won 10 games last year, but if you're talking about competing for a championship, that's another 4 or 5 wins. Does anyone think this draft improved them to that extent? Even close?
I mean... they won 10 games last year, but if you're talking about competing for a championship, that's another 4 or 5 wins. Does anyone think this draft improved them to that extent? Even close?
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puckalicious
Footballguy
Lions with an A???
Worst D in NFL history (I think, at least 2nd worse) and they spent 6 out of 10 picks on offense, with both 1st rounders on offense. Maybe its just me, but it seems like most winning NFL teams spend their high picks on defense and OL before they do so on skill positions.
Sure they seemed to get good value in the draft, but maybe at some point they need to bias the picks toward actually building the team into a winner. They are the shining example of how "building" a team with offense does not work.
I don't have the data, but I would be shocked if you added up the salary they spend on offense vs. defense and didn't find it was 4:1 biased to the offense.
Worst D in NFL history (I think, at least 2nd worse) and they spent 6 out of 10 picks on offense, with both 1st rounders on offense. Maybe its just me, but it seems like most winning NFL teams spend their high picks on defense and OL before they do so on skill positions.
Sure they seemed to get good value in the draft, but maybe at some point they need to bias the picks toward actually building the team into a winner. They are the shining example of how "building" a team with offense does not work.
I don't have the data, but I would be shocked if you added up the salary they spend on offense vs. defense and didn't find it was 4:1 biased to the offense.
GregR_2
Footballguy
Disagreed strongly with the Lions draft. Granted, I think I'm less enthused with Stafford than you are Bloom.
But I felt they should have gotten a tackle with at least one of the top 2 picks. 1 tackle alone allows them to move Backus inside which would likely shore up 2 spots on the O-line for a single pick. It's a waste they didn't do that when they could have had their choice of tackles, or gotten Oher at 20. Depending on thoughts on Cherilus I might have even taken two tackles, even, though I can see the argument for a tackle #1 and then the TE at 20.
I think several different options would have been much better than what they did. Granted, they got some decent players and probably got more decent players than most teams so probably deserve a favorable grade. But then again with the picks they had they should have done that by default.
But I felt they should have gotten a tackle with at least one of the top 2 picks. 1 tackle alone allows them to move Backus inside which would likely shore up 2 spots on the O-line for a single pick. It's a waste they didn't do that when they could have had their choice of tackles, or gotten Oher at 20. Depending on thoughts on Cherilus I might have even taken two tackles, even, though I can see the argument for a tackle #1 and then the TE at 20.
I think several different options would have been much better than what they did. Granted, they got some decent players and probably got more decent players than most teams so probably deserve a favorable grade. But then again with the picks they had they should have done that by default.
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I don't disagree with you Greg, which anyone who has listened to my show, read my stuff or hung around me after a beer or two can tell you. Build the line first.That said, I think they had a draft plan which they executed perfectly.The big question is whether they had the right plan.They got great value with many picks and as they had so many needs, of course they filled a ton of them. But how effectively I don't know. I mean, Pettigrew can block and will - but why not get offensive linemen to do that? Why draft a TE to protect the QB? ps - great read Bloom as these all are.
PatsWillWin
Footballguy
What was that comment about NE and Harvin all about?
GregR_2
Footballguy
Max Power
Footballguy
Pretty nice write up. I always love the praise for Chicago's picks.
Not sure I agree with you on this. I got to attend several Western Mich games and I thought Delmas was good for the MAC level, but I'm just not sure his game will translate to the NFL. He struggled in coverage vs MAC WRs and TEs, and I don't see his success playing close to the line continuing in the NFL.Seeing his name mentioned in the same sentance as Bob Sanders had a big ole "whoa" coming out of me.Detroit made a huge mistake not drafting Maualuga
mikel0254
Footballguy
I agree that they should have gotten an OL with the 20th pick, but if you're going to invest that much in Stafford, you better get him some weapons. This way he'll block on run plays, and catch on passing downs...it actually makes more and more sense to me the more I think about it (and I almost threw my remote through the TV when they picked him over Oher). I thought with the second pick they should go OL and MLB with the 2.01 pick, but I think getting the best talent at those picks instead of picking solely on immediate need could work out in the long run.
lyon812
Footballguy
I agree. I'm a huge Pettigrew fan--more than most, it seems at times--but even I thought it was pretty ridiculous to not go OL at 20. If you're going to make an investment, you need to protect your investment.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Stafford at 1 was pretty much a no brainer.Passing on Oher and Jerry for Pettigrew is a mistake. If they liked their blocking unit enough to pass on Oher then they could just as easily pass on Pettigrew also and help their defense. I don't think they are exactly settled on the Oline as all that. Pettigrew will help the running game however and protect weaknesses of the tackles at times.
Donnybrook
Footballguy
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I love how wrong that was.
Anthony Borbely
Footballguy
In general, I agree with this. I thought they should have definitely addressed the offensive line early in the draft, but in their defense, they may not have had Oher highly ranked and there was no other offensive lineman worth taking that high. While I wanted some linemen early, Pettigrew and Delmas were solid picks.
bcr8f
Footballguy
Pettigrew is a little like a blocking lineman that can also catch.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Pettigrew may mainly be for the running game. It might be a strategic pick to deal with Green Bay and many other teams changing to a 3-4 Defense. I am not sure how well he will match up against Jared Allen but maybe he does a better job than their tackles did last year.
bcr8f
Footballguy
You could be right.He manhandled Orakpo, but we'll see.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
It seems the grade for the Packers is based largely on Bloom's view of the Packers' needs rather than the quality of their picks. I don't think Bloom or anyone else outside the organization fully understands how they expect to line up on defense, but it is clear that they will feature multiple fronts, with a lot of 4 man fronts in the mix. Raji stated yesterday that he has been informed he will be used at 5 technique as well as DT in a 4-3 and will line up at NT and DE in the 3-4. As for Quinn Johnson being the team's "worst pick" - obviously a matter of pure opinion. Johnson was my favorite pick they made all weekend. Here is what McGinn's scout contacts said about Johnson before the draft:
The Pack showing a lot of looks and not letting Raji get hung up in too many double team will help a lot. I like Johnson as a player just fine, once again my issue is more philosophical than anything else, blocking fullbacks are an endangered species and they can be found as street free agents pretty easily.
bcr8f
Footballguy
On goals as Packers: (from Raji and Clay Matthews)
BR: "I was talking with a d-line coach today and we were talking about where I would be playing. I'd be playing some nose tackle, some defensive end. As far as goals, the big thing for me is getting a grasp of the defense and understanding what the defense asks you to do. I'll try to do that. And if I'm ready opening day to start, obviously I would love to have that opportunity. But if I'm not, I'm willing to do whatever I need to do as far as getting this team ready to win some games."
CM: "My expectations are just to come in here and give it all that I've got, really. If that's enough to come out on day one and be a starter, so be it, I'm looking forward to that opportunity. I'm going to come out here and compete and I'm going to give everything I've got. If I can get on the field early and often, I'd love that."
On Raji playing defensive end:
BR: "Honestly, it was a bit of a surprise. I played some five technique (DE) in our defense in college. I stressed that to the Packers when we had a little meeting at the combine. I talked to the coach there. He doesn't want me to be deemed as just a nose tackle. He wants me to play some nose and some defensive end. Actually this week at mini-camp we'll be doing a little bit of that."
On Matthews playing the similar Elephant position in the USC defense:
CM: "I think it's real similar. At SC we ran a 4-3 however it had the principles of a 3-4 being that I was playing a stand-up defensive end or elephant. I was able to rush the passer a little bit more, drop into coverage -- just provide a little versatility to the game. And I think now that I'm in a true 3-4 system, now I can just use the skills I learned at SC and continue to develop them."
How important is it for you guys to come in and contribute right away given the positions you guys play:
BR: "I believe that attitude is altitude. And knowing Clay, I know that he has a workmans mentality as well as myself. The fact that we were both first-rounders doesn't change who we are as people. Nothing is going to change about us, not our approach to the game, not our work ethic. So I feel it's great for us to be in this position, to be first-round draft picks, but at the end of the day we know we have to work and earn our keep, so to speak."
CM: "There's definitely added pressure from being a first-rounder and the expectations you have. But I think it's nothing that we haven't experience in our college career. And like B.J. said earlier, we had to work for everything. The pressure that we put on ourselves is more than anything anybody else puts on us. I think that's the pressure to be successful and be the best and I think that's what we're going to come in here and do, just play to our ability."
From Cheesehead TV
Rookies To Speakpackeraaron in B.J. Raji, Clay Matthews
…and say nothing.
Both B.J. Raji and Clay Matthews are set to speak to the media in Green Bay at 6pm edt this afternoon. I look forward to a whole lot of “I’m just happy to be a Packer” etc etc. You know what would be great? I mean really, really great? If one of these kids said “Jay Cutler is a wanted man. I’m going to kill him on opening night. (looks into the camera) You hear my talkin’ Jay? I’m coming for you! I’m goin’ Bear huntin’ baby! The Bears Still Suck!”
But no. (sigh)
BR: "I was talking with a d-line coach today and we were talking about where I would be playing. I'd be playing some nose tackle, some defensive end. As far as goals, the big thing for me is getting a grasp of the defense and understanding what the defense asks you to do. I'll try to do that. And if I'm ready opening day to start, obviously I would love to have that opportunity. But if I'm not, I'm willing to do whatever I need to do as far as getting this team ready to win some games."
CM: "My expectations are just to come in here and give it all that I've got, really. If that's enough to come out on day one and be a starter, so be it, I'm looking forward to that opportunity. I'm going to come out here and compete and I'm going to give everything I've got. If I can get on the field early and often, I'd love that."
On Raji playing defensive end:
BR: "Honestly, it was a bit of a surprise. I played some five technique (DE) in our defense in college. I stressed that to the Packers when we had a little meeting at the combine. I talked to the coach there. He doesn't want me to be deemed as just a nose tackle. He wants me to play some nose and some defensive end. Actually this week at mini-camp we'll be doing a little bit of that."
On Matthews playing the similar Elephant position in the USC defense:
CM: "I think it's real similar. At SC we ran a 4-3 however it had the principles of a 3-4 being that I was playing a stand-up defensive end or elephant. I was able to rush the passer a little bit more, drop into coverage -- just provide a little versatility to the game. And I think now that I'm in a true 3-4 system, now I can just use the skills I learned at SC and continue to develop them."
How important is it for you guys to come in and contribute right away given the positions you guys play:
BR: "I believe that attitude is altitude. And knowing Clay, I know that he has a workmans mentality as well as myself. The fact that we were both first-rounders doesn't change who we are as people. Nothing is going to change about us, not our approach to the game, not our work ethic. So I feel it's great for us to be in this position, to be first-round draft picks, but at the end of the day we know we have to work and earn our keep, so to speak."
CM: "There's definitely added pressure from being a first-rounder and the expectations you have. But I think it's nothing that we haven't experience in our college career. And like B.J. said earlier, we had to work for everything. The pressure that we put on ourselves is more than anything anybody else puts on us. I think that's the pressure to be successful and be the best and I think that's what we're going to come in here and do, just play to our ability."
From Cheesehead TV
Rookies To Speakpackeraaron in B.J. Raji, Clay Matthews
…and say nothing.
Both B.J. Raji and Clay Matthews are set to speak to the media in Green Bay at 6pm edt this afternoon. I look forward to a whole lot of “I’m just happy to be a Packer” etc etc. You know what would be great? I mean really, really great? If one of these kids said “Jay Cutler is a wanted man. I’m going to kill him on opening night. (looks into the camera) You hear my talkin’ Jay? I’m coming for you! I’m goin’ Bear huntin’ baby! The Bears Still Suck!”
But no. (sigh)
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scrumptrulescent
Footballguy
The Lions an A and the Packers a C+? 
That was an entertaining read.....and the opinion of a draftnik who may or may not see players as anything more than set values on a chart.
When the Packers take Raji there's is skepticism about how he fits in the 3/4 and if he can handle double teams. In the AFC East thread, the New England draft gets Raji's fat counterpart Brace who, according to Bloom, "is one of the best pure NT's" even though NE is also a 3/4 team. Brace gets praise going into a 3/4 while Raji gets critiqued and criticized. Biases noted
Every Lions fan I know (live in Michigan) did not like this draft. Yet all of them did like the Packers draft. You know why? They've been begging for years for the Lions to draft from the ball out, but instead their team goes after a QB first, a good blocking TE 2nd, and a plucky undersized safety 3rd. All in the first 33 picks. "Pettigrew is like having a 3rd OT on the field"......in the Lions case, it'll make it more like 1 1/2. Pettigrew will need to stay in and block every play since he'll be helping Backus.
I totally disagree with your grades, but thanks for the read.
That was an entertaining read.....and the opinion of a draftnik who may or may not see players as anything more than set values on a chart.
When the Packers take Raji there's is skepticism about how he fits in the 3/4 and if he can handle double teams. In the AFC East thread, the New England draft gets Raji's fat counterpart Brace who, according to Bloom, "is one of the best pure NT's" even though NE is also a 3/4 team. Brace gets praise going into a 3/4 while Raji gets critiqued and criticized. Biases noted
Every Lions fan I know (live in Michigan) did not like this draft. Yet all of them did like the Packers draft. You know why? They've been begging for years for the Lions to draft from the ball out, but instead their team goes after a QB first, a good blocking TE 2nd, and a plucky undersized safety 3rd. All in the first 33 picks. "Pettigrew is like having a 3rd OT on the field"......in the Lions case, it'll make it more like 1 1/2. Pettigrew will need to stay in and block every play since he'll be helping Backus.
I totally disagree with your grades, but thanks for the read.
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for the Detroit dialog:
how strongly do you think Stafford starts in the first two thirds of the season?
recently I have tried to change the framing (in my mind) of the NFL that instead of building for a season, trying building for a window of opportunity over multiple years.. I have done no research BUT, looking at the detroit personnel you would have to think to make waves in the league, they are 2 to 4 years out..
many on the current roster will be gone by then.. Do we know what OL talent will be available over the next 2 years to fortify that window of competing in the NFL?
if they field Cpep for most of 09, and let him get killed behind that line, they have a chance to groom stafford, and can acquire a solid line over the next few years?
how strongly do you think Stafford starts in the first two thirds of the season?
recently I have tried to change the framing (in my mind) of the NFL that instead of building for a season, trying building for a window of opportunity over multiple years.. I have done no research BUT, looking at the detroit personnel you would have to think to make waves in the league, they are 2 to 4 years out..
many on the current roster will be gone by then.. Do we know what OL talent will be available over the next 2 years to fortify that window of competing in the NFL?
if they field Cpep for most of 09, and let him get killed behind that line, they have a chance to groom stafford, and can acquire a solid line over the next few years?
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
I can't speak for Bloom, but my understanding of his point is that, if a team is only going to use Raji as a 3-4 NT, it could just as well have waited and taken Brace or Jerry or another 330 lb. slab. Raji has been compared to Sapp, and we all know that his talent was only really effective when he played 3 tech. in a 4-3. But those who have followed the team in the offseason know that the Packer defensive coaches have claimed that the emphasis of their defense will be adaptability, multiple different fronts and looks. If I read it correctly, they will be essentially the polar opposite of a Sanders defense.scrumptrulescent said:When the Packers take Raji there's is skepticism about how he fits in the 3/4 and if he can handle double teams. In the AFC East thread, the New England draft gets Raji's fat counterpart Brace who, according to Bloom, "is one of the best pure NT's" even though NE is also a 3/4 team. Brace gets praise going into a 3/4 while Raji gets critiqued and criticized. Biases noted
Anthony Borbely
Footballguy
If they are going to start Stafford (and that is a big if), I would bet the ranch it happens after their week 7 bye. There are a lot of variables, so it's hard to say. I think it's 50-50 he starts after the bye.noneother said:
ScottyFargo
Footballguy
The excuse given here should be a familiar one to Packer fans; it's the one they gave all last year re: their poor D. Players are coming back from time impactful injuries last year. CB Madaieu Williams was injured for half the year before stepping onto the field, and though one person can't make the impact of a whole coverage unit on ST Heath Farwell missed last year with a torn ACL. He's a demon for special team tackles, so that's a great guy to get back. There are a lot of people who were critical of Kluwe's punting style, so if in fact a major part of the problem has been identified as his giving too much hang time so defenders could set up proper blocks, that can be coached up.As far as what the draft got the Vikes... Harvin is explosive and the "risk factor" of drafting him is being way overblown. He's on strike 1 of 3 before he faces missed time, and after a certain period of clean time he'll go back down to zero strikes. Just like other risky guy from last year, Jared Allen. Loadholt is going to be absolutely brutal for opening holes on the right side. Many reports are painting Asher Allen as heir apparent to Winfield as a great hitting corner. We got LB depth in the fifth round, which was an exposed weakness after E.J. Henderson went down last year as reported here. Sage is gonna be a Pro-Bowl QB this year, and it's going to be awesome. Adrian Peterson is going to have an amazing year, Harvin ROY. I've already laid all my bets with Vegas.
CanadianNFLJunkie
Footballguy
Why? Why, why, why, why, WHY, WHY??? Why must be grade these teams and all the other team's draft NOW?????
It makes NO SENSE.
You want an easy way of doing this, no science involved? If a team has 2 picks in first round they get at least a B+. If a team has no first rounder then they get no better than a C+
Go back to the 2005 draft today and grade those drafts.
It makes NO SENSE.
You want an easy way of doing this, no science involved? If a team has 2 picks in first round they get at least a B+. If a team has no first rounder then they get no better than a C+
Go back to the 2005 draft today and grade those drafts.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
"Because it's fun" down?Is it really necessary to preface all this with "based on what we know now"? I mean really, we all know that these grades will change three years from now. We don't need a heavy dose of sanctimoniousness to tell us that.These are called "opinions" and are worth talking about.Why? Why, why, why, why, WHY, WHY??? Why must be grade these teams and all the other team's draft NOW?????It makes NO SENSE. You want an easy way of doing this, no science involved? If a team has 2 picks in first round they get at least a B+. If a team has no first rounder then they get no better than a C+Go back to the 2005 draft today and grade those drafts.
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wraith5
Footballguy
Somebody's Strathcona boots are on too tight...Why? Why, why, why, why, WHY, WHY??? Why must be grade these teams and all the other team's draft NOW?????It makes NO SENSE. You want an easy way of doing this, no science involved? If a team has 2 picks in first round they get at least a B+. If a team has no first rounder then they get no better than a C+Go back to the 2005 draft today and grade those drafts.
Because much like in fantasy football, projecting and guessing about players future success is why most of us are here.Why? Why, why, why, why, WHY, WHY??? Why must be grade these teams and all the other team's draft NOW?????It makes NO SENSE. You want an easy way of doing this, no science involved? If a team has 2 picks in first round they get at least a B+. If a team has no first rounder then they get no better than a C+Go back to the 2005 draft today and grade those drafts.
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
This challenged my beliefs.
Dexter Manley
Footballguy
I don't understand the people bashing the Lions' draft. They were 0-16 last year, the worst team in nfl history. They have holes EVERYWHERE. They draft the #1 qb, #1 te (who was a top 10 overall player on some teams' boards), and the #1 safety (who's underrated imo and should of been a 1st round pick). Each one was the best player available at the time.
Criticism of this strategy does not compute. Why shouldn't have they taken the best player available at those spots?
Criticism of this strategy does not compute. Why shouldn't have they taken the best player available at those spots?
