Bojang's Pre-draft Tiers (1 Viewer)

[Bojang0301]

I'll save the commentary for the thread discussion (if there is any). This has gone through a great many iterations so far, so I would have to say this is far from final and situation will weigh in heavily after the draft. That being said, this is where I view the talent profiles for potential fantasy production. It would be a lie to say I don't watch film but I have no functional understanding of nuance in schemes or routes so my rankings are weighted more towards production, athletic profile and some other miscellaneous factors I put in based on position I'd also like to give a shout out to a few board dwellers who do ultimately influence who I look at and some of how I view them: @ZWK with his own rankings and @Biabreakable with his extensive commentary.

QB's
Tier 1: Baker Mayfield
Tier 2: Lamar Jackson
Tier 3: Sam Darnold, Josh Rosen
Tier 4: Josh Allen, Mason Rudolph, Kyle Lauletta
Tier 5: Logan Woodside, Mike White

RB's
Tier G: Saquon Barkley
Tier 1: Derrius Guice, Rashaad Penny, Nick Chubb
Tier 2: Sony Michel, Royce Freeman
Tier 3: John Kelly, Kerryon Johnson, Ronald Jones
Tier 4: Ryan Nall, Chase Edmunds, Nyheim Hines, Bo Scarbrogh, Kalen Ballage, Ito Smith
Tier 5: Josh Adams, Justin Jackson, Boston Scott, Mark Walton, Phillip Lindsay, Jordan Wilkins
Tier 6: Chris Warren, Jarvion Franklin, Dontrell Hilliard, Trenton Cannon, Akrum Wadley
Watchlist: Roc Thomas, Diocemy Saint Juste, Justin Stockton, Larry Rose, Ryan Green, David Williams, Ralph Webb

WR's
Tier 1: DJ Moore, Courtland Sutton, James Washington
Tier 2: Tre'Quan Smith, Equanimeous St. Brown, Michael Gallup, Calvin Ridley, Christian Kirk, Anthony Miller
Tier 3: Daurice Fountain, Justin Watson, Allen Lazard, Cedrick Wilson, DJ Chark, J'Mon Moore
Tier 4: Daesean Hamilton, Antonio Callaway, Korey Robertson, Dante Pettis, Trey Quinn
Tier 5: Jester Weah, Deon Cain, Richie James, Keke Coutee, Jordan Lasley, Simmie Cobbs
Tier 6: Dylan Cantrell, Javon Wims, Byron Pringle, Keith Kirkwood
Watchlist: Steve Ishmael, Marcell Ateman, Auden Tate, Deontay Burnett, Darren Carrington, Jeff Badet, Cameron Batson, Derrick Willies, 
Marquez Valdez-Scantling, Jaleel Scott

TE's
Tier 1: Dallas Goedert, Mike Gesicki
Tier 2: Mark Andrews, Hayden Hurst, Jaylen Samuels
Tier 3: Ian Thomas, Tyler Conklin
Tier 4: Andrew Vollert, Damon Gibson, Troy Fumagali
Watchlist: Jordan Akins, Chris Herndon, Dalton Schultz, Marcus Baugh, Garrett Hudson

My guys: Baker Mayfield, Logan Woodside, Rashaad Penny, Ryan Nall, Daurice Fountain, Justin Watson, Korey Robertson, and Dallas Goedert

Guys I'm down on: Josh Allen, Ronald Jones, Calvin Ridley, Marcell Ateman, Auden Tate, Hayden Hurst

 

[identikit]

Nice work!

 

[battlestar]

Great effort.  Appreciate it and the commentary it will drive.

Thanks!

 

[barackdhouse]

Quite a list. Thanks for posting. I'm with you on Mayfield #1. I need to do my WR homework. Been heavily focused on RB. The draft will bring *some* clarity.

 

[Bojang0301]

WR is deep. A few commentators have been correct in saying that the problem is that none of these guys is a Calvin, Julio, AJ Green type. I really like this class though as, I think, opposed to a lot of others. Fantasy teams are going to get some awesome project types late. I’ll probably be going RB heavy in most of my drafts but there does come a point when the value is too much to pass up.

 

[Biabreakable]

Nice list. I suppose I can't put off finishing mine much longer.

I agree with most of what you have laid out here at least for the players I have actually seen. You list quite a few players who are just names to me now. I am kind of in the same boat as barackdhouse in that I have been focused on learning about the RB and haven't had much time to for the WR yet. There are still RB who I haven't watched as much as I would like to as well.

Would you take John Kelly over Ronald Jones? Or does the order you list guys in the same tier not really matter?

 

[Bojang0301]

Nice list. I suppose I can't put off finishing mine much longer.

I agree with most of what you have laid out here at least for the players I have actually seen. You list quite a few players who are just names to me now. I am kind of in the same boat as barackdhouse in that I have been focused on learning about the RB and haven't had much time to for the WR yet. There are still RB who I haven't watched as much as I would like to as well.

Would you take John Kelly over Ronald Jones? Or does the order you list guys in the same tier not really matter?

John Kelly right now. I have concerns over Jones running between the tackles. I had Kelly much higher early on but his athletic profile really has me concerned. Graham Barfield’s yards created metric is sort of setting the tone for that tier. Jones made his bones off tackle and since I see him as someone who would have to develop into a pass catcher on top of that I fear he may end up as a commitee guy to start his career. I think that tier is going to be heavily influenced by situation for me.

 

[BigTex]

Like your list but there’s no way I’d take Kelly over Jones in any format. I get that you are down on him but Jones might be draft in rounds 1 or 2, Kelly if he’s lucky will go in rounds 4 or 5.

Thanks again for the list,

Tex

 

[Bojang0301]

I doubt I’ll have much say in a choice between the two because you are probably right that his draft capital will dictate that he go much higher than where I have him now. I can’t think of too many hypothetical situations where I like him more than Kelly with all things being equal (meaning, if I placed them both in the same situation). Once hypothetical’s are washed away though the picture should get clearer. If Kelly is on Dallas behind Zeke and RoJo goes to a Washington, Detroit, Seattle then it changes and Kelly would even fall a tier I would believe. I’ll be updating this a few days after the draft and I’m anticipating it being quite different. If players like Lasley or Callaway go underdrafted they’ll probably fall off my board. The small school guys with nice profiles at RB may face the same consequence.  There just is not enough opportunity or roster space in the league. 

 

[Zyphros]

I had Kelly right there with RoJo for the first little while in my rankings too.  The problem for me was even though RoJo didn't test very well, Kelly was absolutely abysmal. 

Love the list for the most part and recognize most of the names.  2 disagreements however with 1 being somewhat of a question.  1.  Lamar Jackson I think is the epitome of you either believe or you don't.  I don't.  But I can't fault someone who does.  2.  Nyheim Hines just doesn't seem to fit in with those other RB's in that tier.  Could you explain that group a little bit?  I assume it's mostly role players in some capacity which I agree, but Hines has a chance to be more than that to me.  

 

[JohnnyU]

Nice job.  I would take Michel over Penny and Chubb.

 

[Biabreakable]

John Kelly right now. I have concerns over Jones running between the tackles. I had Kelly much higher early on but his athletic profile really has me concerned. Graham Barfield’s yards created metric is sort of setting the tone for that tier. Jones made his bones off tackle and since I see him as someone who would have to develop into a pass catcher on top of that I fear he may end up as a commitee guy to start his career. I think that tier is going to be heavily influenced by situation for me.

I don't know how much development Jones will need as a receiver. He doesn't get used as one frequently enough to evaluate it, but when he does get the opportunity he seems to execute fine. 

 

[Bojang0301]

I had Kelly right there with RoJo for the first little while in my rankings too.  The problem for me was even though RoJo didn't test very well, Kelly was absolutely abysmal. 

Love the list for the most part and recognize most of the names.  2 disagreements however with 1 being somewhat of a question.  1.  Lamar Jackson I think is the epitome of you either believe or you don't.  I don't.  But I can't fault someone who does.  2.  Nyheim Hines just doesn't seem to fit in with those other RB's in that tier.  Could you explain that group a little bit?  I assume it's mostly role players in some capacity which I agree, but Hines has a chance to be more than that to me.  

So, I broke up that tier at first and then pieced it back together. When I broke it up I had taken Hines and Edmunds out of it due to their respective size and knowing they’ll most likely never be a lead back. After I reviewed it, it was clear there is more predictors for Hines and Edmunds being successes in the NFL than Josh Adams. It isn’t a slight on Hines. I think he could easily mimic Chris Thompson but he sort of tops out as a boom/bust #2/3 RB that will need a smart coaching staff that actually uses players like him. Otherwise he’ll sort of end up like Cohen last season. All those guys I would consider as role players with plus potential. 

 

[Bojang0301]

I don't know how much development Jones will need as a receiver. He doesn't get used as one frequently enough to evaluate it, but when he does get the opportunity he seems to execute fine. 

Do you think it was just Darnold ignoring him? There were definitely moments where he caught the ball and made plays (Texas game comes to mind) but also a whole lot of Darnold seeing him wide open and deciding to throw it downfield instead. Maybe it’s giving me the illusion of lack of pass catching ability.

 

[barackdhouse]

Do you think it was just Darnold ignoring him? There were definitely moments where he caught the ball and made plays (Texas game comes to mind) but also a whole lot of Darnold seeing him wide open and deciding to throw it downfield instead. Maybe it’s giving me the illusion of lack of pass catching ability.

There are lots of QBs that don't like checking down. I don't know if it applies here or not. I haven't watched either player that much. But some QBs can't seem to take what the defense gives them and are always looking for home run shots. 

 

[Biabreakable]

Do you think it was just Darnold ignoring him? There were definitely moments where he caught the ball and made plays (Texas game comes to mind) but also a whole lot of Darnold seeing him wide open and deciding to throw it downfield instead. Maybe it’s giving me the illusion of lack of pass catching ability.

You bring up a good point about why wasn't he used as a receiver more that I think is worth looking in to.

 

[BigTex]

Jones was the highest rated running back in the entire nation last year. He avg 3.5 yards after contact gained 743 yards after the first hit and broke 50 tackles on 212 carries. Against Power 5 schools he was tied 5th with 18 rushes over 15 yards. I’ve seen several full length games.....many will regret passing on him.

Tex

 

[barackdhouse]

You bring up a good point about why wasn't he used as a receiver more that I think is worth looking in to.

So did Darnold dump it off to other RBs? Were RB screens, flares or otherwise scripted plays used much? Regardless of which RB? 

 

[BigTex]

You bring up a good point about why wasn't he used as a receiver more that I think is worth looking in to.

I wouldn’t get too caught up into that, Darnold just wasn’t as good as he’s being pumped up to be.

Tex

 

[BigTex]

Pass blocking Jones rated 93.8 right there with Barkley 92.8 so he can protect his QB which everyone on this board would agree that’s highly important for a rookie running back.

His fumble rate is elite at 207.7 and so is Barkley at 193.3 with Elite being 150 or higher.

So he can protect the QB, protect the ball and he’s the highest rated runner in the nation in 2017. Sounds like a 1st round back......don’t over think this one Gentlemen, don’t over think this one.

Tex

 

[Bojang0301]

Jones was the highest rated running back in the entire nation last year. He avg 3.5 yards after contact gained 743 yards after the first hit and broke 50 tackles on 212 carries. Against Power 5 schools he was tied 5th with 18 rushes over 15 yards. I’ve seen several full length games.....many will regret passing on him.

Tex

Here is Graham Barfield’s work I alluded to earlier. 

On top of that when playing the power 5 outside of the PAC he managed a career stat line of 99 397 4.0.

I’ve watched several of his games and I see him having some nice runs off tackle and getting eaten alive between the tackles. It was further reflected in a breakdown of Graham’s yards created stat: 

“Ronald Jones' Yards Created Percentile Scores (based on data from 2016-18 classes):

YC/Att - Inside: 6th
YC/Att - Outside: 71st
YC/Att - Shotgun: 7th
Missed Tackles/Att: 33rd
Yds Gained per Route: 7th

Strong off-tackle runner; red flags everywhere else.”

So, respectfully, I disagree with your assessment to just forget about his flaws, they are many and his strength is something that NFL defenses defend considerably better than the NCAA.

 

[Biabreakable]

Pass blocking Jones rated 93.8 right there with Barkley 92.8 so he can protect his QB which everyone on this board would agree that’s highly important for a rookie running back.

His fumble rate is elite at 207.7 and so is Barkley at 193.3 with Elite being 150 or higher.

So he can protect the QB, protect the ball and he’s the highest rated runner in the nation in 2017. Sounds like a 1st round back......don’t over think this one Gentlemen, don’t over think this one.

Tex

Jones reminds me of Melvin Gordon and there were questions about him as a receiver as well.

 

[BigTex]

Here is Graham Barfield’s work I alluded to earlier. 

On top of that when playing the power 5 outside of the PAC he managed a career stat line of 99 397 4.0.

I’ve watched several of his games and I see him having some nice runs off tackle and getting eaten alive between the tackles. It was further reflected in a breakdown of Graham’s yards created stat: 

“Ronald Jones' Yards Created Percentile Scores (based on data from 2016-18 classes):

YC/Att - Inside: 6th
YC/Att - Outside: 71st
YC/Att - Shotgun: 7th
Missed Tackles/Att: 33rd
Yds Gained per Route: 7th

Strong off-tackle runner; red flags everywhere else.”

So, respectfully, I disagree with your assessment to just forget about his flaws, they are many and his strength is something that NFL defenses defend considerably better than the NCAA.

I didn’t say forget about his flaws. Every single back in this class has them but in the areas that it truly matters.....it’s either being ignored or forgotten. 

Jones carried this team last year.

I honestly don’t remember but what was the OL ranked in 2017? They were horrible IIRC......

Tex

 

[Bojang0301]

I didn’t say forget about his flaws. Every single back in this class has them but in the areas that it truly matters.....it’s either being ignored or forgotten. 

Jones carried this team last year.

I honestly don’t remember but what was the OL ranked in 2017? They were horrible IIRC......

Tex

The Oline was indeed terrible, that is something we can agree on. 

 

[BigTex]

Jones reminds me of Melvin Gordon and there were questions about him as a receiver as well.

I would agree there are some similarities there. I’m not big on comparisons but if you twisted my arm I’d absolutely say the same.

I can’t think of a running back who got to the 2nd level as quickly as Jones. The dude is just a natural with the ball in his hands. IMHO he’s being over looked in this draft.

Tex

 

[BigTex]

The Oline was indeed terrible, that is something we can agree on. 

Then can we really judge the running back for this? It seems like you put a lot in your research so I’m not being funny I’m just trying to get us to see the big picture.

Tex

 

[Bojang0301]

Then can we really judge the running back for this? It seems like you put a lot in your research so I’m not being funny I’m just trying to get us to see the big picture.

Tex

Well, that’s sort of the point of the way the RB’s runs are charted in the link I sent. He’s a conflicting back for me. For instance the Ohio State game, he has good runs but they were a team able to take the edge away from him and force him to run on the inside and he just doesn’t seem to be an agile or creative runner when forced to do that. It’s funny Gordon being mentioned. Chargers have been linked to Gordon as the 2nd part of a tandem with Gordon. I don’t think that would be good for any RB involved with that.

 

[Biabreakable]

I just charted Jones game against the Longhorns. He runs 5 routes in the cut ups.

One of these was his only catch which was at the end of the half. I was reading an interview with Jones about this play and they are running a hail mary as it was the last play, Jones breaks his route off short and settles into an open area of the zone. Darnold evades a pass rusher and is rolling to his right when he sees Jones come open. He hits Jones who is able to reverse to the left side of the field out running the defense, which is an example of his speed and acceleration to beat the mob of defenders to the edge after the catch. He almost loses his footing on his initial hard cut to the left side, but he is able to keep his balance and not fall down, and also recover his speed very quickly despite almost tripping himself on the turf monster.

2 of his other routes one is covered pretty well but the other is not, Darnold is looking elsewhere and not finding anyone open and ends up taking sacks.

1 of his other routes he is very open and turning upfield with room in front of him, but Darnold doesn't see Jones and makes an ill advised throw over the middle of the field that is intercepted and returned. I can see Jones kind of calling for the ball before he sees that Darnold has already thrown it, and then some frustration after the play, likely due to the interception, but also because this could have been a big play if Darnold throws Jones way instead of what he did decide to do.

There is a play earlier where Jones isn't that open but Darnold could have gotten the ball to him if he wanted to, he throws over the middle of the field and connects on this one, perhaps leading to the poor decision to try it again when he throws the interception. On the one he completed number 4 just makes a play for him, still a dangerous throw.

So the only time Darnold targets Jones is on the broken play, otherwise he is pushing it downfield.

Jones blocks a lot in this game. Not just for Darnold, but also for the WR screens, he does a very good job at both. This will help him get on the field.

Don't mean for this to be a thread just about Jones, but due to the ranking of him and how that relates to the other players in the same tier as him, I thought this worth further discussion.

FWIW in the 4 games I have charted for Jones now he has total scores of 64 against Stanford, 36 against Ohio State, 57 against Texas, 64 against UCLA. The average score of these 4 games is 55.25 which is actually pretty close to Guice who has 59.2 over 10 games charted.

I think I still need to chart a few more games, but this has me thinking Jones at least belongs in tier 2a the way I do rankings, which means RB 2 upside with a chance to move up to tier one if he is drafted high enough and has a good team fit. If he ends up being drafted later than I expect (2nd to 3r round) then he stays in tier two. As of right now he has the 3rd highest score by my charting of the RB.

 

[Biabreakable]

I would agree there are some similarities there. I’m not big on comparisons but if you twisted my arm I’d absolutely say the same.

I can’t think of a running back who got to the 2nd level as quickly as Jones. The dude is just a natural with the ball in his hands. IMHO he’s being over looked in this draft.

Tex

I appreciate your post about not over thinking it. Unfortunately I can't help myself, the reminder is grounding though. So in keeping things simple I bring up a player that he looks similar to, although every player is different of course, just a simple way to describe it through the comparison.

Jones doesn't have the workload and track record of Gordon and he buzz on Jones definitely isn't as stong as it was for Gordon coming into the league. Jones also didn't play for a team who was as friendly to a RB as Wisconsin.

Its more a stylistic comparison, I do think Gordon is better than Jones, but for the most part I like what I see watching Jones. He doesn't make me want to throw as many nerf bricks at the screen as I have watching other RB from this draft class.

As far as how to rank him I am mostly just trying to decide if he is tier one or tier 2a. If he is the 6th or later RB taken then ranking him tier one would have been too high. So I think its 2a.

 

[Bojang0301]

Ok, enough Ronald Jones... can we talk about Dontrell Hilliard now? Lol.

 

[Zyphros]

Ok, enough Ronald Jones... can we talk about Dontrell Hilliard now? Lol.

but but but, he's a small school Ronald Jones.... 

 

[Bojang0301]

but but but, he's a small school Ronald Jones.... 

So he’ll be much cheaper then. 

 

[barackdhouse]

Pass blocking Jones rated 93.8 right there with Barkley 92.8 so he can protect his QB which everyone on this board would agree that’s highly important for a rookie running back.

His fumble rate is elite at 207.7 and so is Barkley at 193.3 with Elite being 150 or higher.

So he can protect the QB, protect the ball and he’s the highest rated runner in the nation in 2017. Sounds like a 1st round back......don’t over think this one Gentlemen, don’t over think this one.

Tex

I'm not saying I disagree, but can you elaborate on who has him rated #1, and what measurement(s) were used to rate him as such?  Just curious about the source.

 

[joey]

Great work. I look forward to your post-draft tiers to see how your thoughts change. Please link to the new thread from hear as well since I just :conversed: this thread  

 

[BigTex]

I'm not saying I disagree, but can you elaborate on who has him rated #1, and what measurement(s) were used to rate him as such?  Just curious about the source.

PFF has rated the highest running back in the nation but just the 2017 Draft.

“USC’s Jones had the highest overall PFF grade in the entire nation in 2017 (92.4), a mark that is also tied for the highest single-season grade posted by any back in this class over their college careers. Jones isn’t the receiving threat that Barkley is, with just 40 targets over the past three years of play, but his carries are something special and he is, to an extent, the antithesis of Barkley’s running style, as he usually maximizes what his blockers provide for him.”

Tex

 

[ILUVBEER99]

Then can we really judge the running back for this? It seems like you put a lot in your research so I’m not being funny I’m just trying to get us to see the big picture.

Tex

Jones has dropped in FF circles due to missing a lot of the pre-draft process but it seems most of the legit NFL draft community still likes him a lot.

I won't be shocked at all if he's the #2 drafted RB.  Don't expect it but it's possible.

 

[BigTex]

Jones has dropped in FF circles due to missing a lot of the pre-draft process but it seems most of the legit NFL draft community still likes him a lot.

I won't be shocked at all if he's the #2 drafted RB.  Don't expect it but it's possible.

Barkley and Michel are potential names to be called before him but Players tend to get lost in the shuffle because they didn’t perform at the Combine but that should not stop us for grading his true skill sets during live games.

jones is a top 3-5 back.

Tex

 

[Bojang0301]

Everyone wants him to be Alvin Kamara, if I was to give him a favorable comp from last years draft it would be more Aaron Jones. Good production, good speed, questionable frame/durability, questions on his passing game usage and I personally have questions about whether he can run inside. It’s also a troubling suggestion that he struggled to run out of shotgun when NFL teams ran ~80% of all offense plays out of the formation.

I wish next gen stats were more readily available. I love when I can find tidbits on guys sustained MPH on the field. ZWK keeps posting it when he finds it and an example of where people missed last year was Hunt. He ran extremely slow at the combine but he was in the top 5 for MPH on the field in the first 1/3 of the season damn near every week. I would really like to see Jones just to put my mind at ease after all the hamstring stuff and rumors in two different directions at his 2nd pro day.

 

[Zyphros]

If Jones is as good as some people think, he’ll go around the same time, if not earlier than Michel in the actual draft.  Think of Corey Davis, he let his tape do every bit of his eval coming out, and it worked.  He kept his head down mostly and let his tape do the talking and went as a top 10 pick for a small school WR with no numbers.  Jones tried to do that but then caught the bug of wanting to put some numbers down and those were uninspiring.  That’s his mistake, I’d rather him put no numbers down and just see what happens because there are a lot of us who really liked him after watching him.   

 

[Bronco Billy]

Nice OP, very solid work.  Of course I’ve got some differing opinions on some of the positions of players but that doesn’t detract from your effort or opinion.

 

[BigTex]

I appreciate your post about not over thinking it. Unfortunately I can't help myself, the reminder is grounding though. So in keeping things simple I bring up a player that he looks similar to, although every player is different of course, just a simple way to describe it through the comparison.

Jones doesn't have the workload and track record of Gordon and he buzz on Jones definitely isn't as stong as it was for Gordon coming into the league. Jones also didn't play for a team who was as friendly to a RB as Wisconsin.

Its more a stylistic comparison, I do think Gordon is better than Jones, but for the most part I like what I see watching Jones. He doesn't make me want to throw as many nerf bricks at the screen as I have watching other RB from this draft class.

As far as how to rank him I am mostly just trying to decide if he is tier one or tier 2a. If he is the 6th or later RB taken then ranking him tier one would have been too high. So I think its 2a.

My point about not over-thinking it had A LOT more to do with Darnold he is horrible under pressure which you absolutely brought it home with your observation in the post before this one. When passing Darnold makes the worst decisions of all the top QBs in this draft. He threw 7 TDs and 6 Ints when under pressure. His numbers are not good and they show in how he played every week. Again, I don’t want to go into Darnold he may end up being a good NFL QB but he’s not a good college QB. He could have gotten Jones the ball more and he makes poor decision after poor decision.

Again, your observations were DEAD ON and it’s EXACTLY what I’ve seen game after game and I just don’t see how Darnold can be seen as the top overall QB based on his performance. I’m not an expert but this guy did not play well last year at all. Jones played well and carried this team in spite of a horrible OL and a shabby QB who IMHO is waaaaayyyyy overhyped! Good luck to whatever team drafts him.

IMHO Jones belongs in that 2nd Tier with Guice, Michel, Chubb and Penny but that’s just me.

Tex

 

[BigTex]

Everyone wants him to be Alvin Kamara, if I was to give him a favorable comp from last years draft it would be more Aaron Jones. Good production, good speed, questionable frame/durability, questions on his passing game usage and I personally have questions about whether he can run inside. It’s also a troubling suggestion that he struggled to run out of shotgun when NFL teams ran ~80% of all offense plays out of the formation.

I wish next gen stats were more readily available. I love when I can find tidbits on guys sustained MPH on the field. ZWK keeps posting it when he finds it and an example of where people missed last year was Hunt. He ran extremely slow at the combine but he was in the top 5 for MPH on the field in the first 1/3 of the season damn near every week. I would really like to see Jones just to put my mind at ease after all the hamstring stuff and rumors in two different directions at his 2nd pro day.

Bo, I’m not sure if he’s the next Kamara but I believe he has that type of talent when the lights turn on and the ball is in his hands. Some players just better ball players.

Tex

 

[BigTex]

Jones has dropped in FF circles due to missing a lot of the pre-draft process but it seems most of the legit NFL draft community still likes him a lot.

I won't be shocked at all if he's the #2 drafted RB.  Don't expect it but it's possible.

Players do drop often in some circles with very minimum explanations in some cases. I’m of the belief that if you are high on a person before the Combine or Pro Day then keep him there. Cook comes to mind from last year. There was very few of us that was still pumping up Cook as an Elite athlete and before his injury he can see he was getting better as the game started slowing down. He had some good games and some bad but what we saw on the field slowly started showing up on the field.

i don’t want to derail Bo’s thread so I’m off of Jones. Good luck to whoever drafts him and those that pass on him. If he’s there when my time comes along I’m not passing. 

Tex

 

[Biabreakable]

Okay lets talk about Nick Chub who Bojang has in tier one with Guice and Penny.

What is the best game that people have seen of Chubb?

I have charted 10 games for Chubb and his score is the lowest of the top 8 RB by my charting. So I am feeling like I am still missing something, or I need to watch some pre injury games from 2014.

 

[Zyphros]

Okay lets talk about Nick Chub who Bojang has in tier one with Guice and Penny.

What is the best game that people have seen of Chubb?

I have charted 10 games for Chubb and his score is the lowest of the top 8 RB by my charting. So I am feeling like I am still missing something, or I need to watch some pre injury games from 2014.

personally I really like the Tennessee game.  Not a lot of crazy good runs but he makes something out of nothing a lot, shows really good vision and leg drive as well.  Some pass protection problems in that one but if you're looking for an unimpressive game that is really impressive when you factor in the team defense and what Chubb was able to do with so little, I think it makes his floor look rather safe.  It's like a 3 minute game clip.  

 

[Biabreakable]

personally I really like the Tennessee game.  Not a lot of crazy good runs but he makes something out of nothing a lot, shows really good vision and leg drive as well.  Some pass protection problems in that one but if you're looking for an unimpressive game that is really impressive when you factor in the team defense and what Chubb was able to do with so little, I think it makes his floor look rather safe.  It's like a 3 minute game clip.  

I assume your talking about the 2017 game of Chubb against Tennessee? 

I charted that game already, in fact its the first game of Chubb's that I did. He does not get a very good score for this game, only 23  He did have some pass protection issues and I think he dropped a pass (or more) in this game too because I have him with a -1 for hands as well as -1 for blocking. I do have him with 5 vision 3 burst 3 power 4 footwork as some of the stronger positives from this game.

I am more looking for a game where Chubb is going off to chart as I do think he belongs in the top 8 of RB, but he doesn't score as well as the other RB in my charting.

I didn't chart it but just watched Chubb in the Championship game against Alabama and he has some good moves in this game even though he is getting dropped in the backfield a lot. He shows his game will translate to the next level though, he can play with these guys.

I was looking for a game to chart that might be better than this however.

 

[BigTex]

Okay lets talk about Nick Chub who Bojang has in tier one with Guice and Penny.

What is the best game that people have seen of Chubb?

I have charted 10 games for Chubb and his score is the lowest of the top 8 RB by my charting. So I am feeling like I am still missing something, or I need to watch some pre injury games from 2014.

Chubb is not the Chubb we watched destroy defenders pre-injury. I’m not saying he’s not good but he’s still riding that hype to some degree. People are banking that he’ll be that player but I don’t see “that” Chubb. Chubb is at the end of Tier 2 bordline Line Tier 3. He’s not available in my Dynasty league but if he was just based on what we know today I would have a hard pause before drafting him. 

Tex

 

[BigTex]

personally I really like the Tennessee game.  Not a lot of crazy good runs but he makes something out of nothing a lot, shows really good vision and leg drive as well.  Some pass protection problems in that one but if you're looking for an unimpressive game that is really impressive when you factor in the team defense and what Chubb was able to do with so little, I think it makes his floor look rather safe.  It's like a 3 minute game clip.  

Yeah his blocking is one of the worse in this class.

Tex

 

[Biabreakable]

This Tennessee game is actually the third worst score of the games I charted. 

There are 19 plays in the clip with one replay. 

At the 35 second mark is a great example of Chubbs burst and power to drive through multiple defenders. This is a very impressive run. He does fail a pass protection assignment and he drops an easy swing pass, perhaps hearing footsteps but he should have caught that. There are a few other impressive runs, one where he bends the run back to the inside with nice footwork and balance, he does have some good speed if he can get free. He got buried by the defense winning several times, which is just a dead play or a zero. Every RB has a few of those each game unless the blocking is great or the defense really sucks.

Anyhow 23 points for Chubb in this game is still less than Ronald Jones 36 points against Ohio State.

The best game for Chubb I have charted is against TCU where he gets 51  points.

A lot of the RB I have charted games of this year similar points as Chubbs best game, but many of them have higher scoring games than this, like in the 60's or 70's so that is what I was looking for with Chubb, his best game to include that in the sample, and then I would toss out his worst game which for me was against Notre Dame.

I wanted to do this because I threw out the worst game for Guice which was against Mississippi State where he had 30 points. Chubb did have 29 points against the same team last season, so they did similarly well against the same opponent. 

 

[Zyphros]

I assume your talking about the 2017 game of Chubb against Tennessee? 

I charted that game already, in fact its the first game of Chubb's that I did. He does not get a very good score for this game, only 23  He did have some pass protection issues and I think he dropped a pass (or more) in this game too because I have him with a -1 for hands as well as -1 for blocking. I do have him with 5 vision 3 burst 3 power 4 footwork as some of the stronger positives from this game.

I am more looking for a game where Chubb is going off to chart as I do think he belongs in the top 8 of RB, but he doesn't score as well as the other RB in my charting.

I didn't chart it but just watched Chubb in the Championship game against Alabama and he has some good moves in this game even though he is getting dropped in the backfield a lot. He shows his game will translate to the next level though, he can play with these guys.

I was looking for a game to chart that might be better than this however.

I think that -1 for hands is a bit harsh.  If we're talking the same game, it was a swing pass that he dropped because it was literally at his shoelaces, I don't expect any RB other than maybe Bell to catch that ball.  I wouldn't call that a negative. 

Anyways what was his highest scoring game for you?  Kentucky 2017?