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Bonds just sucks... (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter tdoss
- Start date
larry_boy_44
Footballguy
doesn't matter, A-Rod is gonna beat it with fanfare in a couple years
John Black
Footballguy
How awesome would it be if he got banned from baseball stuck at 754?
tdoss
Footballguy
I swear I had the same thought tonight...just roll it up over the plate.
Mr. Pickles
Footballguy
If by a "couple" you mean six or more, then perhaps.
It's still history.
PizzaDeliveryGuy
extra sausage
What's the problem?
Saints-Man
Footballguy
I agree, it is still history. I don't count myself as a Bonds fan, but I will attempt to watch when he goes to break the record. Steroids or not, he is still a great hitter and its is amazing that he is performing at this level(now) at his age. Each accomplishment in life as well as sports are not always done with people deserving of our admiration. But it is an admiration of the feat.
eagles2007
Footballguy
I'm not sure he's 'performing' at any kind of respectable level anymore. He looked awful last week against the Braves. He was almost walking to balls in the outfield. It's amazing he's actually stolen a base this year. I guess like most of his age, he wakes up feeling a little better some days. It's a shame. In addition to the steroids, he's kind of embarrassing the game now with his pursuit of this record. If he had 700 and not 750, I wonder if he'd walk away at this point?
Bonds leads the majors in OBP and OPS.
Keys Myaths
Pokerguy
Heh. Respectable level? Statistically, he's STILL the best player in baseball...even this year...even including defense.
BRONG
FOR A LIMITED TIME ONLY
Please.
the moops
Footballguy
He leads the NL with an OPS+ of 177. Same as A-Rod.
the moops
Footballguy
Johan Santana?
Albert Pujols
Junior Spivey.
First off...his OBP is due to te fact that some pitchers walk him out of spite. Others still don't want to risk having a ball hit 500 feet off of them. Let's not fool ourselves, people. Bonds still weighs 245 lbs. The growth hormone that he's been accused of taking is still not detectable by the current testing methods. Unlike Giambi and Pudge, who have shrunk considerably since testing began, Bonds is still huge. His skills may have eroded greatly, but when he does finally catch up with a fastball, it still goes a mile.
Let's not get too obssessed with OBP. At least not in Bonds' case. All you have to do is watch him play to realize that he is simply playing it out until he breaks the record. He is slow. He limps around. He may have a high fielding percentage, but he let's tons of base hits fall that others would have caught.
As I've mentioned on another board, I am rooting for him to hit his tiebreaking and record setting home runs on teh road. What a fitting end to this mockery it would be to watch him circle the bases to a chorus of boos.
Let's not get too obssessed with OBP. At least not in Bonds' case. All you have to do is watch him play to realize that he is simply playing it out until he breaks the record. He is slow. He limps around. He may have a high fielding percentage, but he let's tons of base hits fall that others would have caught.
As I've mentioned on another board, I am rooting for him to hit his tiebreaking and record setting home runs on teh road. What a fitting end to this mockery it would be to watch him circle the bases to a chorus of boos.
Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
Besides having no clue about Bonds 2007, I suspect you hold the all time hits record in high regard?
the moops
Footballguy
Yea, it sucks to have a guy on your team that gets on base in half his at bats. There's almost no value in that.
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Keys Myaths
Pokerguy
Bonds EQA: .364Chipper Jones EQA (2nd NL): .346A-Rod EQA (1st AL): .334Magglio Ordonez EQA (2nd AL): .331Dismiss it all you want. I don't like Bonds either, but to say he's an embarrassment shows unbelievable ignorance.
The Man from Laramie
Footballguy
I'd say he has at least 7, more probably 8-10. 256 is a lot of dingers.
The Man from Laramie
Footballguy
He's not an embarassment, but if you factor in how much he does and doesn't play, Bonds is the 15th most valuable hitter in baseball (using VORP).
dparker713
Footballguy
Bonds is obviously displaying flaws in some of the sabermetrics being used here. Yes, he's not playing horribly, but he's hardly the best player in baseball right now.
The Man from Laramie
Footballguy
He's only displaying the flaws in misusing statistics. If you use a rate statistic where a counting statistic is more appropriate, things won't look right.
Keys Myaths
Pokerguy
Using VORP to account for playing time is fine, but when he's on the field, he's still absolutely dominant. Jesus, he plays 4 times a week, and *even including days off*, he's the fifteenth best hitter in baseball?Honestly, I think that's MORE impressive than the EQA.
The Man from Laramie
Footballguy
Keys Myaths
Pokerguy
I'd argue all day that VORP, showing him at #15, further proves my point.And yes, when he's on the field, he's one of, if not THE best players in baseball. You want traditional statistics? His OBP is .493. He gets on base HALF the times he's at the plate. If you can't understand how valuable that is...even taking away his power, then I'm pretty much done here.
Keys Myaths
Pokerguy
You clearly disagree, so tell me why.
I've been wrong before...we're all here for a distraction at work. Give me one.dparker713
Footballguy
Well, he's been a fairly unique case this year. He still gets alot of calls and people wont challenge him. I think that is partly because of the animosity, partly not wanting to be a part of history and partly because the Giants offense is god awful.
Keys Myaths
Pokerguy
Granted. I never argued that he was the most talented player in baseball this year, just that he's been the best contributor to his team (at least, that's what I mean by "best").Pitchers are absolutely moronic for not pitching to the guy--although he has an incredible ability to get on base, and take pitches he doesn't want to hit. That's a very, very important talent that few people have. But, I do agree that pitchers are extremely wrong in the way they pitch to him. He's not the Barry of the early part of the century.
The Man from Laramie
Footballguy
If I didn't agree with you, I wouldn't have said OK. I would have made you look like a buffoon.It's what I do.You clearly disagree, so tell me why.I've been wrong before...we're all here for a distraction at work. Give me one.
Keys Myaths
Pokerguy
As for this, walking Bonds is still a horrid idea.I think it was James (or someone at BP) who ran a simulation with Ruth in his prime, and a bunch of replacement players. In one scenario, pitchers actually pitched to Ruth (used his normal stats), and in the other, the pitchers walked him in every at-bat.Obviously, you know the results...the team with the "walking Ruth" won FAR more games in a large, large sample-size simulation than the team who had Ruth hitting normally. The rate at which good hitters are "unintentionally, but intentionally walked" is unbearably too high.
Keys Myaths
Pokerguy
Damn, and I was all ready to question your patriotism again.If I didn't agree with you, I wouldn't have said OK. I would have made you look like a buffoon.It's what I do.You clearly disagree, so tell me why.
The Man from Laramie
Footballguy
If everyone on the team got on base 50% of the time, they'd have about 27 baserunners a game. That sounds pretty sweet.
dparker713
Footballguy
Not saying its the right thing to do, just that its part of the reason his OBP is so high.
The Man from Laramie
Footballguy
Keys Myaths
Pokerguy
And I don't disagree with you.This is a boring argument.
Keys Myaths
Pokerguy
You know I'm libertarian, right?
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
this is a great point. I think on base percentage is as underated of a stat as you can find. RBIs depend so much on people around youbatting average can be affected by where you are in the lineup and how good your team is alsostrikeouts arent as bad if you play on a team that doesnt get a lot of gujys on baseThe fact that he is walked so many times intentionally pretty much sums it all up.
Keys Myaths
Pokerguy
It used to be even MORE underrated. [/MichaelLewishatred]
The Man from Laramie
Footballguy
How novel. Do you ever feel like an outcast on these boards? Ron Paul in '08 and all that delerium!
Keys Myaths
Pokerguy
How novel. Do you ever feel like an outcast on these boards? Ron Paul in '08 and all that delerium!You know I'm libertarian, right?
I'd vote for Paul, but I'm not in love with him like many others are.
The Man from Laramie
Footballguy
In all fairness, I voted for Harry Browne as a high school senior in 1996, and am only partially embarassed about that fact today.
shadyridr
Footballguy
OPS is probably the one stat closest to describing how good a player is in baseball. But it is not perfect because it includes OBP which is not a perfect stat. Pitchers pitch around Bonds a ton because he has nobody protecting him in the lineup. If you took out his intentional walks plus his unintentional intentional walks then youd get a better indicator of a players OBP. Dont get me wrong Bonds' would still be pretty high most likely but not to the ridiculous nature it is now.
Keys Myaths
Pokerguy
I disagree with this. It's good, but not as good as other (nerdier) stats in terms of correlation with team runs scored.
Keys Myaths
Pokerguy
You old man.In all fairness, I voted for Harry Browne as a high school senior in 1996, and am only partially embarassed about that fact today.I'd vote for Paul, but I'm not in love with him like many others are.
The Man from Laramie
Footballguy
Sounds like you just need a little more time.You old man.In all fairness, I voted for Harry Browne as a high school senior in 1996, and am only partially embarassed about that fact today.
