Book Bannings (1 Viewer)

[KarmaPolice]

My main question would be what age is the target audience for a book like this?    

Reading the comments above, I would say that I am in between jon and jux.     I don't think it's fine, but I don't think it's a bannable book either.    Mostly I just find the book preachy and condescending, which to be fair is how a lot of things like that come off when trying to oversimplify concepts like this for kids, especially if you have an axe to grind.    It's seems too much for somebody my daughters age, but a picture book is probably too young for kids 10+.      

 

[Amused to Death]

One book I've seen banned from schools is Bradbury's "Fahrenheit 451". If you know the book, you can appreciate the irony.

One of my favorites, btw.

 

[jon_mx]

You would think that banning books is bad for America would be one thing that we could all agree on....

Oh please, you believe in banning books too.  Would you support children books which promoted Nazism and the demonization of Jews?  Jews were portrayed by the Nazis as an “alien race” that fed off the host nation, poisoned its culture, seized its economy, and enslaved its workers and farmers.  This book very similarly portrays whites in almost an identical light as Nazis prooanda against Jews.  Whites made a deal with the devil to steal land and riches from people of color.  

 

[massraider]

You would think that banning books is bad for America would be one thing that we could all agree on....

Came here to post this.

 

[jon_mx]

My main question would be what age is the target audience for a book like this?    

Reading the comments above, I would say that I am in between jon and jux.     I don't think it's fine, but I don't think it's a bannable book either.    Mostly I just find the book preachy and condescending, which to be fair is how a lot of things like that come off when trying to oversimplify concepts like this for kids, especially if you have an axe to grind.    It's seems too much for somebody my daughters age, but a picture book is probably too young for kids 10+.      

Probably for 6 to 9 year olds.  

 

[Amused to Death]

Oh please, you believe in banning books too.  Would you support children books which promoted Nazism and the demonization of Jews?  Jews were portrayed by the Nazis as an “alien race” that fed off the host nation, poisoned its culture, seized its economy, and enslaved its workers and farmers.  This book very similarly portrays whites in almost an identical light as Nazis prooanda against Jews.  Whites made a deal with the devil to steal land and riches from people of color.  

"Mein Kampf" was in my high school library in the '80s. No one freaked out.

 

[jon_mx]

"Mein Kampf" was in my high school library in the '80s. No one freaked out.

It was not in a cartoon targeted at young children as a good idea.  

 

[Amused to Death]

It was not in a cartoon targeted at young children as a good idea.  

I agree, it should be age-appropriate.

 

[jon_mx]

It is kind of funny where the two sides draw the line on censorship.  

Many on the left want to censor adult discussions of political ideas because of how impressionable adults are and can not know right from wrong.  But oddly children should have unfiltered access to information, well at least the information they want to brainwash kids with. 

 

[KarmaPolice]

I agree, it should be age-appropriate.

I think this part is missed too much in the discussion.   I also understand there will still be differences in what people think is age appropriate.   

 

[IvanKaramazov]

"Mein Kampf" was in my high school library in the '80s. No one freaked out.

Mein Kampf absolutely should be in HS libraries, by the way.  I know you probably agree, but it's important to say that out loud.  Kids in high school should be exposed to challenging ideas, and Mein Kampf has pretty obvious historical significance. 

Obviously I don't want teachers teaching Mein Kampf as if it were an instruction manual, but high schoolers should be able to walk into their library and pick up this one, the Communist Manifesto, the Bible, the Koran, the collected works of Derrick Bell, and anything else that less than a hard R.  (I would be cool with not having Lolita on the shelf, for example.)

 

[KarmaPolice]

I also think an important distinction is between books that are just at the library and books that are being actively taught in a classroom.     

If the target audience is supposed to be my daughter's age, I wouldn't want a teacher reading that book in her class, but I wouldn't be calling for it to be removed from the library.  

 

[Godsbrother]

But oddly children should have unfiltered access to information, well at least the information they want to brainwash kids with. 

I never said that I wanted all books be available to children of any age regardless of content.  It is the removal of books from public libraries that I am opposed to.

 

[KarmaPolice]

I never said that I wanted all books be available to children of any age regardless of content.  It is the removal of books from public libraries that I am opposed to.

Do you have different criteria for books in a school library vs city library?   Seems most of these battles are in school libraries. 

 

[Juxtatarot]

My main question would be what age is the target audience for a book like this?    

Reading the comments above, I would say that I am in between jon and jux.     I don't think it's fine, but I don't think it's a bannable book either.    Mostly I just find the book preachy and condescending, which to be fair is how a lot of things like that come off when trying to oversimplify concepts like this for kids, especially if you have an axe to grind.    It's seems too much for somebody my daughters age, but a picture book is probably too young for kids 10+.      

To be sure, it would probably be best for a kid to read it while having an adult there to discuss it with them.  Of course, that wouldn’t even work with all parents.
 

 

[Godsbrother]

Do you have different criteria for books in a school library vs city library?   Seems most of these battles are in school libraries. 

I think any book identified as "adult" (i.e. 18+) should not be included in school libraries

 

[jon_mx]

I think any book identified as "adult" (i.e. 18+) should not be included in school libraries

So books for children which show white people sold their souls to the devil are perfectly ok?

 

[KarmaPolice]

To be sure, it would probably be best for a kid to read it while having an adult there to discuss it with them.  Of course, that wouldn’t even work with all parents.
 

An overall objection I have is just based on what I read to and how I talk to my kids.   For us book time is for fun, not lectures.  Any "heavy" topics are just talked about naturally.  I understand my method is not for everyone, and they might want a book like that.  One thing that did connect with me a little is just that feeling of the kids seeing stuff on the TV/news that worries them.  But like I said above- I wouldn't want a teacher reading that to my daughters class.  

 

[Juxtatarot]

I wouldn't want a teacher reading that to my daughters class.  

I agree.

 

[Mookie]

So books for children which show white people sold their souls to the devil are perfectly ok?

Sure.  It's a pretty common theme in literature.

 

[massraider]

Very important to remember that we are only hearing about a percentage of these. 

When banning books, people don't create a viral post to make sure we all hear about it. They don't hold a press conference. A lot of this is done quietly. 

 

[jon_mx]

Sure.  It's a pretty common theme in literature.

And?  Those are adult themed books for mature audiences.  Not some book geared towards 6-year olds with anti-gun, anti-parent, anti-police, anti-white propaganda using fear and shaming to brainwash them.

 

[Mookie]

I think any book identified as "adult" (i.e. 18+) should not be included in school libraries

"Identified as 'adult'" by whom?  Is it the school board? The principal? A librarian? Teachers? Defer to  outside agency that classifies every book like they do movies?  And should the 14 year old freshman have the same access to the same book as the 19 year old senior?       

There's no "right" answer, and the debate is never-ending.  There will always be some that are outraged over what is or is not offered.  For this reason, each school district should have its own policy for what is offered in each school's library and who has access to the books in that library.  At least then, it can be applied consistently.    

 

[Godsbrother]

So books for children which show white people sold their souls to the devil are perfectly ok?

I remember reading the Devil and Daniel Webster in grade school.  

What book are you referring to?

 

[jon_mx]

I remember reading the Devil and Daniel Webster in grade school.  

What book are you referring to?

A CRT book called, "Not My Idea: A Book About Whiteness", which is a cartoon book for very young children.  There is a link with a reading of it on the previous page.  The highlight is:

Yes, let's read the actual words, which are actually worse than what the reviews claim.  From the book:

"Whiteness is a bad deal, always was!"

Binding Whiteness Deal Contract, which is being held by the devil:

"You get stolen land, stolen riches, special favors.  Whiteness gets you to mess endlessly with the lives of your friends, neighbors, loved ones and all fellow humans of color for the purpose of profit!"

"The only price is your soul, sign below"

What the hell kind of message is that?  White people wealth is all stolen, they endlessly screw people of color, and they are soulless beings who made a deal with the devil.  I am glad CRT is enriching our young children with the true history and not trying to fill their heads with hate-filled propaganda

 

[Godsbrother]

A CRT book called, "Not My Idea: A Book About Whiteness", which is a cartoon book for very young children.  There is a link with a reading of it on the previous page.  The highlight is:

Yes, let's read the actual words, which are actually worse than what the reviews claim.  From the book:

"Whiteness is a bad deal, always was!"

Binding Whiteness Deal Contract, which is being held by the devil:

"You get stolen land, stolen riches, special favors.  Whiteness gets you to mess endlessly with the lives of your friends, neighbors, loved ones and all fellow humans of color for the purpose of profit!"

"The only price is your soul, sign below"

What the hell kind of message is that?  White people wealth is all stolen, they endlessly screw people of color, and they are soulless beings who made a deal with the devil.  I am glad CRT is enriching our young children with the true history and not trying to fill their heads with hate-filled propaganda

Without having read it and judging by your excerpt, I agree that this is not appropriate for children and I would not allow my child to go to a school promoting it.  Are there any public schools doing that or is it being done in some private schools?

 

[dawgtrails]

A CRT book called, "Not My Idea: A Book About Whiteness", which is a cartoon book for very young children.  There is a link with a reading of it on the previous page.

Is this book being read to kids in schools? If so, I woudl agree with you that it is kind of ridiculous

 

[jon_mx]

Without having read it and judging by your excerpt, I agree that this is not appropriate for children and I would not allow my child to go to a school promoting it.  Are there any public schools doing that or is it being done in some private schools?

There is quite a contrast from the professional reviews to the ordinary reviews on Amazon.  Here are what the professionals say:

An honest explanation about how power and privilege factor into the lives of white children, at the expense of other groups, and how they can help seek justice. —THE NEW YORK TIMES

ONE OF HUFFPOST'S RECOMMENDED "ANTI-RACIST BOOKS FOR KIDS AND TEENS"

**A WHITE RAVEN 2019 SELECTION**

NAMED ONE OF SCHOOL LIBRARY JOURNAL'S BEST BOOKS OF 2018

Not My Idea: A Book About Whiteness is a picture book about racism and racial justice, inviting white children and parents to become curious about racism, accept that it's real, and cultivate justice.

This book does a phenomenal job of explaining how power and privilege affect us from birth, and how we can educate ourselves...Not My Idea is an incredibly important book, one that we should all be using as a catalyst for our anti-racist education. —THE TINY ACTIVIST

Quite frankly, the first book I’ve seen that provides an honest explanation for kids about the state of race in America today. —ELIZABETH BIRD, librarian

“It’s that exact mix of true-to-life humor and unflinching honesty that makes Higginbotham’s book work so well…”―PUBLISHERS WEEKLY (*Starred Review)

A much-needed title that provides a strong foundation for critical discussions of white people and racism, particularly for young audiences. Recommended for all collections. —SCHOOL LIBRARY JOURNAL (*Starred Review)

A necessary children's book about whiteness, white supremacy, and resistance… Important, accessible, needed. —KIRKUS REVIEWS

A timely story that addresses racism, civic responsibility, and the concept of whiteness. —FOREWORD REVIEWS

 

[Juxtatarot]

@jon_mx What do you think the title, Not My Idea means?

 

[jon_mx]

@jon_mx What do you think the title, Not My Idea means?

It seems to mean just because white people are evil doesn't mean you have to be.   You can reject your white privilege and join us in being a social warrior.  

 

[Godsbrother]

There is quite a contrast from the professional reviews to the ordinary reviews on Amazon.  Here are what the professionals say:

So is it being taught or pushed in public schools?   I am honestly asking cause I have no idea.

 

[sho nuff]

Or a book burning

Greg Locke at it again.  Apparently my daughter can’t be a Christian because she likes to read Harry Potter and Twilight.  

 

[KarmaPolice]

Or a book burning

Greg Locke at it again.  Apparently my daughter can’t be a Christian because she likes to read Harry Potter and Twilight.  

   I don't even know where to begin.  

 

[Bogart]

Or a book burning

Greg Locke at it again.  Apparently my daughter can’t be a Christian because she likes to read Harry Potter and Twilight.  

Started debating Locke on Twitter back in 2017. Even exchanged some emails. He was far away from being a Christian, at least the kind that I had been taught, back then. I never would have guessed back then he would be this far gone. Just a horrible individual.

 

[sho nuff]

Started debating Locke on Twitter back in 2017. Even exchanged some emails. He was far away from being a Christian, at least the kind that I had been taught, back then. I never would have guessed back then he would be this far gone. Just a horrible individual.

Their area keeps getting bigger too.  In at least the third tent they had had and they have gotten bigger each time.  

 

[Bogart]

Their area keeps getting bigger too.  In at least the third tent they had had and they have gotten bigger each time.  

People enjoy being angry about something, feeling superior to someone, and getting a car crash of a show on stage. Locke does all three of those for his followers.

 

[Frostillicus]

Amazing how every single discussion becomes my side vs. your side within 4 posts. Can't even have a discussion about something as awful as banning books without "yeah but your side.................." bull####. 

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Amazing how every single discussion becomes my side vs. your side within 4 posts. Can't even have a discussion about something as awful as banning books without "yeah but your side.................." bull####. 

The reason for that is because most people are in favor or censorship.  They just disagree on who should be censored.

Those of us who consistently oppose this sort of thing have very few allies these days.  It wasn't like this even 10 years ago.

 

[Manster]

The reason for that is because most people are in favor or censorship.  They just disagree on who should be censored.

Those of us who consistently oppose this sort of thing have very few allies these days.  It wasn't like this even 10 years ago.

It's the battle for children's minds essentially.  This is why it's so important for parents to be the main influence for their children.....to guide them.  So many people send their children off to public school and don't really pay attention to what's being taught......that's a mistake.  My wife and I set the standard for our children, and we keep an open discussion with them about  what they are being exposed to.......you know, active parenting.

All that said, I don't think any books should be banned.  I think parents need to be more involved with their damn kids!

 

[2Squirrels1Nut]

Girls Who Code founder speaks out after Pennsylvania school district bans her books: 'This is about controlling women and it starts with controlling our girls'

It's always the GOP, the party of FREEDOM!!! that does stuff like this. Always.

I agree with the author, like RvW, it's about controlling women. The taliban must be so proud.

ETA

After reflecting, really, the GOP and elite that support them want to control everybody.

 

[Amused to Death]

Girls Who Code founder speaks out after Pennsylvania school district bans her books: 'This is about controlling women and it starts with controlling our girls'

It's always the GOP, the party of FREEDOM!!! that does stuff like this. Always.

I agree with the author, like RvW, it's about controlling women. The taliban must be so proud.

ETA

After reflecting, really, the GOP and elite that support them want to control everybody.

I would really love to hear the explanation on this one. A book about girls learning to write code.

The Girls Who Code books were banned specifically by Pennsylvania's Central York School District, located in a critical political swing region where Saujani said the organization has an active club. But she said the move is part of a larger effort by Moms for Liberty, a conservative organization that advocates for parental rights in schools, including oversight of educational material.

"In some ways we know that book banning has been an extreme political tool by the right — banning books to protect our kids from things that are 'obscene' or 'provocative' — but there is nothing obscene or provocative about these books," she told Insider.

Moms for Liberty did not immediately respond to Insider's request to comment on the ban.

 

[The Commish]

I would really love to hear the explanation on this one. A book about girls learning to write code

If dictionaries arent off limits is anything off limits?

 

[quick-hands]

Annie Kinsella:
"At least he is not a book burner, you Nazi cow."

Yeah, well your husband plowed under his crop!

at least I'm not married to the biggest horses *** in three counties.


PEACE LOVE DOPE!!!

 

[2Squirrels1Nut]

I would really love to hear the explanation on this one. A book about girls learning to write code

If dictionaries arent off limits is anything off limits?

J6 may have failed, for now, but all part of the plan to turn America into a theofascist country with the GOP at the top. You may read that and think "oh come on"! You don't have to believe me, listen and look at what they're doing.

 

[Chaz McNulty]

Girls Who Code founder speaks out after Pennsylvania school district bans her books: 'This is about controlling women and it starts with controlling our girls'

It's always the GOP, the party of FREEDOM!!! that does stuff like this. Always.

I agree with the author, like RvW, it's about controlling women. The taliban must be so proud.

ETA

After reflecting, really, the GOP and elite that support them want to control everybody.

I would really love to hear the explanation on this one. A book about girls learning to write code.

The Girls Who Code books were banned specifically by Pennsylvania's Central York School District, located in a critical political swing region where Saujani said the organization has an active club. But she said the move is part of a larger effort by Moms for Liberty, a conservative organization that advocates for parental rights in schools, including oversight of educational material.

"In some ways we know that book banning has been an extreme political tool by the right — banning books to protect our kids from things that are 'obscene' or 'provocative' — but there is nothing obscene or provocative about these books," she told Insider.

Moms for Liberty did not immediately respond to Insider's request to comment on the ban.

The same district also banned The Handmaid's Tale.

 

[timschochet]

I would really love to hear the explanation on this one. A book about girls learning to write code

If dictionaries arent off limits is anything off limits?

J6 may have failed, for now, but all part of the plan to turn America into a theofascist country with the GOP at the top. You may read that and think "oh come on"! You don't have to believe me, listen and look at what they're doing.

Except it’s not being done by the GOP per se. It’s being done by a local group of conservatives.

Some conservatives around here have tried to argue that the Democratic Party is for “defund the police”. That’s a lie; some leftists are for it but not the Democratic Party. I think it’s only fair to apply the same rules here.

 

[Amused to Death]

Girls Who Code founder speaks out after Pennsylvania school district bans her books: 'This is about controlling women and it starts with controlling our girls'

It's always the GOP, the party of FREEDOM!!! that does stuff like this. Always.

I agree with the author, like RvW, it's about controlling women. The taliban must be so proud.

ETA

After reflecting, really, the GOP and elite that support them want to control everybody.

I would really love to hear the explanation on this one. A book about girls learning to write code.

The Girls Who Code books were banned specifically by Pennsylvania's Central York School District, located in a critical political swing region where Saujani said the organization has an active club. But she said the move is part of a larger effort by Moms for Liberty, a conservative organization that advocates for parental rights in schools, including oversight of educational material.

"In some ways we know that book banning has been an extreme political tool by the right — banning books to protect our kids from things that are 'obscene' or 'provocative' — but there is nothing obscene or provocative about these books," she told Insider.

Moms for Liberty did not immediately respond to Insider's request to comment on the ban.

The same district also banned The Handmaid's Tale.

Sounds a little bit like cancel culture to me. Who are the snowflakes again?

 

[2Squirrels1Nut]

I would really love to hear the explanation on this one. A book about girls learning to write code

If dictionaries arent off limits is anything off limits?

J6 may have failed, for now, but all part of the plan to turn America into a theofascist country with the GOP at the top. You may read that and think "oh come on"! You don't have to believe me, listen and look at what they're doing.

Except it’s not being done by the GOP per se. It’s being done by a local group of conservatives.

Some conservatives around here have tried to argue that the Democratic Party is for “defund the police”. That’s a lie; some leftists are for it but not the Democratic Party. I think it’s only fair to apply the same rules here.

It's a nationwide local groups of conservatives taking away freedoms and doing everything they can to make Christianity the only true religion.

As a devout Christian, I find it scary when you consider what has happened historically when people like this are successful.

 

[timschochet]

I would really love to hear the explanation on this one. A book about girls learning to write code

If dictionaries arent off limits is anything off limits?

J6 may have failed, for now, but all part of the plan to turn America into a theofascist country with the GOP at the top. You may read that and think "oh come on"! You don't have to believe me, listen and look at what they're doing.

Also, it’s important to note that while censorship is an awful awful thing, it was only until late in the 20th century that many books were NOT censored on a regular basis in schools and libraries based on the pressure from similar groups. And we weren’t a fascist dictatorship then or ever. This is wrong, always has been, and it needs to be fought, But it’s nothing new amd we shouldn’t go overboard fearing the worst.

 

[Amused to Death]

It's a nationwide local groups of conservatives taking away freedoms and doing everything they can to make Christianity the only true religion.

As a devout Christian, I find it scary when you consider what has happened historically when people like this are successful.

I make no secret of my atheism and I have nothing against religion for other people. But Christian Nationalism worries me. That said, I don't know what the CN tie-in is for this particular book.

This movement however of "I don't want my kids to read this so I want it banned for everyone" is dangerous. Worry about your own kids. Start there.