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Boy who identifies as girl competing in girl's track (1 Viewer)

fantasycurse42 said:
Of course, two wrongs don't make a right.
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That's my point.  There are probably 100 girls on steroids in High School and NCAA athletics to every transgender person (when we're talking about people placing in events because nobody really should be complaining about the person finishing 150th).  And there are way way more on the boys side.  So it just seems silly for this to be such a major issue and nobody really cares about steroids at any level of athletics (except MLB to a point).  I'd be willing to guess that 75% of the guys in the NFL are on steroids.  And probably more than 25% of High School boys playing football are on some sort of performance enhancer.

 
Limp Ditka said:
:goodposting:

Miss that night before feeling. Especially when pitching.

Still remember being one out away from a shut out when I was 10. Bases loaded, 3-0 game, lazy fly ball to left and the kid out there wasn't paying attention and ended up butchering it. From there it turned into the typical little league circus and everyone scored. Lost 4-3. It still makes my stomach turn, because I was dominant that day, but obviously now know it really doesn't matter. Kid in left went to a different grade school, so we didn't hang out much then, but ended up at the same high school and being really good friends.
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Load the bases in the last inning and the coach left you in?  it wasn't Brad Ausmus by chance, was it?

 
gianmarco said:
Aside from the sports consideration, your putting "feel" in quotes like that shows you don't have a true understanding of what it's like for transgender people.  You (and others) should watch this to get a little glimpse into what it's like:

Misfit

To put some perspective on this, as well, you should understand that this affects more than 0.5% of the population.  In the US, that's almost 2M people.  Just because awareness of it isn't of the levels of where it is for other minorities, the time for that to change is coming. 

The sports issue will have to be addressed for sure, but let's not blame the students in this situation either.
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There's a lot of people in this world depressed, confused and upset for a lot of different reasons.  No one is doubting or denying that "transgender people" don't have it rough, and no one is saying they understand what it feels like.

But a boy running in a girls event is simply an unfair advantage regardless of whether that boy thinks that he/she should be a girl.

 
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shader said:
There's a lot of people in this world depressed, confused and upset for a lot of different reasons.  No one is doubting or denying that the "transgender people" don't feel awful.

But a boy running in a girls event is simply an unfair advantage regardless of whether that boy thinks that he/she should be a girl.
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:goodposting:

 
I really don't understand the trans thing. Oh we're just going to let 10 year olds choose what sex they want to be? If you were born with a penis, you are a dude. If you were born with a ######, you're a girl. I know that probably makes me sound like a neanderthal, but whatever.

 
Rick James said:
I really don't understand the trans thing. Oh we're just going to let 10 year olds choose what sex they want to be? If you were born with a penis, you are a dude. If you were born with a ######, you're a girl. I know that probably makes me sound like a neanderthal, but whatever.
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no, it just makes you sound uneducated :shrug:

 
Rick James said:
I really don't understand the trans thing. Oh we're just going to let 10 year olds choose what sex they want to be? If you were born with a penis, you are a dude. If you were born with a ######, you're a girl. I know that probably makes me sound like a neanderthal, but whatever.
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I understand that.  I held the same opinion for a long time, and I partially still do.  Now I just realize that there are a huge number of people in this world and once in a while one will pop up that chooses to live their lives in a different way that I do, and some of those ways are weird or foolish or bewildering to me.  I tend to be forgiving to people the live these types of lives because I can't imagine that they would intentionally live that way merely for attention or for the slight benefits they receive as opposed to the potential ostracization and likely doors shut upon them.

 
There should be two competition classifications:

"XX" chromosome competition: open to males and females, and

"XY" chromosome competition: also open to males and females.

 
Hmm.  Seems pretty obvious that this is wrong, and that people have lost their ####### minds in this country by "catering" to certain small groups of people rather than just accepting them for what they are without making things all stupid like this.

Call me crazy, but instead of taking a boy who is mentally a girl and putting them in girls track pissing off most anyone involved, how bout we have that boy run boys track.  Seems like a nice life lesson for the transgender individual and also for others that fair is fair, and this isnt fair.  

 
fantasycurse42 said:
I think one thing that gets overlooked when you're older is that winning is important to a youth. Sure, I look back on a lot of sports I played before I was the old man I am today and realize that nothing life changing or important came out of those games, but that isn't how I felt in my youth, and I assume the youngsters playing today feel the same. 

I remember getting butterflies in my gut, the excitement for the game, anticipation to play, the preparation, trouble sleeping the night before - the happiness from winning and the sadness from losing. We overlook this as adults because we know in the grand scheme it is inconsequential for about 99.999% of the participants, but they don't know that and winning is everything when playing (I'm not talking about 9 year old little league, that's for fun, although winning still makes it more enjoyable). Although, I do remember a pee wee football season from when I was 9, we went undefeated and played and lost in the pee wee regional finals (or whatever they were), I was crushed. 
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To elite high school athletes it's everything.  A State Championship can mean getting into a school like Duke (which our #1 female runner is striving for) and possibly getting an athletic scholarship. And that's real money - potentially life changing money.  Aside from that, it's just flat out unfair.  I see our #1 runner on the road almost daily.  Like I said earlier, she ran 400 miles last summer.  And now her dreams of a state championship are dashed because Ricky Williams decides he wants to identify as a girl.  And in today's society - nobody gives a hoot about the girl's situation.  We'd rather accommodate 1 person at the expense of 200 other people.

Back in the Cheatsheet days around 2002 I shared a story that some of you may remember.  I videotaped football games for a local high back then, and at the end of the season would put together a great video of all the highlights.  Anyhow, one night the RB on our team - a little guy but with blazing speed - has the game of his life and rushes for 512 yards and breaks the all-time state record.  I called the local news at halftime and told them to come down as something big might be happening.  They showed up right before he broke the record.  I also took the tape to ESPN on the one in a million shot I could get him on the Plays of the Week which Berman did every Sunday night.  I couldn't get into the Main building, but they directed me to the mailroom about a block away.  I dropped the tape off to a kid who looked like he was just out of high school and asked if he could get the tape to Chris Berman.  He says, "Yeah man, no problem.  I'll run it up to him right now".  I Wrote a quick note saying that if they needed me to sign any type of waiver to give me a call and I'd come back down.  When I got home Chris Berman called.  Talked to him for about 20 minutes.  Long story short - the kid made the next night's Plays of the Week at #7 - sandwiched in between Brett Favre and Jerry Rice.  That one game, and the publicity he got for it, changed his life.  He was borderline D1 but ended up getting a full ride (can't remember where).

Anyone saying there aren't people being harmed here is just being obtuse as massraider would say.

 
Niles Standish said:
That's my point.  There are probably 100 girls on steroids in High School and NCAA athletics to every transgender person (when we're talking about people placing in events because nobody really should be complaining about the person finishing 150th).  And there are way way more on the boys side.  So it just seems silly for this to be such a major issue and nobody really cares about steroids at any level of athletics (except MLB to a point).  I'd be willing to guess that 75% of the guys in the NFL are on steroids.  And probably more than 25% of High School boys playing football are on some sort of performance enhancer.
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This situation is like the transgender version of openly shooting up before a meet, and then watching them dominate the competition.

Yes, I realize steroids don't work like that, but I think you would find similar outrage to the steroid user if it was done right in front of everyone's nose.

 
Whenever our freshman soccer team scrimmaged the girl's varsity soccer team we would absolutely decimate them. We're talking 10-0 wins with minimal effort. Some of those girls had fantastic footwork too (better than mine) but athletically they just weren't a match. If someone were to have hypothetically transferred from my varsity team's starting line-up to the girl's team, they would easily be considered one of the top players in the state. When it comes to sports specifically, I don't believe someone who is biologically born as a boy you should be allowed to compete against girls

 
Niles Standish said:
That's my point.  There are probably 100 girls on steroids in High School and NCAA athletics to every transgender person (when we're talking about people placing in events because nobody really should be complaining about the person finishing 150th).  And there are way way more on the boys side.  So it just seems silly for this to be such a major issue and nobody really cares about steroids at any level of athletics (except MLB to a point).  I'd be willing to guess that 75% of the guys in the NFL are on steroids.  And probably more than 25% of High School boys playing football are on some sort of performance enhancer.
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So because steroids is a bigger issue it's no longer unfair to the girls having to compete against Ricky?   :loco:

 
Black Box said:
This situation is like the transgender version of openly shooting up before a meet, and then watching them dominate the competition.

Yes, I realize steroids don't work like that, but I think you would find similar outrage to the steroid user if it was done right in front of everyone's nose.
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Kind of like the McGwire v. Sosa HR competition where everyone assumed they were on steroids but the ratings were the highest ever?  Or like the NFL where guys are caught every year and nobody cares a week after their suspension?

 
Dedfin said:
I understand that.  I held the same opinion for a long time, and I partially still do.  Now I just realize that there are a huge number of people in this world and once in a while one will pop up that chooses to live their lives in a different way that I do, and some of those ways are weird or foolish or bewildering to me.  I tend to be forgiving to people the live these types of lives because I can't imagine that they would intentionally live that way merely for attention or for the slight benefits they receive as opposed to the potential ostracization and likely doors shut upon them.
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Yeah you seem like such a tolerant, forgiving dude.   :lmao:

 
I am sure this issue is rather difficult for the transgender individual, but let's try and use a little logic on this one.  Rather than forcing this ONE particular transgender individual to compete against the gender they were born as rather than the gender they identify as, we are essentially forcing ALL of the female track participants to compete in boys track. 

:cstu:

 
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Higgs said:
So because steroids is a bigger issue it's no longer unfair to the girls having to compete against Ricky?   :loco:
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Not what I said at all.  I just find the hypocrisy funny.  We have something that affects virtually every athlete in the world at every level above High School.  And not a big deal.  On the other side we have something that is 1 person in Connecticut Girls High School Track and it's a bigger deal.  Like I said earlier I don't really care if the transgender person competes with their born gender or the one they identify with.  It's such a small deal.  Just make a rule and run with it.  Simple.

 
If this were a naturally born girl competing against boys, this would be a half page thread.

Most people just don't appreciate a born male coming in and squashing girls, basically.

 
I don't have time to read through all the pages. Has someone already said (s)he's got a leg up on the competition?

 
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Niles Standish said:
:loco:

There are not a lot of transgender people in CT high school girls track either.  But you seem to think that is a big issue.
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I wouldn't call it a big issue.  But it's definitely an issue.  It's impacting my son's team and a good friend of mine whose daughter now has no shot a state championship.  Is it the end of the world?  Of course not.  It's not sarin gas either.  But it's still a lousy policy.  Worse than that though is the ridiculous conversation I had to have with my son and their friends yesterday where I basically advised them not to even mention the issue during meets or around any reporters.  As we all know nothing good would come out of that.

 
Fred Lane said:
There should be two competition classifications:

"XX" chromosome competition: open to males and females, and

"XY" chromosome competition: also open to males and females.
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Many XY women are unable to process testosterone at all.  Which means while their testosterone levels are the same as a man's, they display none of the dominant physical characteristics one would normally associate with testosterone - it's the same as having no testosterone at all in the blood.

 
Niles Standish said:
Not what I said at all.  I just find the hypocrisy funny.  We have something that affects virtually every athlete in the world at every level above High School.  And not a big deal.  On the other side we have something that is 1 person in Connecticut Girls High School Track and it's a bigger deal.  Like I said earlier I don't really care if the transgender person competes with their born gender or the one they identify with.  It's such a small deal.  Just make a rule and run with it.  Simple.
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Not sure what you're talking about.  I can guarantee you that steroids are a big deal in high school athletics.  And there are rules against steroids.  This is a completely different situation where the rules permit something ridiculously unfair to occur.  And if you speak out against it you are typically shunned and shamed.

 
In my town we have boys teams, girls teams and trans teams. Neighbor's kid got cut from the trans football team last fall. Quarterback. Whole block was stunned because the girl has a rocket arm.

 
The solution is decoupling gender from sex just as we have mostly decoupled sex from sexual preference. There shouldn't be any reason we can't have someone that has the sex of male and competes as a male, but is of the female gender. It would take a lot of societal deprogramming because people are locked into thinking people's behavior needs to fit certain patterns based on having a penis or not. My 8 year old nephew wants to identify as a girl. He's been that way his whole life. The issue for him isn't that he wants a ######, it's that most of the things he likes, the feelings he has, the people he best identifies with are what society have taught him are "for girls". So it causes him to see himself as a girl. If we could mentally separate the physical from the social-emotional, we could potentially reduce this problem. However, society is more critical of a guy with a penis that dresses and acts closer what we consider female than they are of someone that is transgender.

Of course, this is all my random hypothesizing, but if we actually allowed gender to be more fluid, we would have less issues with it. The truth is that gender is more a continuum. 

 
Niles Standish said:
Such a small issue.  Are we talking about something like 10 or less transgender people in the country who are winning high school and college sporting events?  If the parents are really worried about their kids getting cheated I'd imagine steroid use is 100 times more common among girls.  And probably 10,000 times more common among boys.  I personally don't really care if you make transgender kids compete with their born gender or the gender they identify with.  But you certainly should allow them to compete in one group or the other.  I think we have bigger issues to worry and complain about personally.  But that's just me.
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Of course transgender kids should be allowed to compete in high school sports. We have to square the fact that sex (not sure if that's the right term) is no longer a binary thing with the fact that we only have men's and women's sports. 

 
Henry Ford said:
I'm of the opinion one should be out of the running for titles or accolades until one is on hormone treatments for a year.  Don't have an issue with the general competition aspect.
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Yes...need to setup certain requirements and thresholdsandif yiu can't meet them you don't get to compete for titles and so on 

 
sho nuff said:
Yes...need to setup certain requirements and thresholdsandif yiu can't meet them you don't get to compete for titles and so on 
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I agree. But that's not going to happen because I'd bet a very large amount of money that any idea like that will be met with OUTRAGE that it's discrimination

 
Cowboysfan8 said:
I agree. But that's not going to happen because I'd bet a very large amount of money that any idea like that will be met with OUTRAGE that it's discrimination
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Bingo.  And who wants to be on the receiving end of those allegations?  And think of it this way - it's a great opportunity to virtue signal.

 
Higgs said:
Bingo.  And who wants to be on the receiving end of those allegations?  And think of it this way - it's a great opportunity to virtue signal.
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Virtue signaling belongs in the phrases that need retiring thread. Also you are one of the most guilty people here. 

 
Henry Ford said:
Many XY women are unable to process testosterone at all.  Which means while their testosterone levels are the same as a man's, they display none of the dominant physical characteristics one would normally associate with testosterone - it's the same as having no testosterone at all in the blood.
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I think that was a good start, but imo phenotype is more important.  Hormone levels in the body?  Isn't there some regulating body like IAAF or something that has written a guideline on this?  Maybe we should consider what they have to say.

 
Willie Neslon said:
In my town we have boys teams, girls teams and trans teams. Neighbor's kid got cut from the trans football team last fall. Quarterback. Whole block was stunned because the girl has a rocket arm.
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This.  Either separate all gender indentities or everything is coed.  I'm fine either way, which is what is important here.

 
Dedfin said:
I think that was a good start, but imo phenotype is more important.  Hormone levels in the body?  Isn't there some regulating body like IAAF or something that has written a guideline on this?  Maybe we should consider what they have to say.
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Yeah, most governing bodies now recognize a waiver exception for women whose bodies are testosterone resistant as a result of one of a few diagnoses like 46,xy androgen insensitivity.

 
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