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If you could win consideration that what Suggs did might possibly qualify as 'forcibly' then I no longer like NFL football. It's that simple for me. That wasn't forcibly. I know forcibly, and that sir, was not forcibly. Later.Play nice everybody.
Before I even read all these pages or arguing it is what I thought. He looked like he was trying to avoid him. Either he nails him clearly late and full on in the chest smashing him to the ground. Or he pulls off and tries to miss. He was screwed either way. Which is why the defensive players are mad. They can't win. If they play to beat the other team, the will get called for BS penalties. And Brady begging for flags only makes it worse. I am sure Brady is scared after the knee injury, but its easy to see the defenses side here. They can't win either way. So, of course its annoying when the whiny QB begs for the flag after you tried to avoid him. (and barely grazed him)
Forcible: Impelled by physical force against resistance.Force = mass x accelerationIt seems to qualify. Sorry that you won't be enjoying NFL football anymore. There's always soccer, no one ever complains about bad calls there.
watch the clip. there was PLENTY of space for suggs to sidestep or otherwise avoid brady without have to launch directly towards brady's lower leg. watch the clip and then tell me if you still think suggs was trying to avoid brady.
I have watched it ten times and yes that is what I think. He clearly appears to be avoiding a direct hit by trying to avoid him and falling to the left. (our left)
Watching a couple of the posted videos of the Suggs attempt made me think of the Wilfork hit on Losman. To me, the only difference between the two plays is that Wilfork made more significant contact than Suggs was able to. I noted that Suggs, when diving at Brady's knees, threw out his elbow, which made grazing contact... pretty much like Wilfork did. One other difference was that Suggs seemed to be clear of any blocker contact for a larger distance that Wilfork, but that may not be accurate, as I haven't seen the Wilfork hit for some time. I see many of the posters here calling this a BS call are the same that called Wilfork's hit malicious and dirty. Diving at QBs knees is a penalty, regardless of it being Brady or any other QB. You shouldn't need to have an injury to deem it a penalty.
Here's the link with the clipThe first 9 seconds include a camera angle that make it tough to see whats going on. The camera angle beginning at 10 seconds makes it plain what transpired.benm3218 said:
The crux of this argument is that Suggs did not hit Brady hard enough to warrant a penalty. Does anyone think Suggs did not hit Brady at all? If Brady hadn't eluded it he would likely be out for the year and everyone would be calling for Suggs head on a platter.
You are full of it. I am really surprised you just posted this. You are being biased. He started falling/tripping 5 yards before he hit Brady. It is plain to see.
I don't understand your point. I don't think anyone thinks Suggs completely missed Brady (or if they've said as much I missed it in my skimming). How does your question relate to what the right call should have been for what actually did happen?
I see it like Senior VBD and can't believe that people think this is penalty. His elbow comes out because he is falling and trying to brace his fall. If he had wanted to take out Brady's knees, he could have easily. He is falling and falls to the left of him. The contact is certainly not "forcible."As for the ref, it looks to me like he first reaches his hand to his belt, then as Brady pumps and looks at him he simultaneously reaches behind his back for the flag. It seems to me like his hand at his belt he is hesitating and thinking about it and then as Brady gesticulates he decides.
Except that Brady whines just as much when a defensive players fingernail comes within 3 inches of knicking the side of his helmet...Nigel said:Yeah, shocking that a guy fresh off a year of knee reconstruction rehab would take offense to a 300+ lb dude trying to wreck his knees.
You mean you see it like me and NOT like SeniorVBD. Because he thinks that Suggs was purposefully diving and aiming for his leg and extending elbow not to stop fall but to hit knee...
It seems pretty clear to me that Suggs trips. From one angle it looked like he tripped over 61s foot but it doesn't look that way from the other angle. He still looks like he trips, though. I simply can't see where anyone can interpret this as both intentional and forcible.
I think you disagree with Sr.VBDStudentThat said, I didn't bother reading the whole thread. Am I correct in that ONLY Patriots fans really think it was a legitimate flag? And that everyone else realizes it was a joke of a penalty?
Seems that way.
Amazing how many people can look at the same thing and "clearly" see completely differnt things.
Yep. Look at Sugg's knee, he definitely trips. Brady get's nervous because of the hit on his knee last year and that is understandable. The ref reacts to Brady moving his injured leg quickly and Sugg on the ground and throws the flag. It should not have been a flag.It seems pretty clear to me that Suggs trips. From one angle it looked like he tripped over 61s foot but it doesn't look that way from the other angle. He still looks like he trips, though. I simply can't see where anyone can interpret this as both intentional and forcible.
Absolutely. Thing is the lineman that pushed him immediately started pointing to Suggs wanting a flag. Also apparently Brady even commented to Lewis on one of the flags that is was a weak call.
That's the root rule. It's a judgment call and only need be a "physical act" that in the Referee's judgment was "unwarranted". The "forcible" concept is a Red Herring. It's completely subjective and not necessarily a requirement. The rule regarding hitting below the knees is a guideline and simply clarifies that it's one of the things that is expressly prohibited.
Suggs hit Brady at the knees, it was a good call...actually I should say it was the correct call.
actually, this pats fan doesnt think it was a legitimate flag, specifically because intent is not enough as explained above.you will not convince me however that suggs' intent was not to take brady out. the second half of the clip i bumped makes it plain that whether or not suggs tripped he clearly altered his falling path towards brady. if you dont see the clip that way, oh well.
I'm not a fan of the Pats, not by a long shot but it was the correct call.
I see it exactly that way, and there wasn't just intent, there was contact, and it was unwarranted. So it was a completely legitimate flag IMO.
After you see the hits other QBs took this week, this thread is lame.
Just because the refs made some bad non calls doesn't mean they should give a pass to Suggs diving/falling (whatever) at Brady's knees.And none of those examples relate to this specific rule.
I don't think Pats fans are crying at all; it's Ray Lewis and Patriot haters doing all the whining. Find something new to hate on, fellas. The Pats aren't even the best team in the league (as we get reminded so many times), so why do we keep talking about them?
Yes I'm clearly searching for reasons. That's why I opened the thread to defend NE (which you convienently igonre) and then saw all the chowder-whine.It's one thing for a coach to manufacture the old as dirt "us against the world" mantra, but it's kinda pathetic when fans do it....get over yourself.
Tom Brady just married a super-model. Ray Lewis was involved in a crime that ended in someone's death and has played as an extra in Lexington Steeles greatest BBC porno films. Who needs to "come-out" and confess something here?Shark PostNo. That makes him guilty of perjury.I'm pretty sure Lewis was sporting a fedora in that video clip when he was being interviewed. Does that make him a pansy too?No. Brady is the one that wears the fedoras and sweater vests.I wish he'd just go ahead and "come out".Who? Ray-ray?
I gave a summary of Dilfer's segment. That's all. The most opinion I gave in it was that it was a great segment. I never claimed the segment meant they should "give a pass to Suggs". Nor did I say anything trying to connect the segment to this specific rule. I didn't even come close to doing either so I have no idea why you would think that I did.I thought it would be apparent that I was posting it because I thought Dilfer had a great point that their goal is to protect the QB, yet in practice they are penalizing a lot of plays that were low injury risk to the QB while letting a lot go that are much bigger injury risks. Since that doesn't seem to be the case though, there, I just said it outright.
I wasn't accusing you of anything. I don't consider Dilfer's comments to be germane to this discussion.The call was correct, the reasons for it don't seem too important.
Describing that "hit" on Brady as "forcible" is laughable and renders the word completely meaningless.One of the worst calls ever. There is no way to defend the call. Again, intent is not a consideration in the enforcement of the rule, which is clearly evident on a reading of the wording of the rule itself.Brady was barely touched, never mind forcibly hit.The NFL owes the Ravens a mea culpa.Edit to add: You have made the same mistake as several others in this thread; the merit of the rule is not at issue here. The issue is that it was not properly applied in this case.
He's simply the poster boy for Goodell's ruination of the game.Personally, I have never heard an NFL player come across like such a female.
"The best team doesn't always win," said Kordell Stewart after losing the AFC Championship Game.
You can debate the definition of forcible until the cows come home (presuming you lost your cows) but the fact is that Suggs dove/tripped (whatever) into Brady's knees and made contact. That is all that is required to throw the flag. If not for a last minute dodge by Brady we would all be talking about one of the worst cheap shots of all time.It was the correct call.[/brokenrecord]
