Brandon Marshall (1 Viewer)

[SSOG]

I think last year Marshall started the year as a "could be elite" due to his talent and of course he wasn't elite to start the year since he was a first year starter and second year player but mid way through the season on he was as good and dominant as anyone outside Randy. Everyone in the stadium knew he was getting the ball yet no one could stop it. What are your target projections for Marshall?

I agree that everyone knew he was getting the ball. I disagree that no one could stop it. His raw totals are eye-popping thanks to sheer volume of targets, but his per-target play wasn't exceptional. In fact, on money downs, it could be argued that he wasn't even Cutler's primary target. Stokley converted 60% of the times he was thrown to on 3rd down. Marshall converted 41%. Stokley had a virtually identical number of first downs on 40% fewer targets. Marshall performed well, but there were over a dozen WRs who would have done significantly better with a comparable number of targets, IMO. As I said last year- I think Marshall's strengths lead to him being overrated. He's phenomenal with the ball in his hands. When the ball's in his hands, everyone's watching him. As a result, everyone sees his highlights and is intimately familiar with his strengths. They're also blissfully unaware of the fact that he's surprisingly average when the ball is not in his hands. People don't often watch receivers when the ball is in someone else's hands, but what they do at that time is as important as what they do when they DO have the ball (caveat: he is a DEVASTATING blocker).Another big point working against Marshall is the fact that, despite his measurables, he's NOT a great red-zone threat yet. Marshall was targeted 24 times last year inside the opponent's 20. He converted those 24 targets into 5 TDs. Stokley and Scheffler combined for 8 TDs on 11 targets. Both of those guys are back again this year, and it looks like Denver is dedicated to increasing its goal-line rushing success with Pittman. Even if Denver's TDs increase, Marshall has done nothing to demonstrate that he's capable of being a consistent enough scoring threat to finish the season as the #1 WR in fantasy.As far as a target projection for Marshall... I think 150 is a fair target projection for Marshall. Of course, he missed a game, so pro-rating 150 targets over a 15-game season gives us 141. Seems a fair enough estimate to me.Marshall got a ton of raves in camp, so I expect a big step forward this year. I don't think that necessarily will translate to an increase in his statistics, but he's definitely going to evolve and improve as an NFL receiver. I'm looking for something like 87/1250/9, which would prorate to 93/1333 over a 16-game season. Extremely good numbers for a fantasy receiver, but not #1-caliber numbers.

 

[madd futher]

I LOVE the consensus here since today I traded Turner even up for Marshall (It is in a 1ppr league). Even so, i had another owner tell me i just wrecked my season.

 

[Team ROFLCOPTERS]

I think last year Marshall started the year as a "could be elite" due to his talent and of course he wasn't elite to start the year since he was a first year starter and second year player but mid way through the season on he was as good and dominant as anyone outside Randy. Everyone in the stadium knew he was getting the ball yet no one could stop it. What are your target projections for Marshall?

I agree that everyone knew he was getting the ball. I disagree that no one could stop it. His raw totals are eye-popping thanks to sheer volume of targets, but his per-target play wasn't exceptional. In fact, on money downs, it could be argued that he wasn't even Cutler's primary target. Stokley converted 60% of the times he was thrown to on 3rd down. Marshall converted 41%. Stokley had a virtually identical number of first downs on 40% fewer targets. Marshall performed well, but there were over a dozen WRs who would have done significantly better with a comparable number of targets, IMO. As I said last year- I think Marshall's strengths lead to him being overrated. He's phenomenal with the ball in his hands. When the ball's in his hands, everyone's watching him. As a result, everyone sees his highlights and is intimately familiar with his strengths. They're also blissfully unaware of the fact that he's surprisingly average when the ball is not in his hands. People don't often watch receivers when the ball is in someone else's hands, but what they do at that time is as important as what they do when they DO have the ball (caveat: he is a DEVASTATING blocker).Another big point working against Marshall is the fact that, despite his measurables, he's NOT a great red-zone threat yet. Marshall was targeted 24 times last year inside the opponent's 20. He converted those 24 targets into 5 TDs. Stokley and Scheffler combined for 8 TDs on 11 targets. Both of those guys are back again this year, and it looks like Denver is dedicated to increasing its goal-line rushing success with Pittman. Even if Denver's TDs increase, Marshall has done nothing to demonstrate that he's capable of being a consistent enough scoring threat to finish the season as the #1 WR in fantasy.As far as a target projection for Marshall... I think 150 is a fair target projection for Marshall. Of course, he missed a game, so pro-rating 150 targets over a 15-game season gives us 141. Seems a fair enough estimate to me.Marshall got a ton of raves in camp, so I expect a big step forward this year. I don't think that necessarily will translate to an increase in his statistics, but he's definitely going to evolve and improve as an NFL receiver. I'm looking for something like 87/1250/9, which would prorate to 93/1333 over a 16-game season. Extremely good numbers for a fantasy receiver, but not #1-caliber numbers.

If you, me and everyone watching knew they were going to Marshall in the red zone you can guarantee that every opponent on the field and on the sidelines knew what was happening. Youre stats prove it. The WR's on the other side converting 8/11 are a testament to the double and triple teams that are poking at Marshall in the back of the end zone. I am positive that any WR not named Moss would have very comparable red zone numbers.

 

[SSOG]

I think last year Marshall started the year as a "could be elite" due to his talent and of course he wasn't elite to start the year since he was a first year starter and second year player but mid way through the season on he was as good and dominant as anyone outside Randy. Everyone in the stadium knew he was getting the ball yet no one could stop it. What are your target projections for Marshall?

I agree that everyone knew he was getting the ball. I disagree that no one could stop it. His raw totals are eye-popping thanks to sheer volume of targets, but his per-target play wasn't exceptional. In fact, on money downs, it could be argued that he wasn't even Cutler's primary target. Stokley converted 60% of the times he was thrown to on 3rd down. Marshall converted 41%. Stokley had a virtually identical number of first downs on 40% fewer targets. Marshall performed well, but there were over a dozen WRs who would have done significantly better with a comparable number of targets, IMO. As I said last year- I think Marshall's strengths lead to him being overrated. He's phenomenal with the ball in his hands. When the ball's in his hands, everyone's watching him. As a result, everyone sees his highlights and is intimately familiar with his strengths. They're also blissfully unaware of the fact that he's surprisingly average when the ball is not in his hands. People don't often watch receivers when the ball is in someone else's hands, but what they do at that time is as important as what they do when they DO have the ball (caveat: he is a DEVASTATING blocker).Another big point working against Marshall is the fact that, despite his measurables, he's NOT a great red-zone threat yet. Marshall was targeted 24 times last year inside the opponent's 20. He converted those 24 targets into 5 TDs. Stokley and Scheffler combined for 8 TDs on 11 targets. Both of those guys are back again this year, and it looks like Denver is dedicated to increasing its goal-line rushing success with Pittman. Even if Denver's TDs increase, Marshall has done nothing to demonstrate that he's capable of being a consistent enough scoring threat to finish the season as the #1 WR in fantasy.As far as a target projection for Marshall... I think 150 is a fair target projection for Marshall. Of course, he missed a game, so pro-rating 150 targets over a 15-game season gives us 141. Seems a fair enough estimate to me.Marshall got a ton of raves in camp, so I expect a big step forward this year. I don't think that necessarily will translate to an increase in his statistics, but he's definitely going to evolve and improve as an NFL receiver. I'm looking for something like 87/1250/9, which would prorate to 93/1333 over a 16-game season. Extremely good numbers for a fantasy receiver, but not #1-caliber numbers.

If you, me and everyone watching knew they were going to Marshall in the red zone you can guarantee that every opponent on the field and on the sidelines knew what was happening. Youre stats prove it. The WR's on the other side converting 8/11 are a testament to the double and triple teams that are poking at Marshall in the back of the end zone. I am positive that any WR not named Moss would have very comparable red zone numbers.

Week 1-8, before Brandon Marshall really emerged:Brandon Marshall- 8 targets, 2 scoresScheffler and Stokley- 4 targets, 4 scoresIn week 5, you, me, and everyone watching didn't know that they were going to Marshall (only 8 red zone targets in 8 weeks). The double-teams don't explain the disparity.Also, don't be so positive about any non-Moss WR posting comparable numbers. Marques Colston was the closest comp I could find (stud WR with no one else grabbing red zone targets). Colston had 27 RZ targets. His closest teammate was Bush with 12, only two of which were converted. Colston managed 10 TDs on 27 targets (compared to 5 on 24 for Marshall). Check the conversion rates for all of the other "elite" WRs in the NFL and you'll clearly see that Marshall is among the worst of the "elite" WRs at converting red-zone targets into TDs. It's a very small sample size, and it might change, but until it does, it's hard to envision Marshall posting the TD totals necessary for a #1 finish. Especially given Denver's history (Sharpe, Smith, and McCaffrey COMBINED posted three 10 TD seasons, one 11 TD season, and one 12 TD season- no seasons of 13 or more).Fantasy WR1 has averaged 244 points so far this decade. Assuming Marshall matches the best single-season TD total that Sharpe, Smith, and McCaffrey COMBINED posted (12 TDs, and that's being generous since he's already down a game), then in order to finish with 244 points he'd need to go for 1720 yards (in 15 games). Over a 16-game season, that'd pro-rate to 1834 yards, 14 short of the highest single-season yardage total in NFL history. Show of hands- who thinks that's likely to happen?

 

[CASS101]

Week 1-8, before Brandon Marshall really emerged:Brandon Marshall- 8 targets, 2 scoresScheffler and Stokley- 4 targets, 4 scoresIn week 5, you, me, and everyone watching didn't know that they were going to Marshall (only 8 red zone targets in 8 weeks). The double-teams don't explain the disparity.Also, don't be so positive about any non-Moss WR posting comparable numbers. Marques Colston was the closest comp I could find (stud WR with no one else grabbing red zone targets). Colston had 27 RZ targets. His closest teammate was Bush with 12, only two of which were converted. Colston managed 10 TDs on 27 targets (compared to 5 on 24 for Marshall). Check the conversion rates for all of the other "elite" WRs in the NFL and you'll clearly see that Marshall is among the worst of the "elite" WRs at converting red-zone targets into TDs. It's a very small sample size, and it might change, but until it does, it's hard to envision Marshall posting the TD totals necessary for a #1 finish. Especially given Denver's history (Sharpe, Smith, and McCaffrey COMBINED posted three 10 TD seasons, one 11 TD season, and one 12 TD season- no seasons of 13 or more).Fantasy WR1 has averaged 244 points so far this decade. Assuming Marshall matches the best single-season TD total that Sharpe, Smith, and McCaffrey COMBINED posted (12 TDs, and that's being generous since he's already down a game), then in order to finish with 244 points he'd need to go for 1720 yards (in 15 games). Over a 16-game season, that'd pro-rate to 1834 yards, 14 short of the highest single-season yardage total in NFL history. Show of hands- who thinks that's likely to happen?

When comparing today's Broncos with those Elway teams, you are forgetting one major difference.....Terrell Davis. Davis ate up a lot of yards and TDs in those offenses. I think they will be throwing more these days compared to the past as Shanahan plays more to his teams strengths. And another thing about Sharpe, Smith and McCaffrey.....they didn't have Cutler tossing them the ball....lolI think Royal will help keep the defenses honest this year by possibly limiting double teams in the end zone. And Marshall did improve over the second half last year when he scored 5 of his 7 TDs. So, we just don't know for sure what his true ceiling will be. But, Marshall would have to put up a plethora of TDs to end up the #1 WR overall in the league. There are a lot of great WRs out there. It doesn't only take a great personal performance, but also a bit of luck. So, you never know what's going to happen.

 

[Banger]

I think last year Marshall started the year as a "could be elite" due to his talent and of course he wasn't elite to start the year since he was a first year starter and second year player but mid way through the season on he was as good and dominant as anyone outside Randy. Everyone in the stadium knew he was getting the ball yet no one could stop it. What are your target projections for Marshall?

I agree that everyone knew he was getting the ball. I disagree that no one could stop it. His raw totals are eye-popping thanks to sheer volume of targets, but his per-target play wasn't exceptional. In fact, on money downs, it could be argued that he wasn't even Cutler's primary target. Stokley converted 60% of the times he was thrown to on 3rd down. Marshall converted 41%. Stokley had a virtually identical number of first downs on 40% fewer targets. Marshall performed well, but there were over a dozen WRs who would have done significantly better with a comparable number of targets, IMO. As I said last year- I think Marshall's strengths lead to him being overrated. He's phenomenal with the ball in his hands. When the ball's in his hands, everyone's watching him. As a result, everyone sees his highlights and is intimately familiar with his strengths. They're also blissfully unaware of the fact that he's surprisingly average when the ball is not in his hands. People don't often watch receivers when the ball is in someone else's hands, but what they do at that time is as important as what they do when they DO have the ball (caveat: he is a DEVASTATING blocker).Another big point working against Marshall is the fact that, despite his measurables, he's NOT a great red-zone threat yet. Marshall was targeted 24 times last year inside the opponent's 20. He converted those 24 targets into 5 TDs. Stokley and Scheffler combined for 8 TDs on 11 targets. Both of those guys are back again this year, and it looks like Denver is dedicated to increasing its goal-line rushing success with Pittman. Even if Denver's TDs increase, Marshall has done nothing to demonstrate that he's capable of being a consistent enough scoring threat to finish the season as the #1 WR in fantasy.As far as a target projection for Marshall... I think 150 is a fair target projection for Marshall. Of course, he missed a game, so pro-rating 150 targets over a 15-game season gives us 141. Seems a fair enough estimate to me.Marshall got a ton of raves in camp, so I expect a big step forward this year. I don't think that necessarily will translate to an increase in his statistics, but he's definitely going to evolve and improve as an NFL receiver. I'm looking for something like 87/1250/9, which would prorate to 93/1333 over a 16-game season. Extremely good numbers for a fantasy receiver, but not #1-caliber numbers.

If you, me and everyone watching knew they were going to Marshall in the red zone you can guarantee that every opponent on the field and on the sidelines knew what was happening. Youre stats prove it. The WR's on the other side converting 8/11 are a testament to the double and triple teams that are poking at Marshall in the back of the end zone. I am positive that any WR not named Moss would have very comparable red zone numbers.

Week 1-8, before Brandon Marshall really emerged:Brandon Marshall- 8 targets, 2 scoresScheffler and Stokley- 4 targets, 4 scoresIn week 5, you, me, and everyone watching didn't know that they were going to Marshall (only 8 red zone targets in 8 weeks). The double-teams don't explain the disparity.Also, don't be so positive about any non-Moss WR posting comparable numbers. Marques Colston was the closest comp I could find (stud WR with no one else grabbing red zone targets). Colston had 27 RZ targets. His closest teammate was Bush with 12, only two of which were converted. Colston managed 10 TDs on 27 targets (compared to 5 on 24 for Marshall). Check the conversion rates for all of the other "elite" WRs in the NFL and you'll clearly see that Marshall is among the worst of the "elite" WRs at converting red-zone targets into TDs. It's a very small sample size, and it might change, but until it does, it's hard to envision Marshall posting the TD totals necessary for a #1 finish. Especially given Denver's history (Sharpe, Smith, and McCaffrey COMBINED posted three 10 TD seasons, one 11 TD season, and one 12 TD season- no seasons of 13 or more).Fantasy WR1 has averaged 244 points so far this decade. Assuming Marshall matches the best single-season TD total that Sharpe, Smith, and McCaffrey COMBINED posted (12 TDs, and that's being generous since he's already down a game), then in order to finish with 244 points he'd need to go for 1720 yards (in 15 games). Over a 16-game season, that'd pro-rate to 1834 yards, 14 short of the highest single-season yardage total in NFL history. Show of hands- who thinks that's likely to happen?

Overall Denver was horrible in the redzone last year. I expect them to be better due to Cutler, an improved line, emergence of talent outside of Marshall as well as Marshall's growth. The fact that he hasn't converted a high percentage in his 1st season does not mean that he won't. There is no reason to believe that he won't be a good redzone target...he's got great leaping ability, good hands, very strong/physical, he's huge and he's got a good/accurate QB throwing him the ball. We are just dealing with a young WR with a small sample size. He'll be one of the best wr's in the league this year.

 

[DrJamesAndrews Fan]

Marshalls upside potential is huge. He should finish in the top 5 for WR's IMO.

 

[WiDDoW_MaKeR]

I would bet against it. He got a ton of targets last year... but I think that Cutler will spread it around better this year.

 

[walkwithme]

Of course he can be the top fantasy WR. The teams he played last year knew he was getting the ball last and still could not stop him. You have a 6-4 220+ WR that is matchup problem for any team in the league. He accounted for a third of the receptions and more than a third of the yards for the Broncos when everyone knew Cutler was going to throw to him most of the time.

 

[Manster]

he could be top 5, no doubt. i'm very impressed with Cutler. i hope he continues his play from week 1. IF Cutler really takes command of this team as he is capable, i see him as a possible top 3 QB. this could translate to Marshall and Royal being around top 10 WR's. look for marshall coming back to help Royal. teams will have to gameplan for both, and Royal should be a star in the NFL.

 

[PumpusX]

Without Royal...he could have been. With Royal...his number of targets will drop by about 10-20%.So, no, I don't think so.

I would think Royal would only help Marshall.

How did Moss do with Welker, Harrison with Wayne (and vice versa), Fitzgerald with Bolden, Holt with Bruce, etc. etc. etc....

 

[MCguidance]

I LOVE the consensus here since today I traded Turner even up for Marshall (It is in a 1ppr league). Even so, i had another owner tell me i just wrecked my season.

Hard to know whether this is the case without knowing more information - team, other players, etc. I would think if you had good RB depth and believed you needed another WR you made a good move. But if you now are depleted at RB and already had 2 strong WRs, then I would say you may have screwed yourself.

 

[MCguidance]

I think last year Marshall started the year as a "could be elite" due to his talent and of course he wasn't elite to start the year since he was a first year starter and second year player but mid way through the season on he was as good and dominant as anyone outside Randy. Everyone in the stadium knew he was getting the ball yet no one could stop it. What are your target projections for Marshall?

I agree that everyone knew he was getting the ball. I disagree that no one could stop it. His raw totals are eye-popping thanks to sheer volume of targets, but his per-target play wasn't exceptional. In fact, on money downs, it could be argued that he wasn't even Cutler's primary target. Stokley converted 60% of the times he was thrown to on 3rd down. Marshall converted 41%. Stokley had a virtually identical number of first downs on 40% fewer targets. Marshall performed well, but there were over a dozen WRs who would have done significantly better with a comparable number of targets, IMO. As I said last year- I think Marshall's strengths lead to him being overrated. He's phenomenal with the ball in his hands. When the ball's in his hands, everyone's watching him. As a result, everyone sees his highlights and is intimately familiar with his strengths. They're also blissfully unaware of the fact that he's surprisingly average when the ball is not in his hands. People don't often watch receivers when the ball is in someone else's hands, but what they do at that time is as important as what they do when they DO have the ball (caveat: he is a DEVASTATING blocker).Another big point working against Marshall is the fact that, despite his measurables, he's NOT a great red-zone threat yet. Marshall was targeted 24 times last year inside the opponent's 20. He converted those 24 targets into 5 TDs. Stokley and Scheffler combined for 8 TDs on 11 targets. Both of those guys are back again this year, and it looks like Denver is dedicated to increasing its goal-line rushing success with Pittman. Even if Denver's TDs increase, Marshall has done nothing to demonstrate that he's capable of being a consistent enough scoring threat to finish the season as the #1 WR in fantasy.As far as a target projection for Marshall... I think 150 is a fair target projection for Marshall. Of course, he missed a game, so pro-rating 150 targets over a 15-game season gives us 141. Seems a fair enough estimate to me.Marshall got a ton of raves in camp, so I expect a big step forward this year. I don't think that necessarily will translate to an increase in his statistics, but he's definitely going to evolve and improve as an NFL receiver. I'm looking for something like 87/1250/9, which would prorate to 93/1333 over a 16-game season. Extremely good numbers for a fantasy receiver, but not #1-caliber numbers.

If you, me and everyone watching knew they were going to Marshall in the red zone you can guarantee that every opponent on the field and on the sidelines knew what was happening. Youre stats prove it. The WR's on the other side converting 8/11 are a testament to the double and triple teams that are poking at Marshall in the back of the end zone. I am positive that any WR not named Moss would have very comparable red zone numbers.

Week 1-8, before Brandon Marshall really emerged:Brandon Marshall- 8 targets, 2 scoresScheffler and Stokley- 4 targets, 4 scoresIn week 5, you, me, and everyone watching didn't know that they were going to Marshall (only 8 red zone targets in 8 weeks). The double-teams don't explain the disparity.Also, don't be so positive about any non-Moss WR posting comparable numbers. Marques Colston was the closest comp I could find (stud WR with no one else grabbing red zone targets). Colston had 27 RZ targets. His closest teammate was Bush with 12, only two of which were converted. Colston managed 10 TDs on 27 targets (compared to 5 on 24 for Marshall). Check the conversion rates for all of the other "elite" WRs in the NFL and you'll clearly see that Marshall is among the worst of the "elite" WRs at converting red-zone targets into TDs. It's a very small sample size, and it might change, but until it does, it's hard to envision Marshall posting the TD totals necessary for a #1 finish. Especially given Denver's history (Sharpe, Smith, and McCaffrey COMBINED posted three 10 TD seasons, one 11 TD season, and one 12 TD season- no seasons of 13 or more).Fantasy WR1 has averaged 244 points so far this decade. Assuming Marshall matches the best single-season TD total that Sharpe, Smith, and McCaffrey COMBINED posted (12 TDs, and that's being generous since he's already down a game), then in order to finish with 244 points he'd need to go for 1720 yards (in 15 games). Over a 16-game season, that'd pro-rate to 1834 yards, 14 short of the highest single-season yardage total in NFL history. Show of hands- who thinks that's likely to happen?

Good arguments on both sides. It shows the highly volatile nature of predicting TDs. IMO, he could convert 5 of 24 again, or he could convert 12. You could argue he's not yet elite in that category, but at the same time could say that Cutler is now better. It goes on and on, which, getting back to my original point, makes TDs very hard to predict.

 

[brednbuddah]

I would bet against it. He got a ton of targets last year... but I think that Cutler will spread it around better this year.

All the great QBs spread it around but when they need a quick 6 or a clutch catch they go to their main guy. (i.e. Montana/Rice, Marino/Duper, Manning/Harrison). Can he finish #1WR? Who knows. If he finishes in the top 5 or even top 10, you won't hear me complaining.disclaimer - please don't take this out of context. I'm not comparing Culter/Marshall to any of the other duos, just to make a point.edit - spelling

 

[Max Power]

Mandatory Bump...

 

[DrJamesAndrews Fan]

 

[Kai's Hero]

Brandon Marshall was the Top WR the 2nd half of last season and he IS the most dominating WR in the league today!

 

[Banger]

It certainly looks like his targets are due to regress. I only counted 21 targets and 18 receptions.....Maybe another season or two until he becomes elite....

 

[Lash]

not "can he be?"

should read "how long will he be FF WR1?"

 

[FavreCo]

Owner you are playing against: He's always open. Why you ask? Because he seperates TOWARDS the ball when it is on its way allowing him to make moves after the catch.

 

[Bolted]

Without Royal...he could have been. With Royal...his number of targets will drop by about 10-20%.So, no, I don't think so.

OUCH!

 

[thehornet]

omgomgomgomgomgogmomgogmomgomgomgomg!!!

 

[facook]

As an owner, I'm thrilled. As a guy that passed on Boldin for him, I'm a little bummed (after 2 weeks).

 

[Young 8]

Good arguments on both sides. It shows the highly volatile nature of predicting TDs. IMO, he could convert 5 of 24 again, or he could convert 12. You could argue he's not yet elite in that category, but at the same time could say that Cutler is now better. It goes on and on, which, getting back to my original point, makes TDs very hard to predict.

no, it's notSSOG is just a "biased" Javon Walker fan

go to read some posts about Walker (the superstud) Marshall (the good player) from last season to check his "credibility", lol

 

[Deranged Hermit]

As an owner, I'm thrilled. As a guy that passed on Boldin for him, I'm a little bummed (after 2 weeks).

Some of us have both of them.

 

[MCguidance]

Oof, kid can play.

 

[SSOG]

Good arguments on both sides. It shows the highly volatile nature of predicting TDs. IMO, he could convert 5 of 24 again, or he could convert 12. You could argue he's not yet elite in that category, but at the same time could say that Cutler is now better. It goes on and on, which, getting back to my original point, makes TDs very hard to predict.

no, it's notSSOG is just a "biased" Javon Walker fan

go to read some posts about Walker (the superstud) Marshall (the good player) from last season to check his "credibility", lol

I'm a Javon Walker fan? Ask anyone with a pulse- I'm a Denver Broncos fan, period. The Raiders are the hated enemy. Why would I be a fan of a Raiders WR, especially one who was petulant and deemed himself too good for my beloved Broncos, over a Broncos WR, especially one who I have repeatedly (repeatedly REPEATEDLY) said looks like he's a future uberstud and who will probably be a huge lynchpin in the offense for many years to come? How does that make the slightest bit of sense? Yeah, I've totally abandoned all loyalty for my team because I was just so touched by the caring and nurturing attitude that Javon Walker demonstrated while in Denver. His Cristal-spraying ways really illuminated what an incredible humanitarian and asset to society as a whole he really is. I knew somebody would bump this after Marshall's game today. It was an impressive game, absolutely. His 85% catch% was remarkable, he showed very good concentration in traffic and during contact (especially on that facemask penalty). Great, great game. I'm going to stop short of calling it an all-time great game, though. The reception total is very gaudy, but not all receptions are created equal (I'm referring specifically to the junk around the LoS). He was much improved in terms of concentration and consistency, which were two of my biggest criticisms of him last year. Good to see a healthy progression as a wide receiver.

I still have to point out that I think this just reinforces why Marshall won't finish the year as the #1 WR. Cutler threw four passing TDs. All four came in the red zone. Two went to Scheffler, one went to Royal, one went to Marshall. Despite everyone repeatedly claiming that Marshall simply must be Cutler's go-to guy in the red zone, Cutler has repeatedly demonstrated that Marshall simply isn't. And don't look now, but with 3 goal-line TDs in 2 games, Michael Pittman is fast demonstrating that Denver has a goal-line RB again. I still think Marshall will be hard-pressed to post the kind of TD numbers necessary to lay claim to the #1 spot. Top 5? Sure, easily within Marshall's grasp. #1 overall? Nope, not happening.

By the way, you want to talk about amazing games, check out the player Marshall most closely resembles, IMO- Mr. Anquan Boldin. Marshall has yet to demonstrate he's even better than Boldin, let alone one of the best in the league (no slight intended towards Marshall- Boldin is a beast with the highest receiving yards per game in NFL history).

 

[Judge Smails]

Good arguments on both sides. It shows the highly volatile nature of predicting TDs. IMO, he could convert 5 of 24 again, or he could convert 12. You could argue he's not yet elite in that category, but at the same time could say that Cutler is now better. It goes on and on, which, getting back to my original point, makes TDs very hard to predict.

no, it's notSSOG is just a "biased" Javon Walker fan

go to read some posts about Walker (the superstud) Marshall (the good player) from last season to check his "credibility", lol

I'm a Javon Walker fan? Ask anyone with a pulse- I'm a Denver Broncos fan, period. The Raiders are the hated enemy. Why would I be a fan of a Raiders WR, especially one who was petulant and deemed himself too good for my beloved Broncos, over a Broncos WR, especially one who I have repeatedly (repeatedly REPEATEDLY) said looks like he's a future uberstud and who will probably be a huge lynchpin in the offense for many years to come? How does that make the slightest bit of sense? Yeah, I've totally abandoned all loyalty for my team because I was just so touched by the caring and nurturing attitude that Javon Walker demonstrated while in Denver. His Cristal-spraying ways really illuminated what an incredible humanitarian and asset to society as a whole he really is. I knew somebody would bump this after Marshall's game today. It was an impressive game, absolutely. His 85% catch% was remarkable, he showed very good concentration in traffic and during contact (especially on that facemask penalty). Great, great game. I'm going to stop short of calling it an all-time great game, though. The reception total is very gaudy, but not all receptions are created equal (I'm referring specifically to the junk around the LoS). He was much improved in terms of concentration and consistency, which were two of my biggest criticisms of him last year. Good to see a healthy progression as a wide receiver.

I still have to point out that I think this just reinforces why Marshall won't finish the year as the #1 WR. Cutler threw four passing TDs. All four came in the red zone. Two went to Scheffler, one went to Royal, one went to Marshall. Despite everyone repeatedly claiming that Marshall simply must be Cutler's go-to guy in the red zone, Cutler has repeatedly demonstrated that Marshall simply isn't. And don't look now, but with 3 goal-line TDs in 2 games, Michael Pittman is fast demonstrating that Denver has a goal-line RB again. I still think Marshall will be hard-pressed to post the kind of TD numbers necessary to lay claim to the #1 spot. Top 5? Sure, easily within Marshall's grasp. #1 overall? Nope, not happening.

By the way, you want to talk about amazing games, check out the player Marshall most closely resembles, IMO- Mr. Anquan Boldin. Marshall has yet to demonstrate he's even better than Boldin, let alone one of the best in the league (no slight intended towards Marshall- Boldin is a beast with the highest receiving yards per game in NFL history).

Dude - just stop. I have to read War and Peace with every post, and it usually praises a guy so you're protected in arguments then knocks em back down to show you weren't/aren't wrong - ever. Wanna Boldin vs. Marshall sig bet? Total fantasy points for the season? All receptions aren't created equal? I liked that one the best. While I have longtime respect for your Bronco insight, you wax poetic like none other trying to make a point stick, no matter what the evidence shows.

 

[SSOG]

Dude - just stop. I have to read War and Peace with every post, and it usually praises a guy so you're protected in arguments then knocks em back down to show you weren't/aren't wrong - ever. Wanna Boldin vs. Marshall sig bet? Total fantasy points for the season? All receptions aren't created equal? I liked that one the best. While I have longtime respect for your Bronco insight, you wax poetic like none other trying to make a point stick, no matter what the evidence shows.

Alright, I'll make it nice and succinct for you. Brandon Marshall = one of the top 5 young receivers in the NFL. Brandon Marshall != one of the top 5 receivers in the NFL. This is the same position that I have maintained in all of my posts on the subject. Is that clear and concise? Does that strip out any wiggle room so that I can't later come back and say that I meant something else entirely and that I'm never wrong?About Boldin: No, I don't want to sig bet. Boldin is a better NFL receiver, but Marshall plays with a better QB and has a better running game and worse complementary receivers, making him the better fantasy receiver. And no, not all receptions are created equal. Unless you want to tell me that a -1 yard reception on 3rd and 2 somehow adds value to the team. Derrick Mason actually caught one more ball than Marshall did last year- can you honestly read that and still maintain that all receptions are created equal? Marshall's stat line jumps off the page because of the 18 receptions- without that, his 166/1 would read like any other garden variety big game that we run into every week in the Not For Long. I'm just saying that I don't care how many receptions he had. Not all receptions are created equal. I'm more concerned with how many QUALITY receptions he had.

 

[bcr8f]

Wait til a pissed off Steve Smith comes back. I have both on one team.

 

[King of the Jungle]

Dude - just stop. I have to read War and Peace with every post, and it usually praises a guy so you're protected in arguments then knocks em back down to show you weren't/aren't wrong - ever. Wanna Boldin vs. Marshall sig bet? Total fantasy points for the season? All receptions aren't created equal? I liked that one the best. While I have longtime respect for your Bronco insight, you wax poetic like none other trying to make a point stick, no matter what the evidence shows.

Alright, I'll make it nice and succinct for you. Brandon Marshall = one of the top 5 young receivers in the NFL. Brandon Marshall != one of the top 5 receivers in the NFL. This is the same position that I have maintained in all of my posts on the subject. Is that clear and concise? Does that strip out any wiggle room so that I can't later come back and say that I meant something else entirely and that I'm never wrong?About Boldin: No, I don't want to sig bet. Boldin is a better NFL receiver, but Marshall plays with a better QB and has a better running game and worse complementary receivers, making him the better fantasy receiver. And no, not all receptions are created equal. Unless you want to tell me that a -1 yard reception on 3rd and 2 somehow adds value to the team. Derrick Mason actually caught one more ball than Marshall did last year- can you honestly read that and still maintain that all receptions are created equal? Marshall's stat line jumps off the page because of the 18 receptions- without that, his 166/1 would read like any other garden variety big game that we run into every week in the Not For Long. I'm just saying that I don't care how many receptions he had. Not all receptions are created equal. I'm more concerned with how many QUALITY receptions he had.

I am sorry that you do not own him in any of your leagues.

 

[Horses Mouth]

[bragging]bc i started this thread i'll take the liberty and privilege of announcing i traded for him by selling Forte on Saturday. [/bragging]

 

[Tackling Dummies]

Me loves me some Brandon!!

Don't we all good doctor. Cromartie, or whoever they had on him, was helpless. Can't play press or give him too much room and he'll kill you underneath and wave as he's by you. Marshall's statement that he wanted 140 receptions was brought up several times yesterday and it gives you pause before dismissing out of hand. As it stands, the Denver system looks like all the stars are lining up. Decent WR2, nice TE, possession WR, ability to run, strong armed and accurate QB, not a punishing top 3 ranked D and #15. I'm not sure he'll get 120ish receptions, but Denver games are a must to DVR.

 

[jtomm]

i have cutler, marshall, and scheffler (cerberus). needless to say that this week, i am very happy and the future looks bright.

 

[Sylira21]

Wait til a pissed off Steve Smith comes back. I have both on one team.

Yeah - this is starting to look like year of the Receiver, take 2. I bet Smith has a "few" catches next week. And maybe someone can tell Marshall that Boldin looked better than him...

 

[diver77]

He impressed me more with his toughness yesterday

He took a crap load of hard hits

 

[Sinn Fein]

Dude - just stop. I have to read War and Peace with every post, and it usually praises a guy so you're protected in arguments then knocks em back down to show you weren't/aren't wrong - ever. Wanna Boldin vs. Marshall sig bet? Total fantasy points for the season? All receptions aren't created equal? I liked that one the best. While I have longtime respect for your Bronco insight, you wax poetic like none other trying to make a point stick, no matter what the evidence shows.

Alright, I'll make it nice and succinct for you. Brandon Marshall = one of the top 5 young receivers in the NFL. Brandon Marshall != one of the top 5 receivers in the NFL. This is the same position that I have maintained in all of my posts on the subject. Is that clear and concise? Does that strip out any wiggle room so that I can't later come back and say that I meant something else entirely and that I'm never wrong?About Boldin: No, I don't want to sig bet. Boldin is a better NFL receiver, but Marshall plays with a better QB and has a better running game and worse complementary receivers, making him the better fantasy receiver. And no, not all receptions are created equal. Unless you want to tell me that a -1 yard reception on 3rd and 2 somehow adds value to the team. Derrick Mason actually caught one more ball than Marshall did last year- can you honestly read that and still maintain that all receptions are created equal? Marshall's stat line jumps off the page because of the 18 receptions- without that, his 166/1 would read like any other garden variety big game that we run into every week in the Not For Long. I'm just saying that I don't care how many receptions he had. Not all receptions are created equal. I'm more concerned with how many QUALITY receptions he had.

At some point you just have to run up the white flag. You fought the good fight. You don't think Marshall will be a top WR in the NFL - we all get that. We understood it last year when you railed about how Walker was the better WR, and when he came back, Marshall would settle back into a good #2 WR.Its time for everyone to move on - projecting Marshall for 87 catches on the year is just funny. If Marshall plays the full year, he will easily crack 100 receptions - and will get close to the 140 he wants if he stays healthy. He is very difficult to cover - because he can beat you deep - so the backs have to lay off him at the line of scrimmage, and when they do - he eats up 8 yards on a quick slant. I think it is pretty clear that he is Cutler's favorite target - so all your nonsense about targets regressing does not take into account the realities on the ground.

 

[Jayrod]

Cutler is one of the best QB's in the league and will finish top 5 this season (I think he's #1 so far). Those were two pretty good pass D's he absolutely torched in back to back games. He made them both look really bad. His O-line is solid, the running game will keep team honest and he has 3 legit pass catchers in Marshall, Royal and Sheffler. This passing games worst enemy will be the weather. As long as its not raining, snowing or really windy, Cutler will flirt with 300 yards and 2+ TD's every week.

Teams can't simply key on Marshall and he's the #1. I'm thinking over 110 catches is a likely number for him. TD's will be harder to come by on a weekly basis, but he'll finish as the #1 PPR WR. His yardage totals should be up around 1,200 as well.

I own Cutler in all of my leagues right now and he's exceeded all of my expectations already. I was thinking top 7-10 production, but to flirt with the #1 overall at his price is awesome.

 

[Irish]

Cutler is one of the best QB's in the league and will finish top 5 this season (I think he's #1 so far). Those were two pretty good pass D's he absolutely torched in back to back games. He made them both look really bad. His O-line is solid, the running game will keep team honest and he has 3 legit pass catchers in Marshall, Royal and Sheffler. This passing games worst enemy will be the weather. As long as its not raining, snowing or really windy, Cutler will flirt with 300 yards and 2+ TD's every week.Teams can't simply key on Marshall and he's the #1. I'm thinking over 110 catches is a likely number for him. TD's will be harder to come by on a weekly basis, but he'll finish as the #1 PPR WR. His yardage totals should be up around 1,200 as well.I own Cutler in all of my leagues right now and he's exceeded all of my expectations already. I was thinking top 7-10 production, but to flirt with the #1 overall at his price is awesome.

Well let's not go overboard, SD defense is crap and can't stop anyone and is vastly overated.

 

[Banger]

Dude - just stop. I have to read War and Peace with every post, and it usually praises a guy so you're protected in arguments then knocks em back down to show you weren't/aren't wrong - ever. Wanna Boldin vs. Marshall sig bet? Total fantasy points for the season? All receptions aren't created equal? I liked that one the best. While I have longtime respect for your Bronco insight, you wax poetic like none other trying to make a point stick, no matter what the evidence shows.

Alright, I'll make it nice and succinct for you. Brandon Marshall = one of the top 5 young receivers in the NFL. Brandon Marshall != one of the top 5 receivers in the NFL. This is the same position that I have maintained in all of my posts on the subject. Is that clear and concise? Does that strip out any wiggle room so that I can't later come back and say that I meant something else entirely and that I'm never wrong?About Boldin: No, I don't want to sig bet. Boldin is a better NFL receiver, but Marshall plays with a better QB and has a better running game and worse complementary receivers, making him the better fantasy receiver. And no, not all receptions are created equal. Unless you want to tell me that a -1 yard reception on 3rd and 2 somehow adds value to the team. Derrick Mason actually caught one more ball than Marshall did last year- can you honestly read that and still maintain that all receptions are created equal? Marshall's stat line jumps off the page because of the 18 receptions- without that, his 166/1 would read like any other garden variety big game that we run into every week in the Not For Long. I'm just saying that I don't care how many receptions he had. Not all receptions are created equal. I'm more concerned with how many QUALITY receptions he had.

so catches per target is now replaced by Quality catches? How do we define quality catches and where can we find this info? Seems as if Brandon's bar is constantly being raised and when he reaches, exceeds one bar a new one is put in place. Even when he sets a Denver Bronco record it's treated as another day at the office.I'm not bashing you as I respect your Bronco info and insight but I feel you have been and continue to be off based w/respect to Marshall.

 

[az_prof]

In PPR leagues Marshall is #1--I wouldn't trade him for anyone. My only concern about him in dynasty leagues is his penchant for trouble, but somehow I think he has finally learned or I don't think the league would have lowered his suspension to one game.

As far as the fact that many of his receptions were short yesterday, we need to recall that he didn't pick his routes or plan the offense. He was running the routes and plays he is told to run. What is noteworthy is the very high completion percentage. You also have to acknowledge that he did it against a pretty good defensive secondary.

Marshall looks very focussed and disciplined. Royal only helps him. No, he won't get 20 TDs, but if he gets one a game that comes out to 15, which isn't bad.

 

[thehornet]

Dude - just stop. I have to read War and Peace with every post, and it usually praises a guy so you're protected in arguments then knocks em back down to show you weren't/aren't wrong - ever. Wanna Boldin vs. Marshall sig bet? Total fantasy points for the season? All receptions aren't created equal? I liked that one the best. While I have longtime respect for your Bronco insight, you wax poetic like none other trying to make a point stick, no matter what the evidence shows.

Alright, I'll make it nice and succinct for you. Brandon Marshall = one of the top 5 young receivers in the NFL. Brandon Marshall != one of the top 5 receivers in the NFL. This is the same position that I have maintained in all of my posts on the subject. Is that clear and concise? Does that strip out any wiggle room so that I can't later come back and say that I meant something else entirely and that I'm never wrong?About Boldin: No, I don't want to sig bet. Boldin is a better NFL receiver, but Marshall plays with a better QB and has a better running game and worse complementary receivers, making him the better fantasy receiver. And no, not all receptions are created equal. Unless you want to tell me that a -1 yard reception on 3rd and 2 somehow adds value to the team. Derrick Mason actually caught one more ball than Marshall did last year- can you honestly read that and still maintain that all receptions are created equal? Marshall's stat line jumps off the page because of the 18 receptions- without that, his 166/1 would read like any other garden variety big game that we run into every week in the Not For Long. I'm just saying that I don't care how many receptions he had. Not all receptions are created equal. I'm more concerned with how many QUALITY receptions he had.

Honest to god - What are you talking about? The guy just had the best receiving game in Broncos History and you are talking about quality receptions and Derrick Mason. Move on. You used to say you could name 20 receivers better than Marshall. I see you now have him as a Top 5. Funny how things changed. i am finding it hard to take you seriously lately.

 

[kerpow]

Just been researching this a little more today. Did you know that Marshall's performance of 18 receptions yesterday is the 2nd highest OF ALL TIME? Only TO's record of 20 grabs against Chicago in 2000 betters it.

But wait there's more....Marshall did this on just 20 targets. I doubt there's any game log of TO's game 8 years ago, but I would bet my house on TO getting more targets.

http://www.nfl.com/history/randf/records/indiv/receiving

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/.../0_byRECPT.html

 

[WiDDoW_MaKeR]

I would bet against it. He got a ton of targets last year... but I think that Cutler will spread it around better this year.

All the great QBs spread it around but when they need a quick 6 or a clutch catch they go to their main guy. (i.e. Montana/Rice, Marino/Duper, Manning/Harrison). Can he finish #1WR? Who knows. If he finishes in the top 5 or even top 10, you won't hear me complaining.disclaimer - please don't take this out of context. I'm not comparing Culter/Marshall to any of the other duos, just to make a point.edit - spelling

I wouldn't bet against it anymore.

 

[Billy Ball Thorton]

Good arguments on both sides. It shows the highly volatile nature of predicting TDs. IMO, he could convert 5 of 24 again, or he could convert 12. You could argue he's not yet elite in that category, but at the same time could say that Cutler is now better. It goes on and on, which, getting back to my original point, makes TDs very hard to predict.

no, it's notSSOG is just a "biased" Javon Walker fan

go to read some posts about Walker (the superstud) Marshall (the good player) from last season to check his "credibility", lol

I'm a Javon Walker fan? Ask anyone with a pulse- I'm a Denver Broncos fan, period. The Raiders are the hated enemy. Why would I be a fan of a Raiders WR, especially one who was petulant and deemed himself too good for my beloved Broncos, over a Broncos WR, especially one who I have repeatedly (repeatedly REPEATEDLY) said looks like he's a future uberstud and who will probably be a huge lynchpin in the offense for many years to come? How does that make the slightest bit of sense? Yeah, I've totally abandoned all loyalty for my team because I was just so touched by the caring and nurturing attitude that Javon Walker demonstrated while in Denver. His Cristal-spraying ways really illuminated what an incredible humanitarian and asset to society as a whole he really is. I knew somebody would bump this after Marshall's game today. It was an impressive game, absolutely. His 85% catch% was remarkable, he showed very good concentration in traffic and during contact (especially on that facemask penalty). Great, great game. I'm going to stop short of calling it an all-time great game, though. The reception total is very gaudy, but not all receptions are created equal (I'm referring specifically to the junk around the LoS). He was much improved in terms of concentration and consistency, which were two of my biggest criticisms of him last year. Good to see a healthy progression as a wide receiver.

I still have to point out that I think this just reinforces why Marshall won't finish the year as the #1 WR. Cutler threw four passing TDs. All four came in the red zone. Two went to Scheffler, one went to Royal, one went to Marshall. Despite everyone repeatedly claiming that Marshall simply must be Cutler's go-to guy in the red zone, Cutler has repeatedly demonstrated that Marshall simply isn't. And don't look now, but with 3 goal-line TDs in 2 games, Michael Pittman is fast demonstrating that Denver has a goal-line RB again. I still think Marshall will be hard-pressed to post the kind of TD numbers necessary to lay claim to the #1 spot. Top 5? Sure, easily within Marshall's grasp. #1 overall? Nope, not happening.

By the way, you want to talk about amazing games, check out the player Marshall most closely resembles, IMO- Mr. Anquan Boldin. Marshall has yet to demonstrate he's even better than Boldin, let alone one of the best in the league (no slight intended towards Marshall- Boldin is a beast with the highest receiving yards per game in NFL history).

You are making yourself look silly.... Please stop

 

[Jayrod]

Cutler is one of the best QB's in the league and will finish top 5 this season (I think he's #1 so far). Those were two pretty good pass D's he absolutely torched in back to back games. He made them both look really bad. His O-line is solid, the running game will keep team honest and he has 3 legit pass catchers in Marshall, Royal and Sheffler. This passing games worst enemy will be the weather. As long as its not raining, snowing or really windy, Cutler will flirt with 300 yards and 2+ TD's every week.Teams can't simply key on Marshall and he's the #1. I'm thinking over 110 catches is a likely number for him. TD's will be harder to come by on a weekly basis, but he'll finish as the #1 PPR WR. His yardage totals should be up around 1,200 as well.I own Cutler in all of my leagues right now and he's exceeded all of my expectations already. I was thinking top 7-10 production, but to flirt with the #1 overall at his price is awesome.

Well let's not go overboard, SD defense is crap and can't stop anyone and is vastly overated.

OK, yeah, that defense suxorzzzz....

 

[Deuce'sWild]

He caught 18 of 20 targets? Dude is a BEAST. 20 targets...and yet he's not Cutler's preferred target? Get a clue SSOG.

 

[BassNBrew]

Funny that you guys are beating up on SSOG when he makes some goods points. He's stated is that Marshall is a top 5 WR. Any arguments there? He's stated Marshall won't be the top ff WR and gives reason why.

1 WR Boldin, Anquan ARI 1 0 0 0 6 140 3 0 32.0

2 WR Moss, Santana WAS 1 1 27 0 7 164 1 0 25.1

3 WR Johnson, Calvin DET 1 0 0 0 6 129 2 0 24.9

4 WR Marshall, Brandon DEN 1 0 0 0 18 166 1 0 22.6

5 WR Chambers, Chris SD 1 0 0 0 4 83 2 0 20.3

6 WR Jennings, Greg GB 1 0 0 0 6 167 0 0 16.7

Even with the second most receptions all time in a game, he finished #4 for the week. Maybe some of you should work on your reading comprehension instead of bashing someone who's bringing some insight to the thread that doesn't jive with the herd.

 

[thehornet]

Funny that you guys are beating up on SSOG when he makes some goods points. He's stated is that Marshall is a top 5 WR. Any arguments there? He's stated Marshall won't be the top ff WR and gives reason why. 1 WR Boldin, Anquan ARI 1 0 0 0 6 140 3 0 32.0 2 WR Moss, Santana WAS 1 1 27 0 7 164 1 0 25.1 3 WR Johnson, Calvin DET 1 0 0 0 6 129 2 0 24.9 4 WR Marshall, Brandon DEN 1 0 0 0 18 166 1 0 22.6 5 WR Chambers, Chris SD 1 0 0 0 4 83 2 0 20.3 6 WR Jennings, Greg GB 1 0 0 0 6 167 0 0 16.7Even with the second most receptions all time in a game, he finished #4 for the week. Maybe some of you should work on your reading comprehension instead of bashing someone who's bringing some insight to the thread that doesn't jive with the herd.

only recently has he changed his viewpoint. Before the season he named 15 or 20 WR that he thought were better.edit to add: I play PPR and Marshall outscored every single one of those guys this week. Thanks.

 

[BassNBrew]

Funny that you guys are beating up on SSOG when he makes some goods points. He's stated is that Marshall is a top 5 WR. Any arguments there? He's stated Marshall won't be the top ff WR and gives reason why. 1 WR Boldin, Anquan ARI 1 0 0 0 6 140 3 0 32.0 2 WR Moss, Santana WAS 1 1 27 0 7 164 1 0 25.1 3 WR Johnson, Calvin DET 1 0 0 0 6 129 2 0 24.9 4 WR Marshall, Brandon DEN 1 0 0 0 18 166 1 0 22.6 5 WR Chambers, Chris SD 1 0 0 0 4 83 2 0 20.3 6 WR Jennings, Greg GB 1 0 0 0 6 167 0 0 16.7Even with the second most receptions all time in a game, he finished #4 for the week. Maybe some of you should work on your reading comprehension instead of bashing someone who's bringing some insight to the thread that doesn't jive with the herd.

only recently has he changed his viewpoint. Before the season he named 15 or 20 WR that he thought were better.edit to add: I play PPR and Marshall outscored every single one of those guys this week. Thanks.

Not sure when he changed his opinion, but it was before the game yesterday. Nothing wrong with someone changing a stance when they're wrong. Doesn't invalidate what he's said since.Glad that you play ppr, I do too. That said, it's not the defualt scoring around these parts. I also play in a TD league and J Gilmore and J Nelson = Marshall for what it's worth.