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Was just coming here to post the same thing. I think Warner seals his spot in the HOF if he tops 5000 yards.Average passing yards allowed by Brees' remaining opponents: 220.2 per game
What if he does well?I don't think Brees gets enough credit around here so...just curious what, if any, would be the impact of him doing well playing against those DBs
Marino's 1984 performance was unlike any seen in NFL history as he guided the Dolphins to a 14-2 record and a division crown. He became the first player ever to pass for 5,000 yards in a single season finishing with a remarkable 5,084 yards. His 48 touchdown passes obliterated the previous record, 36 touchdowns passes held by Y.A. Tittle and George Blanda. By season's end, he had set six league records and was named the NFL's Most Valuable Player.
Why would this happen? When you have Fitz and Boldin the game plan should revolve around getting them the ball first, last and always.
You dont think that the Cards will start using a better running game when they have leads?? Edge was horrible this year so now they have a better back in Hightower that can give them some rushing hards.
On the other hand, Marino got to play against defenses that were significantly depleted thanks to the emergence of the USFL.
Yes it is more of a passing league now. But the Dolphins had two things that made them pass a lot back then.1. They had no running game2. Defense was not very good.
Marino was aided by the creation of the USFL that depleted defensive secondaries. Even Neil Lomax threw for 4600+ yards that year (his career best by 1300 yards). Phil Simms had over 4000 yards, and other than the 1985 season (3800) never had 3500 yards in any other season.
As for #1, they had a RBBC with 3 guys in the 500-600 yard range. They had nearly 2,000 rushing yards that season as a team.
Where's your evidence to support any of this? Hightower is averaging 3.1 yards per carry, which is actually worse than Edge's YPC (3.5). Hightower is the lowest-rated starting RB in the entire NFL, and Arizona has the 4th-worst running game in the entire NFL.So, to answer your question: no, I don't think the Cards will start using a "better running game" when they have leads. Because they don't have a better running game. Their running game stinks.
I think everyone thinks because Hightower had the one good game that he is better than Edge. Outside of that game, though, he really hasn't looked very good. He has decent power but he really doesn't have the quickness, agility, or top end speed to make him anything special. At this point, he might be an upgrade over Edge but not by a lot and well, that's not saying a ton to begin with.As for running when they get the lead, I agree it probably won't happen. Nor should it happen. They could have ended the SF game with a first down on their last drive. On the first play Warner through a pass to Fitz for like seven yards. Then, two runs, no gain, they punt, and SF has a chance... And we all saw how close they came. Bottom line, lead or no lead, Arizona is better off throwing the ball 75% of the time and running the other 25% of the time just to keep defenses somewhat honest.
There might be something to that. I just checked the 1984 Dolphins schedule and their last "cold weather game" was November 11th at Philly. Then they were @ san diego, home for two games, @ indianapolis in a dome, and then ended the season at home. That was a pretty favorable passing schedule, weather-wise.jurb26 said:
There were no RBBCs back then. None of those 3 backs were the answer for the Dolphins and they had the ball a ton that year because of a terrible D. They did try to run the ball but it was always late in the game or just for show. Marino himself has stated he wished that he would have had a running game or defense when he played.
Not much of an NFL historian, eh?
Tony Nathan was the #1 back on the team he was more of a WR out of the backfield than a RB. Woody Bennet got the ball late in the game to pound the tough yards.Defense gave up about 100 yds less than the Dolphins #1 offense, this shows they were not a very good D and the offense had to win the games. Defense gave up 100 more 1st downs than the offense gained.
O RLY?Defensive ranks:
That's fair - I was like one in 1984, so I wasn't aware of this fact.
Although, there have been so many rule changes since then that have made it increasingly difficult to play defense (particularly for DB's). These rule changes, I would think, more than negate whatever talent deficiencies the league experienced back then.
Building a straw man:Step 1: label the 1984 Miami defense as "terrible"
Yes in 1984 they were a much more complete football team. There's a stereotype that the Marino Dolphins couldn't run the football, and in fact they did struggle for several seasons. But 1984 wasn't one of them. The years of struggle were still in the future for them.
Looking at it 1984 for was the best year for the Dolphins and there team. I was wrong on my points. I was under the impression that Miami played like they did the rest of the time Marino was there.
WOW!
:(
I can't believe the residual man love for Hightower. Have you people watched any football the last 3 weeks?The first time he played Tampa he put up pretty good numbers. There were a few huge plays that that Henderson made that really got his stats up. I don't think he has as good of a game this time on the road.
Here's the thing about the USFL...there were NFL caliber players that played in the USFL and the USFL went after some high profile players to bolster the league's credibility. But until you actually breakdown the actual DB's Marino faced in '84 compared to the DB's he faced in the post-USFL years, this "dilluted talent pool" argument doesn't carry a lot of weight with me.The NFL runs 32 clubs now (talent dillution) with a very pro-offense slant to the rules. So if we're going to use generalizations about era to discount individual achievements, Brees, Warner, Brady and the rest should get marked down for that as well.Some other important details to remember...Marino did this in his second year in the league, his first full season as a starter at the tender age of 23. IIRC, he wasn't a wonderlic wonderboy either, I think he was a guy who just naturally understood how to play the position.That's fair - I was like one in 1984, so I wasn't aware of this fact.
Warner now on pace for 4947 yards.Chase Stuart said:
Oh really? Which defensive players that went to the USFL were you thinking of? Ray Bentley? Sam Mills?USFL players who played in the NFL
Agreed.I've never enjoyed football more than watching the '84 Dolphins.Here's the thing about the USFL...there were NFL caliber players that played in the USFL and the USFL went after some high profile players to bolster the league's credibility. But until you actually breakdown the actual DB's Marino faced in '84 compared to the DB's he faced in the post-USFL years, this "dilluted talent pool" argument doesn't carry a lot of weight with me.The NFL runs 32 clubs now (talent dillution) with a very pro-offense slant to the rules. So if we're going to use generalizations about era to discount individual achievements, Brees, Warner, Brady and the rest should get marked down for that as well.Some other important details to remember...Marino did this in his second year in the league, his first full season as a starter at the tender age of 23. IIRC, he wasn't a wonderlic wonderboy either, I think he was a guy who just naturally understood how to play the position.That's fair - I was like one in 1984, so I wasn't aware of this fact.Although, there have been so many rule changes since then that have made it increasingly difficult to play defense (particularly for DB's). These rule changes, I would think, more than negate whatever talent deficiencies the league experienced back then.
there's no substitute for experience. smaller # of teams probably means guys like Colston, TJ, and Chrebet wouldn't be playing or well at least 1 of them. football is the most popular sport in america and the world. In 1984, it was baseball but basketball was really really coming on with Bird and Magic battling then best all time players like Akeem, David Robinson, Jordan, Ewing, Clyde....a whole lot enterred the NBA in a matter of 3-4 years. I would say a glory time for NBA recruiting. That's not the case now, as is our culture most kids want to play the most popular sport when they grow up. Your whole argument pertains to the same quality and quantity of talent being available in 84 and 08. It's not. There has never been a 350 pound 6-6 guy like Haynesworth that can catch Reggie Wayne from behind. Moss(and several other big fast quality WRs) would have dominated in earlier eras where there were next to no CBs over 6 foot. On and on.The game evolves, our culture evolves, you can't pretend it's the same.BTW There's no doubt in my mind Marino would have been good in any era but, he'd have had to learn how to play against 2000's defenses and DBs just like against 1980's defenses and DBs.Here's the thing about the USFL...there were NFL caliber players that played in the USFL and the USFL went after some high profile players to bolster the league's credibility. But until you actually breakdown the actual DB's Marino faced in '84 compared to the DB's he faced in the post-USFL years, this "dilluted talent pool" argument doesn't carry a lot of weight with me.The NFL runs 32 clubs now (talent dillution) with a very pro-offense slant to the rules. So if we're going to use generalizations about era to discount individual achievements, Brees, Warner, Brady and the rest should get marked down for that as well.Some other important details to remember...Marino did this in his second year in the league, his first full season as a starter at the tender age of 23. IIRC, he wasn't a wonderlic wonderboy either, I think he was a guy who just naturally understood how to play the position.That's fair - I was like one in 1984, so I wasn't aware of this fact.Although, there have been so many rule changes since then that have made it increasingly difficult to play defense (particularly for DB's). These rule changes, I would think, more than negate whatever talent deficiencies the league experienced back then.
I don't care how much quicker today's defenses are, they would absolutely not be faster than his quick release. That is what made Marino dangerous. The ball came out of the pocket so fast. Today's defensive backs also have more restrictions than back in 1984. Which means that Duper and Clayton would have a lot more freedom to get open, unlike '84. Quick release + Fast-and-Open Receivers = Success.there's no substitute for experience. smaller # of teams probably means guys like Colston, TJ, and Chrebet wouldn't be playing or well at least 1 of them. football is the most popular sport in america and the world. In 1984, it was baseball but basketball was really really coming on with Bird and Magic battling then best all time players like Akeem, David Robinson, Jordan, Ewing, Clyde....a whole lot enterred the NBA in a matter of 3-4 years. I would say a glory time for NBA recruiting. That's not the case now, as is our culture most kids want to play the most popular sport when they grow up. Your whole argument pertains to the same quality and quantity of talent being available in 84 and 08. It's not. There has never been a 350 pound 6-6 guy like Haynesworth that can catch Reggie Wayne from behind. Moss(and several other big fast quality WRs) would have dominated in earlier eras where there were next to no CBs over 6 foot. On and on.The game evolves, our culture evolves, you can't pretend it's the same.BTW There's no doubt in my mind Marino would have been good in any era but, he'd have had to learn how to play against 2000's defenses and DBs just like against 1980's defenses and DBs.Here's the thing about the USFL...there were NFL caliber players that played in the USFL and the USFL went after some high profile players to bolster the league's credibility. But until you actually breakdown the actual DB's Marino faced in '84 compared to the DB's he faced in the post-USFL years, this "dilluted talent pool" argument doesn't carry a lot of weight with me.The NFL runs 32 clubs now (talent dillution) with a very pro-offense slant to the rules. So if we're going to use generalizations about era to discount individual achievements, Brees, Warner, Brady and the rest should get marked down for that as well.Some other important details to remember...Marino did this in his second year in the league, his first full season as a starter at the tender age of 23. IIRC, he wasn't a wonderlic wonderboy either, I think he was a guy who just naturally understood how to play the position.That's fair - I was like one in 1984, so I wasn't aware of this fact.Although, there have been so many rule changes since then that have made it increasingly difficult to play defense (particularly for DB's). These rule changes, I would think, more than negate whatever talent deficiencies the league experienced back then.
So what is the thought on this angle? Saints could easily run it on Detroit, get up big and just play conservative, or they could unleash Brees. It would seem without a playoff shot, and still being able to win the game throwing- that Payton and Brees would want to be part of history...
Racking up passing stats in meaningless games against 0-14 teams doesn't exactly count as "being part of history." I'd be disappointed if Marino's record falls to that kind of crap.
